Getting really disillusioned with this now

This is third (out of 4) seasons this has happened now

Have a great start, then around Christmas and New Year time we find it impossible to win

Doesn't matter what I do

I went the first 17 games unbeaten

What a joke!

Not sold any of players

What about your tactics?

Tactics is 4-1-2-2-1

Why would my tactics work for 4 months at the beginning of every season then suddenly not work?

IRL I don't know any manager than has to change his tactics half way through a season every season to get success

If you play a short passing game on the ground, it will fail when the winter sets in and the pitches get poor.

Yes I do play short passing

That's a great shout

Thanks

PS Still think that's a bit unrealistic

Tactics is 4-1-2-2-1

Why would my tactics work for 4 months at the beginning of every season then suddenly not work?

IRL I don't know any manager than has to change his tactics half way through a season every season to get success

As long as SI guys think that's realistic, we have to put up with it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/296279-Unrealistic-rapid-downturn-in-form

It has given some results at both ends of the specter, but its not unrealistic that a team that plays slow, short and on the ground would struggle on the pitches that are in the BSP. Just imagine the Arsenal-style against the Stoke-style on pitches that are in such conditions.

Have a look through the teams in your division and check their pitch conditions, I would imagine they are all very poor

As long as SI guys think that's realistic, we have to put up with it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/296279-Unrealistic-rapid-downturn-in-form

I don't see anyone from SI commenting there?

Being at the top of the league will have raised your reputation, which means teams will be more cautious against you and it will not be as easy to break through defences.

I don't see anyone from SI commenting there?

Being at the top of the league will have raised your reputation, which means teams will be more cautious against you and it will not be as easy to break through defences.

That wasn't the only topic discussing that issue. Besides, the fact some users try to justify it means it's staying in the game for good. Also, about your reputation explanation, it's not that simple.

Happens to my team IRL every year, as we play a short passing game on non-league pitches. Stupid real life bug.

This season through to October, top half and first round of the FA Cup. November onwards, 9 straight losses and 16 without a win.

just went and attacked barcalona at home, they score from a shot that hits the post and goes in instead of the correct angle... out.

that was it, one flaming shot on target that is all they had. this happens far too much, IRL you would not get 3-4 games where teams score from thier 1 shot on target a season.

annoys me to outplay a team. sometimes score a bucket load, only for 1 shot on target for them to score. no matter the team. makes it harder for the clean sheet achievment when i get a run of 3 games of none concession

and why are players who have played first team football, numerous times this season complaining about lack of first team football? got a player complaining about lack of first team football who has made 22 appearances.

These "complaints" are getting more and more surreal.

1: It is not realistic that my team gets penalised for trying to play possession football on a mud bath in a gale force rainstorm. Not realistic how?

2: It is not realistic that teams are more likely to shut up shop against me when I'm on a long, successful run. Really?

3: Barcelona scored against me! Not fair!

4: A ball hit the post and went in! That would never happen!

5: It is not realistic that I concede a goal once every four matches. Every, and I mean, every time, this goal is from the only shot the opposition has! No hyperbole! Really!

Let's have a little thought and self-moderation with these complaints. There are some genuinely reflective complaints on these forums (the problem with the wingers not tracking back in a 4-2-3-1 for example), but they are lost amidst the cacophony of unrealistic moans and rants.

how is saying barcalona scored against me unfair? the fact it was barcalona is a mere coincidence, they were outplayed (except possesion, but that was only a few % apart)

not an unrealistic complaint if i dominate a team, they get that one shot on target and score it, tell me please how many teams get ONE SHOT ON TARGET a game, and then how many score it. i expect more shots on target, nor do i expect some random league 1 team to score from that 1 shot on target. you tell me how many top clubs keep clean sheets for 3 games for games where the opposition has 5 or 6 shots on target (more realistic)

and the balls flight was hitting the outside of the post not the inside, so should not have bounced in. there are also many throws and corners when the ball stops on the line. so we have a visual issue with the game.

and something really needs to be done about the players running up to a lose ball that lands a foot from the line, and knocking it out of play by accident

stop making it look like a moan when it is a clear issue, 1 shot on target, and keeper NEVER saves it? right..... i expect maybe once a season for this to happen against a team like barcalona, where the strikers can score from those chances, but hartlepool come on, i find then it just spoils the performance.

Just to be clear, are you saying that its unrealistic to have one shot per goal, or one shot on target per goal? The first I would have to agree with somewhat but something I don't see very often in the game, but the latter is not really that rare you know? I mean just going on ESPN to look at today's games (if they got their stats wrong, I'm sorry but I can't watch every game to make sure!) Stoke had 2 shots on target and two goals winning 2-0 and Real Sociedad had 1 shot on target and 1 goal

In terms of consecutive clean sheets, Man city this year hasn't had a streak of clean sheets longer than 3 games this season whether you look at all leagues or just the Prem League, and they've clearly been one of the better teams this year with the least goals allowed in the league. What you want to take from that, I don't know but its an interesting stat nonetheless.

I'm not saying that the game is perfect by any means, as the reputation/loan system does annoy me at times, but I also think the game is pretty good at being fun and staying realistic for the most part.

Because it's not real, you can't really tell exactly where it hit the post and whether there was spin on the ball? Thats my argument against this NEVER would happen

So... you were on a good run and then it just kind of stopped? What's the problem there, that sounds perfectly realistic and normal. You're just whinging because you aren't winning, get over it!

Here, read this thread.

some of these offsides are plain rediculous, player recieves ball, almost instantly passes into the path of an advancing striker.... the midfielder out wide is offside i can see clearly a defender behind the striker he passed to. so how is the winger offside when he had the ball for such a small time the 2 players would need rocket shoes to start behind him

DEJA VU!!!

Tactics is 4-1-2-2-1

Why would my tactics work for 4 months at the beginning of every season then suddenly not work?

IRL I don't know any manager than has to change his tactics half way through a season every season to get success

So all the top managers play the same way every week regardless of opposition, form, morale and weather conditions?

Would these managers play the same game against Barcelona as they would against Stoke City(no offense)?

Any manager that did would soon be found out to be tactically inept regardless of the quality of their squad and probably wouldn't have had an unbeaten run in the first place.

Also 4-1-2-2-1 is a formation and not a tactic. A tactic is how you utilise your formation and/or nullify the oppositions and this can be changed while continuing with the same formation. Their should be no need for wholesale changes and tweaking (particularly during matches) should be enough to get back to winning ways. If your just clicking continue and hoping to win your going to get frustrated.

Finally read the thread Someguy linked.

So... you were on a good run and then it just kind of stopped? What's the problem there, that sounds perfectly realistic and normal. You're just whinging because you aren't winning, get over it!

I've seen your clever post linked below very good

Can you show me a team IRL that is top of their respective league every season 3 years runinng then fall away to finish just outside the top 5/6

DEJA VU!!!

So all the top managers play the same way every week regardless of opposition, form, morale and weather conditions?

Would these managers play the same game against Barcelona as they would against Stoke City(no offense)?

Any manager that did would soon be found out to be tactically inept regardless of the quality of their squad and probably wouldn't have had an unbeaten run in the first place.

Also 4-1-2-2-1 is a formation and not a tactic. A tactic is how you utilise your formation and/or nullify the oppositions and this can be changed while continuing with the same formation. Their should be no need for wholesale changes and tweaking (particularly during matches) should be enough to get back to winning ways. If your just clicking continue and hoping to win your going to get frustrated.

Finally read the thread Someguy linked.

Barcelona, Stoke (my team) and Man Utd have always played the same way pretty much every single game, same formations (Stoke and Barcelona have played their own style and formations week in week out for years with degrees of success at their level)

Again I ask the question, how can a team win pretty much every week for the first 4 months of the season (THREE YEARS RUNNING) then start playing like a pub team? I woudn't mind it happening once (not the right tatics, players not good enough, tired etc) but 3 years in a row is not realistic. So the turn in weather causing a team to play rubbish. That's pathetic if you really think about it

Did you play more or less the same team for those 4 months?

I find that even though a players fitness rating is 90% plus, you may think he's fit for the game, but he's quite likely to be jaded, so you need to be rotating the squad more.

Thanks for your post mate, a decent repsonse instead of having a dig (because I'm being a sore loser!)

I very rarely play a player under 90% unless no other fit players.

I had a squad off over 25, so pretty much two players for each position. However there was no long term injuries before the bad run started. It doesn't look like I'm the only one this has happened to.

I bloody love this game, being playing it for sooooo many years now. Just find it difficult to stomach such unrealistic parts that massively affect games (I can deal with offsides, yellow cards, injuries etc)

I've seen your clever post linked below very good

Can you show me a team IRL that is top of their respective league every season 3 years runinng then fall away to finish just outside the top 5/6

http://www.bold.dk/fodbold/Danmark/Superligaen

Brøndby finished 3rd last 3 seasons. They should have had one 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd place but missed it in the end. Now they are 10th (out of 12) and suck more than ever. Yet, they still have players on very high wages and NT players.

Good thing I've won Champions League with them in the year 2019 on FM12. That's way more realistic than what they are facing irl

Yeah Brondby used to be a reasonably good European team

Were they top of the league in each of those 3 seasons. Good example if so, very rare IRL

How is your squad mentally? Could it be that either:

a) They find it hard to handle the pressure of being top.

b) Your responses to the Media are putting undue pressure on them.

I'm not saying this is the cause, but it could be something worth investigating.

Yep, the 1st of the 3 seasons they were top until they decided to lose their last 3 games. 2nd I believe they were 1st at one point but the last season FCK dominated throughout.

I'd point out for good measure that Brisbane were 6 points clear after 8 games before their collapse, having been unbeaten for a mere 36 games. They lost 5 in a row and haven't really recovered and are now 5 points below first place while they have a game in hand against the worst team in the league. That is, by Wednesday evening they could very well be back to 8 points behind, that's a huge shift. At the worst point they were 11 points behind and in 3rd.

As for your specific case I can, off the top of my head, come up with:

Lyon: 7 consecutive titles before coming 3rd, 2nd, then 3rd again. They are currently first.

Bayern Munich: Won in 98-99, 99-00 and 00-01 before coming 3rd

Debrecen: 3 consecutive, came second, then a further two before coming 5th last year. They sit top at the moment.

Standard Liege: Won in 07-08 and 08-09 before coming 8th in 09-10.

Barcelona: Won 4 straight from 90-94 before coming 4th

Real Madrid: Won 5 straight from 85-89 before coming third (2 points from 5th)

I could find some more and possibly better examples if I went searching, but those are the ones I could think of.

I would also point out that your season isn't over and you can still recover, but hey.

How is your squad mentally? Could it be that either:

a) They find it hard to handle the pressure of being top.

b) Your responses to the Media are putting undue pressure on them.

I'm not saying this is the cause, but it could be something worth investigating.

Thanks again

To be honest I don't know what state my squad were mentally and I have finsihed the season now

I send my Assistant Manager into the Press Conferences

I'd point out for good measure that Brisbane were 6 points clear after 8 games before their collapse, having been unbeaten for a mere 36 games. They lost 5 in a row and haven't really recovered and are now 5 points below first place while they have a game in hand against the worst team in the league. That is, by Wednesday evening they could very well be back to 8 points behind, that's a huge shift. At the worst point they were 11 points behind and in 3rd.

As for your specific case I can, off the top of my head, come up with:

Lyon: 7 consecutive titles before coming 3rd, 2nd, then 3rd again. They are currently first.

Bayern Munich: Won in 98-99, 99-00 and 00-01 before coming 3rd

Debrecen: 3 consecutive, came second, then a further two before coming 5th last year. They sit top at the moment.

Standard Liege: Won in 07-08 and 08-09 before coming 8th in 09-10.

Barcelona: Won 4 straight from 90-94 before coming 4th

Real Madrid: Won 5 straight from 85-89 before coming third (2 points from 5th)

I could find some more and possibly better examples if I went searching, but those are the ones I could think of.

I would also point out that your season isn't over and you can still recover, but hey.

how dare you try and use reason on here!

I finished the season 4th and lost in the play offs

The examples you give are not mid season though, new seasons can't quite often bring different results. I don't have a problem with that much so. It's the mid season slumps I consistently have that I don't get and find it hard to stomach

There are lots of things to think about from the replies I have had so far

Big thank you to everyone who has contributed so far

how dare you try and use reason on here!

That wasn't the question though was it?

Read the question

I think team talks are a factor is preventing, causing and getting out of a slump in form.

It's important to know when to praise, encourage, warn and criticise your team and individual players.

Barcelona, Stoke (my team) and Man Utd have always played the same way pretty much every single game, same formations (Stoke and Barcelona have played their own style and formations week in week out for years with degrees of success at their level)

Again I ask the question, how can a team win pretty much every week for the first 4 months of the season (THREE YEARS RUNNING) then start playing like a pub team? I woudn't mind it happening once (not the right tatics, players not good enough, tired etc) but 3 years in a row is not realistic. So the turn in weather causing a team to play rubbish. That's pathetic if you really think about it

As I already said, my team Bromley does this in real life. Last season, top in November, finished bottom half. This season, top half in October then 9 straight losses and 16 without a win, now into a relegation fight. It is not only those two years, it has been going on most seasons for the last 20, we are well known for it. We play nothing but passing football and when the winter kicks in, we suck.

So, it is annoying, but not unrealistic (in some examples). Certainly not pathetic if you actually do think about the reasons why rather than just assume it is something coded in to stop the human user (which is pathetic if you really think about it).

I finished the season 4th and lost in the play offs

The examples you give are not mid season though, new seasons can't quite often bring different results. I don't have a problem with that much so. It's the mid season slumps I consistently have that I don't get and find it hard to stomach

There are lots of things to think about from the replies I have had so far

Big thank you to everyone who has contributed so far

Usually its not down to one thing, it could well be a variation of you side becoming complacent, the overall mental state of your side (are they the kind of players to are susceptible to being complacent, or crumbling under pressure etc), the change in how teams view you and thus a change in their approach, even the sate of the pitch and current weather conditions will have an effect, and I'm sure I've missed out other factors. One or the other alone may not quite derail you, but a combination certainly can. If it's happen 3 out of 4 seasons, then you are missing something time and again.

These "complaints" are getting more and more surreal.

1: It is not realistic that my team gets penalised for trying to play possession football on a mud bath in a gale force rainstorm. Not realistic how?

2: It is not realistic that teams are more likely to shut up shop against me when I'm on a long, successful run. Really?

3: Barcelona scored against me! Not fair!

4: A ball hit the post and went in! That would never happen!

5: It is not realistic that I concede a goal once every four matches. Every, and I mean, every time, this goal is from the only shot the opposition has! No hyperbole! Really!

Let's have a little thought and self-moderation with these complaints. There are some genuinely reflective complaints on these forums (the problem with the wingers not tracking back in a 4-2-3-1 for example), but they are lost amidst the cacophony of unrealistic moans and rants.

That's the most unhelpful post... and you're a moderator? :s

To the OP - have private chats with your players... if their last 5 games rating is below 7 for instance tell them to pick their game up... if it's above 8 tell them they are amazing and to keep it up. You need to do this every few matches to keep them on their toes.

I finished the season 4th and lost in the play offs

The examples you give are not mid season though, new seasons can't quite often bring different results. I don't have a problem with that much so. It's the mid season slumps I consistently have that I don't get and find it hard to stomach

There are lots of things to think about from the replies I have had so far

Big thank you to everyone who has contributed so far

The Brisbane example was definitely mid season as Brisbane were 1st and 6 points clear about a third of the way into the season.

Off the top of my head Derby County were 4th in November of 2010 before finishing just outside the playoffs with a points total that would see teams relegated in some cases.

Hull were equal top of the Premier League ~9 or 10 matches in ending up only surviving on the last day!

As for the specific example you asked for:

Can you show me a team IRL that is top of their respective league every season 3 years runinng then fall away to finish just outside the top 5/6

I gave you that with Debrecen and now you're asking for something else?

These things can happen and have happened in the past, why is that so hard to understand? Get over it, pick yourself and your team up and get on with it.

How about some more collapses then:

Arsenal in 07-08, lead the Premier League for most of the season before coming 3rd.

In 2001-02, Man United were set to go on and win a 4th consecutive Premier League title being in first with 7 games to go before finishing 3rd, 10 points behind the winners Arsenal.

Arsenal won 3 in a row between 1932 and 1935 before coming 6th in 36-37. Despite being in touching distance of first on Christmas day, Arsenal collapse losing 8, drawing 9 and winning only 5 in their remaining 22 matches.

I could hunt you down more examples but it is hard considering that its difficult finding a source for game by game results and league tables anywhere beyond about 5-10 years ago for any league outside England.

Again I ask the question, how can a team win pretty much every week for the first 4 months of the season (THREE YEARS RUNNING) then start playing like a pub team? I woudn't mind it happening once (not the right tatics, players not good enough, tired etc) but 3 years in a row is not realistic. So the turn in weather causing a team to play rubbish. That's pathetic if you really think about it

In answer to this by the way, Derby have a yearly collapse once the season gets going. Its like clockwork at the moment, but hey, as we know around here, real life isn't realistic!

I still can't stress enough that Brisbane, playing the best football ever seen in Australia, having been on a 36 game unbeaten run and having won 4-0 in their previous match, collapsed suddenly, unexpectandly and completely and are now 5 points (more probably 8 after first plays their game in hand) behind first place. They literally lost 5 in a row, despite still playing fairly well and still far better than their oppositions. Sometimes things just go wrong and if you can't accept that, then I think that a football management game just isn't for you. Why? Because its a part of football and unless they just end up adding a win button, this sort of thing is just to be expected every once and a while.

I gave you that with Debrecen and now you're asking for something else?

I would also add that the original post reflected non-league football, where it happens far more frequently that teams have a spell of success followed by mediocrity and/or relegation. There are many many examples, both of the same season drop off from form like my Bromley example, or your many examples from one season to the next. It would be far worse if FM didn't do this sometimes.

Thanks SD and madsheep

I'll just carry on plodding away

Started the new season awful

Maybe I'm just not very good at this "new" game (although took non league clubs in FM08,09,10,11) into the Premiership

I would also add that the original post reflected non-league football, where it happens far more frequently that teams have a spell of success followed by mediocrity and/or relegation. There are many many examples, both of the same season drop off from form like my Bromley example, or your many examples from one season to the next. It would be far worse if FM didn't do this sometimes.

Oh dear... I missed the non-league side of this...

I might get back to this tomorrow if what I posted wasn't enough, but let's just add Burton to the mix:

They were 19 points clear in their promotion season from the Blue Square Premier, 14 games to go and... well, they collapsed... Spectacularly I'd add! They lost 8, drew 2 and won 4 to only win by 2 points in the end.

So yeah, collapses happen, and they happen to the best of them, get over it!

I don't know much about Australian footbal but I take your example on board

The Derby and Hull examples are sllightly different (although I admit very close) as I had pratically gone through half a season only losing twice. Neither Derby and Hull had those records and nor were they top

As I said above, I will take on board all feedback and try again tonight in the new season

I do love the way this board reacts to different posts though. If anyone dares to disapprove with something the game is doing then they immediately get shot down (not by all I must add)

FINE! I'll just "get over it"

What a great reply

THANKS

I do love the way this board reacts to different posts though. If anyone dares to disapprove with something the game is doing then they immediately get shot down (not by all I must add)

It's more the comments like "What a joke" and "not realistic" as well as "pathetic when you think about it", as well as continually demanding examples and then ignoring them when you get them.

Threads/posts that provide criticism in a constructive manner, or those were the poster takes advice on board rather than insisting they must be right are good threads without problems, ones that just moan or assume the poster is right and everyone else is not, they are the ones where people rightly shoot them down.

Oh dear... I missed the non-league side of this...

I might get back to this tomorrow if what I posted wasn't enough, but let's just add Burton to the mix:

They were 19 points clear in their promotion season from the Blue Square Premier, 14 games to go and... well, they collapsed... Spectacularly I'd add! They lost 8, drew 2 and won 4 to only win by 2 points in the end.

So yeah, collapses happen, and they happen to the best of them, get over it!

Burton got promoted the next season though didn't though?

You are very good at shooting me down, this has happened to me three seasons in a row, the first season I wasn't top but was in the play offs and finished mid table. Second season was joint top and finished just ouside the playoffs, third season was unbeaten in the first 17 games, clear by 4/5 points before the run of not winning above started in January.

It's more the comments like "What a joke" and "not realistic" as well as "pathetic when you think about it", as well as continually demanding examples and then ignoring them when you get them.

Threads/posts that provide criticism in a constructive manner, or those were the poster takes advice on board rather than insisting they must be right are good threads without problems, ones that just moan or assume the poster is right and everyone else is not, they are the ones where people rightly shoot them down.

Point taken

Frankly, i feel that the problem is not with the game Padders. Maybe you are missing something and probably a sum of all the little things. Change things around perhaps, sack half the team if need to. Buy or groom another world class player, give it a go another season or 2 and you may win. It took many of the great footballing teams through long periods of learning and testing to achieve a winning dynasty. Even IRL if you assemble all the best players in the world and join as a team in La Liga, will they win the league 100%?

How many successful professional managers do you know personally? What makes you think they do not change tactics mid season or rather at any point in the season? If using 1 "successful" tactic can win a top professional league, i believe most of us here can apply for the Man U job after SAF retires. Just pointing out a point. I use 1 tactic thru out the season as well and make adjustments thru out the season.

Hope you find ways to win your league and get more fun out of it. Cheers mate.