SERIE A ~ Too easy?

I recently started a new save with Lazio in Serie A, Its on youtube which yo can follow if you want I'll put a link below. Things are going well just after the january transfer window we are in the Italian Cup Semi-Final, The knock-out rounds of the europa league and surprisingly challenging for the league. Very suprising considering the media expectation was to get 8th. Which has left me wondering is the league too easy or am I just that damn good:lol:

Has anyone else found Serie A easy or had an opposite experience?

Here's the link to my FM series on youtube if you want to follow along http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN_jH4PMIc8:thup:

Every league outside England is poorly researched in terms of the AI managers' tactical preferences. You will encounter a lot of bizarre tactical set-ups and formations that don't match the squads. For example, Conte plays an ultra-attacking 4-2-4 instead of his much more balanced 5-3-2 and, further down the table, many managers just use a generic 4-4-2 with randomly generated tactical attributes.

Basically, it's a glaring weak spot in the database, but it can be fixed with the editor.

i have to agree, winning the serie A title in FM is easier than winning the EPL title. why? it's the factor of competitiveness. in the EPL, you have four AI teams that can really win the title in the first season (utd/city/chelsea/arsenal). if you're not any of those 4 teams, you're going to have a tough time competing with those 4 teams for the title

but if you're trying to pursue the serie A title in FM, there's only 2 teams the AI can win the title with (milan and inter). so if you're napoli/juve/roma/udinese/lazio you only really have to compete with those 2 teams for the title

what it all comes down to in FM is that there's a big4 in england but only a big2 in italy

i have to agree, winning the serie A title in FM is easier than winning the EPL title. why? it's the factor of competitiveness. in the EPL, you have four AI teams that can really win the title in the first season (utd/city/chelsea/arsenal). if you're not any of those 4 teams, you're going to have a tough time competing with those 4 teams for the title

but if you're trying to pursue the serie A title in FM, there's only 2 teams the AI can win the title with (milan and inter). so if you're napoli/juve/roma/udinese/lazio you only really have to compete with those 2 teams for the title

what it all comes down to in FM is that there's a big4 in england but only a big2 in italy

Yes, which makes it all the more realistic. If you are someone who watches real soccer, you will know that Italy is so poor in quality that it has fallen behind the Bundesliga

The problem I have when I managed in Italy is that the top teams all draw so many away games, so a decent 6 game winning run will shoot you up the table. I used to win the league easily every season with Napoli, 15+ points ahead of the rest. The teams actually did well in the Champions League just domestically the teams draw every other game. AC Milan were the only threat. Juventus, Roma, Inter were midtable teams and it was the likes of Fiorentina who would compete for Champions League places and Palermo.

Yes, which makes it all the more realistic. If you are someone who watches real soccer, you will know that Italy is so poor in quality that it has fallen behind the Bundesliga

The Bundesliga probably has better players than the EPL.

The Bundesliga probably has better players than the EPL.

I'm afraid not.

Yes, which makes it all the more realistic. If you are someone who watches real soccer, you will know that Italy is so poor in quality that it has fallen behind the Bundesliga

Regardless of the relative quality of Serie A as a whole (and I agree that Ligue 1 and Bundesliga probably have more talent), the league itself is very competitive. Juventus, Milan, Inter, Lazio, Roma, Udinese and Napoli are all viable title contenders.

Yes, which makes it all the more realistic. If you are someone who watches real soccer, you will know that Italy is so poor in quality that it has fallen behind the Bundesliga

i'm German but i'm a Roma supporter . so i support both leagues in real football. it's not as simple as which league is better. serie A clubs haven't been taking europa league seriously because of its low prize payouts. most Italian clubs are in financial crisis so they need all the money they can get. so it's much wiser for them to allocate their assets to compete for better league standings. bundesliga is on the other end of the spectrum. financially speaking, they have the most stable clubs in the world (more stable than any EPL, Serie A, or La Liga club except Arsenal maybe). for them it's more about winning medals/prestige than prize money

but if you compare quality between both leagues, i would say Serie A is noticably higher than Bundesliga is every aspect. if you pit a Italian and German team of the same league standing in a friendly match that doesn't involve money or prestige, i would say the Italian team would win most of the time

I am never concerned with only how well I do this season, sustained dominance is the key for me, titles year in year out. I am in the year 2034 and Roma, Lazio and Inter all have good (albeit aging) squads to attempt to challenge my Juventus side. Don't be surprised if the 2nd season is a bit tougher and you need to play a little more defensively, as teams adjust to how well your team has been doing.

I have an AC Milan save, whilst I won the league in my first season with only Inter as any real challenge, in my second season Palermo won the league by a counter as I had to settle for second place. The league was much more competitive overall second time around with some sides making some astute signings. Furthermore there are some good sides in Serie B to come up like Sampdoria and Torino which improve the quality of the league.

personaly I find Serie A to be harder to win then the EPL, purely becouse there's more games you can drop points in, teams play more defensive against you from the off, and even if some formations that managers use are inaccurate or outdated (much like The Hand of God mentioned), theres still a lot more variation in this regard then you will find in england

hmm im afraid so.

Look at Dortmund and Bayern and the worst bundesliga teams have much better rosters than bottom level EPL teams.

hmm im afraid so.

Look at Dortmund and Bayern and the worst bundesliga teams have much better rosters than bottom level EPL teams.

I tend to agree. As I stated on the 'the best' poll thread, the EPL is overrated, both in real life and definately in FM. Outside the current top 5, the EPL is average at best. Spain and Germany have better quality teams. Its not an opinion, its a fact And I'm English so it pains me to say it.

I really think its hard to comapre leagues as different leagues tend to have different style teams, overall u find the epl is based on power and speed apart from a few exceptions like swansea . italy is still a much more technical and tactical league than the epl and german league is quite varied in my opinion. I think u find when the best english teams come up against the highly technical spanish and sometimes italian sides they really look technically inedpt take bilbao man utd for example then milan when they outclassed arsenal technically and tatically outclassed them. I think over the next few years u will so a rise in bundesliga temas in europe as there foundations in german football financially are allowing there teams to grow slowly and due to the coaching and youth development of the spanish teams they will be up there for years to come.

hmm im afraid so.

Look at Dortmund and Bayern and the worst bundesliga teams have much better rosters than bottom level EPL teams.

I looked at Dortmund and didn't they get battered by an average ECL group this year? Undoubtedly Bayern could beat any English team but there is a difference between this and the entire league system being better.

EPL has great players. EPL has great fans. EPL has great production values. But its not 'the best league' because no such thing exists. It only exists in the world of marketing. My beef isn't that EPL is overrated, its that its called the EPL to begin with Its famous for foreign owners, foreign stars, foreign managers, more than any other league in the world! Just call it the Prem!

EPL has great players. EPL has great fans. EPL has great production values. But its not 'the best league' because no such thing exists. It only exists in the world of marketing. My beef isn't that EPL is overrated, its that its called the EPL to begin with Its famous for foreign owners, foreign stars, foreign managers, more than any other league in the world! Just call it the Prem!

Folk might argue that it also exists in performance in Europe; which (I believe) the EPL has excelled in recent years.

EPL has great players. EPL has great fans. EPL has great production values. But its not 'the best league' because no such thing exists. It only exists in the world of marketing. My beef isn't that EPL is overrated, its that its called the EPL to begin with Its famous for foreign owners, foreign stars, foreign managers, more than any other league in the world! Just call it the Prem!

It isn't called the 'EPL' in the first place!

It's called the Premier League. Just as the Football League is the Football League and not the 'English Football League'.

There's crap on the bottom half of the table of every league, Spain and Germany probably are the best nations on Europe developing players right now so there's probably less crap but it's still crap anyway, Benfica recently played against Hertha Berlin and Stuttgart and they were horrible.

I am never concerned with only how well I do this season, sustained dominance is the key for me, titles year in year out. I am in the year 2034 and Roma, Lazio and Inter all have good (albeit aging) squads to attempt to challenge my Juventus side. Don't be surprised if the 2nd season is a bit tougher and you need to play a little more defensively, as teams adjust to how well your team has been doing.

i won the scudetto 3 years in a row with Roma and still going. no one has adjusted to me yet

I have to say as an englishmen i detest this notion of the Premiership being the bets league, because it just isn't. In terms of technical players, 3/4 years ago we were, and it was reflected in our european performances, but ever since then spain has been beating us (look at europa league this yera as well), since 2009 i would say we've been falling behind, and i think the more foreign players leaving also indicates us. We don't have the 2 bets players in the world in our league, Spain does. And lower down the table, i think the top 6 in England and Spain may be close, but i firmly believe the lesser teams in spain have more talented individuals and better teams. I watched Recreativo back when they got relegated at their stadium and thta was a good team, and they still went down, they would still school Wigan!

But its a cycle, this happens every 10 years or so as we all know, i mean you always see the serie A dominating europe for a few years, then La Liga, then the premiership, with the odd other country putting in great performances. I actually believe France is on the rise too with the competition to Lyon stepping up. People dismiss la Liga because Real and Barca are always miles ahead, but they are miles ahead of the english teams too!!

Anyway back to the original question, i think it is too easy in game. It annoys me as its too competitive, you regularly see 10 points seperating like 1st to 10th and i just don't think its realistic, its generally to easy to build success in the Serie A. Id say spain is hardest due to the difficulty of toppling the top 2. But Italy anyone can take points off anyone, and if you build a decent team generally you run away with it. I think the Serie A was the best league to play in around 09 as i felt it was much more competitive in a realistic scale, now i probably enjoy it the least out of the big 3. And less than Holland too.

The Bundesliga probably has better players than the EPL.

taking the p*ss?

It isn't called the 'EPL' in the first place!

It's called the Premier League. Just as the Football League is the Football League and not the 'English Football League'.

Majority of non-British football fans now call our league the EPL - I don't like it either, but it seems it's here to stay...at least for the non-Brits!

^^^ It makes it easier as there are sooooo many 'Premier Leagues' about....A lot of countries use their first division as the premier league so English Premier League makes sense to me....like SPL is Scotish premier league.

Not only Italy, I became champion of Spain with Betis in the third season without using Scout, Editor etc. Strange really as I not consider myself to be that good at FM.

I don't think SA is easy to win, its just the teams are quite evenly matched until you start building your own squad, changing your backroom team etc etc.

I'm currently emplyed my Parma, took the job after 18 months at A.Bilboa.

They were 18th when I took over, with my tactics (well not mine, from the forum), I managed to get them to 5th that season with a couple of great young midfield signings.

Just went on from there, 2nd season in charge finished 4th, 3rd season 3rd, 4th & 5th seasons back to back league titles but thats as I've been buying great young players and built a fantastic young, free flowing attacking side.

So I think my point is, any league can become easy so to speak when the sides are so evenly match to start with.

I have to say as an englishmen i detest this notion of the Premiership being the bets league, because it just isn't. In terms of technical players, 3/4 years ago we were, and it was reflected in our european performances, but ever since then spain has been beating us (look at europa league this yera as well), since 2009 i would say we've been falling behind, and i think the more foreign players leaving also indicates us. We don't have the 2 bets players in the world in our league, Spain does. And lower down the table, i think the top 6 in England and Spain may be close, but i firmly believe the lesser teams in spain have more talented individuals and better teams. I watched Recreativo back when they got relegated at their stadium and thta was a good team, and they still went down, they would still school Wigan!

But its a cycle, this happens every 10 years or so as we all know, i mean you always see the serie A dominating europe for a few years, then La Liga, then the premiership, with the odd other country putting in great performances. I actually believe France is on the rise too with the competition to Lyon stepping up. People dismiss la Liga because Real and Barca are always miles ahead, but they are miles ahead of the english teams too!!

Anyway back to the original question, i think it is too easy in game. It annoys me as its too competitive, you regularly see 10 points seperating like 1st to 10th and i just don't think its realistic, its generally to easy to build success in the Serie A. Id say spain is hardest due to the difficulty of toppling the top 2. But Italy anyone can take points off anyone, and if you build a decent team generally you run away with it. I think the Serie A was the best league to play in around 09 as i felt it was much more competitive in a realistic scale, now i probably enjoy it the least out of the big 3. And less than Holland too.

Agreed

European competitions are the only place where you can make such a comparison since both nations' clubs compete for the same prizes. And Spain wins in every department.

Spain wins at the highest level, the Champions League. And Spain dominates England in the Europa League too - which is a good indication of how strong Spanish sides are outside of Barca and Real compared to how strong English sides are outside of Man Utd and Chelsea (i.e. strength in depth throughout the league).

Number of participating clubs of the Champions League era:

Spain 12

England 9

Number of finals since 1993 (birth of the EPL):

Spain 10

England 8

Number of times Spanish teams have played English teams in the final:

Three, and its 3-0 to Spain

Number of semi finals:

Spain 21

England 19

Europa/Uefa league finals:

Spain 8

England 4

Europa/Uefa league semi finals:

Spain 14

England 7

La Liga contains the better, or at least the more successful, teams. These days the premiership is overrated and vastly overhyped by the British media so it can continue to sell its 'product' overseas.

The Premier League has branded itself as the EPL outside of Britain. Its not that its a bad league, the football just isn't superior. Its a different brand of football, each league in each country is.

In my latest FM save my team got knocked out in the first knockout round, because the world's best goalie (aged 32) played for the opposition, 20 position, 20 command of area and communication, no real weakness to speak of... And in the backline was my former world beating CB, now 35 or 36, no pace left, but even with 24 shots we couldn't make the breakthrough. Oh well, our top winger did go out injured just before, and still on top of the league... But thats $30m gone, just like that, for the club!

The Premier League has branded itself as the EPL outside of Britain.

I doubt it. Not sure where you have got that from. Maybe television companies in America (and possibly some other countries?) have branded it that way but the Premier League is the Premier League and I've never heard them call the league the 'EPL'.

I don't know why people are talking about the quality of the Premier League anyway. This thread is about Serie A and the difficulty of winning the league there on Football Manager 2012, not about the Premier League at all! And as for this whole 'best league in the world' nonsense, it is seen for what it is by most intelligent football fans. It's just marketing nonsense best ignored. I don't know why people take it so seriously!

i have to agree, winning the serie A title in FM is easier than winning the EPL title. why? it's the factor of competitiveness. in the EPL, you have four AI teams that can really win the title in the first season (utd/city/chelsea/arsenal). if you're not any of those 4 teams, you're going to have a tough time competing with those 4 teams for the title

but if you're trying to pursue the serie A title in FM, there's only 2 teams the AI can win the title with (milan and inter). so if you're napoli/juve/roma/udinese/lazio you only really have to compete with those 2 teams for the title

what it all comes down to in FM is that there's a big4 in england but only a big2 in italy

what nonsense.

i took the AC milan job in the sixth season and they hadn't won the title at all since the game started. inter, sampdoria, roma and palermo had shared the serie A titles. i have won the league twice in my 2 and a half seasons with palermo, juventus and udinese being my closest rivals. fiorentina have also begun to build a very good squad and look like a potential threat for the 2019/20 season.

This thread is about the Italian league and if it is easy to win on FM, it is not about if the Premier League should be called the EPL or if German sides are better than French ones in real life, keep on topic or the thread will be closed. If you want to discuss which leagues are strongest outside of FM then go to the football forum which surprisingly is where people discuss real football.

I would say that Serie A is extremely easy to win at the start of the game but then gets harder as more re-gens are produced. At the beginning Inter have an aging, over-paid squad full of players that are impossible to shift. Milan are ok but lacking in lots of positions. Roma, Lazio etc are way off. Udinese always seem to win the title the first season on mine. Their initial squad is probably the deepest on the game even if they lack true world class players. After a few years of the big clubs having their elite Italian youth academy products things change and the big clubs because great again, but it does take time.

Agreed

European competitions are the only place where you can make such a comparison since both nations' clubs compete for the same prizes. And Spain wins in every department.

Spain wins at the highest level, the Champions League. And Spain dominates England in the Europa League too - which is a good indication of how strong Spanish sides are outside of Barca and Real compared to how strong English sides are outside of Man Utd and Chelsea (i.e. strength in depth throughout the league).

Number of participating clubs of the Champions League era:

Spain 12

England 9

Number of finals since 1993 (birth of the EPL):

Spain 10

England 8

Number of times Spanish teams have played English teams in the final:

Three, and its 3-0 to Spain

Number of semi finals:

Spain 21

England 19

Europa/Uefa league finals:

Spain 8

England 4

Europa/Uefa league semi finals:

Spain 14

England 7

La Liga contains the better, or at least the more successful, teams. These days the premiership is overrated and vastly overhyped by the British media so it can continue to sell its 'product' overseas.

La Liga has barcelona and Real Madrid who dominate and get the majority of all income from TV/sponsorship etc due to the TV licensing which would unbalance it surelyas Man Utd, Chelsea have their splits equally. However the UEFA cup stat is interesting and telling but is tainted by how apart from Fulham sadly no other English club seems to take it seriously which is stupid and surely its a European cup

I'm afraid not.

Im afraid so....German players are better than English players technically.

It isn't called the 'EPL' in the first place!

It's called the Premier League. Just as the Football League is the Football League and not the 'English Football League'.

In England it is. If you are outside of England its called the EPL because its English.

I looked at Dortmund and didn't they get battered by an average ECL group this year? Undoubtedly Bayern could beat any English team but there is a difference between this and the entire league system being better.

Didn't the top team in England right now get battered by FC Basel and also recently get destroyed both away and at Old Trafford to the 11th place team in Spain?

I thought we we're back on the discussion about whether Serie A was a little too easy on FM?

I'm all for threads morphing into another topic but this FA Premier League is better, no Liga BBVA is better, no it's Bundesliga bickering is getting very boring.

Agreed Barside. Some people are clearly just trolling, to be honest.

TBH, I thought maybe ilCuoreDiRoma made the best contribution. In recent years, it has been said that Italy has a more competitive and closely contested top flight. It seems pretty logical to me to say that perhaps there is just more chance for an 'outsider' to push on and overachieve in Serie A.

I wouldn't know thought as I'm still stuck at Serie C1 level. Currently managing Perugia after spells with Giacomense and Mezzocorona.

Didn't the top team in England right now get battered by FC Basel and also recently get destroyed both away and at Old Trafford to the 11th place team in Spain?

I wasn't the one who started the argument so don't shoot the messenger mate.

Valencia and Villarreal also failed to get out of the group stage, every country will have clubs flopping one season or another, there seems to be a trend to only emphasize the failings from the english clubs because it's easier to hate them probably, though United was really pathetic on europe this season.

The Europa League is irrelevant, it's not only english clubs that ignore it, italian clubs ignore it as well and most french clubs too from what i've seen, it's a second rate competition that is the only chance of a european trophy for leagues like the Portuguese,Dutch,Ukrainian or Russian.

People were told yet continued to run with the petty which league is better arguments.