Shocking standard of defending

Are there any plans to improve the standard of defence on the game?

I don't even know where to begin - it is that bad. Currently, whenever the other team attack, I fear giving away a goal because the defence just don't do what you ask and you just don't have enough control over them. Why can we not set an actual defensive line? I don't want to guess what 13 clicks means when I could just click on the tactics pitch and tell them the level I want them to play at.

Against the better sides (Tottenham and Lokomotiv Moscow, for example), I play an extremely defensive tactic, hoping to catch them on the counterattack. However, in both matches I should have conceded from pretty much every shot they had. The reason for this was, that despite setting each defender to the lowest mentality, they were always caught up the field or out of position every so slightly, giving the opposition time to run away. I set the opposition instructions based on their attributes (not tightly marking the fast players, but closing them down), but this made very little difference - unless you count them blazing everything over as a plan.

The worst occurrence, for me, is when the defender leaves the ball to sail over his head and bounce kindly for the opposition striker to sprint away and have an uncontested shot. Now, I'm sure people will say that I have a problem with my defensive line - and I do. However, I've already covered that issue. Yes, these sort of incidents should be affected by the rating of the player in question, but at least tone down the frequency with which it occurs.

Another issue that I've witnessed is players standing in the same spot. In case you don't know what it is, it's when both central defenders stand in the exact same space, so that you can only see one of them. Against Lokomotiv this happened to me, allowing their player a free passage at goal. When, in the history of ever, have you seen two players holding hands during the match?

Other issues:

Defenders not picking up players despite being assigned one - individual assignments are needed

Can't set the width of the defence (independently of attack)

Defenders recklessly tackling players running out of the box towards the wing

[video=youtube;RaiPFd-G1IE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaiPFd-G1IE

Generally looking vulnerable from every single cross

Looking vulnerable from every single corner

Looking vulnerable from free kicks

Poor quality, but it shows a huge flaw. I play a short passing game, yet he boots it straight to an opposition player.

[video=youtube;9UY9XvpHU5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UY9XvpHU5A

Might be useful making the videos public if you are posting examples!

From this post, and all your others, it seems to me that you have no idea how some of the sliders work and are just guessing. That is why you see such poor decision making from your players. You are giving them conflicting instructions, which means they'll be all over the place in positioning and movement.

Might be useful making the videos public if you are posting examples!

From this post, and all your others, it seems to me that you have no idea how some of the sliders work and are just guessing. That is why you see such poor decision making from your players. You are giving them conflicting instructions, which means they'll be all over the place in positioning and movement.

The videos are now public. How am I supposed to know how they work when they are just numbers? What is the difference between normal (10) and deep (9)? The game doesn't tell you what the difference is, so it is pure guess work. I have 3 more examples to post from my most recent European match. I was 2-0 and 3-1 up, but somehow drew 3-3 against 10-man Sparta Prague. The goals that I conceded were just a joke.

Stats

Tactics

Formation

Analysis of shots

[video=youtube;ScwXwWaJCqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwXwWaJCqQ

I told them to mark the attacking players tightly and, well, just see for yourselves. The second goal is much worse than it appears - he stands with the ball for a good 5-7 seconds before being dispossessed.

Now, although this may come as a surprise, I can handle losing and drawing matches when it's deserved. Hell, I would have taken a point at the start of the game, but when goals like this happen it detracts from any enjoyment. This should supersede tactics, as it usually does when they put it in 'row z'.

[video=youtube;flMbEpTY388]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flMbEpTY388

The videos are now public. How am I supposed to know how they work when they are just numbers? What is the difference between normal (10) and deep (9)? The game doesn't tell you what the difference is, so it is pure guess work. I have 3 more examples to post from my most recent European match. I was 2-0 and 3-1 up, but somehow drew 3-3 against 10-man Sparta Prague. The goals that I conceded were just a joke.

I suggest you stop using a downloaded "super-tactic", which, by the way, looks bloody awful and is indicative of the kind of system that tries to win through exploiting ME holes (who plays 5-1-3-1!!!), and start using the TC to think about how you should play. If you trust the TC, you never need to worry about slider clicks. Just play logical strategies, roles, duties and shouts. It is not rocket science.

Do you use the same strategy when you are 3-1 up as you do when you start the game? Could be your biggest problem if that's the case.

Do you use the same strategy when you are 3-1 up as you do when you start the game? Could be your biggest problem if that's the case.

The problem is that he has a deep d-line with no midfield cover. They are basically retreating in front of every attack, giving the opposition the total freedom of the midfield. If the OP has manually set mentalities to the lowest possible, that will make the issue even worse.

I suggest you stop using a downloaded "super-tactic", which, by the way, looks bloody awful and is indicative of the kind of system that tries to win through exploiting ME holes (who plays 5-1-3-1!!!), and start using the TC to think about how you should play. If you trust the TC, you never need to worry about slider clicks. Just play logical strategies, roles, duties and shouts. It is not rocket science.

Erm, I downloaded a tactic and then modified it myself. The only thing that remains of the original tactic, is the name. So, yeah, try not to make assumptions based on false facts. I had 5 defenders because I was away, 1 DM to help cover the back 5 and 3 midfielders to support the lone striker. I wouldn't know how to exploit the ME, even if I tried.

Also, look at their tactic. It's virtually the same one (except they have a player less).

Do you use the same strategy when you are 3-1 up as you do when you start the game? Could be your biggest problem if that's the case.

I don't see how it would be a problem, considering it's the tactic that got me in the lead. I used this tactic because I believed a deep defence would be able to counter any attack.

However, please explain their second goal.

Anyway, please focus on the topic, not the examples. The defending in this game is simply not good enough.

I don't see how it would be a problem, considering it's the tactic that got me in the lead.

Because at 3-1 down they would have become more gung ho than at 0-0, and with your deep defensive line and high midfield, any attacking tactic against you will rip you to pieces, as Sparta proved.

Erm, I downloaded a tactic and then modified it myself. The only thing that remains of the original tactic, is the name. So, yeah, try not to make assumptions based on false facts. I had 5 defenders because I was away, 1 DM to help cover the back 5 and 3 midfielders to support the lone striker. I wouldn't know how to exploit the ME, even if I tried.

Then your modifications have made it much, much worse. I checked through the tactic support thread and Elrithral's logic and ideas are very good. Quite how you've changed his system into this!!

I said it looks like an ME exploit tactic. They typically keep six men deep, have four men in the AMC/F strata, and play direct passes. This generally guarantees an advantage in shot count as it crowds out AI tactics as they go forward, while exposes them at the back by getting the ball forward to men that artificially stay too high. You might have stumbled on it by accident, but that will be how you are getting results.

However, by dropping on extra man into the D strata, lowering mentalities and vacating central midfield, you are asking the opposition to attack you.

My advice to you is to stick to recognised formations, TC setting only (do not make any manual slider tweaks yourself, as you don't know what you are doing), and employ logical strategies based on the match. If you are playing away, keep men behind the ball and try to clog the midfield up. At home, open things up a bit more and try to impose a more technical, aggressive game. Over time, you'll then start to work things out. Currently, you are beating yourself by trying to be hugely over complex. KISS should be your motto.

Further, you need to try to lose some of your forum attitude. A lot of people here can really help you as long as you are prepared to listen. Taking a snarky tone because you don't agree with the minutiae of the advice you get is not going to win you any friends.

I don't see how it would be a problem, considering it's the tactic that got me in the lead. I used this tactic because I believed a deep defence would be able to counter any attack.

However, please explain their second goal.

Simple to explain. Your midfield ran out of options because of the opposition pressing and you not having any central midfielders. Your team was forced into playing the ball back to the central defender, who then had no passing options because the midfield was covered, the man next to him was just as likely to be closed down as he was and was also blocking the pass out wide to the FB. Yes, he should have cleared it, but the reason he got caught in possession is 100% down to your system providing him with no passing options.

Simple to explain. Your midfield ran out of options because of the opposition pressing and you not having any central midfielders. Your team was forced into playing the ball back to the central defender, who then had no passing options because the midfield was covered, the man next to him was just as likely to be closed down as he was and was also blocking the pass out wide to the FB. Yes, he should have cleared it, but the reason he got caught in possession is 100% down to your system providing him with no passing options.

Because at 3-1 down they would have become more gung ho than at 0-0, and with your deep defensive line and high midfield, any attacking tactic against you will rip you to pieces, as Sparta proved.

So you don't bother tweaking the tactic at all when you are ahead? The AI sure as hell will tweak theirs depending on the situation. Maybe you would find FIFA manager more enjoyable.

They had 10 men at 3-1 and a very similar formation as the screenshot shows. The defender had plenty of options, but just stood on the ball, which is just ridiculous to me (a former defender). We had shots cleared off the line, so the formation was still working as intended in an attacking sense. However, defensively they were all over the shop and playing nowhere near as I planned. The intention was for the DM to facilitate the defence staying deeper and in shape. As the third goal demonstrated though, they were too wide (hence why I want independent width sliders).

1: A formation is not a tactic. The strategy, duties and roles the AI team is employing will make it play very differently to yours. Your problem is the poor duty structure, plus the retreating d-line.

2: As I said, he should have cleared it. However, the reason he was caught in possession is your system not providing passing options out of defence. Why he chose to keep hold of the ball under pressure can relate to many other things (nervousness, composure, mentality etc).

3: You will never defend well with no midfield cover. You are just asking the opposition to run at a retreating line. They won't need to be asked twice.

4: A five man back line will, by default, be wider than a four man back line.

5: It will always be dangerous in attack because of the things I outlined in post # 14, paragraph 2.

Then your modifications have made it much, much worse. I checked through the tactic support thread and Elrithral's logic and ideas are very good. Quite how you've changed his system into this!!I said it looks like an ME exploit tactic. They typically keep six men deep, have four men in the AMC/F strata, and play direct passes. This generally guarantees an advantage in shot count as it crowds out AI tactics as they go forward, while exposes them at the back by getting the ball forward to men that artificially stay too high. You might have stumbled on it by accident, but that will be how you are getting results. However, by dropping on extra man into the D strata, lowering mentalities and vacating central midfield, you are asking the opposition to attack you. My advice to you is to stick to recognised formations, TC setting only (do not make any manual slider tweaks yourself, as you don't know what you are doing), and employ logical strategies based on the match. If you are playing away, keep men behind the ball and try to clog the midfield up. At home, open things up a bit more and try to impose a more technical, aggressive game. Over time, you'll then start to work things out. Currently, you are beating yourself by trying to be hugely over complex. KISS should be your motto. Further, you need to try to lose some of your forum attitude. A lot of people here can really help you as long as you are prepared to listen. Taking a snarky tone because you don't agree with the minutiae of the advice you get is not going to win you any friends.

Every decision and change made has been carefully considered. Against Tottenham and Lokomotiv I used a slightly different tactic, without the inclusion of the 5th defender, DM or the AMC. I presumed that a more direct game would suit the counter mentality and the AMC would help the transition from defence to attack by dropping in the holes. The packed defence was supposed to play deep but maintain the shape and close down any imminent threats. The DM was supposed to act as a buffer and force them to use the wings more than the middle.

I don't know what you mean by 'crowds out AI tactics' though.

I wouldn't say I have an 'attitude' but, generally, I'm making these threads in the aftermath of something annoying - which rubs off on the way I come across.

What manual slider changes have you made?

So you don't bother tweaking the tactic at all when you are ahead? The AI sure as hell will tweak theirs depending on the situation. Maybe you would find FIFA manager more enjoyable.

Your style of play is rather poor but whatever man.

What manual slider changes have you made?

I don't know what you mean by 'crowds out AI tactics' though.

Pack the M &/or DM strata to help ensure you win the midfield battle.

Your style of play is rather poor but whatever man.

To what?This tactic? Everything. Nothing is the same as when I downloaded it.

Yes. If I don't know exactly what manual slider changes you have made, I can't give you the best advice. Given you don't take kindly to people making assumptions, you'll need to explain exactly what you've done in order to ensure I'm right in what I'm saying. I suspect you have manually set your individual player mentalities, but I don't know for sure.

Pack the M &/or DM strata to help ensure you win the midfield battle.

I don't see what is wrong with that, especially when you see it in real life. Also, isn't that what the 4-6-0 is for? Would a 4-2-3-1 be seen as an exploit?

There's nothing wrong with it, which is why I suggested you do it, rather than only have one man in those strata combined!

The systems only exploit if they are set up a certain way. The formations aren't exploit systems per se, only when they attack and defend in a specific pattern.

Yes. If I don't know exactly what manual slider changes you have made, I can't give you the best advice. Given you don't take kindly to people making assumptions, you'll need to explain exactly what you've done in order to ensure I'm right in what I'm saying. I suspect you have manually set your individual player mentalities, but I don't know for sure.

I'm on the phone now, but I have all the defenders at the minimum mentality with the instruction to close down 'in own area'. Every player has 'rarely' for long shots and a few midfielders have 'sometimes' for through balls. The actual formation is very deep (3 or 4), very slow with a normal (10) width. I don't play offside and I focus on the middle for passing.

Passing length?

There's nothing wrong with it, which is why I suggested you do it, rather than only have one man in those strata combined!The systems only exploit if they are set up a certain way. The formations aren't exploit systems per se, only when they attack and defend in a specific pattern.

Passing length?

Ah, see I don't have any idea how to exploit the ME. If I did stumble upon a way, I've already lost it by changing the tactic. Would you recommend a 4-2-3-1?

I'd recommend whatever formation you like in real life.

Generally mixed.

Attacking and midfield mentalities? Passing length of the DCs? Do any of the DCs have the 'plays short, simple passes' PPM?

Attacking and midfield mentalities? Passing length of the DCs? Do any of the DCs have the 'plays short, simple passes' PPM?

By having attacking mentalities for the front 4 and very defensive ones for the back six, you are achieving two things. Firstly, you are moving into ME exploit territory as those setting artificially and unrealistically keep the front four high. This results in your being able to keep six men deep and take advantage of the extra space your front men get as the AI pushes its FBs/WBs forward. The failure of the AM strata to retreat is an ME flaw.

However, although you are getting an inherent advantage, you are also playing a very incoherent game. The logic of strategy settings means that basically the whole team understands how they are approaching the match. For example, if the strategy is counter, the whole team realises that the team will keep possession relatively deep and look to break at pace when the opportunity arises. Attacking means they'll try to get forward quickly and in numbers. Defend means they'll try to stay behind the ball and only attack when there's little risk of being caught out at the back. And so on.

You have done the equivalent of telling your attackers the team is going to be aggressive, sent them out on the pitch, then told the rest of the team the match strategy is to shut up shop. Consequently, although the exploit makes the tactic successful, play will generally be ugly and disjointed.

Further, you have told the defence to drop deep into the box before making any attempt to tackle. You have given them no midfield cover. They will get caught out time and time again by any AI tactic that tries to dominate the midfield and run at the defence. In FML, I'd have destroyed your type of system by sitting deep, packing the defence and central midfield, then countering at pace down the flanks. However, the AI isn't quite that sophisticated just yet. Despite this lack of sophistication, at certain scorelines, it can accidently discover the type of system that undoes your setup.

If you look at the 2nd goal you conceded against Sparta with the following in mind, you'll understand what happened.

1: You told the AM and F strata the team was attacking. Consequently, as you got the ball they tried to move into aggressive attacking positions. Watch your left winger push forward onto the shoulder of the FB.

2: However, you've told the DCs to make no risky passes and given them no freedom to override those instructions. Consequently, as the pass forward is to the winger is deemed to be a risky one the ball is played back to the DC.

3: The DC in possession looks to his left for a pass. However, it isn't on as there is a risk his DCL will be immediately closed down and is also blocking the out pass to the FB. He then turns inside to look for his DMC.

4: Once he sees the pass to the DMC is also risky, he starts to look to his right. By then, he's being closed down on his blind side by the Sparta attacker. He then loses the ball and the rest is history.

Also look at the first goal, with none of your players willing to close down outside of the box, giving Sparta freedom to pass the ball across the back line, and the 3rd goal, when the whole line backs off allowing the ball carrier to pick his pass to the breaking attacker.

There are some other issues, but these are the key problems you have and the fundamental reason you are struggling to defend. The players are defending badly by obeying your instructions, which are bad, not because the ME defending is horrible. That's not to say it couldn't be better, as it patently could, but that the reason it is so bad for you is because of you and your instructions.

Sorry for going off topic a bit here, but the exploit talk is weird. Everything you do tactically that the AI cannot do could be considered an exploit. All the TC does in that sense is put us on a level playground by forcing the same weaknesses on us that the AI has to deal with.

For example, I like to play the classic 4-4-2 with one striker deep, one far up - big man/little man combo. But the default flat version has a few issues that stick out like a sore thumb and make it more vulnerable than it should be. The positioning of the CMd for one. No matter what role you give him he won't hold position or screen the back four effectively without getting caught out. He also sticks to one side of the pitch as if he's glued down to it and ignores opposition players charging at the back four down the other side. So what I do is drop him into DMC position while leaving the more attacking midfielder to CMR or CML. Now I have a defensive minded midfielder that screens the back four, holds position and reacts to threats on both sides of the pitch. There's also more space for the other MC to operate in and for the deep lying forward to drop into. I still have the classic 4-4-2 but it's way more compact and flexible. The AI however can't do what I have done so I'm guessing according to wwfan I'm exploiting the ME. I also always change the TC settings that make little sense and harm the way I play. Like the one that has hold up ball ticked for deep midfielders but gives them no options to play out when getting caught in possession (how do you hold the ball 'up' deep in midfield anyway?) Or having it ticked for the deeper of two forwards. Why would I want *him* to hold it up when he's usually supposed to have players ahead of him? etc. All I do is react to weaknesses of the TC tactics and correct them. I could just ignore all that of course and continue to pull my hair out in frustration when some of the above screws my team over - being non-exploitative. I'd also be defeating the purpose of the game which is to beat the other team.

You would think that setting Mentality to 1 (minimum) and Closing Down to very low (3-4 as you said) and a very deep Defensive Line would make you defend better. This is wrong, however. You know that this is wrong since you don't defend better, yet you still believe that your tactical instructions are good - there's some faulty logic right there.

Anyways, it seems, from WWfans comments, that the tactic you downloaded is quite similar to the one I have used for roughly a year now. I have created two more tactics to accompany it when I need a different approach. One where the wingers are pulled back and the entire team is more defensive, and one where one striker (in your case the AMC) is subbed for an extra defender and the whole team is even more defensive. This 5-4-1 tactic usually defends very well. The problem is, like WWfan says, that you have no midfielders and you tell your defenders to back up whenever an opponent midfielder has the ball. That's an extreme disadvantage!

Defending mentality = don't let players use the space behind you, play the ball sideways not forward, don't risk a tackle unless you know you will win the challenge

Low Closing Down = wait until the opponents are near your position before running towards him, don't try to win possession high up the pitch

Low Defensive Line = make sure that there is no space behind you, run back to the 16-meter box and hold position

So you have ultra-passive defenders and no midfielders to press the opposing players, meaning they will have all the time in the world to do what they need to break your defense down. The lack of midfielders forces your defenders to run out of position to press them, but their instructions are not to try to win possession, so they will break formation and do so for no real purpose. The original 4-2-0-3-1 tactic (I assume) would have been much better at defending than the current one. If you want to defend with that tactic, move the AMRLC's to midfield positions, drop deeper and lower Closing Down a bit, as well as playing more narrowly. If you want to -really- defend, sub the AMC for a DC, drop even deeper etc.

If you are 3-1 up against a 10-man side, why would you change anything? A tip - never change a winning tactic, unless you observe undesired tendencies of course...

If you are 3-1 up against a 10-man side, why would you change anything? A tip - never change a winning tactic, unless you observe undesired tendencies of course...

I usually dont change a winning tactic either if I can see we are playing well and conceded a stupid goal. I always have faith

I always tweak with the time wasting and tempo sliders once we go up, Try to maintain possesion while keeping my stamina levels high to avoid injury and keep my players fresh for future matches.

Guys, the defending on FM 12 is indefensible. Come on, seriously, I've used all different types of tactics, won leagues at lower level and at the top level and the goals I concede are horrific. Players leaving men free, not putting a tackle in, getting turned easily, reacting like they're 30 stone in weight, weak at heading and sometimes 2 players marking one striker and leaving another one to run through on goal!!!!!!!! These aren't rare, they always happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The defending on the ME has ruined FM12 for me. Absolutely shocking.

So you don't bother tweaking the tactic at all when you are ahead? The AI sure as hell will tweak theirs depending on the situation. Maybe you would find FIFA manager more enjoyable.

I've grown tired of the 'Go play FIFA manager instead' jabs. If you wanna help someone with a problem, help them. If they don't want to listen, ignore them. If they become an issue, I'm sure the mods will take care of them.

That said, I agree with everyone else. The OP left way too much space in the midfield for the opposition (whom he said are of greater quality) to exploit. If he had been playing the likes of Barca or Real, he could have lost by 7 or 8.

Guys, the defending on FM 12 is indefensible. Come on, seriously, I've used all different types of tactics, won leagues at lower level and at the top level and the goals I concede are horrific. Players leaving men free, not putting a tackle in, getting turned easily, reacting like they're 30 stone in weight, weak at heading and sometimes 2 players marking one striker and leaving another one to run through on goal!!!!!!!! These aren't rare, they always happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The defending on the ME has ruined FM12 for me. Absolutely shocking.

The animations are just awful. Funny part is it's easy to set up a tactic and not concede many goals, but the general inability of players to do BASIC FUNDAMENTAL THINGS is crazy. I've had a lot of success in the last few versions, but it's still so frustrating and cringe-worthy to watch. Part of the problem is unrealistic ball trajectory, which means so many 50-60 yard passes arrow into a striker's path. The ball doesn't float, so you see defensive clearances travel a mile at speed and clear defences.

No combination of sliders should cause a player to stand still when a ball comes over the top, or run the wrong way, or not track a run correctly, or my personal favourite - stay back at a corner, yet make no attempt to mark the lone AI striker who has stayed forward. These are things you're taught as a six-year-old.

Sorry for going off topic a bit here, but the exploit talk is weird. Everything you do tactically that the AI cannot do could be considered an exploit. All the TC does in that sense is put us on a level playground by forcing the same weaknesses on us that the AI has to deal with.

For example, I like to play the classic 4-4-2 with one striker deep, one far up - big man/little man combo. But the default flat version has a few issues that stick out like a sore thumb and make it more vulnerable than it should be. The positioning of the CMd for one. No matter what role you give him he won't hold position or screen the back four effectively without getting caught out. He also sticks to one side of the pitch as if he's glued down to it and ignores opposition players charging at the back four down the other side. So what I do is drop him into DMC position while leaving the more attacking midfielder to CMR or CML. Now I have a defensive minded midfielder that screens the back four, holds position and reacts to threats on both sides of the pitch. There's also more space for the other MC to operate in and for the deep lying forward to drop into. I still have the classic 4-4-2 but it's way more compact and flexible. The AI however can't do what I have done so I'm guessing according to wwfan I'm exploiting the ME. I also always change the TC settings that make little sense and harm the way I play. Like the one that has hold up ball ticked for deep midfielders but gives them no options to play out when getting caught in possession (how do you hold the ball 'up' deep in midfield anyway?) Or having it ticked for the deeper of two forwards. Why would I want *him* to hold it up when he's usually supposed to have players ahead of him? etc. All I do is react to weaknesses of the TC tactics and correct them. I could just ignore all that of course and continue to pull my hair out in frustration when some of the above screws my team over - being non-exploitative. I'd also be defeating the purpose of the game which is to beat the other team.

The only things I consider "true" exploits are ME holes that enable users to score goal after goal via the exact same pattern of play, which the AI can't do, doesn't recognise and can't stop. That is what the OP's tactic will do. That's also what a number of corner routines achieved in the past.

I realise that's a very specific interpretation and that we could extend it in the manner you are suggesting. You obviously gain an advantage by what you do or you wouldn't be doing it. I doubt, however, you get pattern style goals.

Interesting about the DM "holding up" the ball. I'd certainly argue that many great DMC/MCs hold onto the ball while the team reshapes around them. Would you agree with that? If so, it might be that "hold up ball" is just bad terminology. Would agree about the DLF though. Should only really be the front line forwards that hold the ball up. I will try and get that fixed at some point.

I've grown tired of the 'Go play FIFA manager instead' jabs

Sorry Aderow, forgot that these were your forums. Please forgive me.

The animations are just awful. Funny part is it's easy to set up a tactic and not concede many goals, but the general inability of players to do BASIC FUNDAMENTAL THINGS is crazy. I've had a lot of success in the last few versions, but it's still so frustrating and cringe-worthy to watch. Part of the problem is unrealistic ball trajectory, which means so many 50-60 yard passes arrow into a striker's path. The ball doesn't float, so you see defensive clearances travel a mile at speed and clear defences.

No combination of sliders should cause a player to stand still when a ball comes over the top, or run the wrong way, or not track a run correctly, or my personal favourite - stay back at a corner, yet make no attempt to mark the lone AI striker who has stayed forward. These are things you're taught as a six-year-old.

Players aren't robots in real life therefore you shouldn't expect them to be in FM.

Lets take an example - Runs not being tracked. Just like Llorente's goal last night where he appeared unmarked between three defenders to score.

Interesting about the DM "holding up" the ball. I'd certainly argue that many great DMC/MCs hold onto the ball while the team reshapes around them. Would you agree with that? If so, it might be that "hold up ball" is just bad terminology. Would agree about the DLF though. Should only really be the front line forwards that hold the ball up. I will try and get that fixed at some point.

I mean more specifically the anchor man type players. The ones who get through balls rarely, run with ball rarely, make forward runs rarely, low mentality, low creative freedom. Yet they have to hold the ball up! What exactly are they supposed to do with it under these settings?

I mean more specifically the anchor man type players. The ones who get through balls rarely, run with ball rarely, make forward runs rarely, low mentality, low creative freedom. Yet they have to hold the ball up! What exactly are they supposed to do with it under these settings?

The role was based on how Makalele played, when he'd win the ball in broken play, keep it while the defence regrouped, then lay it off to a more creative player. It might be that we need a new duty. Anchor Man / Limited, who wins the ball and quickly lays it off, and Anchor Man / Composed, who is more likely to keep the ball when the defence is out of shape (or something to that effect).

Guys, the defending on FM 12 is indefensible. Come on, seriously, I've used all different types of tactics, won leagues at lower level and at the top level and the goals I concede are horrific. Players leaving men free, not putting a tackle in, getting turned easily, reacting like they're 30 stone in weight, weak at heading and sometimes 2 players marking one striker and leaving another one to run through on goal!!!!!!!! These aren't rare, they always happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The defending on the ME has ruined FM12 for me. Absolutely shocking.

Yes the defending is awful in FM. But this is the same for all teams, AI and human controlled. It is very possible to defend well in this game, and minimize those errors through a combination of tactics, team talks/morale management and correct squad building.