State of FM so far

I have never been moved to write a forum post before, but I feel now is the time to express my growing disillusionment with the FM franchise. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think the FM series gets worse with every new iteration. Don't get me wrong, I like all the improvements and tweaks they have made to the series, I just feel with the relentless pursuit for 'realism' they have sucked all the life and fun out of the game. With previous versions, you could find a tactic for your chosen team and in certain cases, it was the only tactic you would ever need, apart from a little tweaking whenever the AI cracked it. These days, there are so many variables that the whole thing just seems random and inconsistent. I dont think this is true to life. Look at Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea. They all play pretty much the same formation week in and week out. Why? Because it's one thing knowing how Man U or Arsenal play and another to actually be good enough to stop them. That's what is so frustrating about FM now. I can patiently assemble a team of world beaters and then watch indifferent results kill my team all because there is no one universal 'super tactic' anymore, meaning I have to keep faffing about with tactics like some sort of deranged Ranieri. Basically, I am just getting hacked off with seemingly random results and performances and not being allowed to have my team play the way I want, the way that I could with previous incarnations. Kinda makes me want to go back and dig out the old CM titles. They might not have the graphical polish or myriad of options but in my opinion they are infinitely more playable and enjoyable. After all, it's a game. And games are meant to be fun, so if that means realism is sacrificed for enjoyment, well thats a trade off I would rather see. Sorry for the long post, just wondered if anyone feels the way I do.

I have never been moved to write a forum post before, but I feel now is the time to express my growing disillusionment with the FM franchise. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think the FM series gets worse with every new iteration. Don't get me wrong, I like all the improvements and tweaks they have made to the series, I just feel with the relentless pursuit for 'realism' they have sucked all the life and fun out of the game. With previous versions, you could find a tactic for your chosen team and in certain cases, it was the only tactic you would ever need, apart from a little tweaking whenever the AI cracked it. These days, there are so many variables that the whole thing just seems random and inconsistent. I dont think this is true to life. Look at Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea. They all play pretty much the same formation week in and week out. Why? Because it's one thing knowing how Man U or Arsenal play and another to actually be good enough to stop them. That's what is so frustrating about FM now. I can patiently assemble a team of world beaters and then watch indifferent results kill my team all because there is no one universal 'super tactic' anymore, meaning I have to keep faffing about with tactics like some sort of deranged Ranieri. Basically, I am just getting hacked off with seemingly random results and performances and not being allowed to have my team play the way I want, the way that I could with previous incarnations. Kinda makes me want to go back and dig out the old CM titles. They might not have the graphical polish or myriad of options but in my opinion they are infinitely more playable and enjoyable. After all, it's a game. And games are meant to be fun, so if that means realism is sacrificed for enjoyment, well thats a trade off I would rather see. Sorry for the long post, just wondered if anyone feels the way I do.

I think the game has improved and gotten much better in all aspects, except taken a backwards step in tactics and match engine for FM08. Unfortunately those are 2 things that are very important and effect nearly every other aspect of the game.

I believe the fact that even with glaring problems, people are still playing FM08 over FM07 which means the other features have improved enough to not go back to previous versions (although some people have).

I believe they need to really work on the match engine for FM09 and completely trash the current tactics system and come up with something that is more realistic and that caters to both people who love to tinker with many options in tactics but are also easier for people who don't like to do so to just put up a preset tactic and still perform reasonable.

Surely the fact that there is no more "super tactic" is a good thing? It makes the game more challenging rather then just picking the best eleven players and knowing you are going to win.

If you don't like tweaking tactics, just do what I do. Make four versions of your tactic, a quick attacking tactic for when your likely to have lots of space, a slow attacking tactic for when the opposition are likely to park the bus in front of goal, a counter attacking tactic for when you are likely to be penned bakc, and a defensive tactic to hold onto a result. Occasional tweaking is required, but not too much if your tactic is any good.

OK fair points but I ask this question. Do you think Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson change their tactics much, if at all? I dont think so. Man Utd always play attacking, possession football, as do Arsenal, whether they are at home or away. That's because football is not so much about the tactics (most teams play 4 4 2 or a variation on that theme). The real crux of the matter is the psychology and motivation. I think SI are getting there in terms of the motivation side of things but I think they have made the tactics engine too random, and in my opinion its a major step back from older versions and the main reason why FM frustrates rathr than entertains me these days.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

OK fair points but I ask this question. Do you think Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson change their tactics much, if at all? I dont think so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps they know how to use their players better than the rest of us...

Chelsea are well known for switching tactics in a match. When they need a goal they change to a more attacking formation to get it.

I'm pretty sure Alex Ferguson constantly tweaks aswell. It goes with a rotation policy.

I'm sorry to say this but I think you have a lack of understand of the realistic nature of top class football.

As for the FM needing to be a case of pick a simple tactic and tweak it slightly, well I have to reply with...'how boring'.

This game is great and there is always a new situation to test how I organise my team.

Rafael Benitez changes his tactics every few season.

He went from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 and now he uses 4-2-3-1

The main problem I have with FM is that it's just not intuitive enough.

For example:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Your star striker suddenly has a dip in form, and there's no feedback from the game as to why this has happened. You just have to constantly tweak tactics until he starts scoring again, not knowing if what you did worked, or he suddenly came out of his slump for no reason.

<LI> One of your players is unhappy at a bid for him being rejected. There's no information in the game to help you understand what can be done to make the player happy again. Especially a player with a 'Balanced' personality and several friends at the club.

<LI> You try to offload a Premiership standard player on average wages, and there's no club in THE ENTIRE WORLD that wants to take him off your hands. For free. There's no indication from the game as to why this is the case.

Stuff like that.

Pretty much 95% or so of the people currently playing FM are going to continue to do so, because it's such an excellent game. But there's always things that can be fixed, and I think that most of the people playing the game would rather see current problems addressed before new features are added.

For those stating Manchester United never change tactics, yes they do. In midweek against Roma they played a defensive counter-attacking tactic for most of the match, only really controlling the game once they went 2-0 up. They approached the game very differently to how they'd approach playing Derby for example.

The match engine in 8.0.2, apart from the corners issue is the best its ever been. SI admittedly messed up with the closing down and shots to goals ratio in previous versions of 08, but they've got rid of those problems now and I'm thoroughly enjoying FM2008 in the same way I enjoyed FM2007.

Tactically I don't think the game is anywhere near as hard as a lot of people make out. A lot of it is fairly obvious and doesn't take the "hours of tweaking" that some suggest you need. It generally takes me a maximum of 5 minutes to create a tactic for my team when I start a new game, with slight tweaks always occuring as I advance.

No disrespect, but please write in paragraphs.

I agree with the need for more feedback from the game (possibly from the Assistant Manager?), and player selling can be annoying, but tactics are part of playing a football management sim. If all you had to do was buy the best players and go, Chelsea would win everything, all the time, and it'd be boring. As they don't do this in real life, I'd say it's as close as it can get for what is, and lets not forget, just a game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

With previous versions, you could find a tactic for your chosen team and in certain cases, it was the only tactic you would ever need, apart from a little tweaking whenever the AI cracked it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's how it still is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

OK fair points but I ask this question. Do you think Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson change their tactics much, if at all? I dont think so. Man Utd always play attacking, possession football, as do Arsenal, whether they are at home or away. That's because football is not so much about the tactics (most teams play 4 4 2 or a variation on that theme). The real crux of the matter is the psychology and motivation. I think SI are getting there in terms of the motivation side of things but I think they have made the tactics engine too random, and in my opinion its a major step back from older versions and the main reason why FM frustrates rathr than entertains me these days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

these managers are always switching their tactics. do you think benitez plays the same style when playing manutd as he does when playing reading? different players with different threats

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tubbycrabs:

The main problem I have with FM is that it's just not intuitive enough.

For example:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Your star striker suddenly has a dip in form, and there's no feedback from the game as to why this has happened. You just have to constantly tweak tactics until he starts scoring again, not knowing if what you did worked, or he suddenly came out of his slump for no reason.

<LI> One of your players is unhappy at a bid for him being rejected. There's no information in the game to help you understand what can be done to make the player happy again. Especially a player with a 'Balanced' personality and several friends at the club.

<LI> You try to offload a Premiership standard player on average wages, and there's no club in THE ENTIRE WORLD that wants to take him off your hands. For free. There's no indication from the game as to why this is the case.

Stuff like that.

Pretty much 95% or so of the people currently playing FM are going to continue to do so, because it's such an excellent game. But there's always things that can be fixed, and I think that most of the people playing the game would rather see current problems addressed before new features are added. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

there can be feedback for lose of form.

look at his fitness. is he jaded or tired? that's feedback.

as one of your star midfielders got injured? the stats will tell you that th estirkers not getting the same sort of service.

that's feedback

and i'm not sure why you can't offload prem standrad players.

this is a few of my sales

1st season

antwi godwin = 170k

2nd season

beanyoun to betis = £3.9M

velthuisen to reading = £3M

fabio aurelio to westham = 1.9M

saviola to newcastle = 7.5M

reina to milan 16.25m

kewell to sunderland = 675k

riise to mancity = 10m

guthrie to westham for 2.7M

3rd season

arbeloa to spurs = 15.75m

pennant to blackburn = 5.25

skrtel to fiorentina = 4.9m

voronin to genoa = 1.3

alonso to valencia = 30m

hammill to wigan for 1.2m

stephen darby to ipswich for 160k

as you can see that's a wide variety of top quality players to squad rotation players to relatively poor qulaity players.

CM 01/02!

Genius.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They may not have the graphical polish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They never had, and still don't.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

OK fair points but I ask this question. Do you think Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson change their tactics much, if at all? I dont think so. Man Utd always play attacking, possession football, as do Arsenal, whether they are at home or away. That's because football is not so much about the tactics (most teams play 4 4 2 or a variation on that theme). The real crux of the matter is the psychology and motivation. I think SI are getting there in terms of the motivation side of things but I think they have made the tactics engine too random, and in my opinion its a major step back from older versions and the main reason why FM frustrates rathr than entertains me these days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously did not see Roma Vs. Man.Utd on tuesday night .Sir Alex changed his formation from 4-3-3 to4-4-2 mid way through the second half because Roma were getting forward alot down the wings

i dont normlly moan at other peoples posts, but this one i have to..

Ill explain what annoys me..

I wear glasses and not wearing them now.. i tried to read your post and started to get mixed up due to my eye site (Not wearing glasses now)

it would be great if people posted in paragraphs(sp) makes it much easier to read..

Ever feel like you're ?

It really should come naturally.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sweet-Zombie-Jesus:

Rafael Benitez changes his tactics every few season.

He went from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 and now he uses 4-2-3-1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And look where it has got him in the league

I totally agree with the OP even with the obnoxious long paragraph block. I think that in SI's quest to make the realistic game possible, they have made it too overly-complicated for the average user who doesn't want to spend a lot of time tweaking. I remember when I first got the 07 Demo, I had loads of fun with WBA with a slightly-modified starting 442 tactic. I won about as much as I should have besides from super keepers (sorry for digression but super keepers are the biggest problem that game had) and the games were realistic.

I have no idea how to create tactics now; whenever I try, it always fails miserably and the manual says what the sliders do, but they don't say how to use them. My players seem to disregard my instructions anyway. There's no way to tell them that sitting in your own box for 30 seconds and letting the AI steal is a BAD idea, not a good one.

In short, simplify the game for 09.

For those complaining about the lack of paragraphs:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

I have never been moved to write a forum post before, but I feel now is the time to express my growing disillusionment with the FM franchise.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think the FM series gets worse with every new iteration. Don't get me wrong, I like all the improvements and tweaks they have made to the series, I just feel with the relentless pursuit for 'realism' they have sucked all the life and fun out of the game.

With previous versions, you could find a tactic for your chosen team and in certain cases, it was the only tactic you would ever need, apart from a little tweaking whenever the AI cracked it. These days, there are so many variables that the whole thing just seems random and inconsistent. I dont think this is true to life.

Look at Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea. They all play pretty much the same formation week in and week out. Why? Because it's one thing knowing how Man U or Arsenal play and another to actually be good enough to stop them. That's what is so frustrating about FM now. I can patiently assemble a team of world beaters and then watch indifferent results kill my team all because there is no one universal 'super tactic' anymore, meaning I have to keep faffing about with tactics like some sort of deranged Ranieri.

Basically, I am just getting hacked off with seemingly random results and performances and not being allowed to have my team play the way I want, the way that I could with previous incarnations. Kinda makes me want to go back and dig out the old CM titles. They might not have the graphical polish or myriad of options but in my opinion they are infinitely more playable and enjoyable. After all, it's a game. And games are meant to be fun, so if that means realism is sacrificed for enjoyment, well thats a trade off I would rather see.

Sorry for the long post, just wondered if anyone feels the way I do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a good post, I wouldn't want to see it dismissed for typographical issues!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sir_Liam:

Tactically I don't think the game is anywhere near as hard as a lot of people make out. A lot of it is fairly obvious and doesn't take the "hours of tweaking" that some suggest you need. It generally takes me a maximum of 5 minutes to create a tactic for my team when I start a new game, with slight tweaks always occuring as I advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're better at the game than me then. Don't mean to sound sarky, but if you can do that in 5 minutes, then you're a better player than me and lots of other people on here I'll wager.

I've taken advice from people on here, read numerous threads in the tactics forum, but I still can't assemble a set of good tactics that I could use for each situation (eg one for when I'm chasing the game, one for when I'm playing a big team etc).

I've tried watching it on full match highlights to try and spot where my tactic is falling down, but it just seems like other players are better than mine and I can't figure it out.

I've no indication of why my players aren't doing what I want them to do and it's very frustrating.

And cutting it down to 5 minutes is something else entirely.

Perhaps Liam means he only takes 5 minutes to decide on say the formation, and then the tweaking goes from there. I can't say I sit for hours pondering where to have a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-1, it only takes a few minutes and then from that initial preference you create a tactic.

it's defenetly something random going on in the game. but that's all I agree with OP. do we want a game where you could win with minimal effort. that's not chalanging. so it meens there can't be one-tactic-suits-them-all thing.

what I would want is to be even more tactical details as there is nothing more satisfing for me in this game, then watching my matches and hopefully win them. so tactics are important and they need to be one of the most important parts of the game.

but at the same time it would be nice to see players being smarter so we don't need to tell them every stupid detail -> tweak. the game has moved on from CM01 (maybe not as much as we would like) and constant shouting for game being easier is ridicoulus. this is supposed to be a football simulation. I agree tactical interface should be clearer and give us more real life options, world class players should act like ones, football styles need to be more obvious ...but I really wouldn't like this game to become buy,pick'n'play again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sorrenmills:

I have never been moved to write a forum post before, but I feel now is the time to express my growing disillusionment with the FM franchise. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think the FM series gets worse with every new iteration. Don't get me wrong, I like all the improvements and tweaks they have made to the series, I just feel with the relentless pursuit for 'realism' they have sucked all the life and fun out of the game. With previous versions, you could find a tactic for your chosen team and in certain cases, it was the only tactic you would ever need, apart from a little tweaking whenever the AI cracked it. These days, there are so many variables that the whole thing just seems random and inconsistent. I dont think this is true to life. Look at Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea. They all play pretty much the same formation week in and week out. Why? Because it's one thing knowing how Man U or Arsenal play and another to actually be good enough to stop them. That's what is so frustrating about FM now. I can patiently assemble a team of world beaters and then watch indifferent results kill my team all because there is no one universal 'super tactic' anymore, meaning I have to keep faffing about with tactics like some sort of deranged Ranieri. Basically, I am just getting hacked off with seemingly random results and performances and not being allowed to have my team play the way I want, the way that I could with previous incarnations. Kinda makes me want to go back and dig out the old CM titles. They might not have the graphical polish or myriad of options but in my opinion they are infinitely more playable and enjoyable. After all, it's a game. And games are meant to be fun, so if that means realism is sacrificed for enjoyment, well thats a trade off I would rather see. Sorry for the long post, just wondered if anyone feels the way I do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats exactly how I feel right now!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tubbycrabs:

The main problem I have with FM is that it's just not intuitive enough.

For example:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Your star striker suddenly has a dip in form, and there's no feedback from the game as to why this has happened. You just have to constantly tweak tactics until he starts scoring again, not knowing if what you did worked, or he suddenly came out of his slump for no reason.

<LI> One of your players is unhappy at a bid for him being rejected. There's no information in the game to help you understand what can be done to make the player happy again. Especially a player with a 'Balanced' personality and several friends at the club.

<LI> You try to offload a Premiership standard player on average wages, and there's no club in THE ENTIRE WORLD that wants to take him off your hands. For free. There's no indication from the game as to why this is the case.

Stuff like that.

Pretty much 95% or so of the people currently playing FM are going to continue to do so, because it's such an excellent game. But there's always things that can be fixed, and I think that most of the people playing the game would rather see current problems addressed before new features are added. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially the third point! There is pretty much a club for every player out there, in real life. I doubt there is a player in the prem, who couldnt find a club at some sort of level!

Agree with all- tactics are a mess, far too many possible permutations, and a real lack of any effort from SI to improve this area.

Instead they improve the AI every release and seem to have scant regard for the mugs who actually pay for the game.

FM isnt improving year on year enough to be more than an update- as neither are there exciting or fully formed new features, or genuine fixes or improvements to long standing flaws.

Yes FM is a simulation but SI seem to have forgotten, dont realise or simply dont care that it is also a game and is at times a chore to play.

Since CM4 was released the progress in the subsequent 5 releases is not impressive one bit.

Like others have said, surely the absence of a super tactic is very good?

Having said that, I tend to stick to some very simple tactics, e.g. 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 with any one team, depending on the players I have. And then slightly tweak depending on opposition/players. It works fairly well. I am certainly no tactical genius and I'm sure you could improve on this. But is this not exactly how the game should be? If you're really good at tactics you should perform really well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Agree with all- tactics are a mess, far too many possible permutations, and a real lack of any effort from SI to improve this area.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? I strongly disagree! The sliders make for a very intuitive and basic tactical tool. Sometimes even too basic! Really, it doesn't take that much to set up a decent tactic. A good tactic... that's something else, but as I said, that is exactly how it should be! Both in real life and in a game. Better managers and better gamers should have an advantage!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fmj:

Like others have said, surely the absence of a super tactic is very good?

Having said that, I tend to stick to some very simple tactics, e.g. 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 with any one team, depending on the players I have. And then slightly tweak depending on opposition/players. It works fairly well. I am certainly no tactical genius and I'm sure you could improve on this. But is this not exactly how the game should be? If you're really good at tactics you should perform really well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Agree with all- tactics are a mess, far too many possible permutations, and a real lack of any effort from SI to improve this area.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What? I strongly disagree! The sliders make for a very intuitive and basic tactical tool. Sometimes even too basic! Really, it doesn't take that much to set up a decent tactic. A good tactic... that's something else, but as I said, that is exactly how it should be! Both in real life and in a game. Better managers and better gamers should have an advantage! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sliders are intuitive to use, but that doesnt mean their effects are easy to understand.

After all if they were that basic then there wouldnt be discussions over what certain sliders actually do in the T&T forums would there?

Its nothing to do with being better as you could take a real life football manager and because the interface is so poor he would struggle.

Take defensive line for example- a real life manager will be able to show where he wants it on the pitch or on a tactics board. Yet we have to work out where the slider applies itself on the pitch- when SI could just allow us to see it on the pitch graphicly, rather than guess.

So really a real life manager would struggle, as the interface is a barrier and not a conduit- hence the discussions we see in T&T.

It is definatly much harder to make a tactic in this game then IRL. One very good exsample i sthe 3-5-2 formation. In FM it's REALLY hard to have any success with that yet IRL lots of teams (Usually supposedly underdogs) have great success with it. This is mostly because of lack of instructions you can give players. I'm all for what Einstein said (Yes THE Albert Einstein) everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

I would suggest to anyon strugging with tactic, just use common sense when you think of a tactic and consider your own squads strengths and weaknesses, it will take you a long way.

Then just make a few variables to your tactic for different kinds of oppsition and you got it sorted. It might look like a huge job when your on the tactic screen with all the sliders and boxes but it really isn't that bad. (Just for the record, I also suffered from "sliderofobia" in the beginning.)

Good point! I think FM wants you to win more pragmatically. This means weaker teams can beat better teams (and more often) by playing long balls, and defending really deep. I found it hard to score goals when your teams has 20 shots, and then to lose the game when the opposition punts a long ball through your two defenders.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rekluse:

I think the game has improved and gotten much better in all aspects, except taken a backwards step in tactics and match engine for FM08. Unfortunately those are 2 things that are very important and effect nearly every other aspect of the game.

I believe the fact that even with glaring problems, people are still playing FM08 over FM07 which means the other features have improved enough to not go back to previous versions (although some people have).

I believe they need to really work on the match engine for FM09 and completely trash the current tactics system and come up with something that is more realistic and that caters to both people who love to tinker with many options in tactics but are also easier for people who don't like to do so to just put up a preset tactic and still perform reasonable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm playing 07. Can't bare 08.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

Agree with all- tactics are a mess, far too many possible permutations, and a real lack of any effort from SI to improve this area.

Instead they improve the AI every release and seem to have scant regard for the mugs who actually pay for the game.

FM isnt improving year on year enough to be more than an update- as neither are there exciting or fully formed new features, or genuine fixes or improvements to long standing flaws.

Yes FM is a simulation but SI seem to have forgotten, dont realise or simply dont care that it is also a game and is at times a chore to play.

Since CM4 was released the progress in the subsequent 5 releases is not impressive one bit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with all that, and I think the number of these type of threads on the forums (here and in tactical) shows quite a few others feel the same too.

I don't think the game is bad, but the next FM's need to focus more on entertaining the player, instead of just throwing them into a simulation.

I read an interview a while ago with a developer (can't for the life of me remember who) that basically said, "whenever fun and realism cross, fun should always win." I think it applies to FM in a lot of ways.

If u don't want a realistic football game buy FIFA Manager or Championship Manager.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sweet-Zombie-Jesus:

If u don't want a realistic football game buy FIFA Manager or Championship Manager. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Way to miss the point.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sweet-Zombie-Jesus:

If u don't want a realistic football game buy FIFA Manager or Championship Manager. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The tactics engine makes it so that the only way you can win consistently is unrealistically.

In all honesty, i have to say that i have seen some really good improvements in ME in regards to 07.

The problem is that i cannot judge them fully, due to some other problems that arised in this edition.

Small deviation from correct tactic that will make you pay dearly and general overscoring for at least 30% more then IRL ,in addition to corner/DFK issue are making whole picture unclear.Offsides are sore point to.

I never seen so many 3+ goals scored by one player in game, like in this edition.

I don't want to even to start about registration bug not being fixed even after 2 and 1/2 patches, but hey i guess as long it doesn't affect "precious" British leagues , it's not an issue for them.

I do know that now i started to read carefully scout reports on opponents, because thats only way that i can setup my tactics correctly. But thats why they are there for anyways.

Overall, i found it way easier to win in 08 then in 07, but total amounts of goals in game(mostly in lower leagues), not my matches but whole game is really putting me off.

I am not using any exploits or "magic" tactics btw.

As a conclusion , i would say that SI should spent more time working on cleaning these problems for 09, instead of getting new "features" that will most likely add to raising list of problems

Look I know its been said before but teams may by and large stick to a formtion.

Tactics however get changed frequently duruing games.

If your winning with 10 mins to go in real life you might keep the same shape but drop back a bit for example To suggest fergie just sends his team out each match without some game plan is absurd.

I hated the old cm games click and go 1 formation win all.

By the way I have an old versiuon of Lma 05 which you might like.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badbaz:

Look I know its been said before but teams may by and large stick to a formtion.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I do anyway. Sure, the only thing I "won" so far was a promotional spot from German tier 4 to 3 - I actually finished 1st. But since FM is a time consuming game if you really want to get into it, I haven't played a heck of a lot of seasons so far. Also, this is my first FM ever.

I think that the bulk of the apparent issues that get talked about on these forums are brought up by players who rush through "highlights only", stick to a tactics they may or not may have downloaded somewhere from the interweb (probably even offered as one_fits_it_all.*), and never really take a look at what is actually going on on the pitch, then wondering why they loose games they thing they shouldn't have lost.

Still, with all this talk about tactics it's very well worth pointint out that all your decisions just *influence* a possible outcome of a game. You will never ever gain a full grip on anything.

Defo agree on the transparency issue (or lack thereof) though. The manual doesn't cover all that much when it comes to actuall football, the meat of the game that FM is trying to simulate in great detail, and the tactical interface with it's sliders that can be moved into 20(!) positions each isn't quite as self-descriptive as SI apparently think it would be.

I'm defenetly not a SI lawer (those who read my posts will know) but all this slider-apathy is ridicoulus to me. sliders can't be changed!!! even if there's only 3 notches (short, mixed, direct), they're still sliders. isn't it better to have more options? what could possibly change sliders? maybe SI could try to make a feature that reads our minds. I'm all for it.

team instruction sliders are quite OK, IMO. we need more specific player instructions, which would be more compareable to real life and clearer to understand. so we would actually give those specific instructions and not need to make slider combinations that are limited.

I have this thread about more specific player instructions, but nobody seems to be interested in putting some opinoum. here's the link: http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/7392005293 if anybody's interested.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spanky:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sir_Liam:

Tactically I don't think the game is anywhere near as hard as a lot of people make out. A lot of it is fairly obvious and doesn't take the "hours of tweaking" that some suggest you need. It generally takes me a maximum of 5 minutes to create a tactic for my team when I start a new game, with slight tweaks always occuring as I advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're better at the game than me then. Don't mean to sound sarky, but if you can do that in 5 minutes, then you're a better player than me and lots of other people on here I'll wager.

I've taken advice from people on here, read numerous threads in the tactics forum, but I still can't assemble a set of good tactics that I could use for each situation (eg one for when I'm chasing the game, one for when I'm playing a big team etc).

I've tried watching it on full match highlights to try and spot where my tactic is falling down, but it just seems like other players are better than mine and I can't figure it out.

I've no indication of why my players aren't doing what I want them to do and it's very frustrating.

And cutting it down to 5 minutes is something else entirely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

to be honest it doesn't take hours for me either.

as liam says it takes 5-10 mins to set up a basic shell of a formation and position tactics and then you slowly tweak it through the first 1/4 of a season untill you've got a tactic that works well.

i have only done slight tweaks to my tactics since i created it with cm4

To be honest I have been struggling for the last 2 months to truly get my head around it. Now i am not really one for downloading tactics, but i could not get any consistency with any of mine. Thats is until i read the thread below...

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/3232045283

It is a true eye opener! Read every comment by Rashidi (Sorry if i spelt your name wrong). Really explains what every thing does and gives reccomendations. After reading that thread I have just won the Euro cup and the French cup with RC Lens in France, and came second to Lyon in the league! All down to that thread.