Problem after problem

I just can't do it! Can't get a 4-2-1-3 deep to work. Always do brillinat pre-season and then collapse.

My most recent effort - (Ipswich) - one defender linked with move to Roma, one with Sunderland, gk linked to Man City - yet we leak goals and a very bizarre rate - had 20 shots to opposition 2 and drew 2-2 - always dominating, rarely winning. OVer aggeregate of 11 games, had nearly 200 shots to oppositions 44 and one only 1? Can someone offer some guidance before I pack FM in - I'm beginning to think its not for me anymore!

1. If you use right winger (inside forward attack), must I use wing back for RB position - RB (playing right back attack) is good player but performs very poorly and when I speak to him calmly, he says it isn't his fault - that he's getting no support? Goalkeeper always gets 6.3, 6.4 or worse - Jung Sung Ryong - linked with Man City in game, but never does well. Central defenders - where do I start? - have tried a multitude of combinations - always start brilliant and then utter collapse - despite one of them being linked with Roma. examples of combinations - Parkhurst and Bostwick; Novaretti and Bottinelli; Craddock and Stefan Bell and a raft of others.

2. If a player seems to switch off during a team talk, is that a reflection on his motivation, what he thinks of you?

3. If playing in the Championship, and your striker is a "decent player for most premiership teams", and is insanely inconsistent despite having a good determination, is that tactics?

4. How is it possible to annihilate higher rated teams pre-season, leaking 1 goal in 5 and scoring 16, to scoring 9 and leaking 17 against far lesser opposition in the first 5 league games?

I've read the guides, tactics forums etc but one wizard always seems to contradict the next. I hope the game is not reduced to farce, but I'm geniunely beginning to wonder whether, having read FM guide and the tactics forums whether the next installment should be called "Teamtalk 2012", "Morale 2012" or "Slider Bar 2013".

Apologies if my frustration is coming through but it is really hacking off when you spend time reading forums, apply the logic, play like Barca pre-season and Muckers Utd when season kicks off - on a variety of occasions, with different formations and different players.

Thanks in advance.

I just can't do it! Can't get a 4-2-1-3 deep to work. Always do brillinat pre-season and then collapse.

My most recent effort - (Ipswich) - one defender linked with move to Roma, one with Sunderland, gk linked to Man City - yet we leak goals and a very bizarre rate - had 20 shots to opposition 2 and drew 2-2 - always dominating, rarely winning. OVer aggeregate of 11 games, had nearly 200 shots to oppositions 44 and one only 1? Can someone offer some guidance before I pack FM in - I'm beginning to think its not for me anymore!

1. If you use right winger (inside forward attack), must I use wing back for RB position - RB (playing right back attack) is good player but performs very poorly and when I speak to him calmly, he says it isn't his fault - that he's getting no support? Goalkeeper always gets 6.3, 6.4 or worse - Jung Sung Ryong - linked with Man City in game, but never does well. Central defenders - where do I start? - have tried a multitude of combinations - always start brilliant and then utter collapse - despite one of them being linked with Roma. examples of combinations - Parkhurst and Bostwick; Novaretti and Bottinelli; Craddock and Stefan Bell and a raft of others.

Sounds like you have a typical very attacking direct tactic that we see often on the forum. When faced with a defensive team that plays on the counter attack your tactic performs poorly (Note having lots of shots on target doesn't mean your tactic is good or working well). The opposition concentrate on keeping men behind the ball, making your life difficult and then creating good quality chances on the counter attack.

2. If a player seems to switch off during a team talk, is that a reflection on his motivation, what he thinks of you?

Could be your rep, could be you use the same TT all the time, could be his personality is a poor one or even something else.

3. If playing in the Championship, and your striker is a "decent player for most premiership teams", and is insanely inconsistent despite having a good determination, is that tactics?

Possibly but also "Consistency" is a hidden attribute and determines how often the player plays to the best of his attributes. Low levels of consistency will see the player regularly underperform compared to his attributes.

4. How is it possible to annihilate higher rated teams pre-season, leaking 1 goal in 5 and scoring 16, to scoring 9 and leaking 17 against far lesser opposition in the first 5 league games?

This is back to your tactics - When playing higher rated teams they attack more leaving space at the back as they look to win the game, you exploit this space with your direct, high paced, very attacking tactic. Lesser opposition defend which leaves you no space to exploit so you keep giving the ball to the opposition to counter.

I've read the guides, tactics forums etc but one wizard always seems to contradict the next. I hope the game is not reduced to farce, but I'm geniunely beginning to wonder whether, having read FM guide and the tactics forums whether the next installment should be called "Teamtalk 2012", "Morale 2012" or "Slider Bar 2013".

Apologies if my frustration is coming through but it is really hacking off when you spend time reading forums, apply the logic, play like Barca pre-season and Muckers Utd when season kicks off - on a variety of occasions, with different formations and different players.

Thanks in advance.

You need to learn more and improve your tactics.

If your going to insist on playing such a direct attacking formation, you must make sure you are secure at the back. I find with your formation the key to a solid defence is not the defenders, but playing the left sided central midfield player in a defensive role and adjusting their personal tactics to be defensive (about 1/4 up on the slider) playing a short simple passing game.

Also if your having lots and lots of shots but NO clear cut chances then your actually not playing that well at all, the majority of goals still come from clear cut chances, especially outside the prem. If you find your getting lots of shots without clear cut chances set your team width to maximum and give your attacking midfielders lots of creative freedom (depending if you have the players to do this), get your FB's on support duty and watch the goals fly in.

Thanks for the tips. I was playing a fluid control system more often than not. I was getting stung by far poorer teams. Surely there is no point in me playing a counter/direct tactic given I would be expected to win most home games and do well in the league - I have used to "purchase over 4 years" payment method so have a very strong squad in comparison to others.

Without meaning to sound stubborn, I have read a number of tactic discussion and guides and one seems to contradict to other, hence my furstration. I do think I have a pretty good understanding of football - in real life at least!

Thanks anyway.

You shouldn't use counter tactics against poor teams, I don't think anyone has suggested that. But you do need to find ways of unlocking the defence of teams that park the bus rather than going too attacking and leaving yourself exposed to a counter. There are various ways and usually depend on the opposition, such as playing wider or dropping deeper to allow your midfield more space, work ball into box to discourage long shots, etc. I'd recommend reading Cleon's thread about watching the full match and using shouts as you go along.

The key to tactics is being able to adapt to any given situation.

Also would be helpful if you explained your formation a little more, I'm not sure what you mean by a 4-2-1-3 deep. Is it 2 DMs and 3 strikers?

More shots don't mean that you are dominating. It means you are wasting shots that get blocked, goes outside of the goal, or are just poorly placed so that they are easy meat for the oppostion goalie. Try taking away long shots for your players, or use the "work ball into box" shout. Or have at least 3 players with forwrd runs on max (left winger, right winger, central attacking midfielder) and use the "play through defence" shout.

Have any player with high stats in finishing and composure train the "places shots" ppm.

I'm aiming for a 4-2-3-1 deep, GK (defend), RB (have tried attack and support), CD Cover and CD stopper, LB (support), DMR - defensive mid support, other DM - deep lying playmaker defend, AMR - inside forward support or attack, AMC - attack, AML - advanced playmaker support, ST - TQ or Poacher, atack.

Have tried control with shorter passing, counter with direct passing, balanced with balanced - always dominate friendlies, whether stronger or weaker opposition, become inconsistent and then degenerate to utterly abysmal. Nothin untoward in team talks or player interaction.

Example - here's a starting 11 I recently flopped with (may not be same roles as set out above) - Jung Sung Ryong, Bernd Nehrig, Novaretti, Bostwick, Fausto Pinto (the defenders) Custodio and Sable as DMs, Nauzet Aleman as RW, Geivanni as AMC, Kirm as AML, Rhodes as up front. Won 1 out of 11 I think after excellent pre season.

You shouldn't use counter tactics against poor teams, I don't think anyone has suggested that. But you do need to find ways of unlocking the defence of teams that park the bus rather than going too attacking and leaving yourself exposed to a counter. There are various ways and usually depend on the opposition, such as playing wider or dropping deeper to allow your midfield more space, work ball into box to discourage long shots, etc. I'd recommend reading Cleon's thread about watching the full match and using shouts as you go along.

The key to tactics is being able to adapt to any given situation.

Also would be helpful if you explained your formation a little more, I'm not sure what you mean by a 4-2-1-3 deep. Is it 2 DMs and 3 strikers?

OK, but tactic is control and fluid. Isn't that meant to probe rather than shoot aimlessly?

More shots don't mean that you are dominating. It means you are wasting shots that get blocked, goes outside of the goal, or are just poorly placed so that they are easy meat for the oppostion goalie. Try taking away long shots for your players, or use the "work ball into box" shout. Or have at least 3 players with forwrd runs on max (left winger, right winger, central attacking midfielder) and use the "play through defence" shout.

Have any player with high stats in finishing and composure train the "places shots" ppm.

OK, but tactic is control and fluid. Isn't that meant to probe rather than shoot aimlessly?

Fluid describes how much the players contribute to different phases of play, the more fluid the tactic the more players will move from position to get involved in attacks.

Control is your strategy, the higher up you go the more you encourage your players to pass forwards, play quicker and take shots earlier. Dropping it to standard or counter will see more of the probing you are looking for against defensive teams especially if you increase the width and encourage more through balls.

Looking at your tactic in your previous post and I can see several issues:

A) Most of your advanced players are running away from the ball leaving a large gap between them and the DMCs.

B) When your attackers do get the ball they are rushing everything.

C) Lack of passing options when you are in the final third.

Improvements I would make:

A) Switch your DMCs, I would put the playmaker on support to give him more options leaving the other as an anchor man/DM on defend to break up play.

B) Your width comes from your fullbacks so you want them getting forward a lot - put them on attack.

C) Your two wide men (AMR/AML) you want on support so they make themselves available for passes.

D) I always think lone forwards should be on support but if both your wide men are supporting then you need someone on the last man, attacking could work here.

E) Your AMC - I would want to play around with this player, leaving him at AMC means a big gap between DM & AM so I would be tempted to drop him to a MC position with attacking/support orders. I would also look to see if the opposition formation has an DMC.

Now in theory when you get possession it goes to your DMCs initially who have options - Two fullbacks bombing down the wings, two advanced wide men dropping off to get possession, a MC pushing forward into the hole and a ST looking for a long ball.

Aside from your own formation though you need to look at the opposition formation each match and tweak your tactics to take advantage of gaps/shore up your own.

Fluid describes how much the players contribute to different phases of play, the more fluid the tactic the more players will move from position to get involved in attacks.

Control is your strategy, the higher up you go the more you encourage your players to pass forwards, play quicker and take shots earlier. Dropping it to standard or counter will see more of the probing you are looking for against defensive teams especially if you increase the width and encourage more through balls.

Looking at your tactic in your previous post and I can see several issues:

A) Most of your advanced players are running away from the ball leaving a large gap between them and the DMCs.

B) When your attackers do get the ball they are rushing everything.

C) Lack of passing options when you are in the final third.

Improvements I would make:

A) Switch your DMCs, I would put the playmaker on support to give him more options leaving the other as an anchor man/DM on defend to break up play.

B) Your width comes from your fullbacks so you want them getting forward a lot - put them on attack.

C) Your two wide men (AMR/AML) you want on support so they make themselves available for passes.

D) I always think lone forwards should be on support but if both your wide men are supporting then you need someone on the last man, attacking could work here.

E) Your AMC - I would want to play around with this player, leaving him at AMC means a big gap between DM & AM so I would be tempted to drop him to a MC position with attacking/support orders. I would also look to see if the opposition formation has an DMC.

Now in theory when you get possession it goes to your DMCs initially who have options - Two fullbacks bombing down the wings, two advanced wide men dropping off to get possession, a MC pushing forward into the hole and a ST looking for a long ball.

Aside from your own formation though you need to look at the opposition formation each match and tweak your tactics to take advantage of gaps/shore up your own.

OK. I'm very grateful for your advice. I'm wondering about the following then, just before I give it a final fling!

1. Is it contradictory to have play "rigid" and ask your full backs to attack?

2. Is it possible to be successful with a Trequartista as a lone striker?

3. If central defenders are performing poorly despite having the ability to peform much better, even when set to the default settings; is there something I should be immediately worried about tactically - eg I had Novaretti and Bottinelli as a Central Defender Defend and Central Defender Stopper partnership in a 4-2-3-1 DEEP formation and both were dire - yet Sunderland were linked with Novaretti and Roma with Bottinelli? I have found that I'm very solid defensively preseason, against weaker and stronger opposition, and maybe even for the first few games of the season, but then the floodgates open and when they do, morale goes bust and the whole thing degenerates into farce. EG - won 5 preseason games and first 3 league games, up 1-0 at half time away to Forest, had the better of the second half but still lost 4-1 and then could't buy a win, despite having more possession and 3-4 times as many clear cut chances in a number of the following games.

Thanks again and sorry to sound so helpless!

Kenco, by 4-2-3-1 Deep I mean GK, RB, 2 x CD, LB, then 2 DMC, AMR, AMC. AML, STC. Example below : -

GK, Defend

RB, (Attack) CD (Cover) CD (Stopper) LB (Support)

DM (DLP Defend) DM (DM Support)

AMR (Inside F attack) AMC (AMC attack) AML (Advan Play, Support)

TQ (attack)

Fluid, control, shorter passing press more. Have varied to try balanced, balanced, normal everything and have not yet found a successful combination. Maybe Rhodes is the problem - I've tried him as the TQ and he's hit and miss - yet rated as a leading championship striker? But problems are generally with ST, AMC and CDs Is the right back attack exposing the CD Cover? I just can't figure it out.

Thanks for your reply though.

You shouldn't use counter tactics against poor teams, I don't think anyone has suggested that. But you do need to find ways of unlocking the defence of teams that park the bus rather than going too attacking and leaving yourself exposed to a counter. There are various ways and usually depend on the opposition, such as playing wider or dropping deeper to allow your midfield more space, work ball into box to discourage long shots, etc. I'd recommend reading Cleon's thread about watching the full match and using shouts as you go along.

The key to tactics is being able to adapt to any given situation.

Also would be helpful if you explained your formation a little more, I'm not sure what you mean by a 4-2-1-3 deep. Is it 2 DMs and 3 strikers?

OK. I'm very grateful for your advice. I'm wondering about the following then, just before I give it a final fling!

1. Is it contradictory to have play "rigid" and ask your full backs to attack?

2. Is it possible to be successful with a Trequartista as a lone striker?

3. If central defenders are performing poorly despite having the ability to peform much better, even when set to the default settings; is there something I should be immediately worried about tactically - eg I had Novaretti and Bottinelli as a Central Defender Defend and Central Defender Stopper partnership in a 4-2-3-1 DEEP formation and both were dire - yet Sunderland were linked with Novaretti and Roma with Bottinelli? I have found that I'm very solid defensively preseason, against weaker and stronger opposition, and maybe even for the first few games of the season, but then the floodgates open and when they do, morale goes bust and the whole thing degenerates into farce. EG - won 5 preseason games and first 3 league games, up 1-0 at half time away to Forest, had the better of the second half but still lost 4-1 and then could't buy a win, despite having more possession and 3-4 times as many clear cut chances in a number of the following games.

Thanks again and sorry to sound so helpless!

1 - Not really, if you want to play a rigid system with attacking full backs you can. They will make forward runs when possible, but will stick to their position most of the time.

2 - It is possible, as long as there is support for him, being a trequartista he will float out of position a lot looking for space and the ball, so it will leave no one up top in certain occasions, but if you have someone from midfield supporting he can take up the space. Personally i would rather go for a Target man or Poacher for the loan striker role and leave the playmaking to the players behind him.

3 - You have to remember a few things, first off even good players have bad days, no matter what attributes they have they can still fall appart on any given day, second, it takes time for a defense to get to know each other, you need to give them 6 months worth of games to see if the combo works properly, if they are good players they will find their feet. If your really struglling make sure your making use of match prep before every single game. The third thing to think about is, are your central defenders really the problem? Or are they exposed and as such being ripped appart? Remember if you conceed 4 goals, your centre backs will take a match rating hit, even if all 4 goals come because your midfield has not been supporting your defense. The fact you have tried so many centre halves would suggest your team does not defend well, and the centre backs are just taking the brunt of it.

Also, pre-season means almost nothing, dont pay a huge amount of attention to your preseason results, they mean very little in the bigger picture.

Kenco, by 4-2-3-1 Deep I mean GK, RB, 2 x CD, LB, then 2 DMC, AMR, AMC. AML, STC. Example below : -

GK, Defend

RB, (Attack) CD (Cover) CD (Stopper) LB (Support)

DM (DLP Defend) DM (DM Support)

AMR (Inside F attack) AMC (AMC attack) AML (Advan Play, Support)

TQ (attack)

Fluid, control, shorter passing press more. Have varied to try balanced, balanced, normal everything and have not yet found a successful combination. Maybe Rhodes is the problem - I've tried him as the TQ and he's hit and miss - yet rated as a leading championship striker? But problems are generally with ST, AMC and CDs Is the right back attack exposing the CD Cover? I just can't figure it out.

Thanks for your reply though.

Rhodes will not make a good Trequartista.

Thanks for your replies, Milnerpoint.

Following your replies, if my CDs are exposed, how is this possible with 2 DCMs in front? Also, I actually agree that Rhodes is not an ideal TQ - but the coaching staff have it as his best role. Any suggestions on how to deploy him if not as a TQ? He has a PM of "plays with back to goal" so I don't think he's a poacher and he doesn't have the physical stats to be a target man. He flopped as advanced forward as well? Any suggestions? Many thanks again. I tried to ask the player not to play with back to goal but this was unsuccessful.

I think Cougar covered most things earlier but I'll add my thoughts.

1. If you play a lone Treq, you should probably have your wide men on attack so they can exploit the space he leaves when dropping deep.

2. As mentioned, your AMC on attack is too far away from your DMs, especially if playing short passing. He will be too far up to be a passing option, meaning they will only pass to each other or back to defence. Either drop him back to MC or change your passing style.

3. Put your full backs on attack, they will be covered by having 2 DMs.

4. I wouldn't play a stopper in defence, with 2 DMs in front it's not needed and he will keep getting pulled out of position. Play both DCs on defend or even both as cover.

and the most important...

5. Watch the next couple of games, the entire 90 minutes. Use shouts during the game to make changes. Pause and rewind every now and then to analyse passages of play. There is no better way to learn about tactics than to watch them in action for yourself.

I'm no tactical master but a couple of things to consider perhaps:

I've found that using a Stopper/Cover combination at DC left my defenders being pulled all over the place. I.e. the Stopper would charge out to press a forward while the Cover held back - opposing AMCs or DLF were loving the space between them. I've found things to be much more tight just using Defenders.

Is your DLP-D on the right hand side of your midfield? If he's on the left it might be that the Support instructions of the right DM are causing him to leave gaps as he pushes up a little further.

Thanks for your replies, Milnerpoint.

Following your replies, if my CDs are exposed, how is this possible with 2 DCMs in front? Also, I actually agree that Rhodes is not an ideal TQ - but the coaching staff have it as his best role. Any suggestions on how to deploy him if not as a TQ? He has a PM of "plays with back to goal" so I don't think he's a poacher and he doesn't have the physical stats to be a target man. He flopped as advanced forward as well? Any suggestions? Many thanks again. I tried to ask the player not to play with back to goal but this was unsuccessful.

Well are your two DCM's playing well? What about from wide area's? Do your wide midfielders provide any cover or is that left to the full backs? Another thing to watch for would be your full backs pushing too far up, which in turn leaves a lot of space behind them the AI attacks, and you find your centre backs being pulled appart to try and cover. Defending is a team game afterall, it requires everyone to be doing their bit, not just your 3/4 defenders. What about your goal keeper? How good is he at organising and communicating with your defense? Its another thing worth looking at. Like i say if you are continually finding your centre backs playing poorly it would suggest to me they are not the issue, but they are bearing the brunt of the AI's attacks.

In regards to Rhodes, id have him as a poacher or target man, even if he doesnt have the physicals, you have to remember that each role can be changed to suit any player, you can take some of the instructions off the target man roles to suit Rhodes, things like making sure the supply to him is to feet would be a good one, he isnt going to win many headers against centre backs. I dont think he has the technical ability for an advanced forward, he is more someone you want to see in the penalty box on the end of everything.

I think Cougar covered most things earlier but I'll add my thoughts.

1. If you play a lone Treq, you should probably have your wide men on attack so they can exploit the space he leaves when dropping deep.

2. As mentioned, your AMC on attack is too far away from your DMs, especially if playing short passing. He will be too far up to be a passing option, meaning they will only pass to each other or back to defence. Either drop him back to MC or change your passing style.

3. Put your full backs on attack, they will be covered by having 2 DMs.

4. I wouldn't play a stopper in defence, with 2 DMs in front it's not needed and he will keep getting pulled out of position. Play both DCs on defend or even both as cover.

and the most important...

5. Watch the next couple of games, the entire 90 minutes. Use shouts during the game to make changes. Pause and rewind every now and then to analyse passages of play. There is no better way to learn about tactics than to watch them in action for yourself.

Thanks again Kenco. If coaches, for example, say Bottinelli (who is 5'11 but aggressive) say he plays best as stopper defender, is it a bad idea to play him as defender, defend as suggested? Will he play worse if not playing as coaches suggest?

If using the TQ, should the attacking mids be inside forwards - or narrow wingers? I played the AMC to give the attack another option in case the TQ drops deeper. If I play AMC deeper - as support or as MC, am I at risk of leaving no one up front?

I'll try and get to watch a full 90 mins. Time is against me though. I'm trying to get a decent save started and am short on time!

Take what the coaches say about their best role with a pinch of salt. There is very little difference in the best attributes required for stopper, cover and defend. They are so similar that it doesn't matter, you need to select the roles that suit your tactics rather than players.

If using a treq I'd have the AMR/AML as IFs on attack, so they are getting into the box when the treq drops deep.

The AMC is a difficult one, but even dropping him to an MC position with an attack duty will see him getting forward and into the box.

The full game doesn't take 90 minutes though, you can speed it up a little. When I watch the full game it takes about 20 minutes. It can be time consuming but you only have to do it a couple of times to really help your understanding of where things are going wrong and go back to key or extended highlights afterwards.

The coaches recommendation does not mean that the player will feel most confident in that role, it just adds up perceived key attributes for each role and recommends the one that comes up the highest. Do not take that as an absolute.

At the risk of driving you mad, can I ask, for example about one player I loaned. Nauzet Aleman. He's a good winger for a Championship team. Coaches say right winger, attack duty. One of his PPMs is to "cut inside". He's right footed. Because he is right footed, and yet cuts inside, is he best deployed as right winger attack or inside forward? Also, if I use inside forwards on attack, should the full backs be deployed as wing backs?

Take what the coaches say about their best role with a pinch of salt. There is very little difference in the best attributes required for stopper, cover and defend. They are so similar that it doesn't matter, you need to select the roles that suit your tactics rather than players.

If using a treq I'd have the AMR/AML as IFs on attack, so they are getting into the box when the treq drops deep.

The AMC is a difficult one, but even dropping him to an MC position with an attack duty will see him getting forward and into the box.

The full game doesn't take 90 minutes though, you can speed it up a little. When I watch the full game it takes about 20 minutes. It can be time consuming but you only have to do it a couple of times to really help your understanding of where things are going wrong and go back to key or extended highlights afterwards.

Also - goalkeeper - Jung Sung Ryong - seems good enough for Championship at least - yet he very rarely socres well - he averages 6.5, maybe lower. Changed his distribution to defender collect, mixed passing, short throw - just can't get him to perform? Is that "communication", or language barrier, time to bed in? Even while he was averaging 6.5 or so, Man City were interested. He could even score low if we did manage to keep a clean sheet.

At the risk of driving you mad, can I ask, for example about one player I loaned. Nauzet Aleman. He's a good winger for a Championship team. Coaches say right winger, attack duty. One of his PPMs is to "cut inside". He's right footed. Because he is right footed, and yet cuts inside, is he best deployed as right winger attack or inside forward? Also, if I use inside forwards on attack, should the full backs be deployed as wing backs?

Coaches will say right winger, because that will be his natural position, if you think his attributes and PPM's suit left wing then you should make that choice. Re-train the player to play where you think he would play best, not where your coaches tell you. As other said, the coach recommendation is very basic and based off nothing but key attributes for a position and their abiliy to play said position, it takes nothing else into consdieration.

Thanks again. Should the full back on the right be a wing back if inside forward is used? I did think my right back struggled a lot when given attack duty - wondered if that left my defence exposed - which is why I was using short passing and control. - (Bernd Nehrig). Thanks again.

Coaches will say right winger, because that will be his natural position, if you think his attributes and PPM's suit left wing then you should make that choice. Re-train the player to play where you think he would play best, not where your coaches tell you. As other said, the coach recommendation is very basic and based off nothing but key attributes for a position and their abiliy to play said position, it takes nothing else into consdieration.

Thanks again. Should the full back on the right be a wing back if inside forward is used? I did think my right back struggled a lot when given attack duty - wondered if that left my defence exposed - which is why I was using short passing and control. - (Bernd Nehrig). Thanks again.

If im playing inside forwards i like to use attacking full backs to provide the extra width, but it depends if you have full backs good enough to do that. There is no point sticking a slow, full back who is not a good crosser as an attacking full back, he will get caught out and he wont do the job when he gets forward often enough.

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this but one important thing to note when using a TQ is that he will automatically be picked as your playmaker unless you override it, looking at your formation I'd say you want to set your DLP as playmaker rather than the TQ as it will mean your team playing more direct than you want. I'd definitely hesitate using a TQ anyway at Championship level, few players are anywhere near good enough for what is a highly demanding role. Also note that when using a TQ it automatically drops the mentality of every other player on your team.

Also, take match ratings with a pinch of salt, especially for midfielders and goalkeepers, they are flawed. you are much better judging players on their individual stats (pass completion, tackles, interceptions, headers, saves for goalkeepers, etc).

Thanks again. On one tactics forum I read that the full backs should be set as wing back, on another as full backs attack and an another as full backs support. Also, it was mentioned that why wouuld you want your attacking full backs crossing if your lone striker is a TQ, but that if you limit their crossing, and they press forward, it will more wasted long shots - can you see how I'm so confused!

Thanks again though. Your help is very much appreciated.

If im playing inside forwards i like to use attacking full backs to provide the extra width, but it depends if you have full backs good enough to do that. There is no point sticking a slow, full back who is not a good crosser as an attacking full back, he will get caught out and he wont do the job when he gets forward often enough.

Thank you for your reply. I did notice that and deselected the TQ as playmaker. If the DLP/DM is the playmaker, is more direct passing advisable? Will he be too restricted in a rigid formation? How does using the TQ drop the mentality of every other player? Thanks again.

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this but one important thing to note when using a TQ is that he will automatically be picked as your playmaker unless you override it, looking at your formation I'd say you want to set your DLP as playmaker rather than the TQ as it will mean your team playing more direct than you want. I'd definitely hesitate using a TQ anyway at Championship level, few players are anywhere near good enough for what is a highly demanding role. Also note that when using a TQ it automatically drops the mentality of every other player on your team.

Also, take match ratings with a pinch of salt, especially for midfielders and goalkeepers, they are flawed. you are much better judging players on their individual stats (pass completion, tackles, interceptions, headers, saves for goalkeepers, etc).

At the risk of driving you mad, can I ask, for example about one player I loaned. Nauzet Aleman. He's a good winger for a Championship team. Coaches say right winger, attack duty. One of his PPMs is to "cut inside". He's right footed. Because he is right footed, and yet cuts inside, is he best deployed as right winger attack or inside forward? Also, if I use inside forwards on attack, should the full backs be deployed as wing backs?

Have a look at his attributes for inside forward and if they are also good then go with it. The problem with these coach reports is they just give the best position/role/duty based on adding up the key attributes, without saying how close behind another position/role/duty might suit him. In fact, his attributes could be identical for two roles and you will only be shown one as his best role. Perhaps some kind of list with star ratings would be helpful in this area of the game.

For this reason (and because I want players to play my way) I tend to ignore what the coaches say and go with my own feeling by looking at the attributes.

Thanks again. On one tactics forum I read that the full backs should be set as wing back, on another as full backs attack and an another as full backs support. Also, it was mentioned that why wouuld you want your attacking full backs crossing if your lone striker is a TQ, but that if you limit their crossing, and they press forward, it will more wasted long shots - can you see how I'm so confused!

Thanks again though. Your help is very much appreciated.

What to remember mate, is everyone and their dog has their own opinion and idea's for tactics, one guy thinks your defense is only there to defend, another thinks a full back is pointless unless he is playing like Alves every week. If your going to read a lot of FM theory you have to learn that your reading it for tips, not for exact guidence, you have to take those tips and see what works againt your ideals and players. Look at your full backs, what are their main strengths and weaknesses, can they go forward well? As important, can they get back after being forward? If your going to play inside forwards, are your other players able to provide the width the inside forwards will not provide? i could go on and on but you get the picture.

Spend an evening going over all your players against what you want your tactic to do, dont just sign the best players possible, sign the best players to create the picture of your team you have in your head.

Thank you for your reply. I did notice that and deselected the TQ as playmaker. If the DLP/DM is the playmaker, is more direct passing advisable? Will he be too restricted in a rigid formation? How does using the TQ drop the mentality of every other player? Thanks again.

More direct passing is only advisable if that's what you want or your team are suited too. Personally in a 4231 deep I use shorter passing with attacking full backs and at least two of the front four on support to give the DLP options.

The tactic creator automatically reduces the mentality/creative freedom/roaming of all other players when you select one as a TQ. This is to account for the extra freedom and lack of defensive work the TQ will do. Of course you can override this.

Also has anyone mentioned squad gelling? You seem to have signed a lot of players.

You really should ask one of the moderators to move this thread over to the tactics/training section.

I know gelling can be an issue - especially if players are signed from other cultures. However, what made me think gelling was not the issue was the fact that we started very brightly and then couldn't buy a win. I wasn't sure whether is was a case of confidence evaporating at an extraordinary level or what the problem was.

I had good coaches, standard training. On one occasion I was top after 10 games and due to irreversible slump, was sacked before XMass. One extreme to the other. There was a consistent pattern of great preseason, great start, slump. There are some teams in the Championship who are overrated. One team was playing a flat looking 4-4-2, had 2 poachers on each side of midfield and was simply unbeatable - won practically all its games. Being honest, I though that tactic looked on paper far more silly than anything I could concoct.

I dont want to downloand someone else's tactic or some super exploit tactic. -

Thomit - I was looking for general guidance for assistance. One final point - in one game, I dropped Rhodes to the reserves. He played his first reserves game and scored 4 goals. How did he do that I wondered? I thought it was a bit silly that I couldn't check to see what role my Assistant Manager had given him in that reserve game. It seemed my Assistant Manager deployed him to devestating effect, but wasn't going to tell me how he did it. I think that is something that could be looked at. I opened this thread here with an open mind and not as a tactic discussion. It was open to anyone to say "the players you use are just not good enough", or whatever.

Many thanks again to those who have offered constructive assistance.

Also has anyone mentioned squad gelling? You seem to have signed a lot of players.

I've often found that even with loads of new signings pre season often goes well only for the regular season to start slowly. I think that has much to do with the amount of pressure on them. I think you sometimes just have to power through these moments and just make little tweaks if something clearly isn't working.

If you are conceding a lot of goals in the last quarter of matches it could be down to your defenders having low stamina and concentration attributes, and bear in mind that attacking fullbacks need a fair helping of stamina. (and those naughty wingers don't like tracking back do they!)

I went through many setups with my fullbacks before finding that Fullbacks on Defend, with the PPM "Get's Forward Whenever Possible" worked brilliantly for me. (coupled with Stopper/Cover Central Defenders)

Something to look out for generally is using short passing with a tactic that has large spaces between the lines, unless you have their mentality spot on some players will find themselves with no passing option and will usually get caught on the ball or kick the ball to nowhere in particular.