Time for a staff overhaul in FM?

Been thinking about this for a while as to why you need so many coaches in FM. Ok your Club may not have too many to start with, which ironically is probably a realistic starting point but you then need to go out and get coaches for everything to approach the 5 stars. Attacking, Defending, Fitness, Ball Control, Two Goalkeeping coaches, the list goes on and on. I was thinking surely in real life a Club doesn't have that many so I decided finally to do a little research. Being a West Ham fan that of course was my first point of call. So I looked into it and these are the staff at The Boleyn Ground :

Manager.......................Sam Allardyce

Assistant Manager..........Neil McDonald

First Team Coach...........Wally Downes

Goalkeeping Coach .........Martyn Margetson

Development Coach........Ian Hendon

Director Of Youth Aca.....Tony Carr

Head of Sports Medicine..Andy Rolls

Fitness Coach................Eamon Swift

Medical Officers..............Richard Weiler MBChB, MRCGP MSc Sport & Exercise Medicine (Dist), MFSEM (UK)

...................................Sean Howlett MBBS, MRCGP

Head of Performance........David Woodfine

That's less than you start with in FM and far less than the Assistant, Two First Team, Three Coaches, Two Goalkeeping coaches, Two Fitness and Three Youth I have presently up to my allocation.

I then looked into Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea.

Manchester United list Mick Phelan as assistant manager, Richard Hawkins as Head of human performance, Brian McClair is United's Academy Director, Paul McGuinness is coach of United’s Under-18 team, Rene Meulensteen as a first team coach, Goalkeeping Coach Eric Steele and Rob Swire is Head Physiotherapist.

Manchester City have Brian Kidd as Assistant, David Platt as First Team coach, Attilio Lombardo as a coach, Fausto Salsano as a coach, Fitness coach Ivan Carminati and Massimo Battara as a Goalkeeping Coach.

Chelsea have Steve Holland - Assistant first team coach, Eddie Newton - Assistant first team coach, Michael Emenalo - Technical director, Christophe Lollichon - Goalkeeper coach, Chris Jones - First team fitness coach, Paco Biosca - Medical director, Dermot Drummy - Reserve team manager, Adi Viveash - Youth team manager

Now trawling through all that information I did find others who worked either on the medical side or at Academy/Youth Level but on First Team Level certainly I noted that there are far less staff in real life than the allocations allowed in FM. So you don't need a coach for every mortal thing. For example an Attacking coach should be more than competent in coaching shooting or a Goalkeeping coach should be able to coach all aspects of goalkeeping rather than just one part of it.

Surely coaches need to be more able to multi task as it seems impossible at most Clubs in FM to have a top class backroom staff on the default numbers that you start with which as I say are the realistic levels.

All you need again in my opinion is an Assistant, Two First Team Coaches Max, A Goalkeeping Coach, Two Reserve Team Coaches Max, Maximum of two Youth Team coaches a Chief Physio and maybe one assistant physio. With this change what a coach is good at rather than have individual sections like shooting or ball control. Narrow it down to things like man management and motivation that you already have which I think are underused and throw in maybe categories like Player Development or link more coaching aspects to the style of play that your team uses like one and two touch play or direct football. I just think that FM uses an unrealistic level of staff than is required to do a suitable job of improving your players.

Thoughts?

I feel that this is not something the manager has any say in at all. That's the director of football's job.

I feel that this is not something the manager has any say in at all. That's the director of football's job.

Not every Club has a Director of Football!!

That's less than you start with in FM

So what are you suggesting? That the researchers have made people up?

He's got a point. In FM, you need a lot of coaches in order to achieve the best possible training. This is not very realistic, and even the top clubs do not hire that many coaches - and I'm sure they would if they felt there was a need for it to achieve maximum coaching quality. But they don't.

Not saying that. Merely pointing out that on Official sites the info I can spot regards to staff is what I have posted. Jerome John for instance is listed as a goalkeeping coach at West Ham. I googled him as he isn't listed on West Ham's staff on the Official site. On Google he comes up as joining West Ham as a back up keeper around 2007 and coached Academy kids but that's as far as I can see bar standing in for Ludo Miklosko when he was off injured with a bad back. No idea if he is still at West Ham but it doesn't look like he is part of the First Team set up like he is on FM. I may be totally wrong.

It may be the case that a lot of Academy or Youth Staff are placed in the game as part of the First Team and also it's very possible that Clubs employ a lot of first team staff that they just don't list on Official sites.

All I have gone by is by who I can find listed Officially.

And anyway that's just my point. There are not many staff at your Club at the start of the game. Probably real life staff, but you can't get anywhere near 5 stars with those original coaches so you have to go out and get in silly numbers which the Clubs don't IRL have.

also it's very possible that Clubs employ a lot of first team staff that they just don't list on Official sites.

Agree that too many staff are needed for great training, however I do think there are more staff than are listed on the official sites. Someone who knows a bit more about one of these clubs will pipe in I'm sure.

Ok, but I am saying that.

In order to achieve maximum coaching quality for your 1.st team in FM, you need 10 coaches. 1 for each training area + 1 set to train everything, to guarantee light workload. I don't know any football club that employs that many coaches just to train their 1.st team.

The above is if FM let you hire all these coaches as coaches, and not have to separate them into 1.st team and youth coaches. If FM don't let you have that many coaches, you have to hire additional youth and/or 1.st team coaches.

Like you said yourself, it should be enough with a couple of 1.st team coaches in addition to the ass.man, GK and fitness coach, to take care of everything. And a couple of youth team coaches. All these coaches you need to hire to get 5 stars everywhere and ensure light workload, is way over the top. I don't think Barcelona have 10 coaches to train their 1.st team players, and I do think Barcelona has the equivalent to FM's 5 stars training everywhere - don't you?

Ok, but I am saying that.

In order to achieve maximum coaching quality for your 1.st team in FM, you need 10 coaches. 1 for each training area + 1 set to train everything, to guarantee light workload. I don't know any football club that employs that many coaches just to train their 1.st team.

The above is if FM let you hire all these coaches as coaches, and not have to separate them into 1.st team and youth coaches. If FM don't let you have that many coaches, you have to hire additional youth and/or 1.st team coaches.

Like you said yourself, it should be enough with a couple of 1.st team coaches in addition to the ass.man, GK and fitness coach, to take care of everything. And a couple of youth team coaches. All these coaches you need to hire to get 5 stars everywhere and ensure light workload, is way over the top. I don't think Barcelona have 10 coaches to train their 1.st team players, and I do think Barcelona has the equivalent to FM's 5 stars everywhere - don't you?

Totally agree. Sorry my other post I was replying to the one above and forgot to hit reply with quote. I totally agree with you. As I said above FM starts you out with say 5 coaches which if the researchers are correct that is the realistic level. But to get 5 stars you need to go out and get more coaches which could be as many as 6,7 or 8 more than what you had to start with. So as you quite rightly say double what is perceived at the start as a realistic number.

Ah, ok then - confusion over

It's the goalkeeping coaches area that bugs me. Surely even the worst GK coaches could train shot stopping and handling without it taking away their ability to do the job? I mean they are almost hand in hand areas and they have 4/5 players to train at the most!

It's the goalkeeping coaches area that bugs me. Surely even the worst GK coaches could train shot stopping and handling without it taking away their ability to do the job? I mean they are almost hand in hand areas and they have 4/5 players to train at the most!

Indeed. At most you would have one First Team Goalkeeping coach and maybe someone to collect the balls!!

Staff are useless in FM! They always have been. I've even tested them with editors and discovered they don't make a blind bit of difference! Or if they do its minimal.

Staff are useless in FM! They always have been. I've even tested them with editors and discovered they don't make a blind bit of difference! Or if they do its minimal.

I'm inclined to agree with this, in fact I'd go as far as to say there is a lot in FM that doesn't actually do anything, it's just there to give us a few more buttons to click and make it sound more interesting.

I agree with the OP- you shouldn't have to hire a silly amount of staff to get good training. For a lower league club hire an ass man, a first team coach, youth coach, physio- what more should you need to get decent training?

Agree with this.

For example with the goalkeeper training: with only one coach you should be able to achive a 5 star training in handling and stop shooting.

The same for the strenght and aerobic training. With only one fitness coach you should achive a 5 star training.

He's got a point. In FM, you need a lot of coaches in order to achieve the best possible training. This is not very realistic, and even the top clubs do not hire that many coaches - and I'm sure they would if they felt there was a need for it to achieve maximum coaching quality. But they don't.

I agree with this

But then again training is pretty useless. You just whack in one coach doing everything and he maintains the levels.

Training does not affect CA in any noticeable way. Now for me in real life training helps players become BETTER. In FM it simply re-distributes the attributes. So for me its useless and frankly not needed.

But then again training is pretty useless. You just whack in one coach doing everything and he maintains the levels.

Training does not affect CA in any noticeable way. Now for me in real life training helps players become BETTER. In FM it simply re-distributes the attributes. So for me its useless and frankly not needed.

I believe it helps fitness levels, protecting against jadedness and injuries. There is no documentation of this in-game, though. Just an observation.