Desktops for FM

Hey I'm sure this has been done on here before but don't want to bring up old threads. I've been looking at getting a new computer that will run FM well - my current one is 4 years old and the memory is really struggling, as well as the graphics card not coping with 3D. My budget isn't great though, £300-500 really. I have a feeling you're all going to tell me this is crap but I don't know anything about computers, so just in case: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/advent-dt2204-desktop-pc-with-samsung-ls20b300ns-20-led-monitor-12593015-pdt.html?intcmpid=display~RR~~12593015. Does the 6gb of RAM mean it'd be good?

Ideally I'd like to be able to run up to 20 countries at a time. Apologies if I'm a bit naive about these!

The details are a bit scratchy for that machine, but I am sure that for up to 500 pounds you could do a lot better than that.

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Poison-Ivy.html

3rd gen i5 for £400, no monitor included but you may already have that covered. I'd also look at spending a little more to upgrade the RAM from 4 to 8gb as this will allow FM to use it's full addressable RAM & leave enough spare for you to multi-task.

As FrazT says the PC World one is a little thin on detail but what I can say is that as it's using a Pentium CPU it would be unlikely to be comfortable running 20 nations & I'd suspect you'd be back to wanted a system upgrade in less than 18 months.

nice choice barside..

although i'd be more inclined to go for say:

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Chimera.html

better processor (even though yours is 3rd gen) .. has a dedicated card and extra ram and extra HDD space

but of course... you are paying a 100 notes more.. but still... great value for me

I had the same issue as you and found this PC in Comet for £450. It's quad core, i5, has 6GB of RAM, 1TB hard drive and FM purs along on it beautifully. Can highly recommend.

http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Computer-Base-Units/buy-ASUS-CM6730-UK002O-Computer-Base-Unit/790630

but then again...

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Neptune.html

for 500 notes you get the best gaming processor around for the price/power,8GB ram, 1TB hdd AND you get 22 inch screen + peripherals aswell..

brilliant system... it will run fm like a dream and if you decide you want to play the best modern games.. all you'll need is a small upgrade (get a dedicated card)

Sorry to hijack this thread but what would be the best Dekstop/Laptop for FM for £1000? Do you guys think it is worth paying that with FM being the main reason behind it?

Thanks.

Sorry to hijack this thread but what would be the best Dekstop/Laptop for FM for £1000? Do you guys think it is worth paying that with FM being the main reason behind it?

Thanks.

Personally that would be overkill for FM- you could get a good computer for about 600 which would handle FM beautifully- see above

Personally that would be overkill for FM- you could get a good computer for about 600 which would handle FM beautifully- see above

Ah ok thanks. The thing is though, I want my system to be future proof for a while at least so want a powerful system that won't be crap in a few years time.

Future proofing is an impossible dream. I thought I was on a winner 3 years ago when I went for an I7-920 only for Intel to scrap Socket B which instantly ended any chance of cost effective periodical upgrading.

tbh... buy a £600 system now and you can easy upgrade as you go...

add a bit more ram , change the graphics card, even the processor if your mobo is a decent one...

spending a grand now is a waste of cash...

put it like this..

last year i built an i5 system for £700 ... i could build the same spec now for £400-500 ....

the trick is to only spend what you need and upgrade how and when you need it until your system isn't compatible or worth the money anymore

I had the same issue as you and found this PC in Comet for £450. It's quad core, i5, has 6GB of RAM, 1TB hard drive and FM purs along on it beautifully. Can highly recommend.

http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Computer-Base-Units/buy-ASUS-CM6730-UK002O-Computer-Base-Unit/790630

This looks like a good one. What does it mean about 'dedicated graphics' and 'shared graphics'? Is not having 'dedicated graphics' likely to be an issue for FM?

Future proofing is an impossible dream. I thought I was on a winner 3 years ago when I went for an I7-920 only for Intel to scrap Socket B which instantly ended any chance of cost effective periodical upgrading.

tbh... buy a £600 system now and you can easy upgrade as you go...

add a bit more ram , change the graphics card, even the processor if your mobo is a decent one...

spending a grand now is a waste of cash...

put it like this..

last year i built an i5 system for £700 ... i could build the same spec now for £400-500 ....

the trick is to only spend what you need and upgrade how and when you need it until your system isn't compatible or worth the money anymore

Thanks alot guys, you have saved me £300-£400

So I should be looking at the i5 2500k would you say?

If you are willing to spend £1000 on a desktop (I'd only get a laptop if work kept me away from home on a regular basis) then I'd get the best that my money can buy, if you're looking at buying on finance then an i5 at around £500-£600 is IMHO the way to go.

This looks like a good one. What does it mean about 'dedicated graphics' and 'shared graphics'? Is not having 'dedicated graphics' likely to be an issue for FM?

A dedicated graphics card is one which is away from the motherboard and uses its own memory and a shared one, is usually mounted on the motherboard and shares the computer's memory. Although it is recommemded that a dediacted card is used for FM, there are some shared cards that will be OK for FM.

How much of a PC gamer are you? If FM is all you play then a cheap low end model is all you need, have around 3GB or more in RAM and a simple nvidea geforce 7300GS should be good enough to play medium 3D graphics and have the speed running smoothly, but if you're after a more high end PC system then try the Dell Alienware range starting from £649, I know you said your budget is £500 but at an extra £149 you can get a whole lot more out of it.

Alienware?? 10 years ago maybe but all they are now is a brand name wrapped in a fancy case, the fact that the entry level Alienware system is a stock i3 is shocking & is designed purely to prey on people who remember the name.

It's also worth noting that although FM is separate from the wider PC gaming community it does not mean that high end PC's are not worth the investment, there isn't a PC game out there that is anywhere near as CPU & RAM dependent as FM.

Alienware?? 10 years ago maybe but all they are now is a brand name wrapped in a fancy case, the fact that the entry level Alienware system is a stock i3 is shocking & is designed purely to prey on people who remember the name.

It's also worth noting that although FM is separate from the wider PC gaming community it does not mean that high end PC's are not worth the investment, there isn't a PC game out there that is anywhere near as CPU & RAM dependent as FM.

Yeah I would agree, especially if you want to load up lots of leagues. I would like to have a PC that could run a lot as I like to find players and develop them. FM is the only game I play on the PC but I do other things on it obviously. I want one with a decent sound card etc. so might customise one of those chillblast PC's.

If you're comfortable customising the rig then http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ are worth a look.

If you're comfortable customising the rig then http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ are worth a look.

Nah I'm only comortable customising a few things. PC Specialist seems a bit pricey too, Chillblast has very good value deals.

Are desktops internet enabled now so you dont have an internet wire coming out like a laptop,sorry such a dumb question but don't keep up todate like some people

You can get wireless desktops, just need to the same wireless thing that is in laptops. No idea the proper name for it though.

For the OP;

Case

STYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA MICRO-ATX CASE + 2 FRONT USB

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™i3-2120 Dual Core (3.30GHz, 3MB Cache) + HD Graphics

Motherboard

ASUS® P8H61-M LE/USB3 (NEW REV 3.0): M-ATX, USB 3.0, SATA 3.0Gb/s

Memory (RAM)

4GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 2GB)

Graphics Card

1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 550 Ti - DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

Memory - 1^st Hard Disk

500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE

1^st DVD/BLU-RAY

Drive24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Memory Card Reader

INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT

Power Supply

450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£29)

Processor Cooling

INTEL SOCKET LGA1155 STANDARD CPU COOLER

Sound Card

ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Network Facilities

10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs

USB Options

4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD

Operating SystemGenuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

Office SoftwareNO OFFICE SOFTWARE

Anti-VirusNO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE

Warranty3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

DeliverySTANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build TimeStandard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days

Quantity

1

Price: £509.00 including VAT and delivery.

If you have a copy of Windows already you can improve on a couple of the components.

Narrowed it down to a couple I think. I know I could probably get a better deal from online sites but I prefer to have a shop to go to.

http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Computer-Base-Units/buy-ASUS-CM6730-UK002O-Computer-Base-Unit/790630

or

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/asus-essentio-cm6730-uk007o-desktop-pc-12448428-pdt.html

Is the second one worth the extra £100?

Narrowed it down to a couple I think. I know I could probably get a better deal from online sites but I prefer to have a shop to go to.

http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Computer-Base-Units/buy-ASUS-CM6730-UK002O-Computer-Base-Unit/790630

or

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/asus-essentio-cm6730-uk007o-desktop-pc-12448428-pdt.html

Is the second one worth the extra £100?

If you're going to go with a brick and mortar, you're not going to get value for money. Neither of those have a dedicated graphics card, whereas the one I made on PCSpecialist has a mid-high graphics card.

The first system has 6GB of Ram which is a pointless size - as it most likely won't be dual channel and so you lose a bit of performance because of something that doesn't offer you any bonuses.

The second machine has an i7 processor which offers no benefit over an i5 for gaming and is likely taking up half of the price of that machine - meaning that the PSU, motherboard and RAM will be poor quality.

You will be fine with a desktop i3 for FM when you're on that budget, honestly.

If you're going to go with a brick and mortar, you're not going to get value for money. Neither of those have a dedicated graphics card, whereas the one I made on PCSpecialist has a mid-high graphics card.

The first system has 6GB of Ram which is a pointless size - as it most likely won't be dual channel and so you lose a bit of performance because of something that doesn't offer you any bonuses.

The second machine has an i7 processor which offers no benefit over an i5 for gaming and is likely taking up half of the price of that machine - meaning that the PSU, motherboard and RAM will be poor quality.

You will be fine with a desktop i3 for FM when you're on that budget, honestly.

That's good to know tbh, I didn't know that. I'll save myself some money then and go for an i5 system.

There is no point in opening a new thread so I'll just keep posting in here. So yeah after some after thought, I won't be spending £1000, maybe somewhere around £500 - £800. Would the i5 2500k still be the best processor for the amount I'll be spending?

Thanks in advance.

K models are only value for money if you intend on overclocking.

Such a waste of money buying a store bought computer. I really don't understand why anyone would choose that over a computer from chillblast, they make it so easy for people who aren't computer savvy to buy a good computer for a fair price.

Such a waste of money buying a store bought computer. I really don't understand why anyone would choose that over a computer from chillblast, they make it so easy for people who aren't computer savvy to buy a good computer for a fair price.

I thought I saw someone on here the other day complaining that they massively overcharge for stuff? I shall investigate..

I thought I saw someone on here the other day complaining that they massively overcharge for stuff? I shall investigate..

Well my one was reasonably priced, and when you factor in the unbelievably amazing customer service it's such great value for money. The pre-sale advice is second to none, as is everything customer service related to be honest.

When i got my computer from them (i bought i whole desktop with screen and peripherals) they emailed me saying they ran out of stock of the screen i was getting, so they threw in a superior screen that cost £120 more for nothing. Not many companies would do that.

So I just built the same (as close as I could) machines on chillblast and PCSpecialist.

Prices were neck and neck - there was about £15 difference in it - but I couldn't choose the same case and the PCSpecialist one that I chose was a bit better for about the same price as the one chillblast offered.

I then went through with PCPartpicker and came to £954.14 (vs £1164) with some caveats (same model numbers on everything) (in favour of individual components) - I could get a Gigabyte OC7870 instead of a noname (chillblast) card - that card will overclock massively from within CCC.

The other thing that bothered me about chillblast was that they push people towards buying unnecessary components - moreso than PCSpecialist. The cheapest CPU cooler they offered was massive overkill, even for air cooling. The same with the PSUs - the smallest PSU I could get was 600W of a no name brand - or a 750W Corsair. That's ridiculous.

Surely the biggest caveat with PCPartPIcker is that you just get parts rather than a ready to go PC?

Just like when buying a Caterham some people are willing to pay extra for a factory built model. I do agree that for some it creates an unnecessary additional cost as assembling a PC is not as daunting as it once was but the reassurance of having a company put the rig together can be worth more than the saving for a DIY project, after all if the DIY goes wrong because you made a mistake somewhere you can't ask yourself to provide a replacement.

Surely the biggest caveat with PCPartPIcker is that you just get parts rather than a ready to go PC?

Just like when buying a Caterham some people are willing to pay extra for a factory built model. I do agree that for some it creates an unnecessary additional cost as assembling a PC is not as daunting as it once was but the reassurance of having a company put the rig together can be worth more than the saving for a DIY project, after all if the DIY goes wrong because you made a mistake somewhere you can't ask yourself to provide a replacement.

I agree with this. I would prefer to buy a pre built system.

Any recommendations Barside? I'm willing to spend £500 - £800.

Surely the biggest caveat with PCPartPIcker is that you just get parts rather than a ready to go PC?

Just like when buying a Caterham some people are willing to pay extra for a factory built model. I do agree that for some it creates an unnecessary additional cost as assembling a PC is not as daunting as it once was but the reassurance of having a company put the rig together can be worth more than the saving for a DIY project, after all if the DIY goes wrong because you made a mistake somewhere you can't ask yourself to provide a replacement.

Seriously, I would encourage everyone to try building their own. I don't really see it as a negative, especially when it saves you ~£200 and you get absolute free reign of components. That and you get warranty by components, some of which are 10 years, 8 years, 5 years - rather than 3 years across the whole machine (PCSpecialist).

I appreciate that some people don't feel comfortable doing that, and that's where getting a company to prebuild it for you relieves some responsibility. You just have to add £150 - £250 onto your budget or lower your expectations.

Geek snobbery at it's finest.

I bought off the shelf for my current PC because at the time I had the money to pay for the added convenience plus as I was working 10+ hours a day with another 3-4 hours travel time I didn't have the spare time to assemble the components & properly stress test it.

I'd also add that my current rig is based around a 3 year old o/c LGA1366 i7 & it hasn't skipped a beat, the same cannot be said of PC's that friends put together themselves because people on forums said it was easy, that being said the more tech savvy individuals I know have had no problems with self built machines but then again tech savvy folk would generally not be asking what desktop/laptop to buy on this forum.

It's not snobbery, it's actually a really useful skill to have. It's not like I was saying "everyone who buys prebuilt machines are morons!!!!" now, was it? Why do people have to be so personally insulted on here at the lightest of replies?

"Oh, he's sharing a life experience - SNOBBERY!!"

Most of my knowledge of computing has come from building and messing about with machines. The first time I built a computer I had no idea what I was doing - and that was in harder days when cases were full of sharp edges, processors could be broken very easily and fitting a power supply would probably have been easier with a welding torch than a screwdriver.

You always pay more off the shelf, and you typically get lumbered with cheaper components or a mix of stuff that you don't really need with some stuff that you do need.

So with regards to Gee - where, ideally, would you like to purchase your PC from? Somewhere like PCSpecialist, or a high street shop?

It's not snobbery, it's actually a really useful skill to have. It's not like I was saying "everyone who buys prebuilt machines are morons!!!!" now, was it? Why do people have to be so personally insulted on here at the lightest of replies?

"Oh, he's sharing a life experience - SNOBBERY!!"

Most of my knowledge of computing has come from building and messing about with machines. The first time I built a computer I had no idea what I was doing - and that was in harder days when cases were full of sharp edges, processors could be broken very easily and fitting a power supply would probably have been easier with a welding torch than a screwdriver.

You always pay more off the shelf, and you typically get lumbered with cheaper components or a mix of stuff that you don't really need with some stuff that you do need.

So with regards to Gee - where, ideally, would you like to purchase your PC from? Somewhere like PCSpecialist, or a high street shop?

Either really but places like Chilblast seem cheaper so I would probably try and avoid the high street shops.

PCSPECIALIST.CO.UK QUOTATION

The specification below has been formatted so you can easily copy and paste this to our forums when discussing your specification. Once you've copied the specification, pleaseclick here to continue.

CaseSTYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA CASE + 2 FRONT USB

Processor (CPU)Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-3470 (3.2GHz) 6MB Cache

MotherboardASUS® P8H61-M LE/USB3 (NEW REV 3.0): M-ATX, USB 3.0, SATA 3.0Gb/s

Memory (RAM)8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)

Graphics Card1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

Memory - 1^st Hard Disk1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

2^nd Hard Disk120GB INTEL® 330 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 500MB/sR | 450MB/sW)

1^st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Memory Card ReaderINTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT

Power Supply450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£29)

Processor CoolingINTEL SOCKET LGA1155 STANDARD CPU COOLER

Sound CardONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Network Facilities10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs

USB Options

Operating System

Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

Warranty3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

DeliverySTANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build TimeStandard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days

Quantity

1

Price: £806.00 including VAT and delivery.

Configure Here: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-home-office-pc/VhApAp0KyA/

That's pretty decent - you can save £80 if you already have a copy of Windows.

[/url]

So I just built the same (as close as I could) machines on chillblast and PCSpecialist.

Prices were neck and neck - there was about £15 difference in it - but I couldn't choose the same case and the PCSpecialist one that I chose was a bit better for about the same price as the one chillblast offered.

I then went through with PCPartpicker and came to £954.14 (vs £1164) with some caveats (same model numbers on everything) (in favour of individual components) - I could get a Gigabyte OC7870 instead of a noname (chillblast) card - that card will overclock massively from within CCC.

The other thing that bothered me about chillblast was that they push people towards buying unnecessary components - moreso than PCSpecialist. The cheapest CPU cooler they offered was massive overkill, even for air cooling. The same with the PSUs - the smallest PSU I could get was 600W of a no name brand - or a 750W Corsair. That's ridiculous.

See, the prices are very reasonable. Especially when you consider chillblast build the computer for you, stress test it and optimize all the software you want for your machine. If you don't mind building it yourself then i would always buy individual components, and indeed i have in the past, but i took a chance on chillblast and they really impressed me.

But for someone who isn't tech savvy like you or I, I would urge them to check out chillblast rather than going to a high street shop, the value for what you get is a hundred times better, all systems come with a 2year full warranty as well. I would certainly not advise people who aren't confident enough to know what parts they need to even consider building a rig themselves, even people who understand all the specs don't always have the manual skills required, and a lot can go wrong.

I'm beginning to sound like a bloody sales rep for chillblast actually....

See, the prices are very reasonable. Especially when you consider chillblast build the computer for you, stress test it and optimize all the software you want for your machine. If you don't mind building it yourself then i would always buy individual components, and indeed i have in the past, but i took a chance on chillblast and they really impressed me.

But for someone who isn't tech savvy like you or I, I would urge them to check out chillblast rather than going to a high street shop, the value for what you get is a hundred times better, all systems come with a 2year full warranty as well. I would certainly not advise people who aren't confident enough to know what parts they need to even consider building a rig themselves, even people who understand all the specs don't always have the manual skills required, and a lot can go wrong.

I'm beginning to sound like a bloody sales rep for chillblast actually....

Can you explain what that is, exactly? Because to me that's "Oh, we change a setting or two in Windows and add £30 to the price!"

But the point you make is certainly valid. I go with PCSpecialist as I've had more experience with them, and they offer 3 year warranty rather than 2.

Can you explain what that is, exactly? Because to me that's "Oh, we change a setting or two in Windows and add £30 to the price!"

But the point you make is certainly valid. I go with PCSpecialist as I've had more experience with them, and they offer 3 year warranty rather than 2.

Surely someone such as yourself knows what it means!

But it isn't just going into windows and making Messenger not start-up when you load up the machine like you're implying. The OS optimization is custom made for the components you select, like if you choose a build with an SSD they will optimize windows to best make use of those components.

But yeah, 99% of people don't care or won't notice any difference, it's hardly a massive selling point, just something i thought i would mention. Oh, and they don't charge for it.

And yeah, i agree that building your own computer is the best way to do things, i was just explaining that for the people in this thread that option may not be the best choice.

Although, last time i built a computer my hand slipped and i sliced my hand open on my motherboard, and consequently broke it

I've given up giving PC advice after two of my friends have gone and bought Alienware laptops purely because you get a free hat and the keyboard lights up.

See I need a monitor as well, a full system with peripherals.

I've given up giving PC advice after two of my friends have gone and bought Alienware laptops purely because you get a free hat and the keyboard lights up.

My mate did the same thing a while back. "Build me a custom system Brad, you're good at that kinda stuff" he said, so i do it and the day later i get back to him and he tells me he has a new alienware laptop, the one with the glowing keyboard.

I facepalmed so hard.

@ Wakers - Isn't this a better deal? http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Diablo.html

Chillblast seems the cheapest around for pre built systems.

Surely someone such as yourself knows what it means!

But it isn't just going into windows and making Messenger not start-up when you load up the machine like you're implying. The OS optimization is custom made for the components you select, like if you choose a build with an SSD they will optimize windows to best make use of those components.

But yeah, 99% of people don't care or won't notice any difference, it's hardly a massive selling point, just something i thought i would mention. Oh, and they don't charge for it.

And yeah, i agree that building your own computer is the best way to do things, i was just explaining that for the people in this thread that option may not be the best choice.

Although, last time i built a computer my hand slipped and i sliced my hand open on my motherboard, and consequently broke it

Yea - here's my problem. Windows does that itself. Like if you have an Intel Core i processor of any type, it will download the extra chipset drivers itself the first time you turn the computer on (or while installing Windows, even). It's a con.

@ Gee - Sorry, I missed that you need the monitor and everything. That might lower what you can get quite a bit.

The one you linked to is not too bad for the price - what's the warranty? They use "chillblast" branded stuff which makes me a bit suspicious as to their durability.

Ah ok thanks. The thing is though, I want my system to be future proof for a while at least so want a powerful system that won't be crap in a few years time.

Well, it's always been the same with computers and shall remain to be. Whatever you buy now will be outdated in 4 years time a slightly less so if you spend more.

My advise would be that if really only FM was the reasons to buy a new computer, then you should stick to a desktop as that offers better value for money in terms of specs. Then you can also safely afford to pay a bit less and you's still get what a 1,000 pound laptop would offer you. And maybe upgrade the desktop in two years time with some more RAM or stuff.

If again you like having a laptop for its other advantages, then I'd recommend spending some more money because you cannot upgrade it and there will be the day when you get annoyed with its speed (mine just turned 4 years old, I know what I'm talking about...)

hth

Yea - here's my problem. Windows does that itself. Like if you have an Intel Core i processor of any type, it will download the extra chipset drivers itself the first time you turn the computer on (or while installing Windows, even). It's a con.

@ Gee - Sorry, I missed that you need the monitor and everything. That might lower what you can get quite a bit.

The one you linked to is not too bad for the price - what's the warranty? They use "chillblast" branded stuff which makes me a bit suspicious as to their durability.

I'm sure I read it has a 2 year warranty but I'll have to check later. I do have a monitor etc but they are a bit old now and just thought I may as well get a new one. Ideally, I would like to get a system with an i5 2500k.

but then again...

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Neptune.html

for 500 notes you get the best gaming processor around for the price/power,8GB ram, 1TB hdd AND you get 22 inch screen + peripherals aswell..

brilliant system... it will run fm like a dream and if you decide you want to play the best modern games.. all you'll need is a small upgrade (get a dedicated card)

Ended up going for this one, but adding a graphics card and extra cooling and removing the monitor to cover the cost as I have one already. Thanks for all the advice peeps.