'Players shoot from range because of a lack of options'

I posted a thread today asking how to reduce the number of long range shots my players take, and I was informatively told that it was due to a lack of options. I asked why they didn't just reset the move, only to be told that 'all of your players are marked' - or words to that effect. So, to end this once and for all, I have analysed my cup final.

Cup Final

Analysis tab

Okay, as you can see, my players are still shooting from range despite them all being manually set to 'rarely'. Going on the theory that it's due to a lack of options, I exported the images to Paint.

From this opportunity, the player in question - Yakovenko - has SIX options. Of course, some of these passes will be harder to achieve, but it shows that he had no reason to shoot.

On this occasion, the player has FIVE options. A simple change of direction would have opened up the left-hand side of the pitch but, instead, he took a shot.

Finally, it's our friend Yakovenko again. He is in a similar position with SIX options open to him again. Does he thread the ball through to the striker? No, he takes a shot and misses.

I think this puts to rest the argument that my players don't have options and are forced to shoot.

So, I'll ask again - how do I minimise the number of long range shots? Will SI implement a 'no long range shooting' option for FM13 to help?

Thank you.

You've drawn 17 black lines - I see 3 maybe 4 possible passes that are on in total. Albeit from screenshots.

While you may or may not have a point, there is no way that these screenshots can prove that, nor do they tell the true frequency that it happens. More importantly the tactics that both you and your opponents are using as well as the stats and ppms of the particular player would need to be seen.

You've drawn 17 black lines - I see 3 maybe 4 possible passes that are on in total. Albeit from screenshots.

You may need to see an optician then. All of those passes would be achievable (not necessarily every time) for a world class midfielder - which my team possesses. Of course it's a screenshot, but it's at the moment they're about to shoot.

While you may or may not have a point, there is no way that these screenshots can prove that, nor do they tell the true frequency that it happens. More importantly the tactics that both you and your opponents are using as well as the stats and ppms of the particular player would need to be seen.

None of my players have a PPM that would cause them to shoot from distance.

An occasion where the shot is acceptable.

it could be because players are greedy.

but the match engine is so stupid sometimes those options are not options

My 'godlike' player

Have you tried with the "work ball into box" shout? It does exactly the same as setting all players to shoot long rarely, but worth a try. (Or, of course - make sure "shoot on sight" shout is not in use). You could also try give your players - ALL of them - 0 creative freedom and see how that goes. You may have given some of your players too much creative freedom, and they may not have the mental stats to make the right decisions. You could also try giving your central midfielders more fredom to try thru balls, and your wingers and other attacking players forward runs often. Or use the "play through defense" or "run at defence" shout - just to see what happens with long shots.

But I must say I have never come across this problem in FM 12. I have all my players shoot long rarely, and it is rare that I see someone does. Only occasionally, and then with good cause.

Have you tried with the "work ball into box" shout?

I tend to have this shout 'on' for well over 50% of most matches.

i just had a player use a long throw to throw into an empty 18 yard box instead of the 1 open midfielder... but then it was away and players turn into morons.

Post 1

Screenshot 1: Every pass bar one risks the intercept. The one that doesn't requires the player to have eyes in the back of his head and the ability to hit a 30 reverse pass, probably on his wrong foot, with no momentum on the ball.

Screenshot 2: Every pass risks the intercept. Anything to his left is a suicide pass. The only pass in front that might be on will look offside to the passer.

Screenshot 3: Can certainly pass to his right and to man in front. Angled pass into area looks offside. Shot is viable, although as he's being told not to shoot, other passing options probably should have been taken. However, the ones wide right might not be if he's being told to pass very short.

Post 6

Screenshot 1: All passes to his right are risking being intercepted or putting the receiver under pressure. Pass ahead risks offside. Pass into channel is open and would be a great option, but it will require very good vision to pick it. Pass left he can't see.

Screenshot 2: All the passes risk being intercepted or having the receiver put under great pressure. With no cover back, the shot is the most viable option. The curled pass into the box is 100% not on and would be a horrendous decision.

Screenshot 3: I'd be upset if this player shot. Might be worth checking his tactical instructions to see if he has passing / dribbling options allowed. He does have a pretty poor teamwork attribute, which might be the reason.

Screenshot 4: Although the passes ahead and short right don't look too bad, in each case the man is relatively tightly covered and the pass risks being intercepted. There's no midfield cover behind him, so an intercepted pass is very dangerous. The pass left he can't see. The long pass right he won't take if he is being told to make short passes.

Post 7

Screenshot 1: Only one pass on, which would be a world class through ball between the defenders. Pass left is physically impossible. Pass right ultra difficult because of the closing down pressure he's under. He should really try to hold the ball up and draw the foul as the shot is very difficult. However, if he has ultra attacking mentality, can see why he might try it.

In most examples it is the last line of midfield being forced into taking the shot. If he loses the ball in the tackle or intercept, the counter is on. The long shot is by far the least risky option on, which is why he's taking it.

It's worth mentioning SCIAG's comment in your previous post, in that if the player did try what you told him to try, you'd be getting annihilated on the counter time after time. The decision to shoot is actually protecting your team from getting caught out, so you should be thankful your players are good enough to decide it is the best option. If they weren't, you'd be in all kinds of defensive chaos.

A number of times, the player who takes the long shot is Yakovenko. He's very green and has relatively low teamwork / decision / composure / creativity attributes for the level. It is somewhat unrealistic to expect a callow 17 year old to make the right decisions all the time. He'll be prone to playing below his attributes due to his youth.

how attacking are you playing Thomasmc135? what is your time waste and tempo like?

The guy who shoots a lot has low teamwork which might contribute towards his always shooting.

Have you tried "pass to feet" and "play through defence" on top of/instead of the "work into box" you already use?

I started this one day as England manager when I was stuck with Walcott as my only striker after half time. Set him as poacher and he got a hat trick against Brazil (a friendly) and has gone on to outshine Rooney as top Emgland striker. Almost all are him being released through the middle.

Costa there is the only player I'd trust to make the best use of his options.

I have also noticed that the decision making for these players aren't fantastic with the exception of tete. Which means they are more likely to make the wrong decision on the pitch! Also some of the players have lowish aticpation and creativity which would result in them not releasing that some of these passes were on for the simple options and for the more difficult one just not having the vision to read the game that far ahead.

By all means this doesn't explain all the shots, but sometimes even the best player just makes a mistake.

I tend to have this shout 'on' for well over 50% of most matches.

thats the point. use it in EVERY game.

Aside from Tete, none of those players are actually better at long shots than passing ability. So I would assume that their first instinct should be to pass rather than shoot since he trusts his passing ability more than his shooting ability.

If such players also have a tendency to make poor decisions, the poor decision should be to try to deliver a high risk pass and lose possession rather than going for glory with a shot using an inferior attribute. A player who makes poor decisions surely plays more on instinct and that instinct should be to use your best attribute rather than your weaker attribute.

A player with low decisions, poor dribbling and good passing wouldn't try to dribble out of a tough situation, he would try to pass. A player with low decisions, good dribbling and poor passing would try to dribble out of a tough situation.

That doesn't seem to be the case with long shots however. A player who is out of options in the final third just goes for glory. Doing what he is supposed to do not to give up possession in a situation which may end up as a counter attack. So he acts logically by shooing long while he should be acting illogically by trying to deliver a pass to the player in an offside position or trying to force a pass that has a high risk of getting intercepted.

Yeah most of those players have poor decisions and team work for the top top level of football, none of them are world class. Costa and Tete are the only two i would say are close to being top players.

Is there a hidden attribute for selfishness? Poor decisions isn't a great explanation as it's just as feasible that poor decisions could cause him to try the wrong pass, whether it be to an area the opposition have covered or to a player in an offside position.

Is there a hidden attribute for selfishness? Poor decisions isn't a great explanation as it's just as feasible that poor decisions could cause him to try the wrong pass, whether it be to an area the opposition have covered or to a player in an offside position.

Low team work will make him more likely to be selfish.

Aside from Tete, none of those players are actually better at long shots than passing ability. So I would assume that their first instinct should be to pass rather than shoot since he trusts his passing ability more than his shooting ability.

If such players also have a tendency to make poor decisions, the poor decision should be to try to deliver a high risk pass and lose possession rather than going for glory with a shot using an inferior attribute. A player who makes poor decisions surely plays more on instinct and that instinct should be to use your best attribute rather than your weaker attribute.

A player with low decisions, poor dribbling and good passing wouldn't try to dribble out of a tough situation, he would try to pass. A player with low decisions, good dribbling and poor passing would try to dribble out of a tough situation.

That doesn't seem to be the case with long shots however. A player who is out of options in the final third just goes for glory. Doing what he is supposed to do not to give up possession in a situation which may end up as a counter attack. So he acts logically by shooing long while he should be acting illogically by trying to deliver a pass to the player in an offside position or trying to force a pass that has a high risk of getting intercepted.

Interesting post that highlights a number of core issues.

It is very difficult to clarify between the influence of good decisions and expected play based on tactical instruction. In the OP's examples, I'd argue that in four cases the long shot was absolutely the best option, as if the player lost the ball the risk of the counter into open space was massive. However, as you and SCIAG have pointed out, according to tactical instructions the player should be trying to pass or dribble. Either option is problematic. If the player shoots, users without good tactical/ME eyes complain tactical instructions aren't being followed and the ME is broken. If the player tries the user's tactical option, he wouldn't be acting in a properly human manner. His play would be too robotic. Add in issues such as creative freedom, poor composure, poor teamwork and high mentality, and things become even more complex.

Ultimately, the user's poor tactical approach is being countered by the human-like decision making of the players. For the user, they have to work out why better players are disobeying their instructions for good reasons, while ignoring worse players doing so for bad reasons. Although the clue is in the long shot percentages, the answer is ultimately in the team shape. If the deepest midfielder is getting dragged forward and running out of easy passing options, if he's any good he is likely to shoot to avoid risking the counter. The key fix is to stop the midfielder getting into such a compromised position. Nothing to do with creative freedom or removing long shots, but in his relative positioning compared with the rest of his team. He has to sit back to avoid the pressing opponents and have multiple, easy passing options. This means no FWRs and a lower mentality, but having the right number of players pushing up into space around him, which requires a logical pattern of FWRs and mentalities elsewhere. In TC terms, this means having a well balanced pattern of duties, with enough players being encouraged to either drop back or push up to be available for the pass. The OP's system will struggle as his FWRs pattern is non-existent and his mentality structure compromised.

Anchor man is so, so important imo.

What's the tactical familiarity like for your formation btw?

It is very difficult to clarify between the influence of good decisions and expected play based on tactical instruction. In the OP's examples, I'd argue that in four cases the long shot was absolutely the best option, as if the player lost the ball the risk of the counter into open space was massive. However, as you and SCIAG have pointed out, according to tactical instructions the player should be trying to pass or dribble. Either option is problematic. If the player shoots, users without good tactical/ME eyes complain tactical instructions aren't being followed and the ME is broken. If the player tries the user's tactical option, he wouldn't be acting in a properly human manner. His play would be too robotic. Add in issues such as creative freedom, poor composure, poor teamwork and high mentality, and things become even more complex.

I actually didn't argue that the player should necessarily act according to his tactical instructions but rather according to his instincts or according to what he does best.

In the match engine, we rarely see a player try a through ball for which the forward never makes the run. Or a through ball which is overhit and easily picked up by the goalkeeper or goes out for a goal kick. We also rarely see a player just try a low percentage lob pass to a tall player in the box rather than shooting through a crowd.

For example in situation 1, the player could play a relatively safe ball (safe as in low risk of a counter attack) between the DR and the DRC, hoping that one of those players makes a mistake and the ML could pick up the ball. The pass could be overhit and go out for a goal kick. The ML could be successfully shielded by the opponent's DR from reaching the ball and allow the ball go out for a goal kick. The ball could be kicked out for a corner kick by the DR or a throw in by the DRC.

There are such options in every single case. In my opinion, in some of these cases even purposefully kicking the ball out for a throw-in near the corner flag is preferable to taking a speculative shot and allowing the opponent to freely kick it up the pitch with a goal kick or with the goalkeeper making the easy save.

It seems that players in the game who are in this sort of a situation assume that the defender or the goalkeeper won't make a mistake when reacting to a through ball and try the shot. In reality they should be testing the defenders and the goalkeeper's ability to react to such passes in my opinion. Even if the pass is played by a central defender who is out of position after a corner kick and instructed to play simple football.

Partially as a result of this forwards typically have very high pass completion ratios for forwards in the game. For example Gabby Agbonlahor led all forwards with 86% pass completion in my first season in an EPL save. Odemwingie had 84%. Not because these players are wonderful passers but rather because they take few risks when passing much like a defender should when building play from the back. However players like Mertesacker and Vidic have their pass completion ratios at around 72-73% in the game. Perhaps this is also because they aren't taking risks and quickly kicking the ball up the pitch. However their ability, their team mates' ability as well as the managers' playing style should see those players play simpler and safer passes to midfielders or full backs.

thats the point. use it in EVERY game.

I'm happy using it as much as I currently do, thanks. I'm getting good results.

Post 1

Screenshot 1: Every pass bar one risks the intercept. The one that doesn't requires the player to have eyes in the back of his head and the ability to hit a 30 reverse pass, probably on his wrong foot, with no momentum on the ball.

Screenshot 2: Every pass risks the intercept. Anything to his left is a suicide pass. The only pass in front that might be on will look offside to the passer.

Screenshot 3: Can certainly pass to his right and to man in front. Angled pass into area looks offside. Shot is viable, although as he's being told not to shoot, other passing options probably should have been taken. However, the ones wide right might not be if he's being told to pass very short.

Post 6

Screenshot 1: All passes to his right are risking being intercepted or putting the receiver under pressure. Pass ahead risks offside. Pass into channel is open and would be a great option, but it will require very good vision to pick it. Pass left he can't see.

Screenshot 2: All the passes risk being intercepted or having the receiver put under great pressure. With no cover back, the shot is the most viable option. The curled pass into the box is 100% not on and would be a horrendous decision.

Screenshot 3: I'd be upset if this player shot. Might be worth checking his tactical instructions to see if he has passing / dribbling options allowed. He does have a pretty poor teamwork attribute, which might be the reason.

Screenshot 4: Although the passes ahead and short right don't look too bad, in each case the man is relatively tightly covered and the pass risks being intercepted. There's no midfield cover behind him, so an intercepted pass is very dangerous. The pass left he can't see. The long pass right he won't take if he is being told to make short passes.

Post 7

Screenshot 1: Only one pass on, which would be a world class through ball between the defenders. Pass left is physically impossible. Pass right ultra difficult because of the closing down pressure he's under. He should really try to hold the ball up and draw the foul as the shot is very difficult. However, if he has ultra attacking mentality, can see why he might try it.

In most examples it is the last line of midfield being forced into taking the shot. If he loses the ball in the tackle or intercept, the counter is on. The long shot is by far the least risky option on, which is why he's taking it.

It's worth mentioning SCIAG's comment in your previous post, in that if the player did try what you told him to try, you'd be getting annihilated on the counter time after time. The decision to shoot is actually protecting your team from getting caught out, so you should be thankful your players are good enough to decide it is the best option. If they weren't, you'd be in all kinds of defensive chaos.

But surely there is also a chance that a long shot is blocked and leading to a counter attack (although I'm not even sure the engine can illustrate that?)

Long shots is not necessarily a bad thing, you know. It depends on what type of game you want to be playing. For clubs like Barca or Arsenal (if you want to play them as close to rl as possible), you should probably set all players on long shots rarely (or use the work ball into box shout).

Even if you have a player tremendously good at long shots, I doubt that it would be very wise to set him to shoot long often - or does anyone get good results with that?

I used to have this problem in FM11, so many shots just being blazed over. I think the "Work Ball into Box" did the trick for me. I also use the "Retain Possesion", "Play out of Defence" and "Play Wider", but dont think they make any difference in relation to this problema.

Once you've activated "work ball into box", have a close look at the changes this has made to your tactics. You can then use that information to set up a similar tactic without the need for the shout.

Retain posession lowers tempo.

Play out of defence sets all defenders passing to lowest (shortest)

Play wider alters width.

This provided you have not "ticked" and set these settings in the tactic - team or player settings. If you have, shouts will have no effect.

So I doubt it has anything to do with long shots.

Retain posession lowers tempo.

Play out of defence sets all defenders passing to lowest (shortest)

Play wider alters width.

This provided you have not "ticked" and set these settings in the tactic - team or player settings. If you have, shouts will have no effect.

So I doubt it has anything to do with long shots.

Tempo, short passing and width will all have an effect on long shots.

Pretty much every shout has an effect on everything.

Retain posession lowers tempo.

Play out of defence sets all defenders passing to lowest (shortest)

Play wider alters width.

This provided you have not "ticked" and set these settings in the tactic - team or player settings. If you have, shouts will have no effect.

So I doubt it has anything to do with long shots.

That's what I thought, gets me playing nice Brazilian football though

I've been asleep for the last however long, so I'll try to answer some of the questions that I saw.

My tactic is fluid in every area (or at least was - I'm now in pre-season) and I have a low tempo, wide width and attacking mentality. I have set my striker, two wingers and one central midfielder to attack, whilst the rest should be defending.

Obviously the screenshots show this isn't happening, so I'll have to alter the mentality of each player separately. Most of these players have decent decision making and teamwork, but I suppose you have to make compromises at times. I'm not a 'top' club reputation wise, although I am 16th in the club coefficient.