How do you judge if you feel you deserved to win a game?

My point of the question is this, I'm currently in a save with Wolves, 2nd season, 9th in the league and just lost 4-0 to Liverpool in the League Cup final. Now, I played the better football and created some AMAZING chances. I wish I could upload the game. Now, I notice threads about the AI being better at finishing etc, and I am open minded so am not sure if there could be a case for this. I also read, 'don't judge you game by clear cut chances'. Well, why not? In a hell of a lot of games I will have so many excellent chances to score and my strikers shoot like 9 year olds using their wrong foot but the opposition will score with more clinical finishing. I can accept this happens in real life but not as often as it does in my saves, it's kinda ridiculous. I know some will say 'it's just how it seems', I have to say that it's not how it seems. It's how it is. The opposition put there chances away so much easier and better then me. Now, is that my tactics? I don't know. Is it my teamtalks? I don't know. I don't see how my tactics could make my players shoot so poorly. I had Ebanks-Blake and Fletcher up front who are nowhere near the quality of Suarez or Dembele who Liverpool had but my point is I created the chances and only somebody who had never kicked a ball before could have missed most of them. I expected Liverpool to finish the chances they had, but my players, again, were ridiculous with the chances they had. It's commonplace for me in my saves. I know some won't experience this and others will.

My League cup Final, look at the stats:-http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=4f684w4opjvlcfg

The AI is not better at finishing.

People say you shouldn't take CCCs into account which is sort of right, but they mean you shouldn't take the actual stat and assume it's a great scoring chance. The way the game calculates them can be misleading, so you should look at the chances and judge for yourself if it's clear cut or not.

Sometimes good players fail to put chances away all day long, whilst a supposedly weaker team might score all their chances, just look at any of Liverpool's home games this season for examples.

How do you judge if you feel you deserved to win a game?

I feel i have deserved to win a game if i have scored more goals than the opposition.

Kenco, you have to trust me then when I say the chances I'm creating are fantastic and IRL they most definitely would be finished at least 50% of the time. There is no way they would be missed like they are. Strikers shooting like they play Rugby, not football. I understand these games happen where teams nick a win etc. I'm not just judging by the CCC's, it's a regular occurrence where I create some fantastic chances just to see them put miserably wide or straight at the keeper and read 'how did he miss that?', that was a sitter!' The opposition, on the other, create chances and their players do finish them very nicely!

Milnerpoint, lol, of course, but there are times in footy when you come away from a game you lost but feel you deserved to win.

The only way to truly judge if you were robbed is to watch the entire match, highlights & match stats can be very misleading.

For example, the EIGHT clear cut chances in that League Cup final were literally eight chances that were harder to miss. IRL managers judge CCC's, of course there are games like Chelsea - Barcelona where the ball just won't go in the net, but, it's not regular like it is for me in FM.

Kenco, you have to trust me then when I say the chances I'm creating are fantastic and IRL they most definitely would be finished at least 50% of the time. There is no way they would be missed like they are. Strikers shooting like they play Rugby, not football. I understand these games happen where teams nick a win etc. I'm not just judging by the CCC's, it's a regular occurrence where I create some fantastic chances just to see them put miserably wide or straight at the keeper and read 'how did he miss that?', that was a sitter!' The opposition, on the other, create chances and their players do finish them very nicely!

Dolph the AI isn't really better at finishing, there is an exceptionally good thread on this where everyone spent time, looking the OP's results, stats etc. Turn out he was far more clinical than anyone in his league. But it could be a number of things. Hard to say without ever looking at your pkms and such. But there are very few games were I feel genuinely robbed. Mainly because there are games when ive done a complete backs to teh wall job, keeper has had a blinder and i go up and score.

But if its happening regularly against you, then there is something you need to change.

Kenco, you have to trust me then when I say the chances I'm creating are fantastic and IRL they most definitely would be finished at least 50% of the time.

What sort of chances are you creating? They aren't the through ball between the Centre Backs and your striker one on one with the keeper are they? I can see my team create those chances 4-5 times a match due to poor defending in the Match Engine, whilst you'd be lucky to see more then one in a game in real life.

A few of those type's of one-on-ones, of course, but not a load. It's just something I'm finding. Never mind!

Kenco, you have to trust me then when I say the chances I'm creating are fantastic and IRL they most definitely would be finished at least 50% of the time. There is no way they would be missed like they are. Strikers shooting like they play Rugby, not football. I understand these games happen where teams nick a win etc. I'm not just judging by the CCC's, it's a regular occurrence where I create some fantastic chances just to see them put miserably wide or straight at the keeper and read 'how did he miss that?', that was a sitter!' The opposition, on the other, create chances and their players do finish them very nicely!

As I said, it's a regular occurrence for Liverpool IRL this season, virtually every home game and a number of away games against lower opposition have gone like this. Dirk Kuyt scored for fun in Holland but has missed some unbelievable sitters this season, as has the rest of the team. They've hit the woodwork almost as many times as they've scored.

Milnerpoint, lol, of course, but there are times in footy when you come away from a game you lost but feel you deserved to win.

My opinion is, yes, you come away from games thinking "we should have won" but if your coming away from more games than not with that thinking then your team is doing something wrong, you can only be SO unlucky, the rest is because of how the players are playing or being asked to play. Learning to distinguish between being unlucky and being at fault can be hard, but its an important thing to learn.

Your players probably just **** themselves in a big game.

I definitely agree with that Hursty! Was a shocker! My thoughts aren't from just one game or one save. Anyhow, I guess Barside said it right, I would have to watch the full highlights to get a real idea, definitely haven't got time for that!

I agree Milnerpoint, and I have to say it's totally lost on me! Why my players are shooting the way they are is beyond me and I don't know how to change/influence it.

When is the only time your Goalkeeper gets injured? When you sell your excess goalkeepers or loan them out.

When is the only time your best player gets injured? When you sell or loan your excess players in that position.

When is the only time your best defender gets sent off? In a title winning game!

When do your players go on international duty? On the same day you're playing a Champions League match that you need to win.

I don't particularly mind losing even if I've had possession and most of the shots - it drives me mad. But sometimes players don't play well or you just get beaten.

But there are times I know what's going to happen as it happens all the time.

@ Dolph11 - The analysis tab is your friend

I agree Milnerpoint, and I have to say it's totally lost on me! Why my players are shooting the way they are is beyond me and I don't know how to change/influence it.

As Pep says, putting the ball in the net is the hardest thing to do in football, everything else is just coaching to get to that point. You need to ananlyse what kind of chances you're creating, and why your not putting them away, there will be a logical reason in there, you just need to find it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/289528-The-SI-Sports-Centre-All-You-Need-To-Know-About-FM

Read that from post 44 downwards, it talks about the analysis tab. It's the only thing you need to determine how well you played.

I often find there are days where my players are being forced to take long shots, and I have to put a stop to that, I choose the option for "Work Ball into Box" and that stops most of it.

I also find that having match details on helps. If I'm playing "long balls" over the top on a gusty day, I might be hampering myself. So I change that to "Pass to Feet" and I put the team passing to "shorter" and "more direct" and "work ball into box" - this stops them lofting balls and hopefully keep it on the ground.

There's loads of little things going on in the game. I like to bring up the assistant advice and he'll generally tell me if a player is misplacing a lot of passes, so I'll look at his routines he's set to for the game and make some alterations on where he should pass to.

Same goes for players not hitting the target, I might change their role to be a more "defensive role" if they are having trouble hitting the target. They can work back and win the ball and feed it to the other striker or wide winger. Just means he won't be taking as many shots and if he's missing then that's fine.

It's usually a weak link within the team, or the opposition not giving you space. So I have alternative tactics ready to go, from a very wide formation with lots of passing. And I have tactics for a narrower game - especially if I'm being over-run in midfield (I play 4 midfielders they might be playing 5) switching to a narrower play basically cuts out their wide men giving me an advantage in midfield where I'll basically have 4 against their 3.

If I haven't scored after 10 chances then there's something not working, and it has to be changed.

I do manage to score over 100 goals a season.

Kenco, you have to trust me then when I say the chances I'm creating are fantastic and IRL they most definitely would be finished at least 50% of the time. There is no way they would be missed like they are. Strikers shooting like they play Rugby, not football. I understand these games happen where teams nick a win etc. I'm not just judging by the CCC's, it's a regular occurrence where I create some fantastic chances just to see them put miserably wide or straight at the keeper and read 'how did he miss that?', that was a sitter!' The opposition, on the other, create chances and their players do finish them very nicely!

Oh hai guys, what's going on in here?

Joking aside, I know the feeling =) There certainly are games that I feel like I should have won, but didn't. Generally, that comes from watching the game and seeing me have the upper hand but wasting chances. I'm still trying to sort out how, apart from having better players, I can improve the conversion rate.

However, there's also often a significant confirmation bias factor: You tend to notice the things that reinforce your feeling of "being robbed", while you filter out the things that don't. Personally, when I lose a game that I thought I deserved to win I feel it very acutely. When I win a game I didn't deserve to, I think "phew, that was a nice break" and forget about it. This subconscious filtering of the data also helps make it seem like things are much worse than they are. I even had a game recently where I lost as the favorites and was annoyed, only for the post-game report and the stats/analysis to show that I had not actually been in control of the game the way that I emotionally felt like I had when I wasted my goal chances.

That being said, you *are* going to miss chances. Sometimes a lot. But I think that if you spend as much time looking at the opponent stats as you do your own, especially in games you win, you may find that the AI is probably somewhere on this board, with their own account, complaining that "those damn humans always score."

Thanks for all your help guys.

The exact opposite happens when I am a lower team playing a bigger team. They have most possesion and chances and I win by a fluke OG or something strange happening.

It goes both ways. Some days I win games I shouldn't have. I beat AC Milan 6-1 at home and I only had 4 shots on target, they scored 2 OGs.

If that happened to me I'd have thrown the computer out the window.

A prime example of when everything comes together to deny you victory, two lovely own goals & a worldy from 30 yards out, tbh their keeper didn't cover himself in glory for our goal but he did go on to make 6 saves during the match.

[video=youtube;Pp0ZQAsxcz8]

So much of it comes from being honest with yourself. I have world class CBs who my set pieces are aimed at. When I finish a game and neither has scored, I tend to wonder, how the hell did he not score, with 4 headers from 6 yards out? Same when the best player in the world (and on my team) finishes a game with 6 shots, or so, and no goals. But that doesn't mean its unfair or unrealistic! Look for big game players, look for consistent players, ones with good personalities and good determination/decision-making, and your life as manager will become a lot more enjoyable.

when the opposition doesnt have a shot on target yet score from some buggy O.G

I evaluate how the final score corresponds the shots stats.

For example, if my team lost 0:1 while the shots stats look 15(6):2(1) in my favour, so I consider we deserved a win in this game.

when the opposition doesnt have a shot on target yet score from some buggy O.G

This... I almost reconsider my no-reload policy on this basis alone.

Fm11 was ok in this respect but 12 had a crowning moment of idiot. I bought the game, loaded up as Bromley and thought I'll see if the ME has improved. This was my FIRST match in FM2012...

Ten minutes in, cross comes into the box, keeper spills it into the six yard box. DC picks it up, stands there for ten seconds (having a chat with the keeper), under no pressure as everyone had retreated back in any case. He then proceeds to thump the (dead) ball onto the crossbar and into the net.

So, match engine failure? Poor representation of what actually happened? Match fixing?

Whatever, I figured if that kind of crap happened in a real fixture of a real game that I'm playing, I'd probably ragequit.

In any case it happened again in my real Hampton save. Cross came in, smacked the defender in the face, bobbled on the floor, keeper runs at it jumps over it, defender runs past the ball and the ball trickles from the edge of the six yard box into the net. I was FUMING. Luckily, we won 2-1 so I let it slide but imo match events are not being displayed properly.

There certainly needs to be an equal amount of work on the 3D viewer & animations as there will be on the new ME, hopefully Si hired some talent in this area although "· Interest in 3D animation techniques a bonus." does not fill me with a great deal of confidence

My point of the question is this, I'm currently in a save with Wolves, 2nd season, 9th in the league and just lost 4-0 to Liverpool in the League Cup final. Now, I played the better football and created some AMAZING chances. I wish I could upload the game.

You can upload your pkm and we can all watch it.

Unfortunately I have no clue how to do it and had a crash dump after my last game of the season finishing in 6th and getting a Europa Cup spot! Gutted! My first ever crash dump!

A prime example of when everything comes together to deny you victory, two lovely own goals & a worldy from 30 yards out, tbh their keeper didn't cover himself in glory for our goal but he did go on to make 6 saves during the match.

[video=youtube;Pp0ZQAsxcz8]

Second own goal made me chuckle.

30yarder was pretty impressive as well.

A prime example of when everything comes together to deny you victory, two lovely own goals & a worldy from 30 yards out, tbh their keeper didn't cover himself in glory for our goal but he did go on to make 6 saves during the match.

[video=youtube;Pp0ZQAsxcz8]

Doh, it's obviously your tactics