My couple of thoughts on FM

I've been playing FM for the last 6 years or so. I've bought every version of the game since 2006, and over that time, I've been happy to see the game improve year to year. I think it's a great game and I definitely will be the next version of it when it is released. However, like with most people, I feel that there are ways in which it doesn't simulate real football. I'm not sure if there are solutions to these issue; the game may be more fun and more playable without making any changes.

The first issue for me is having visible player attributes. As a real life football fan, I often have arguments with my friends about the various attributes of different players. Who is a better finisher: Fernando Torres or Demba Ba? Who has a better long shot: Paul Scholes or Steven Gerrard? Who is better at marking: Chris Smalling or Phil Jones? These are all questions where in real life we could have a debate over who is better, but when I am trying to decide who to sign or play on FM, the game tells me who is better at every aspect of the game. A large part of being a successful football manager in real life is recognizing the talents and abilities of players, but on FM the game does this for us. I don't know if there is a good way around this issue on the game, but it is one way in which the game largely differs from real life.

Another issue I have with the game is regading potential ability. However, my complaint about PA isn't the same one that most people seem to have on here. I think the current system of every player having a set (or almost set) PA is fine. For me, the issue is that there is a visible measure of a player's potential rating anywhere on the game. I am, of course, talking about the assistant coach/scout's star rating of a player's potential. I think this is unrealistic and makes the game too easy. In real life, if I have two young players with similar attributes, I won't know which of them has more potential. However, on FM, if I have two "one star" players on my u-18 team, my scout can tell me that one of them has five stars of potential and the other only one and a half, even though they're equally good right now. I think this is very unrealistic, there is no way to tell which of the boys has more potential. Certainly if we know some of the players' attributes (determination, physical abilities, etc.) and their history of growth, we can try to extraoplate how they will progress to the senior level, but having a scout who can tell us which of two teenagers with the same current skill set will grow into a world beater seems wrong.

Anyway, those are a couple of issues with FM I've been thinking about lately. I don't know if there's a good way to "solve" them, but I think they are areas of the game that could be portrayed more realistically.

There are skins that allow you to play with attributes masked.

The 3D is nowhere near good enough (and in all likelihood never will be - not through any fault of SI) to be able to mask all attributes and still be able to grasp any intricate strengths and weaknesses the way a real life manager can with his squad.

To be honest I don't agree that it's wrong that the game shows you which players are better in what areas to a certain extent. To me, the attributes you see represent the knowledge you and your backroom staff have on a certain player. There's certainly room for better ways of doing this (i.e. blur attributes, a range of attributes for unknown players, etc.) but a numeric scale is a good way of representing ability differences. Without it, comparing players in your own squad becomes tedious and difficult. Fergie doesn't have to rack his brains to compare his players' crossing abilities - he just knows - and a numeric scale is a good way of representing it.

I definitely will be the next version of it when it is released.

You heard it here first.

As to your point about player attributes, I have to agree with x42bn6 (for once) as the numeric values represent the attributes because there is no other way for us to tell. Real managers go out on the training ground with their players and judge for themselves, we are not able to do this and the graphical representation of the match engine isn't sophisticated enough to allow us to judge for ourselves anyway.

Also it would be a painstaking process to have to watch players running around to judge who is faster. Remember that this is a full time job for real life managers along with their coaches and scouts. For most of us it's just a hobby and I wouldn't play the game if there were no attributes.

yup.. similarly I agree with those two...

While i can see what the OP is saying, as i'm sure most of us can, the nature of the game is that numerical attributes is the only way to show this properly...

This sort of thing is being brought up more and more on here now as people want a better or more realsitc fog of war. My personal favorite would be a progressive revelation of an attribute range and an eventual narrowing down of their accuracy the more you scout a player or watch him play in 3D/2D. Of course there are those who'll say this isn't at all realsitic for a player like Messi, whose main attributes are pretty well known (and I'm not talking numeric attributes! ), so having to scout him is plain silly. But as a game where people play at all different levels, not just as manager of Barcelona, and more importantly as an option in preferences, it would offer a new way of playing FM. At the moment we only have one of two extremes, either play with attributes handed to you on a silver plate thanks to an all telling panel, or we can modify a skin to hide those panels completely. So a middle-ground would be ideal, and with more people asking for a better challenge from FM, especially this year, its an idea SI should look at since things like this will add some extra challenge without the need of skill levels.

You may find this post interesting...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/286772-Can-you-actually-turn-off-the-attribute-panel?p=7342961&viewfull=1#post7342961

It has links to a couple of files that'll mask all visible attributes on your game if you're using a custom skin. Its not an ideal solution to what you're looking for but it'll add a new level of challenge to your game and make hands on scouting via 3D a meaningful exercise once you get used to it. Although its a bit of a daunting prospect when you first start playing with full fog of war, its gets easier and you'll learn a lot more about the game (especiallly the 3D match, and judging a players strengths and weaknesses via it) the more you stick with it. Obviously there are some aspects you'll never be able to judge within the current ME just by watching players, but as the ME improves hopefully those things will become more obvious.

Playing blind to attributes won't stop you eventually dominating the game, it'll just take you longer, but from a personal point of view any success you do achieve will feel much more rewarding since it would have been gained by buidling a team mainly down to your own assessment of playing staff you've watched play, rather than whats been handed to you on an attribute panel. As for PA stars, unfortuantely they remain visible (at least on my skin) so there's little that can be done to avoid seeing those.

Incidently those attribute hiding files have been downloaded from that site and the previous site I hosted them on nearly 1000 times now, so if that is anything to go by it shows you you're not alone in your thinking in regards to the way FM handles visible player attributes.

To answer the OP's all important questions... Ba by far, Gerrard by a whisker, Smalling despite the calamity attempt at marking Kompany the other night.

To answer the OP's all important questions... Ba by far' date=' Gerrard by a whisker, Smalling despite the calamity attempt at marking Kompany the other night.

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I disagree, Ba's recent form doesn't show him as a great finisher, he's been fairly ineffective since the turn of the year if you ask me. Wasn't fantastic at West Ham, So the beginning of this season was his only real consistent finishing. If I managed a team were my strikers were Torres and Ba. I'd prefer the chance fell to Torres.

Gerrard and Scholes is admittedly tight. The edge of the area volley or first time shot goes to Scholes, the piledriver is Gerrard's

I wouldn't trust Smalling as far as I can throw him at the back, very dodgy and inconsistent.

A manager IRL can see the players in training,he can see who's faster,who can shoot better and every aspect of a player,and after a while wot standard he can reach,if he does not impress in training he's out,his coaches will also have an opinion,as a fan you dont see anything of that,so the game is ok as is!

Other people have already addressed the numeric attributes issue, but I want to address one sentence:

A large part of being a successful football manager in real life is recognizing the talents and abilities of players, but on FM the game does this for us.

Other than that, I have no problems with attributes being invisible, but it should be an option. The first football management sim I played was FIFA Manager 06 and, without realizing it, I played with the numeric attributes off so I had to rely heavily on scouting and on the little attribute circle things (what are they called anyway? Brain fart).

Sure, the game does give you the attributes, but as a manager it's up to you to decide what to do with those attributes. For example, if I am in a cup final that looks like it's going to penalties, I may sub in a player with a higher penalty taking attribute than a player who is overall better at that position. You can look at the players' attributes and decide "do I want to use this guy as a ball-playing DC or a limited defender?" When looking to buy a striker, you ask yourself "does my team need a target man or a poacher?" Of course numeric attributes aren't totally realistic, but given the limitations of this being a game, it does make sense. Keep in mind as well that there are hidden attributes that we cannot see, and those can sometimes make or break seemingly fantastic looking players.

Another issue I have with the game is regading potential ability. However, my complaint about PA isn't the same one that most people seem to have on here. I think the current system of every player having a set (or almost set) PA is fine. For me, the issue is that there is a visible measure of a player's potential rating anywhere on the game. I am, of course, talking about the assistant coach/scout's star rating of a player's potential. I think this is unrealistic and makes the game too easy. In real life, if I have two young players with similar attributes, I won't know which of them has more potential. However, on FM, if I have two "one star" players on my u-18 team, my scout can tell me that one of them has five stars of potential and the other only one and a half, even though they're equally good right now. I think this is very unrealistic, there is no way to tell which of the boys has more potential. Certainly if we know some of the players' attributes (determination, physical abilities, etc.) and their history of growth, we can try to extraoplate how they will progress to the senior level, but having a scout who can tell us which of two teenagers with the same current skill set will grow into a world beater seems wrong.

Actually, I am fairly certain that the scouts are not 100% accurate when determining their star ratings. I have had scouts with excellent attributes tell me one player is 2.5 stars PA in his first season after being generated, only to see him rated at 3.5 the next season even though my squad has hardly changed. I have also seen players with a PA of 4 stars never reach their potential and be pushed out of my team for a kid who was once a 3 star prospect but just happened to develop better.

Besides, the star rating is not unrealistic, it is just a simple representation of a scouting report. Would you rather read pages and pages of reports from your scouts and/or watch lots of video before signing a player as a real manager does? Keep in mind, you are paying for the game, the game does not pay you- this should not be a chore.

I would imagine that the game would get overly tedious if a full fog of war is used...in that circumstance, we would have to scout every player ourselves and this makes it very time-consuming. More time spent on FM, on top of what's already a significantly addictive game.

I agree with what x42bn6 said - that you are able to see a player's attributes because you (as the in-game manager) and/or your scouts have existing 'knowledge' of that player. If you search for players who are from countries that your 'managerial self' have no knowledge of, then most if not all attributes will be masked (until you scout him, of course). So, I think the current system works fine.

I don't think people appreciate the extent to which two players with quite similar attributes can differ. For eg. I have a fantastic goal poacher right now. How do I replace him in a couple years though? Do I look for a player who somehow matches him exactly? And pay whatever it costs to get him? Do I look for a youth who could play at a similar level and hope for the best? What about getting someone even better? Maybe a striker with better composure, off the ball and first touch is better than a striker with better strength, work rate and finishing?

Personally, I love the complexity, and when I scout a kid who has fantastic potential and a great personality I try to bring him in right away. When AI comes in with 20 bids over 3 or 4 years they are instantly rejected. Basically, IMO, the game asks you to choose your favorite 'attribute combinations' for each position, 'rewards' you accordingly.