I sent the game back! Does this make me a traitor? Am I too old for FM now?

Forgive me for the following rant but I feel I have to speak out.

I will no longer buy (or have bought for me) any future copy of FM that makes playing only possible through steam.

I have been a lifelong fan of the FM series going back to the early days of Champ manager and Champ Italia.

In recent years, I always got the game at Christmas. I preferred to hang back and let them sort out the bugs and release patches before I got fully immersed. Of course, I had read all the negative and positive things regarding Steam and FM but choose to play the game and make up my own mind!

Christams arrived and so did the game. It sat on my desk unopened for six weeks calling for me to tear of the plastic wrapping, take out the lovely new, unscratched disk and boot that bad boy up. I kept denying myself though. I just couldn't get passed the fact that I was FORCED to sign up to a Steam account to play my favourite game. It haunted me! During those six weeks I talked to friends who had bought and played the game themselves. Of my three friends, only one made it passed the steam process and played some FM. He stopped after only a few weeks game time because he was annoyed by the constant media work he was required to do. Naturally, this didn't help in my quest to get over myself and play the game.

I also read all the arguements about how it helps with piracy, sales and putting and end to world terrorism (ok, one of them was made up) but that to me seems like a spurious argument and one which is used to deflect from the true aim - increased profits. This however comes at the expense of the loyal fan who always paid for their game and is another example of punishing the good to get at the bad and that, just doesn't sit well with me.

On the piracy thing. My very first experience of Football Manager (Champ in those days) was on an Amiga using a pirated copy of the game. I was 14 and didn't know any better but when I booted up I was instantly hooked. I did however hate how I had to try numerous codes to 'crack' the game (sometimes taking hours to find the right one) and so decided to buy the original version, and only original versions from that point on. I think it's fair to say that without the initial pirated version of the game I may never have got into the game and went on to spend hundreds of pounds, and angered parents, girlfriends and eventually my wife through years of FM addiction. I'm not saying piracy is good or justified, I'm just pointing out that things arent so balck and white.

Unfortuantely for me, it seems as if Steam is around to stay. Sports Interactive’s Miles Jacobson is quoted as saying “As a whole, I think it’s been pretty successful..., If anything, we might look at more Steam integration in the future.”

It doesn't make me angry, just a bid sad. My wife is ecstatic cause she thinks I'll have more time for odd jobs around the house but she hasn't come to the realisation yet that I'm currently just trying to decide what version of FM I'm going to fall back on (probably FM 09).

In a way, I'm looking forward to re-visiting those older versions but eventually, I'll get bored with that and then what? That's right, painting walls and washing cars and fixing the fence and mowing the lawn etc.

Thank you very much SI!

I also hate Steam!

We all make our choices. It doesnt make you a traitor or anything else. People play or they dont play.

I felt the same way about Steam myself.

And like you, i have bought almost every version of FM/CM since first made. I too almost didn't buy FM2012 because of steam.

There have been times where i havent been able to play because of problems with steam servers etc. But these have been few and far between i'm glad to say.

Also Skyrim uses steam (one of my other fav games) So i have been gradually forced to use it myself, whether i like it or not. If i'm honest, it's just not as bad as what people make it out to be. But your not a traitor for choosing not to play it. I would suggest you at leest give steam a chance. After all in my opinion, you will be missing out on the best version of the game yet.

You also can't blame SI for trying to cut down on the piracy, and i guess it makes the whole update/patch process much simpler for your average user. Not that i'm saying you blame them mind...but you know what i mean, hopefully.

You make up your own mind, if Steam is enough to put you off FM there is nothing anyone can do or say, but it doesnt make you a traitor, its just your decision. Hopefully later on you will give it a bash again and come back to FM.

There's no point in anyone going back through the pluses or negatives about Steam i think we're all aware of them and the official line from SI already.

First off, you can never be too old to play Football Manager, your just trying to get a feel of what real managers do (but it doesn't come close) and it's entertaining to all ages.

Secondly, I'm not too sure why you would be that much against Steam that it would stop you from playing the game you love. At the end of the day, it's just a little process that you need to go through and then thats done with. It's just a little bit of memory used, as Steam doesn't take up much memory and if you don't want it to do things, you can put Steam in offline mode. From then on, your just playing the game and thats the end of it.

Thirdly, now that your signed up, all you have to do is sign in to steam every time your play, which takes seconds.

If i'm missing something here, then please point it out, but from what i've just said, I fail to understand why Steam would annoy you that much to stop you from playing.

Not to belittle your experiences, but I really don't seem to get where the Steam hate comes from.

The only time I've experienced issues with Steam is when my wireless is being flakey.

Plus you can always just run in offline mode?

Thx for taking the time to reply Geordie and others.

I'm not anti Steam. I have used it in the past for other games and not had a problem with it. I wasn't upset when Steam was introduced to the FM series because I could chose to install the game normally. My gripe is about choice. I want to choose what way I play the game!

Why cant I just choose!

Does seem a little extreme that steam is the sole reason you have given up after the best part of 20 years of enjoyment. Maybe it's more the age thing? You just don't have the time anymore to get into a game that is substantially more complex than the game you and I grew up with, I know that feeling well.

Was I slightly irritated when I put the disc into my laptop only to discover I needed a steam account to play? Sure, but it doesn't change the game play or cost me money, so it's really no big deal.

I'm not a fans of steam, just don't see why we haven't got the choice play through steam or play cd. Come on SI sort it out.

Joey after reading your long letter I still can't find a single line of WHY steam would be inconvenient to you, aside from your own disposition to dislike them, so I'd have to say that despite what you have to say, the decision was yours to make to not wanting to buy anymore FM, not one person can change so I don't understand your needing to complain about it here. I've had steam for... 3 years or so and have bought the majority of my games there, and I simply don't know why a lot of people complain about it. The game will still run even if you're offline (provided that you've logged in the past... um I actually don't know how long they save the log in cache for but I never had a problem playing due to not being able to log in). I don't need to save all the game boxes and dvds which is a convenience for me. The only problem I can see is if you use multiple computers and want to play from different ones from time to time... which is not a problem for me since I have only one comp . So yeah it sucks that you'll stop buying the game (we all will one day eventually of course) but this is your own decision

Why cant I just choose!

Because by the looks of things, when we had the choice SI suffered.

Is it really just because you cannot choose to not use Steam? You would stop playing this game based on that one thing?

What do you mean "choose the way i play the game" ? you can do this or am i missing point ? if you've used steam before which you say you have you know how it works already

im not sure what steam as to do with how you play fm

No problem for the reply, just trying to give you my honest opinion of it all.

As mentioned, you can always run steam in offline mode. Then it's just running the game like normal really. No need for steam interaction at all one you go into offline mode.

Seriously mate, give it a chance. I know what you're saying about choice though.

The only problem I have with steam is the amount of resources it uses on my activity monitor.

Hey Tactic, thx for replying.

First off, it's a process which I could chose to ignore on previous versions. Secondly, anything that takes up any memory away from an already memory hogging game is stupifying IMO. Thirdly, I'm really not anti - Steam. I wanna say I'm pro choice but I'm not currently a female or pregnant.

I know it's a little thing that's not really important but for some reason it just bugs me! I'm not giving up on FM but it does feel a little like SI has given up on the old style fan/customer.

Completely agree with OP, been many rounds of discussion on this and things still running in background as to the way it was handled by Sega/SI.

Ultimately the 'old school' user of FM is being ditched by FM for the 'new school' user and you either have to accept their decisions and keep buying or ditch it. Personally I ditched it and won't buy again all the while Steam is forced on the user.

Each to their own really but long term I do feel that FM have hurt the series more than they realise, lets hope a competitor comes out to get them to raise their game and to offer customers choice.

I'm not giving up on FM but it does feel a little like SI has given up on the old style fan/customer.

I guess SI have to move with the times, and protect their interests mate. Computer games cost millions to develop, can't blame anyone for "protecting" their interests.

Steam = easy updating/patching for so many people and less piracy in general, which hopefully means more money for SI. Which then means more money to develop the next version of the game.

As for the memory resources that steam uses etc. Well they are pretty small i would assume. At least steam isnt as bad as EA's attempt...Origin! That is truly awful.

Ultimately the 'old school' user of FM is being ditched by FM for the 'new school' user and you either have to accept their decisions and keep buying or ditch it. Personally I ditched it and won't buy again all the while Steam is forced on the user.

In what way? I have played since i was about 15, im 28 now, does that not make me "old school"?

Hey Tactic, thx for replying.

First off, it's a process which I could chose to ignore on previous versions. Secondly, anything that takes up any memory away from an already memory hogging game is stupifying IMO. Thirdly, I'm really not anti - Steam. I wanna say I'm pro choice but I'm not currently a female or pregnant.

I know it's a little thing that's not really important but for some reason it just bugs me! I'm not giving up on FM but it does feel a little like SI has given up on the old style fan/customer.

Dont really see how it can feel like that at all. I'm not here to say you should or shouldnt like it, that is absolute your right to excercise, but that change doesnt mean that are giving up on anyone, I'm a long time player, certainly don't feel like I've been given up on

"lets hope a competitor comes out to get them to raise their game and to offer customers choice."

Wild just a quick reply, but I've played the game since CM3 and for all those year I have NEVER seen any football managing game that's anywhere near Si game. The only game that I'd say I like aside this was gremlin's premier manager series, but instead of getting better their subsequent product got worse and now there's simply no other game that can touch SI's... You might need to put your hope on hold for a long time if you still want to play football managing game ;p

I remember when you bought games on cassette tapes.

Then 5.25 inch diskettes came along.

Then 3.5 inch diskettes.

Then cartridges.

Then CDs.

Then DVDs

And now digitial distribution is here.

The point is, you have to move with the times and there will come a time when every single new game will only be available via download. DVD's will be phased out, just like all those previous mediums were. Its about profit and cost cutting (the piracy thing is probably just the PR spiel tbh.... its really about saving £££'s). So you'll eventually have no choice other than to get any software, games or otherwise, via things like Steam.

I don't like Steam, I prefare DVD's. But I realised its here and is the way more & more things will be released from now on so I might as well get used to it sooner rather than later. Anyway, its not so bad. At least you can put Steam offline once you've registered the game. If the time comes when I have to have something like Steam online constantly to play what is effectively an offline game, thats the time I'll pack this gaming lark in, as that'll be crossing one line too many.

Hey ndeberg, thx for the reply.

I'm thinking it is the age thing. There is a part of me that enjoyed being able to set up the game and finish a season all in the space of a couple of hours. Of course, over the years it has taken longer and longer to get to the end of the month never mind season. However, the anal part of me really enjoys picking over every detail there is to do with my team. There are many more things now that annoy me about the game than say 10 years ago but there are also probably hundreds of new aspects which have increased enjoyment/addiction, to epic levels. Maybe even thousands.

Perhaps I am just trying to deflect away from facing the inevitable responsibilities of life and lack of time and energy to immerse myself in the game and so I have picked out this one aspect to help me 'move on' so to speak.

However, I didn't take this decision lightly which is why I feel a slight pang of treachery.

Doesn't having a program take up memory in the background eventually cost you money in the long run (updating components; GC and HD working harder so decreasing shelf life; electrical costs as the fan and other components have to work harder)? I know it's all probably very small amounts but it al adds up int the end.

And yes, I am aware that moaning about minimal cost incursions is a sure sign I'm getting older but it doesn't change the facts.

In what way? I have played since i was about 15, im 28 now, does that not make me "old school"?

Many FM'ers just play FM and don't require a system like Steam for multiple games as they simple are not hardcore gamers, these people may only buy FM every year and very little other games so a system like Steam is a hindrance not a benefit.

Everyone is different so the definition of 'old school' and 'new school' can differ to each person but the point being made is that Sega/SI are trying to force the user to embrace a gaming system and this appears why there was such a backlash to the decision as many feel Steam gives them no benefit and they have no choice in installing a 3rd party gaming system/software.

Like I say each to their own, evolution is natural, but evolution is normally best when it is a natural occurence not forced.

"lets hope a competitor comes out to get them to raise their game and to offer customers choice."

Wild just a quick reply, but I've played the game since CM3 and for all those year I have NEVER seen any football managing game that's anywhere near Si game. The only game that I'd say I like aside this was gremlin's premier manager series, but instead of getting better their subsequent product got worse and now there's simply no other game that can touch SI's... You might need to put your hope on hold for a long time if you still want to play football managing game ;p

I agree it is miles better than competitors, hence my hope that this can change as a monoploy on anything is normally bad.

Many FM'ers just play FM and don't require a system like Steam for multiple games as they simple are not hardcore gamers, these people may only buy FM every year and very little other games so a system like Steam is a hindrance not a benefit.

Everyone is different so the definition of 'old school' and 'new school' can differ to each person but the point being made is that Sega/SI are trying to force the user to embrace a gaming system and this appears why there was such a backlash to the decision as many feel Steam gives them no benefit and they have no choice in installing a 3rd party gaming system/software.

Like I say each to their own, evolution is natural, but evolution is normally best when it is a natural occurence not forced.

Well im not going over the Steam issues, they will just close the thread, they have all been discussed. But no one is getting rid of the "old school" players in anyway, my dad plays FM, and now he has to use Steam, i had to set it up for him, but now its set up he plays the same way he ever did, clicks on the FM icon and it does everything for him. He more than me understands how things progress in technology and is willing to give it a try.

We were forced into using tapes when Vinal went out of fashion, we were forced into embracing CD's when they stopped making tapes, we were forced into getting a digital reciever for our TV's in Britain because they no longer want to broadcast on analogue signals, thats the way these things go. Did people stop buying music because they have to buy a cd player to replace their tape player? Are people boycotting TV now its only digital in Britain?

Steam isnt new and has been an option over the past few versions, now they have decided to take it a step further, its really no different from any technology moving forward.

Evolution only seems natural in retrospect when it has been a forced occurrence, in a few years time people will look back at this and wonder what the fuss was all about.

Hey Erimus, thx for your post.

And thx to everyone else for replying ( why do i suddenly feel like im accepting an award and forgotten to mention someones name?)

AH, the halcyon days. A good post and you make a lot of fair points.

I think I have already reached the point where I feel the line has been crossed. I'm all for moving with the times and apapting to the future. I think you might have helped me answer my own question.

It is about choice. I have chosen not to buy anymore games because I feel a line has been crossed. SI are doing what any business would do and so moaning about not having choice isn't worth a can of beans.

So, it's no more new versions of FM for me.

Damn, that's quite a kick in the chops to realise that.

Hey ndeberg, thx for the reply.

I'm thinking it is the age thing. There is a part of me that enjoyed being able to set up the game and finish a season all in the space of a couple of hours. Of course, over the years it has taken longer and longer to get to the end of the month never mind season. However, the anal part of me really enjoys picking over every detail there is to do with my team. There are many more things now that annoy me about the game than say 10 years ago but there are also probably hundreds of new aspects which have increased enjoyment/addiction, to epic levels. Maybe even thousands.

Perhaps I am just trying to deflect away from facing the inevitable responsibilities of life and lack of time and energy to immerse myself in the game and so I have picked out this one aspect to help me 'move on' so to speak.

However, I didn't take this decision lightly which is why I feel a slight pang of treachery.

Doesn't having a program take up memory in the background eventually cost you money in the long run (updating components; GC and HD working harder so decreasing shelf life; electrical costs as the fan and other components have to work harder)? I know it's all probably very small amounts but it al adds up int the end.

And yes, I am aware that moaning about minimal cost incursions is a sure sign I'm getting older but it doesn't change the facts.

I can relate with you here, it takes me about 20 min for a single match with only key portion of the match shown which I use on team I think I can win against, while playing against team that's about equal to mine I have to play with the extended match which can take about 45 min to finish xD. It become a real luxury to use that time on a game and one day very soon I'll have to say goodbye to this game because of that. I will see you in the retirement home for FM players soon joey!

Well im not going over the Steam issues, they will just close the thread, they have all been discussed. But no one is getting rid of the "old school" players in anyway, my dad plays FM, and now he has to use Steam, i had to set it up for him, but now its set up he plays the same way he ever did, clicks on the FM icon and it does everything for him. He more than me understands how things progress in technology and is willing to give it a try.

We were forced into using tapes when Vinal went out of fashion, we were forced into embracing CD's when they stopped making tapes, we were forced into getting a digital reciever for our TV's in Britain because they no longer want to broadcast on analogue signals, thats the way these things go. Did people stop buying music because they have to buy a cd player to replace their tape player? Are people boycotting TV now its only digital in Britain?

Steam isnt new and has been an option over the past few versions, now they have decided to take it a step further, its really no different from any technology moving forward.

Evolution only seems natural in retrospect when it has been a forced occurrence, in a few years time people will look back at this and wonder what the fuss was all about.

I agree that SI will close the thread if Steam is debated too fully for their liking.

Ultimately all the examples you have given have given the consumer a better experience.............better sound from CD's rather than vinyl (and you can still use vinyl if you wish), digital TV allows better sound and vision for the experience and the newer tv's, etc.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, Steam gives me nothing but it all seems to be about what it can give Sega/SI, we can patch easier, we can check what hardware people use, we can help stop piracy (it doesn't), we can invest more money in the series, etc.

It doesn't give me a better visual or sound experience, it doesn't better the game for me, it gives me a piece of software that at times can hog resources, at times can not work, etc.

That's my opinion, I understand others have different views.

I agree that SI will close the thread if Steam is debated too fully for their liking.

Ultimately all the examples you have given have given the consumer a better experience.............better sound from CD's rather than vinyl (and you can still use vinyl if you wish), digital TV allows better sound and vision for the experience and the newer tv's, etc.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, Steam gives me nothing but it all seems to be about what it can give Sega/SI, we can patch easier, we can check what hardware people use, we can help stop piracy (it doesn't), we can invest more money in the series, etc.

It doesn't give me a better visual or sound experience, it doesn't better the game for me, it gives me a piece of software that at times can hog resources, at times can not work, etc.

That's my opinion, I understand others have different views.

Its not about stopping the debate or going into the details, its about repetition, we had our chance to voice our opinions on numerous threads, it doesnt need repeating over and over.

Its arguable if digital music is better than analogue music, infact many would say the exact opposite, Vinal to this day can still sound much better than a CD, that was not done to improve the quality of music we were listening too, it was done because it is much cheaper to mass produce CD's than it is vinal records. Its arguable that digital TV is better for everyone, people with poor signal in their area now get less channels than they did before without having to pay for a better reciever. My point is there are always arguments on both sides, none of my examples were purely for the consumers benefit, they helped the manufacturers as much as they helped us.

If SI make more money from selling through Steam and as such invest more in the game, does that not improve your experience?

BTW im not belittling your opinion, your entitled to it, just debating for the sake of it really

Somehow i feel this has gone from how the OP feels into something else entirely...

Its not about stopping the debate or going into the details, its about repetition, we had our chance to voice our opinions on numerous threads, it doesnt need repeating over and over.

Its arguable if digital music is better than analogue music, infact many would say the exact opposite, Vinal to this day can still sound much better than a CD, that was not done to improve the quality of music we were listening too, it was done because it is much cheaper to mass produce CD's than it is vinal records. Its arguable that digital TV is better for everyone, people with poor signal in their area now get less channels than they did before without having to pay for a better reciever. My point is there are always arguments on both sides, none of my examples were purely for the consumers benefit, they helped the manufacturers as much as they helped us.

If SI make more money from selling through Steam and as such invest more in the game, does that not improve your experience?

BTW im not belittling your opinion, your entitled to it, just debating for the sake of it really

We also have the choice to vent our pleasure at FM and Steam yet those threads remain open all of the time....one rule for one huh!

To avoid going too off topic, although I think this is still relatively on topic, I'll just make one further comment.

Digital music is far superior sound using a wide array of technology to bolster the sound, the expereince, etc. Although some people like the autenticity of vinyl and still have the choice to use that if they wish.

SI making more money doesn't mean more money for the game neccesarily, we are talking Sega here, profits, shareholders, costs, etc. The point I was making is that there have to be benefits to the consumer even if it makes them change the way they listen to music, download games, etc.

Debating is good we all have different slants on the world and to only accept or hear one side of an argument makes a very volatile world.

To those who have stated that they are unhappy with the amount of resources that the Steam client "consumes", could we get some figures?

I'm running FM right now and Task Manger says that Steam is using exactly 0% of CPU and 28MB of RAM. To put that in perspective, 28MB of RAM is 0.003% of my total RAM (8GB). Even if you have only 1GB of RAM, that's still only 0.03%.

When you consider FM itself is using 1.3GB of RAM, Steam's usage is a tiny, tiny, tiny drop in the ocean. I don't know what kind of world you live in where that would be a problem, let alone a big enough one to make you stop playing FM.

We also have the choice to vent our pleasure at FM and Steam yet those threads remain open all of the time....one rule for one huh!

To avoid going too off topic, although I think this is still relatively on topic, I'll just make one further comment.

Digital music is far superior sound using a wide array of technology to bolster the sound, the expereince, etc. Although some people like the autenticity of vinyl and still have the choice to use that if they wish.

SI making more money doesn't mean more money for the game neccesarily, we are talking Sega here, profits, shareholders, costs, etc. The point I was making is that there have to be benefits to the consumer even if it makes them change the way they listen to music, download games, etc.

Debating is good we all have different slants on the world and to only accept or hear one side of an argument makes a very volatile world.

But this isnt a Steam forum, rants on FM belong, to a point, here, rants about Steam belong on their forums. Thats the stance the guys on here take and its understandable.

Digital music is not vastly superior, take it from someone heavily involved in music and have been for a number of years now, its a more efficient method yes, but the results are not vastly superior. We did not move onto digital music because of quality, it was because of price and ease.

SI have already stated that because of the extra money they made this year they are hiring more people to work on FM, its arguable that this is a coincidence they have played off as because of Steam, but unless we have the figures to hand we cannot really argue with them on that. The point still stands, if the game gets better because SI have lower overheads and lose less on pre-release and release day piracy, then we have benefited, and will continue to do so. The benefits do not have to be right infront of your face to be there.

exactly on your last part, if its kept civil then there is no reason we should not be allowed to debate this, although it has gone massively off topic now, sorry

FM and Steam go hand in hand. You can't play FM without Steam.

BTW, how to I play FM offline? I have no clue how to really work Steam.

From reading OP, my opinion is he is moaning because he has to buy a copy this year rather than torrent, although he wont admit it here ofc because its illegal. Why else would u moan about Steam, sure its not ideal but is hardly the worst thing in the world either. So to translate 'oh no, i have to buy the game now, listen to my rant so i cant get FM13 free'

Jesus wept, Steam isn't the Devil you know! If you don't like Steam then you can't play FM, i'm not big on it but I love FM more than I dislike Steam.

Steam is great, but haters gonna hate.

Steam isn't great, and neither does it suck. It solved some issues, and introduced others. Nothing to rave or rant about - unless it happens to make FM12 unplayable for you.

Steam is great because it keeps all my games in one place, and allows me to pay American prices which are far lower than the ones practiced in Brazil.

Also, it has a nice social feature so I see it more as an app rather than bloatware. It's really useful, even if you are not from Brazil, especially if you play more than just FM. It even has a selection of decent free games.

Aren't Brazil's software prices insane by most standards? So the American prices are no attraction, at least for me. Anyway, the only useful thing I see about Steam is that you can just download and install the game any time and place you want. Otherwise, I don't see the point. Especially as the Mac version is reportedly the very definition of bloatware.

Luckily I can still play it on my PC, but the Mac's faster, and FM needs every drop of juice you have.

I understand the problem here. I would prefer to play without Steam as I don't see why I should fill up my computer with a program just to play a game.

Like I say each to their own, evolution is natural, but evolution is normally best when it is a natural occurence not forced.

A brilliant point wild. Well Said!

I can relate with you here, it takes me about 20 min for a single match with only key portion of the match shown which I use on team I think I can win against, while playing against team that's about equal to mine I have to play with the extended match which can take about 45 min to finish xD. It become a real luxury to use that time on a game and one day very soon I'll have to say goodbye to this game because of that. I will see you in the retirement home for FM players soon joey!

I think I've already signed my FM retirement home papers. I'll keep the tea warm should you ever need to stay.

I love FM more than I dislike Steam.

Exactly my feelings. I don't like using Steam, but I won't let that stop me from doing something I enjoy.

I'm really not trying to make this about hating Steam!

I have used steam in the past for other games but generally 'removed' it from my PC once it wasn't needed. But those were all just games to pass an hour or two here and there. Football Manager has always been more than just a game. I loved playing epic games with equally addicted friends (how good was Cantona in those early games!?!) and I can see how for modern users, in this modern world, Steam is a great way for them to play multiplayer. As an option, it is a wonderful piece of software that will give pleasure to many but as a Forced necessity for game play it's just a little to far.

BTW, how to I play FM offline? I have no clue how to really work Steam.

Top left hand corner of your Steam screen....

From reading OP, my opinion is he is moaning because he has to buy a copy this year rather than torrent, although he wont admit it here ofc because its illegal. Why else would u moan about Steam, sure its not ideal but is hardly the worst thing in the world either. So to translate 'oh no, i have to buy the game now, listen to my rant so i cant get FM13 free'

Richie, wholly unfounded and completely wrong. If you read my posts properly you will see this isnt about money. Frankly, I dont think you read the OP or you would not have written that.

Money is not the issue. Steam isn't really the issue. The issue is not being given the choice! My questions are why does it bug me so much and why SI felt it so neccessary to take away the option of choice.

We also have the choice to vent our pleasure at FM and Steam yet those threads remain open all of the time....one rule for one huh!

To avoid going too off topic, although I think this is still relatively on topic, I'll just make one further comment.

Digital music is far superior sound using a wide array of technology to bolster the sound, the expereince, etc. Although some people like the autenticity of vinyl and still have the choice to use that if they wish.

SI making more money doesn't mean more money for the game neccesarily, we are talking Sega here, profits, shareholders, costs, etc. The point I was making is that there have to be benefits to the consumer even if it makes them change the way they listen to music, download games, etc.

Debating is good we all have different slants on the world and to only accept or hear one side of an argument makes a very volatile world.

.... except that sound is analogue.