TACTICS - Your Own Tactics - Or Other peoples tactics?

Personally i would rate my football knowledge really high when it comes to players and how to actually play the game etc. However I can't seem to get my own tactics to work quite as good as other peoples. For example I am a big fan of the 4-1-3-2 (from the old days of CM) and always had great success. However in my teams I always seem to struggle with what ever tactics I make.

I then go and use for example Mr Houghs tactics with the exact same team etc and then win the league easily.

Whats the trick? Where am I going wrong? Do you lot find yourselves using your own custom built tactics or do you prefer to scout the forums and use other peoples? What works best a tactic made via the tactics wizard or the tactics made in the old fashioned slider way?

I don't know. I'm no tactics guru but what ever people such as Mr Hough, FuSS, Knap etc these guys always make really good tactics. How in the world is it done. I suppose this thread is more than the title actually asks but I wanted other peoples views on it to try and stop me going insane.

My own.

I realize my team could potentially score 4 goals a game if I used a supertactic, but if that supertactic isn't derived by me, what exactly have I achieved? Selecting the starting XI? Being in charge of transfers? I am then basically just team psychologist, there to keep morale up

Averaging just over 3 goals a game is 'enough', but if with my own tweaks and modifications I get that up to 3.5, or 4 that would be fantastic. But using corner exploits or ME weaknesses, or even something that doesn't jive with how I want my team to play (I don't like a high defensive line, I don't like a lone striker...), no thanks.

Probably it is a case of deciding your tactics not based on what shape you want to play, but based on how the opposition is likely to line up. Could be a lot of teams expect you to line up 4-1-3-2 and then plug the middle, and attack you down the flanks? I like a 4-4-2 with an advanced winger on one side, but for teams that line up 4-1-2-1-2 against me (it happens A LOT now, guessing AI figures its my weakness) I sacrifice a winger and stick him in the hole between midfield and defence. I haven't even looked at a supertactic since atleast FM10, so I can't say what makes them so good, but usually there is some ME exploitation going on.

When it comes to this debate I find myself firmly on the fence. Personally, I do prefer to create and use my own tactic nowadays but I have been known to use downloaded tactics in the past. Acheivements definitely feel better when using my own tactic. However, when people say that 'supertactics' are just exploiting flaws in the match engine I get frustrated. This game is a management simulation and, as managers, we have to create (or download) a tactic that suits the players we have at our disposal but also is good enough to beat the opposition. Surely, in real life, a manager is trying to exploit weaknesses in the opposition as well as play on the strengths of his own team, just as we as simulated managers are trying to exploit weaknesses (wherever they may be) and play to our strengths in order to win more games than we lose. So, really, what's the difference?

The beauty of this game though is that it is entirely up to the individual to decide how he or she wants to play. Some like to download tactics, some like to go straight in to manage Barcelona, some like lower league management, some start unemployed, some like to use third party in-game editors, some like to reload if they lose. There are plenty who are not tactical masters so downloadable tactics are a godsend. Therefore, as it's an entirely objective choice how you play the game, I believe it's wrong when players are chastised for downloading tactics or doing any of the things listed above. Just play and enjoy, however you choose to do so.

My own. I find it much more rewarding. Currently working on a 3-2-1-2-2 formation, working a treat. Conceded 4 in 18 games, using 1 CB, 2 FB's

I create my own. I don't even save them properly and when I start a save I build again from scratch. I use the creator so it takes about two minutes to set my base tactic. It is obviously more satisfying to create your own but I remember when I first started playing FM a few years ago and I was bit bamboozeled like the OP. I downloaded a couple of the most popular tactics on here and looked through all the settings to help me understand what I was doing wrong. I actually found these forums with a google search for FM tactics.

I don't like the old classic tactics at all, possibly because I am pretty new the game and the creator is easier to understand.

I always make my own, but I might have a look at others for ideas. I think of it as like a player who has gone into management borrowing ideas from the managers they played under.

Its not my wish to chastise any one, esp. not for using editors or reloading, or using another's tactics, as I have done all of the above at some point over the years playing FM. I am a 'convert' if you will, but not in a holier than thou kind of way

Exploiting a weakness in the opposition is different than exploiting a match engine weakness, IMO. One works all the time, regardless of the opposition (ME exploit), the other varies in effectiveness depending on player motivation, tactics, weather conditions, etc (opponent's weaknesses, own team's strengths).

I found scoring goal after goal from just outside the box on corners stale after a period. I can identify though, because there have been times when I just felt despite good set piece instructions and good set piece takers (and focus on attacking set pieces) I wasn't converting any where near enough of my set pieces, and considered it a problem with the match engine making corners and set pieces too difficult to score from.

However, when people say that 'supertactics' are just exploiting flaws in the match engine I get frustrated. This game is a management simulation and, as managers, we have to create (or download) a tactic that suits the players we have at our disposal but also is good enough to beat the opposition. Surely, in real life, a manager is trying to exploit weaknesses in the opposition as well as play on the strengths of his own team, just as we as simulated managers are trying to exploit weaknesses (wherever they may be) and play to our strengths in order to win more games than we lose. So, really, what's the difference?

I alway use my own, downloading and using someone elses would feel like cheating. The same goes for training schedules.

Sure I have read stuff on the forum so I can learn things, and then implemented the ideals them into my tactics. But never have I used anyone elses tactics.

My own , I dont know where to put or download any tactics

Downloading tactics and studying them kind of help you understand how the slider mechanics work and what exactly affects what, once you get the hang of how things work, you can start tinkering and try to come up with your own tactics.

I haven't been able to watch a game of football in years since my gf hates football, but I heared a lot about Barcelona's recent tici taca style of play, I downloaded a tici taca tactic, and try to implement what I learned from that, I must say ocasionally when playing with full match coverage, you can wonderfull exhibitions of beautifull football

My own, always. Sometimes they are horrid. You learn. If you download someone else's tactics, you never learn, and inevitably, when form goes south you have no idea what to do except try to change personnel or download yet another person's tactics. While I agree it sucks to lose games and get relegated, not creating tactics seems to me to be missing one of the larger points of the game.

I like to use my own tactics as they are developed for my own players strengths and weakness. Some good reads on how others develop and plan strategies in the TT forums though. Always a good read.

I always use my own tactic.

I keep trying to use my own, but always fail miserably. I never played the sport in my life, and only really started watching it on TV (when it is even on) a few years ago... They tend to dumb down the commentary for us Americans, so even watching it really does not help me understand alot of the terminology and strategies used in FM even really mean, or what works with what... So for me, making my own is mostly guess work. Due to that, I ultimately always end up using someone else's.

I always use my own tactic.

.

doesnt feel right if I use other peoples tactics.

My own.

If I use a downloaded tactic it feels as I'm cheating. What's the merit of winning trophies if you're not the one who's telling the team how to play??

My own.

If I use a downloaded tactic it feels as I'm cheating. What's the merit of winning trophies if you're not the one who's telling the team how to play??

My thoughts exactly.

My own, always. Sometimes they are horrid. You learn. If you download someone else's tactics, you never learn, and inevitably, when form goes south you have no idea what to do except try to change personnel or download yet another person's tactics.

Sorry but that's rubbish. I've learnt a lot from using other tactics when trying to understand what works due to mine always failing at the time.

Sorry but that's rubbish. I've learnt a lot from using other tactics when trying to understand what works due to mine always failing at the time.[/QUOT

Great for you that you can learn from downloaded tactics. I never could, because my team was never the same as the tactic creators. Perhaps I should have said much harder to learn.

My own. I've been using the same tactic since FM06 and it's never failed me before. It's worked even better in this year's FM though, I managed to score 140 league goals and only concede 16 league goals in a season once.

:)I've always used my own tactics/formation on every FM,no shouts either,they just go out and play,i've also scored more goals in this years FM,1 in a hundred free kicks though lol

:)I've always used my own tactics/formation on every FM,no shouts either,they just go out and play,i've also scored more goals in this years FM,1 in a hundred free kicks though lol

Without using the shouts you are only using the tactics creator to half of it's potential.

My own tactics.

Like OP, I consider my tactical knowledge to be well above the average for a football fan (I have, after all, had about 2 years of education in the subject), and thus, managing to succeed with your own ideology is much more satisfying. I tend to adapt the formation a little according to which key players the squad has, although there are three tactics I will always prefer: a 4-2-3-1 with wingers, a 4-1-4-1 with an anchor, wide midfielders and amc's, or a simple 4-5-1 for defensive stability. I'm a big fan of having versatile players, and as such I will often look to retrain them into new positions that fit more closely with my needs. Additionally, this also adds more breadth to the squad.

Lastly, I will look to build a team with a high level of determination and creativity. My preferred run of play gets more similar to Total Football the further into the attack you get, so it is necessary for every player to be able to create something. I am also not interested in players with low determination, as 1) Similar personalities make for better football, 2) They will want to make the opposition spit blood regardless of being two goals down.

Tiki-taka/total football is not the most effective tactic on FM, but it's highly attractive and what I aspire to do with any team, even bottom feeders.

Tiki-taka/total football is not the most effective tactic on FM, but it's highly attractive and what I aspire to do with any team, even bottom feeders.

It can be very effective actually, but it is important to get the right players for that style of play. I.E. you don't want mant players who like dribbling the ball, (a couple is enough), or players with the "shoots from distance" PPM.

I always make my own, though I do download others successful to tactics to see how they are set up to try and improve my own.

It can be very effective actually, but it is important to get the right players for that style of play. I.E. you don't want mant players who like dribbling the ball, (a couple is enough), or players with the "shoots from distance" PPM.

Exactly. You need players that are good at these things, but smart enough to know when to use them. If executed properly, Total Football is not one pattern of play, but a hundred patterns of play executed randomly according to your players' decisions. Pretty hard to counter, that.

Lifting somebody elses tactics is cheating. End of story. A baby could win at FM doing that.

Downloading tactics and studying them kind of help you understand how the slider mechanics work and what exactly affects what, once you get the hang of how things work, you can start tinkering and try to come up with your own tactics.

I haven't been able to watch a game of football in years since my gf hates football, but I heared a lot about Barcelona's recent tici taca style of play, I downloaded a tici taca tactic, and try to implement what I learned from that, I must say ocasionally when playing with full match coverage, you can wonderfull exhibitions of beautifull football

Bro you need to put this chick in her place. She's your girlfriend not your slave master.

Bro you need to put this chick in her place. She's your girlfriend not your slave master.

Surely that remains to be proven.

Always my own. I used to download tactics but then it dawned on me that I was really only pressing continue for hours on end.

How do you guys find the time for your own tactics? I love creating my own but for them to work I need to watch most matches on at least extended highlights and dedicate a lot of focus and attention (more than I can spare). If I don't dedicate any time my tactics normally suck! With a wife and kids I just don't have time to spend hours on end playing with FM. Especially with a newborn! I only really get to play in the morning before I go to work -- this is not enough time to spend labouring over a tactic unfortunately :-/

Lifting somebody elses tactics is cheating. End of story. A baby could win at FM doing that.

Not true.

You can lift someone elses tactics so you can play a couple of games with them to understand how they work, and use the ideals of that tactic to create your own.

i always play with my own tactic since the first time i play fm or cm series. never been fond of downloading tactic esp in the old days where simply most of the called super tactic where quite strange in shape and form of real football. i never need those 'strange' 7-0 10-0 result because my definition of football as IRL is always get the result (win/draw) is enough

reading lot of old marc vaugn guide did the help for the basic. the rest simple by watching the game in 3d (mostly almost in fastest time though dont have the time anymore right now lol, except when early first hand, to try and learn basic stuff), reading stuff from tactical board (the sticky there quite helpful), and offc watching real football match for extra hindsight.other stuff perhaps by playing other video game (football ofc) from there is always been KISS and more to tweaked in game/match rather than total reshape

Ive always used my own, ive never even looked at another tactic, mainly because i didnt start using these forums until a couple of years ago and ive never felt the need to. My preferred formation is a 4-2-4 with AMR/L, however i always change it depending on what players i've got, and then keep that formation for as long as im at the club (bring in players to fit the mold). However like i say although 4-2-4 is my fave, i change it. I've played:

Ajax: 4-1-3-2 (3amc)

Athletic: 4-1-3-2 (1 dm, 2 wide midfielders)

Brazil: 4-2-2-2

Billericay: 4-4-1-1 (now 4-4-2)

Lazio: 4-1-2-1-2

The only thing that is a constant in all my formations is my philosophy, i always play fluid, direct, attacking football at a high pace. Im not too bothered about pretty football, i just want to score a lot of goals, and generally i have 2 or 3 veyr creative players to make it look pretty anyway. The ajax side being possibly one of the bets ive constructed using mainly youth products, easily scores 4 or 5 a game. the only exception to this is Brazil where i play controlled football with the middle of the pitch dominated and look to break quickly (Much like Brazil in real life) the reason for this being i still have yet to win an international competition on Fm12 and did terribly in the Copa America, so i decided for something different. Since switching we havnt conceded in 6 games and have allowed only 2 shots on target.

I think people tend to overcomplicate tactics. Its not that complicated, IMO, but I have spent a couple years pondering the subject

Football, its played on a field, 11 v 11, you try to put the ball in the goal. So your XI need to find out how to deny other teams goals. Simple, you want to put a lot of bodies between them and your goal, preferably two banks of four.

Now, the goal is only so wide, so on defense you don't need your four men stretched from touchline to touchline, if they are fairly close to each other they can actually work really well together, to deny space. But on offense, you are limiting the time (on the ball) and space your side has to play in by NOT using the full width of the pitch! This is why its so important for fullbacks to get forward, to have a winger hugging the touchline, strikers moving into channels (also known as space between the CB and fullback, or in behind the fullback).

That takes care of width. If your men are all parked in your half (or your own box), that means you have a 'deep line', you use it when trying to defend at all costs. You will concede most of the field, and most of the possession, but probably not give up that many good opportunities. If you have a high line your team plays higher up the field, leaving space in behind them, but making it more difficult for the opposition in their attacking build-up. You win the ball higher up the field, which can lead to your team exposing gaps and weaknesses. Pros and cons. If you defend deep, or with an average line, though, the added benefit is that there is space in behind THE OPPONENT's defense. If you have quick forwards it is much better to have them attack that space, than having them attack a team that is parked in their own box.

So a good tactic is just a coherent set of ideas, really Avoid extremes until you are comfortable with what it entails. Don't push high up the field and play very wide unless you are willing to concede a few goals as well as score them. Don't defend deep and then be surprised at how many opposition players are in your half, and that your short passing game is leading to costly turnovers (you have sucked them forward in order to attack in behind them, but are instead passing it short, so it is a strategy that necessarily benefits more from direct play).

The only issue is every tactic has one that can counter it in reality. Thats why the 4-4-2 was developed, and in turn the 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and so on.

no offense but how do FM players find it fun to just download tactics, drag players into the position and watch them play?

I always use my own tactics. I had okay success until FM10, when I finally managed to make one that could compete with the popular downloadable ones.

Basically, the goal of tactical creation in FM is to find a balanced setup that allows your team to play beyond their ability. There is a point when the advantage over the AI becomes so obvious that boredom settles in, though, so I don't use the "corner cheat" for instance. Also, games that aren't challenging aren't fun either, so some sort of realism must be intact. I think I have found just the right spot with the tactic I am using now. It allows me to focus on team building and player development, which I think is the best aspect of FM. The day FM becomes so realistic that everyone has to watch every single match in full and adjust everything all the time is the day I'd stop playing this series. Actually I think the whole idea of tactical micromanagement is unrealistic, since you won't have that much control over the players so I hope that SI realizes that and makes the game much more player-based than it is now... also tactically.

Personally, I have no problems with downloaded tactics. If you can't figure out how to get that "edge", the game becomes a time-consuming chore. Not everyone has the time to tweak for hours upon ends, or the patience to suffer losses in the meantime. Not everyone knows real life tactical theory, or how it is translated into the game, either. I think it is perfectly reasonable to download tactics, and it is also reasonable to feel that success tastes better when you make your own tactic. What is entirely unreasonable, though, is to try to diminish the feeling of achievement people who are downloading tactics experience when playing the game.

I always use my own. If I download a tactic why bother watching the games, just holiday the game as all I've done is pick the team. It doesn't take that long to create a tactic (does it?!) I personally enjoyed working on a new formation this year on FM and getting it to work well enough.

I know there's some tactics people download and its basically a super tactic, I don't see the point of that. Maybe someone can enlighten me? I did try out a super tactic on FM10 and got rid of it after 3 games and restarted as I felt like I had just pressed continue and I got the result

Downloading tactics and studying them kind of help you understand how the slider mechanics work and what exactly affects what, once you get the hang of how things work, you can start tinkering and try to come up with your own tactics.

I haven't been able to watch a game of football in years since my gf hates football, but I heared a lot about Barcelona's recent tici taca style of play, I downloaded a tici taca tactic, and try to implement what I learned from that, I must say ocasionally when playing with full match coverage, you can wonderfull exhibitions of beautifull football

Are you serious!? :confused:

A little bit of both I think

I usually take someone else's tactics and then tweak it to my needs. Though for FM12, where I could not use my old FM11 tactics, I just took some standard tactics, and tweaked them until they fit my designs. There is no real analysis in what I do (I have short attention span), so I tried a few tactics out in Pre-season and then just tinker with the roles and player settings, depending on the player playing in a specific position.

its all about the right balance....

balancing the mentality's of the players and the options nicely...

i always use my own tactics from scratch to cater for the team im playing with... although to learn way back a few years ago i used to download successful tactics and basically dissect them to see how they worked... best way of learning

I always use my own tactics, and have never downloaded someone else's tactic.

I don't have a set formation to use though and tend to switch between different shapes/instructions depending on the players at my disposal, and the circumstances my team is in. The only constant is a back 4.

no offense but how do FM players find it fun to just download tactics, drag players into the position and watch them play?

When you have a wife and kids and almost no time to play.

Personally i would rate my football knowledge really high when it comes to players and how to actually play the game etc. However I can't seem to get my own tactics to work quite as good as other peoples. For example I am a big fan of the 4-1-3-2 (from the old days of CM) and always had great success. However in my teams I always seem to struggle with what ever tactics I make.

I then go and use for example Mr Houghs tactics with the exact same team etc and then win the league easily.

Whats the trick? Where am I going wrong? Do you lot find yourselves using your own custom built tactics or do you prefer to scout the forums and use other peoples? What works best a tactic made via the tactics wizard or the tactics made in the old fashioned slider way?

I don't know. I'm no tactics guru but what ever people such as Mr Hough, FuSS, Knap etc these guys always make really good tactics. How in the world is it done. I suppose this thread is more than the title actually asks but I wanted other peoples views on it to try and stop me going insane.

Nobody can make their own ideas work as well anymore!

I always use my own tactics. I had okay success until FM10, when I finally managed to make one that could compete with the popular downloadable ones.

Basically, the goal of tactical creation in FM is to find a balanced setup that allows your team to play beyond their ability. There is a point when the advantage over the AI becomes so obvious that boredom settles in, though, so I don't use the "corner cheat" for instance. Also, games that aren't challenging aren't fun either, so some sort of realism must be intact. I think I have found just the right spot with the tactic I am using now. It allows me to focus on team building and player development, which I think is the best aspect of FM. The day FM becomes so realistic that everyone has to watch every single match in full and adjust everything all the time is the day I'd stop playing this series. Actually I think the whole idea of tactical micromanagement is unrealistic, since you won't have that much control over the players so I hope that SI realizes that and makes the game much more player-based than it is now... also tactically.

Personally, I have no problems with downloaded tactics. If you can't figure out how to get that "edge", the game becomes a time-consuming chore. Not everyone has the time to tweak for hours upon ends, or the patience to suffer losses in the meantime. Not everyone knows real life tactical theory, or how it is translated into the game, either. I think it is perfectly reasonable to download tactics, and it is also reasonable to feel that success tastes better when you make your own tactic. What is entirely unreasonable, though, is to try to diminish the feeling of achievement people who are downloading tactics experience when playing the game.

Well said. Just downloading tactics doesn't automatically win you the games anyway i find, there's always other stuff you have to do.

Not true.

You can lift someone elses tactics so you can play a couple of games with them to understand how they work, and use the ideals of that tactic to create your own.

Cheating. Same as ringing Fergie on Saturday morning & asking him to set up your team for you. Even if it's "just so you can have a look".

Cheating. Same as ringing Fergie on Saturday morning & asking him to set up your team for you. Even if it's "just so you can have a look".

What utter nonense.

Not that I pratice that msyelf, but it still isn't cheating for anyone who does it.

Of course it is! How many RL managers do you know that get somebody else to set up their tactics for them?!

100% cheating.

Yeah one problem with what you say................this isn't real life, t'is a game.

Of course it is! How many RL managers do you know that get somebody else to set up their tactics for them?!

100% cheating.

What has real life to do with anything?