New outlook on in-game bugs... Plain old injustice!

After reading this thread, I started to think about it and concluded that whatever happens, under no circumstances should anybody ever restart the game because they weren't happy with the outcome. Whether it's a loss, or a bug, or regret over a managerial decision/team selection, or anything else.

In bad moments like all of the above, we should take our medicine and accept it as gross injustice. That's actually one thing the game lacks - bloomin' injustice! How often are goals wrongly ruled out for offside, or wrongly given despite being yards offside? Never in the game - to my knowledge - and I've played since the mid-90's.

But dodgy decisions happen all the time in real life, virtually every other match. Even twice in the recent Chelsea v Wigan match - a serious dose of injustice that could ultimately see Wigan relegated from the Premiership. Cruel, yes - but Roberto Martinez handled it with the ever-mellow head of reason (after labelling the lineman's performance as 'disgusting' which is totally fair enough, I feel) and has since said this:

...and let me tell you, he can't simply reboot and replay the game whatever happens.

So if a bug results in a goal against you - instead of seeing it as a bug SI should've fixed long ago, see it as a FIX for the other bug that is never mentioned - the bug where there are no wrong refereeing decisions in-game. As Martinez might say; in many ways, the bugs are going to level out.

I've had many dodgy refereeing decisions in my time, they happen all of the time.

There are plenty of ref mistakes in the game already, from wrongly awarded or not awarded pens, to offside goals.

That's your opinion. You have no say in how other players decide to play the game. Thus making this statement 'I started to think about it and concluded that whatever happens, under no circumstances should anybody ever restart the game because they weren't happy with the outcome' is very unfair. They have paid their £30 or whatever and have ownership of how they want to explore their game.

You can decide that you will choose to play with whatever happens but you can't generalise that to the entire FM population.

I would argue that a great deal can be learned from replaying a match, tweaking tactics and noticing what made the game so vastly different.

I think your in the wrong thread.

Me? If so, I don't see why? The point of the thread wasn't simply the lack of wrong decisions, which as you pointed out was misinformed anyway. He was also making the point to not reload games.

There are plenty of ref mistakes in the game already, from wrongly awarded or not awarded pens, to offside goals.

Yes there are. I think there are less than irl and I don't mean just goal action and yellow/red card mistakes I mean more the mundane and also ludicrous ones. Imagine if a player received two yellows but the ref forgot to send him off in FM, it would be reported, and probably accepted, as a bug. Or sending off the wrong player or a goal not being given when the ball was 3 yards over the line. These things have happened irl.

That being said, I don't think many of us, myself included, would like more mistakes than there is because that would produce too much randomness in results and annoy the hell out of us.

That's your opinion. You have no say in how other players decide to play the game. Thus making this statement 'I started to think about it and concluded that whatever happens, under no circumstances should anybody ever restart the game because they weren't happy with the outcome' is very unfair. They have paid their £30 or whatever and have ownership of how they want to explore their game.

You can decide that you will choose to play with whatever happens but you can't generalise that to the entire FM population.

I would argue that a great deal can be learned from replaying a match, tweaking tactics and noticing what made the game so vastly different.

Yes but he is a member of these forums and as such is allowed to voice his opinion as much as you are allowed to disagree. The day opinions are no longer allowed is the day the internet dies.

Yes there are. I think there are less than irl and I don't mean just goal action and yellow/red card mistakes I mean more the mundane and also ludicrous ones. Imagine if a player received two yellows but the ref forgot to send him off in FM, it would be reported, and probably accepted, as a bug. Or sending off the wrong player or a goal not being given when the ball was 3 yards over the line. These things have happened irl.

That being said, I don't think many of us, myself included, would like more mistakes than there is because that would produce too much randomness in results and annoy the hell out of us.

Yeah id agree, i dont think i would like tons of ref mistakes, there are enough as there are and they are frustrating as hell, especially if its in a big important game.

I feel there should be a lot more of bad referee decisions in FM(when compared to real life) but they probably keep it low so the game isn't as frustrating as it's IRL when your team gets a bad decision.

To me it feels like the game has this more or less on the money. After watching the best part of 2000+ hours of match footage on FM12 I have seen plenty of dubious calls from officials be they offside decision, penalties, fouls or bad decisions when booking or not booking a player, I do think most bad decisions non-calls & as such are harder to spot.

One area that ME is certainly lacking in is the added dynamic of whether the ball crossed the line (goals, throw-ins or corners) or if it took a deflection on the way out of play, these just come across as an absolute matter of fact & are always 100% correct.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

(This sentence is often used sarcastically, of course)

Isn't that sentence originally from Hattrick or it's actually from CM/FM?

Isn't that sentence originally from Hattrick or it's actually from CM/FM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undocumented_feature

Had no idea it was that old

I think ref mistakes should be optional as none-few-average-many

To me it feels like the game has this more or less on the money. After watching the best part of 2000+ hours of match footage on FM12 I have seen plenty of dubious calls from officials be they offside decision, penalties, fouls or bad decisions when booking or not booking a player, I do think most bad decisions non-calls & as such are harder to spot.

One area that ME is certainly lacking in is the added dynamic of whether the ball crossed the line (goals, throw-ins or corners) or if it took a deflection on the way out of play, these just come across as an absolute matter of fact & are always 100% correct.

The animations need to be more accurate first. I've seen a keeper make a save and land on the ground holding the ball over the line, get up and carry on playing with no decision from the officials.

they do need to fix offsides, players seem unaware of the defenders.

The good news is, the bugs in FM12 are few and far between, and as I have said, much credit has to go to SI for this.

The good news is, the bugs in FM12 are few and far between, and as I have said, much credit has to go to SI for this.

What?? One of the most touted new features of the game is basically unusable. The coding for major Cups is horrifically bugged. And this is after several patches.

If I can drag this thread back on-topic for a moment to prove that dubious & possibly controversial decisions are made by the officials, these are two from my last game my last game.

[video=youtube;rK1CH6fGw60]

I was thankful that the offside decision wasn't costly & if I was the Bayern manager I'd be less than pleased with the decision to book my player for diving, it wasn't a penalty but it didn't look like a dive either.

To all of the above: Oh right, I stand corrected. How come I never see wrong decisions?!

To milnerpoint RE post #9: Ha, so much for the fight for realism... "i dont think i would like tons of ref mistakes, there are enough as there are and they are frustrating as hell, especially if its in a big important game." If only real life managers could say the same thing. To go back to my original post - Wigan had ANOTHER shocking decision go against them tonight in real life with their goal wrongly ruled out. Honestly, i seen it on the internet and stuff. Luckily they still won the match - but at the time, Martinez was "frustrated as hell" i can assure you.

Ok well with regards the amount of mistakes in-game, I apparently stand corrected ... so will back down quietly.... looking forward to a good MotD in a bit... get in there Wigan, sock it to 'em Martinez!!!!!

and wigan scored from a corner that wasn't and got away with a possible handball?

there is such thing as a wrong descision, but when a player is flagged offside when you could park a car between him and the defender INFRONT of him, that is plain rediculous.

as is the players just stopping, goalies standing there, balls bouncing off players while defying the laws of physics (they never lose speed, they sometimes go through the defender etc)

To all of the above: Oh right' date=' I stand corrected. How come I never see wrong decisions?![/quote']

You can't be looking close enough, not sure how my player was given offside when there are two players on the line marking each post.

[video=youtube;wgZbsU9_ZZc]

I think people need to consider that suspension of disbelief is a central part of FM, and that when it is broken for some reason, reloading a game can be a sensible solution.