Why is Rafa Benitez 'world class'?

Mourinho has been sacked as Real manager, and 'one of the game's true greats' has been appointed. Why has he been described in this way? I'm just curious, because it's not like he's done anything recently to be considered 'great'.

Won the Spanish league twice and the UEFA cup with Valencia.

Won the Champions league with Liverpool.

Maybe that's it?

pieces of silverware in his history including a champions league title, eufa cup title and 2 la liga titles, that might be why

Is he in your hall of fame? That may explain the description on FM.

No matter what you think of him though, he is a pretty successful manager. 2 La Ligas, UEFA Cup, Champions League, FA Cup and Club World Cup as well as a few minor trophies in the last 10 years.

What's he done recently? Sacked by Liverpool after being a one season wonder, and jumped ship at Inter after a shocking start.

Managers are judged on what they've done in the last few years, not what they may have done 8/9 years ago. I just don't get why he is considered world class and a true great.

What's he done recently? Sacked by Liverpool after being a one season wonder, and jumped ship at Inter after a shocking start.

Managers are judged on what they've done in the last few years, not what they may have done 8/9 years ago. I just don't get why he is considered world class and a true great.

One season wonder? Behave!

2002 La Liga Winner

2003 Don't know how he did.

2004 La Liga and Uefa Cup Winner

2005 Champions League Winner

2006 FA Cup Winner

2007 Champions League Finalist

2009 Premier League runner up

2010 Left after a disappointing season that was down to the need to sell more than we buy because of the owners financial mismanagement

2011 World Champions then left due to lack of backing backing by the owner. After Mourinho's success the only way was down and an ageing squad didn't help look where they are now. I viewed the Inter job then the same as I see the Chelsea job now, one to stay away from due to too much player power

Any manager that wins a Champions League is World Class.

What's he done recently? Sacked by Liverpool after being a one season wonder, and jumped ship at Inter after a shocking start.

Managers are judged on what they've done in the last few years, not what they may have done 8/9 years ago. I just don't get why he is considered world class and a true great.

Arsene Wenger is a World Class Manager.

What's he done in the last few years/how many Champions Leagues has he won?

World Champions then left due to lack of backing backing by the owner. After Mourinho's success the only way was down and an ageing squad didn't help look where they are now. I viewed the Inter job then the same as I see the Chelsea job now, one to stay away from due to too much player power

Instead, he publically rebuked the owners and the Club World Championship only papered over the cracks that were his strange tactics and the general feeling that none of the players really liked him.

Any manager that wins a Champions League is World Class.

Frank Rijkaard? Johan Cruijff? Jupp Heynckes?

Frank Rijkaard? Johan Cruijff? Jupp Heynckes?

I don't get your point there? Yeah, they all won the Champions League, so personally I'd consider them World Class. How many World Class managers do you think there should be on the game? Like 5?

P.S. Just realised it may be that you could mean they aren't considered World Class on the game?

I don't think there's an issue with him being called "World Class", but using the tag "one of the game's true greats" is a bit daft.

It was massively overused in FM2011 IIRC as well. To become "one of the game's true greats" should require a bit more than two league wins and a champions League win.

Any manager that wins a Champions League is World Class.

Do you mean real life or on FM? I wouldn't class Pep Guardiola as world class yet. Yes he has won a lot but I don't think that is too difficult to be honest at Barcelona.

I don't get your point there? Yeah, they all won the Champions League, so personally I'd consider them World Class. How many World Class managers do you think there should be on the game? Like 5?

P.S. Just realised it may be that you could mean they aren't considered World Class on the game?

I couldn't agree any less. The term 'world class' is thrown around way too much, both in game (as Benitez is described as being, which he isn't) and in real life.

As for one of the game's true greats, sorry but that's just silly. There are maybe 4/5 managers TOPS who should have that title and Benitez certainly isn't one of them.

I couldn't agree any less. The term 'world class' is thrown around way too much, both in game (as Benitez is described as being, which he isn't) and in real life.

As for one of the game's true greats, sorry but that's just silly. There are maybe 4/5 managers TOPS who should have that title and Benitez certainly isn't one of them.

Absolutely. The notion that a manager winning the UCL defines him as "World Class" is absolutely ridiculous, but then again this is GD.

He's a world class fat waiter.

Winning a Champions League with the likes of Djimi Traore, Ignore Biscan and Vladi Smicer is what has made him World Class. Being 10 points off the pace in La Liga at the end of January and then beating the 2 biggest clubs in Europe to the title made him World Class. What other manager of the last 20 years has won La Liga twice with a team that isn't Barcelona or Real Madrid?

Winning a Champions League with the likes of Djimi Traore, Ignore Biscan and Vladi Smicer is what has made him World Class. Being 10 points off the pace in La Liga at the end of January and then beating the 2 biggest clubs in Europe to the title made him World Class. What other manager of the last 20 years has won La Liga twice with a team that isn't Barcelona or Real Madrid?

Yeah that was a quite good achievement, but I'm sorry, you have to do that sort of thing on a fairly regular basis to be considered world class and one of the game's true greats, surely?! Being a one season wonder at Liverpool and winning the league with Valencia, and earning that title is nothing short of ludicrous.

Literally can't believe some of the responses on this page, but to be expected if I'm arguing with Liverpool fans... :/

world class?

Frank Rijkaard? no.

Johan Cruijff? yes. Jupp Heynckes? yes.

Yeah that was a quite good achievement, but I'm sorry, you have to do that sort of thing on a fairly regular basis to be considered world class and one of the game's true greats, surely?! Being a one season wonder at Liverpool and winning the league with Valencia, and earning that title is nothing short of ludicrous.

Literally can't believe some of the responses on this page, but to be expected if I'm arguing with Liverpool fans... :/

I didn't say he was one of the game's true greats. Just that he is a World Class manager. One season wonder? He took Liverpool to another champions league final and won the FA cup. On top of that, he finished 2nd with Liverpool with their record amount of points. His points total would have won the league on a lot of other seasons.

Hard to do it regularily when the clubs funding is taken away and your net spend after finishing 2nd is something like -£30m over 2 season. He went on to Inter and won the world club championships but left because the team as old and needed re-vitalising and the chairman refused. Look at them now, 2 seasons later they are struggling because the team has not been renewed.

Talking about ludicrous statements, 1 champions league finals in 3 years is not quite good, it's exceptional especially considering the team that he had for the first one.

You are not arguing, you are discussing.

I wouldn't describe him as world class. Benitez still has a lot to learn about man management. The comparisons between him and Villas-Boas in terms of how they treat their players are uncanny.

Despite this, he is a highly successful manager, you'd be a fool to say otherwise.

I don't understand why people are going on about winning the Club World Cup (to give it its proper name). Inter beat a South Korean team and TP Mazembe, a Congolese team. Granted they won their respective regional tournaments, but come on, those teams are nothing compared to a giant of the world game like Inter. And look how bad they were in the league that season, yes the team may have been ageing, but I don't see how a team that won the CL, beating Barcelona along the way, suddenly becomes a bad team a few months later, unless the manager does a pretty poor job.

Rafa is currently the frontrunner to take over at Chelsea in real life, so his stock hasn't fallen as much as one would think.

Frankly, given the way manager reputation works, you're lucky Real didn't hire Mick McCarthy.

Rafa is currently the frontrunner to take over at Chelsea in real life, so his stock hasn't fallen as much as one would think.

Frankly, given the way manager reputation works, you're lucky Real didn't hire Mick McCarthy.

Why? He's a world class manager on the verge of becoming one of the game's true greats.

Simply - because he's a world class manager.

Do you mean real life or on FM? I wouldn't class Pep Guardiola as world class yet. Yes he has won a lot but I don't think that is too difficult to be honest at Barcelona.

Really? Why is that? Just because it is very easy to do those things in FM it doesn't mean it is just as easy in real life.

Why? He's a world class manager on the verge of becoming one of the game's true greats.

Good point. Winning Ligue 1, Serie A or the Bundesliga is impressive in its own special way, but do those "achievements" really compare to beating the United U18 team in the Carling Cup final?

Do you mean real life or on FM? I wouldn't class Pep Guardiola as world class yet. Yes he has won a lot but I don't think that is too difficult to be honest at Barcelona.

I meant IRL.

Only Rijkaard can probably be considered a fluke i suppose, Benítez won two Spanish Leagues with Valencia and got to two Champions League finals in 3 years that takes some doing.

I think Guardiola is already World Class as well, he picked up a Barcelona team that finished 3rd and went on to win an amazing amount of trophies on the last 3/4 years.. if he isn't world class yet he will be when they win another Champions League this season.

Back to back European titles with two completely different teams is pretty amazing. Not a long list of guys who've managed that.

What's he done recently? Sacked by Liverpool after being a one season wonder, and jumped ship at Inter after a shocking start.

Managers are judged on what they've done in the last few years, not what they may have done 8/9 years ago. I just don't get why he is considered world class and a true great.

lol

youre being very harsh mate

since that champions league win with liverpool, this team hasnt reached anything yet.

due to the financial problems, liverpool is now there, where it is currently.

doesnt have anything to do with benitez'ability.

the squad got older and needed some fresh and quality signings, but the liverpool board couldnt afford anything.

just look at liverpool now! even though they've spent millions of dollars and have had 2-3 coaches after rafa, they still are not better than rafa's last season with liverpool!

@inter: this wasnt really a matter of rafa being a bad manager. it was just simply a big mistake by moratti to not spend and improve the team, which got older, which got complacent since winning the treble was the highest to reach for a lot of inter players and instead, they told rafa to play with this team, which mourinho created and badly fullfilled rafa's wishes.

now, rafa's gone, what has inter achieved since then?

nothing...

so it isnt only a matter of having a good manager or not, the board and the team plays an important role aswell.

just because villas boas didnt have success with chelsea, it doesnt mean, that he isnt a class manager.

but if you dont sign the players he wants and give him an overrated team and expect success, you are going to be disappointed later...

I meant IRL.

Only Rijkaard can probably be considered a fluke i suppose, Benítez won two Spanish Leagues with Valencia and got to two Champions League finals in 3 years that takes some doing.

I think Guardiola is already World Class as well, he picked up a Barcelona team that finished 3rd and went on to win an amazing amount of trophies on the last 3/4 years.. if he isn't world class yet he will be when they win another Champions League this season.

Guardiola needs to prove, that he can have success with other teams aswell!

Otherwise I will never call him a world class manager.

Guardiola needs to prove, that he can have success with other teams aswell!

Otherwise I will never call him a world class manager.

So by your standards Busby, Shankly and Paisley was not world class managers because they only truly had success with one club?

Guardiola isn't world class because his players are great.

Messi isn't an all time great because Xavi and Iniesta are great.

Xavi isn't that great because Barcelona's system enables him to complete thousands of passes.

Does. Not. Compute.

So by your standards Busby, Shankly and Paisley was not world class managers because they only truly had success with one club?

with one club, but not with 11 world class individuals

none, but none of the teams of the last 2-3 decades had 11 or even more players, who could be the star in every single team.

just have a look at the barca team!

xavi, iniesta, busquets, fabregas, villa, messi, dani alves, abidal, pique, puyol, alexis sanchez, yaya toure, henry and so on... all of them, but really all of them are absolute world class.

can you remember any other team of the last decade, that had so many superb individuals in a team?

even real in its galacticos time didnt have more than 6-7 world class heros in its team.

so, therefore I wrote, that he needs to have success with another team, which hasnt the likes of fabregas, xavi, iniesta, messi and so on at the same time

with one club, but not with 11 world class individuals

none, but none of the teams of the last 2-3 decades had 11 or even more players, who could be the star in every single team.

just have a look at the barca team!

xavi, iniesta, busquets, fabregas, villa, messi, dani alves, abidal, pique, puyol, alexis sanchez, yaya toure, henry and so on... all of them, but really all of them are absolute world class.

can you remember any other team of the last decade, that had so many superb individuals in a team?

even real in its galacticos time didnt have more than 6-7 world class heros in its team.

so, therefore I wrote, that he needs to have success with another team, which hasnt the likes of fabregas, xavi, iniesta, messi and so on at the same time

edit: rafa won the cl with the likes of steve finnan, traore, riise, kewell and baros... dont get me wrong, they are all quality players, but non of them were really ever world class. but still, this just shows, that there is a quality manager managing this team and having so much success with such a team. mourinho won the cl and europa league in a row with porto. sure, porto had a great talented team, but still not that individual power, which other top class english, spanish or italian teams had. ferguson managed to win the champions league twice and got a couple of final appearances with a manchester united team, which had carrick, park, the oldies giggs, scholes and so on... this deserves much more respect than just dominating the world football with xavi and co.

even the spanish national team profits from it.

del bosque surely is a great manager, but why does nobody talk about his achievements, or why does nobody talk about the succes of aragones? there, its sure, its the spanish national team, they have the likes of xavi and co. so succes is ingrained, but when it comes to guardiola, these same people start defending the thesis, that it isnt only due to xavi and iniesta and so on, that guardiola is one of the best managers...

I shan't post what I think of him on here as I will get banned. I just wish he would get off our football TV programmes and I really hope he never comes back to English football.

I know he has a good record but in the past 4-5 years he has achieved nothing so wouldn't consider him world class. A lot of his signings for Liverpool have been awful and funnily enough Kenny Daglish's have been even worse but he won't get any stick as he is (rightly) worshiped by Liverpool fans and Carling Cup win disguises thier appauling league form.

I shan't post what I think of him on here as I will get banned. I just wish he would get off our football TV programmes and I really hope he never comes back to English football.

I know he has a good record but in the past 4-5 years he has achieved nothing so wouldn't consider him world class. A lot of his signings for Liverpool have been awful and funnily enough Kenny Daglish's have been even worse but he won't get any stick as he is (rightly) worshiped by Liverpool fans and Carling Cup win disguises thier appauling league form.

So, would you wish the same for AVB?

Who would you consider as "World Class"?

Uptonpark: I actually agree with you that Guardiola needs to prove that he can be successfull over time in order to be considered a truly great manager. That he at the moment of time has done a wonderfull job at Barca is clear to anyone. However he has never really had to overcome adversity before.

It will really be interesting to see if can manage to get Barca back on top next year if Real win the title this year.

I consider a great manager to be a person that copes really well when things are not going your way. That are able to turn their fortune around.

When it comes to Benitez. There is a reason why so many Man Utd fans was sad when he got fired. He did a good job at Valencia, and had a lot of luck when he won the CL with Liverpool. But there was also a lot of odd tactical choices and weird signings when he was at Liverpool. And it was not all due to lack of funds as some Liverpool fans always try to claim.

The truth is that Liverpool under Benitez spent a lot of money on average players. That he later sold them in order to afford purchasing even more average players is not a point in his favour.

Benitez, bought a lot of players while at Liverpool, because he wanted 2 players to compete for each position.

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/index.php?act=mostrarBlog&id_autor=1&idioma=in - Pretty good website.

Sounds like the way I play FM.

I shan't post what I think of him on here as I will get banned. I just wish he would get off our football TV programmes and I really hope he never comes back to English football.

I know he has a good record but in the past 4-5 years he has achieved nothing so wouldn't consider him world class. A lot of his signings for Liverpool have been awful and funnily enough Kenny Daglish's have been even worse but he won't get any stick as he is (rightly) worshiped by Liverpool fans and Carling Cup win disguises thier appauling league form.

Thankyou. Finally somebody with some sense.

Benitez is NOT world class. He's done absolutely sod all recently to suggest anything otherwise.

He is a distinctly average manager, that really is it. End of discussion.

Benitez, bought a lot of players while at Liverpool, because he wanted 2 players to compete for each position.

http://www.rafabenitez.com/web/index.php?act=mostrarBlog&id_autor=1&idioma=in - Pretty good website.

And when the two players competing for each place are equally average you do not win titles.

Uptonpark: I actually agree with you that Guardiola needs to prove that he can be successfull over time in order to be considered a truly great manager. That he at the moment of time has done a wonderfull job at Barca is clear to anyone. However he has never really had to overcome adversity before.

It will really be interesting to see if can manage to get Barca back on top next year if Real win the title this year.

I consider a great manager to be a person that copes really well when things are not going your way. That are able to turn their fortune around.

When it comes to Benitez. There is a reason why so many Man Utd fans was sad when he got fired. He did a good job at Valencia, and had a lot of luck when he won the CL with Liverpool. But there was also a lot of odd tactical choices and weird signings when he was at Liverpool. And it was not all due to lack of funds as some Liverpool fans always try to claim.

The truth is that Liverpool under Benitez spent a lot of money on average players. That he later sold them in order to afford purchasing even more average players is not a point in his favour.

In fairness, there's a difference between 'the truth' and truth in your opinion. Think the bloke gets much unfair stick to be honest.

@ Robioto - Everton fans opinions of him are comical considering their acceptance of mediocrity at best in The Moysiah.

I agree Benitez is not world class, but if you base it on overall record & current form, there isn't many who are.

In fairness, there's a difference between 'the truth' and truth in your opinion. Think the bloke gets much unfair stick to be honest.

@ Robioto - Everton fans opinions of him are comical considering their acceptance of mediocrity at best in The Moysiah.

I agree Benitez is not world class, but if you base it on overall record & current form, there isn't many who are.

So Benitez didn't make a lot of odd choices and average signings when he was at Liverpool? Of course it is my opinion, but it's not an opinion that I am alone in is it? I would think that the majority would agree with me although I of course do not have any evidence to support that claim.

It was the last sentence I took issue with, it may be true to an extent but the whole truth it certainly isn't. If you are going to sum his time as Liverpool manager like that you can as easily say, 'the truth is' he signed several good players who became top class players under him and also won the Champions league & fa cup.

The truth probably lies somewhere in between, world class? Probably not. Very good manager? Definitely.

It was the last sentence I took issue with, it may be true to an extent but the whole truth it certainly isn't.

To me it's the truth, maybe I should have said "the truth as I see it" but that was sort og given was it not?.

Anyway now we are only arguing about pedantics as you know perfectly well what I meant.

Rafa was clearly drunk in 2008. Here's the "talent" he identified in the summer:

# Pos Player From Fee Date

27 DF Philipp Degen Borussia Dortmund Free[3] 03-07-2008

2 DF Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04-07-2008

1 GK Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,000,000 11-07-2008

24 FW David N'Gog Paris Saint-Germain £1,500,000 24-07-2008

7 FW Robbie Keane Tottenham Hotspur £19,300,000[4][5] 28-07-2008

TBA FW Vítor Flora Botafogo Free 01-09-2008

42 GK Péter Gulácsi MTK Undisclosed 01-09-2008

11 MF Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000[6] 01-09-2008

Subjective wording is subjective.

How many world class players should there be and by what criteria?

Rafa was clearly drunk in 2008. Here's the "talent" he identified in the summer:

# Pos Player From Fee Date

27 DF Philipp Degen Borussia Dortmund Free[3] 03-07-2008

2 DF Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04-07-2008

1 GK Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,000,000 11-07-2008

24 FW David N'Gog Paris Saint-Germain £1,500,000 24-07-2008

7 FW Robbie Keane Tottenham Hotspur £19,300,000[4][5] 28-07-2008

TBA FW Vítor Flora Botafogo Free 01-09-2008

42 GK Péter Gulácsi MTK Undisclosed 01-09-2008

11 MF Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000[6] 01-09-2008

To be honest he didn't actually want Robbie Keane, but the rest of the list speaks for it self...

In my opinion that is.

Rafa was clearly drunk in 2008. Here's the "talent" he identified in the summer:

# Pos Player From Fee Date

27 DF Philipp Degen Borussia Dortmund Free[3] 03-07-2008

2 DF Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04-07-2008

1 GK Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,000,000 11-07-2008

24 FW David N'Gog Paris Saint-Germain £1,500,000 24-07-2008

7 FW Robbie Keane Tottenham Hotspur £19,300,000[4][5] 28-07-2008

TBA FW Vítor Flora Botafogo Free 01-09-2008

42 GK Péter Gulácsi MTK Undisclosed 01-09-2008

11 MF Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000[6] 01-09-2008

Nothing wrong with Keane or riera it just did't work out for them at Liverpool, as for rafa i agree its hard to put him in the world class bracket but there are't many who are in that, but putting his dodgy transfers and certain tactics aside i dont think his achievements should go un-noticed