I Can't Win Games! Is It My Tactics? (Help Needed)

Hi guys, I have been reading the forums for a little while and have noticed that a lot of people seem to be finding Football Manager easy. I have been playing since 2008, so I'm not the most experienced player but I know a little bit about the game. I love Football Manager but I am really struggling with Football Manager 2012. Every save I create and every team I manage turns out to be a disaster. I have tried using International Footballer as my reputation too recently because I heard it makes the game slightly easier but still no luck.

I always go into my saves and look at the players I have at my disposal, (I tend to play in the EPL as it's the league I enjoy the most.) I then go about creating a tactic that I believe suits my team but I never seem to get it right. Just an example, I started a new save recently with Arsenal. First game was Chelsea away and I played a basic 4-4-2 / Fluid / Defensive and got absolutely hammered 4-0. The next game was at home to Swansea and I kept the 4-4-2 and played Fluid / Control and I only managed a 1-1 draw. It seems what I feel is the right thing to do just isn't the right thing to do. Another thing is I don't know how best to exploit my opponents weaknesses without straying too far away from my normal strategy. Should I switch to long passing for certain games? Also when should I play narrow/wide, when should I press more? I need a lot of help understanding tactics really. I don't want to download other peoples because I like creating my own and tweaking them, I have spent time reading posts in the Tactics forum but I can't seem to translate much of what I have learned into winning games in my saves. Any help would be really great. Thanks.

you should ask for some help In the Arsenal thread, plenty of good tips and advice In there, and we are a friendly bunch

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276814-FM12-Arsenal-Thread-Life-after-Cesc/page18

you should ask for some help In the Arsenal thread, plenty of good tips and advice In there, and we are a friendly bunch

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276814-FM12-Arsenal-Thread-Life-after-Cesc/page18

Thanks mate, the problem I have is more general though. I am awful at FM12 with every club I use.

find a tactic that works in general, then adapt it to the team that your at. I use a 4-1-1-2-2 with most of my clubs, 2 wingers, and the two 1's in the middle as DM and CM. But then some teams have faster players so I turn the tempo up, other league play a slower game, or the players are more fragile so the speed goes down.

Normally a good tactic to go for if you can is a 4-0-2-3-1. Have the two central mids as box to box so they can be all over the pitch, make sure your attackking winger are good at running and tweak it till it works for you.

I think your problem is lack of knowledge. (no offense) But you say you try and create a tactic that suits your team? But with Arsenal you play 4-4-2? Doesn't make sense to play that with Arsenal as they like their full backs to attack higher up the pitch and having two conventional winger doesn't support this. Your much better playing 2dm's or cm's with an AMC as this packs the midfield, forcing the other team to play narrower and thus creating space for your fullbacks to get forward. Creative freedom is a stumbling block for some people as they just assume to let everyone have freedom but this means your team will generally be 11 individuals playing together. Be much more strict on your players and then at least if the tactic doesn't work your players aren't to blame. Also you said how you approach certain games in different ways in an attempt to get results, but really what i tend to do is have a basic tactic which reflects my style of management and tweak slightly before and during games depending on how its going of course, making radical changes to your approach for certain games can prove detrimental as your team will not be fluid in the tactic and results will differ hugely on play performance. A sign of a good team is one that can win without playing well and if you constantly look for that 'perfect' tactic you will ultimately be disappointed, it doesn't exist.

When I take over a team I look at my Asst Man for Tac Knowledge, Player Assessment, Adaptability and Training Attributes. If he's not up to scratch then replace him. However, when you arrive at a club he is the one who knows the players and he and the staff come up with recommendations for set piece takers, recommended formations etc. I match prep the team in those recommended and don't try to introduce a tactic you have developed elsewhere until you know your team.

When picking the team you should look at each player report on his personal screen and you are informed what he does best e.g ball winning mid field, deep laying playmaker etc. Give the player the role recommended for him within the chosen tactic.

Don't get embroiled with all the stats from scout report on opposition. If opposition fwds are quick, defend deep. Close down wingers and full backs who are good at crossing to good headers and show them onto wrong foot. Compare their defence jumping to your attack jumping and either float or drill crosses accordingly.

These are only a couple of suggestions which may help you. I know it seems simple but I have started with Preston in League 1, got promoted and have just suffered my first defeat in 14 games in Championship; it is Dec 2012. I have no money to buy players or even afford loan fees so I have tried to utilise what I have and play to the players abilities. It seems to be working and hope it helps you.

Try this out and see how you go:

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Thanks for your comments guys. In my Leicester City save I am currently in 21st place after 19 games. I need all the help I can get lol. It's so frustrating winning a game then losing 3-4 on the bounce.

I know this sounds simple, but play a player in their natural position, makes the world of difference. If your going to get out that season alive you need to tighten up the defense, set them to limited defenders on defend. Maybe drop an extra man back, either defensive mid, or even another center back. You could try a 4-2-1-2-1. Very defensive, but might work.

I know this sounds simple, but play a player in their natural position, makes the world of difference. If your going to get out that season alive you need to tighten up the defense, set them to limited defenders on defend. Maybe drop an extra man back, either defensive mid, or even another center back. You could try a 4-2-1-2-1. Very defensive, but might work.

Whenever I play defensively my opponent ends up with like 70% possession and I end up having 0 shots on target the whole game.

Try this out and see how you go:

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How the hell did you get those players to Sevilla so quickly???

How the hell did you get those players to Sevilla so quickly???

A bit of luck and the 48 month payment scheme.

It is so much more than just about the tactics. For example do the majority of your players have similar personalities and so are able to play together as a team. Do you offer up the correct pre match, half time and post match team talks. Do you say the correct things at your press conferences that send out the right messages to your team.

This game is so much more about things other than tactics. I am very poor tactically but only lost 1 game in Serie C2/B last season because I get lots of the other aspects of the game right

To be honest as your struggling I'd suggest changing your starting tactic to "standard" and unticking the width,tempo and defensive line boxes and starting again from there. Also having your time wasting so low will cause your players to rush aspects of their game which is particularly a problem with strikers in front of goal. All that having all the check boxes actually does is to stop many of the shouts and mentality changes working in match. You actually narrow your choices by employing these. I certainly wouldn't recommend this to a novice player.

I'd also change to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-2-2-2(wingers aml/amr) depending on personnel.

To sum up I'd switch everything to standard and watch the next few matches in full to gauge where to improve. While I may vary certain areas of my tactic match to match(role changes etc), I nearly always start every match with standard philosophy. I use shouts first and foremost but may change mentality on rare occasions.

In my opinion, the TC+shout gaming strategy may not be the best way to play as long as you don't know what each instruction actually does. As Marty78 said, any "ticked off" instruction will not change when you use shouts, so this means that the shouts are only pre-set Classic instructions, nothing else. I recommend ticking off all the instructions, starting with team instructions, and experiment with them so that you learn what actually happens on the pitch when you use them. One click in either direction can often make a noticeable difference.

So here's what I do, assuming a flat 442:

Team instructions

* Tempo

* Width

* Defensive line

leave the rest be for the moment

- I usually set Tempo to slightly Slow or slowish Normal because when the opponent defends deep playing quick football will make your players impatient. However, when you have the chance to counter and play quickly this setting won't stop them doing that.

- I usually set the Width to widish Normal or slightly Wide because the wingers and strikers will be at the right angle to the goal and have the option of going both down the flanks and cut inside. Any wider and they would mostly go down the flanks, and any narrower and the strikers will approach the goal at an angle that makes it difficult for them to score on the keeper. The same goes for the defense; any wider and there are huge holes between them, any narrower and the full backs will be leave spaces to their sides and if they are drawn out of position there will be space bttween them and the stoppers anyway.

- I usually set the Defensive Line to a click around the first of Push Up. What this does is really adjust the distance between the midfield and the defense, the more you push up the tighter the two units will be on the defense, at the cost of having exploitable space behind them.

Individual Instructions

* Mentality

* Passing Style

* Closing Down

* Run from deep

* Run with ball

* Long shots

* Through balls

* Crossing

leave the rest on default

- Set the mentality of all 11 players to the first notch of Attacking. Mentality is how aggressive and risk-taking they are, their inclination to tackle and pass forward. It should therefore be aligned to Defensive Line.

- Passing style is how far a player will look for passing options, so in theory it should be aligned to Creativity. I usually set it in the mixed range for all players, closer to Direct than Short for all but the Central Defenders.

- Closing Down is how long your players will wait while an opponent is advancing on them before running towards him. Since you are pushing up (slightly), you typically don't want the 6 guys up front to wait at all. So set the closing down to max on them. The four guys in defense should also help closing down, but too much and they would always be out of position. I usually align their closing down to the Defensive Line, which is here first notch of Whole Pitch.

- Set the defense and strikers to Run from Deep Rarely. You don't want the stoppers to run forward at all, and the full backs will join the attack when necessary anyway. Set the wingers to Often and keep the midfielders at Sometimes. Since you push up the defensive line, the defense is close to the midfield, and since the strikers are now deep-lying, they occupy the space between the midfield and attack, and the wingers, being told to go forward, does the same. This maximizes the passing options of the midfielders and defense. The strikers will go on runs into space even though they are set to do this rarely, but they are much more available for passes this way.

- Set Run With Ball to rarely on the defenders and central midfielders. Sometimes for the wingers and strikers. If you have very fast, technical wingers they could be set to Often.

- Set Through Balls to Sometimes on all but the central defenders. You don't want them to impatiently go for that option all the time.

- Crossing to often on the full backs and possibly on the wingers.

- Long Shots to Rarely all over.

- Creative Freedom to Normal all over, possibly a bit more on the wingers and strikers.

- Hard Tackling on the central midfielders, Normal elsewhere.

- Moves into Channels on the strikers, Normal for the rest.

- Mixed passing strategy

Now - none of these are absolutes. If there are problem areas, for instance "invisible" wingers or lots of space behind the central midfielders, or unaggressive central defenders, tweak to your heart's content. It is just that I know that these settings work, and they work because they allow the players to make their own decisions. The principles are that mentality, closing down and defensive line should roughly align to each other, and that slowish normal tempo allows both quick counter-attacks and patient play while normal/wide (click 13-16) width allows variation between central through balls and flank play.

In my opinion, the TC+shout gaming strategy may not be the best way to play as long as you don't know what each instruction actually does. As Marty78 said, any "ticked off" instruction will not change when you use shouts, so this means that the shouts are only pre-set Classic instructions, nothing else. I recommend ticking off all the instructions, starting with team instructions, and experiment with them so that you learn what actually happens on the pitch when you use them. One click in either direction can often make a noticeable difference.

So here's what I do, assuming a flat 442:

Team instructions

* Tempo

* Width

* Defensive line

leave the rest be for the moment

- I usually set Tempo to slightly Slow or slowish Normal because when the opponent defends deep playing quick football will make your players impatient. However, when you have the chance to counter and play quickly this setting won't stop them doing that.

- I usually set the Width to widish Normal or slightly Wide because the wingers and strikers will be at the right angle to the goal and have the option of going both down the flanks and cut inside. Any wider and they would mostly go down the flanks, and any narrower and the strikers will approach the goal at an angle that makes it difficult for them to score on the keeper. The same goes for the defense; any wider and there are huge holes between them, any narrower and the full backs will be leave spaces to their sides and if they are drawn out of position there will be space bttween them and the stoppers anyway.

- I usually set the Defensive Line to a click around the first of Push Up. What this does is really adjust the distance between the midfield and the defense, the more you push up the tighter the two units will be on the defense, at the cost of having exploitable space behind them.

Individual Instructions

* Mentality

* Passing Style

* Closing Down

* Run from deep

* Run with ball

* Long shots

* Through balls

* Crossing

leave the rest on default

- Set the mentality of all 11 players to the first notch of Attacking. Mentality is how aggressive and risk-taking they are, their inclination to tackle and pass forward. It should therefore be aligned to Defensive Line.

- Passing style is how far a player will look for passing options, so in theory it should be aligned to Creativity. I usually set it in the mixed range for all players, closer to Direct than Short for all but the Central Defenders.

- Closing Down is how long your players will wait while an opponent is advancing on them before running towards him. Since you are pushing up (slightly), you typically don't want the 6 guys up front to wait at all. So set the closing down to max on them. The four guys in defense should also help closing down, but too much and they would always be out of position. I usually align their closing down to the Defensive Line, which is here first notch of Whole Pitch.

- Set the defense and strikers to Run from Deep Rarely. You don't want the stoppers to run forward at all, and the full backs will join the attack when necessary anyway. Set the wingers to Often and keep the midfielders at Sometimes. Since you push up the defensive line, the defense is close to the midfield, and since the strikers are now deep-lying, they occupy the space between the midfield and attack, and the wingers, being told to go forward, does the same. This maximizes the passing options of the midfielders and defense. The strikers will go on runs into space even though they are set to do this rarely, but they are much more available for passes this way.

- Set Run With Ball to rarely on the defenders and central midfielders. Sometimes for the wingers and strikers. If you have very fast, technical wingers they could be set to Often.

- Set Through Balls to Sometimes on all but the central defenders. You don't want them to impatiently go for that option all the time.

- Crossing to often on the full backs and possibly on the wingers.

- Long Shots to Rarely all over.

- Creative Freedom to Normal all over, possibly a bit more on the wingers and strikers.

- Hard Tackling on the central midfielders, Normal elsewhere.

- Moves into Channels on the strikers, Normal for the rest.

- Mixed passing strategy

Now - none of these are absolutes. If there are problem areas, for instance "invisible" wingers or lots of space behind the central midfielders, or unaggressive central defenders, tweak to your heart's content. It is just that I know that these settings work, and they work because they allow the players to make their own decisions. The principles are that mentality, closing down and defensive line should roughly align to each other, and that slowish normal tempo allows both quick counter-attacks and patient play while normal/wide (click 13-16) width allows variation between central through balls and flank play.

Very help helpful post, thank you sir. Also thanks to everyone who has commented.

If it's any consolation, I'm awful at the game too. Have been playing it since '99., but you now have to have all the time in the world to learn how to play it. There are so many different theories and advices that they nullify each other in the end and even if you try to learn something, you'll just end up being confused. I'm really disappointed with the course this game has taken and turned from fun to something else.

If it's any consolation, I'm awful at the game too. Have been playing it since '99., but you now have to have all the time in the world to learn how to play it. There are so many different theories and advices that they nullify each other in the end and even if you try to learn something, you'll just end up being confused. I'm really disappointed with the course this game has taken and turned from fun to something else.

This is how I feel most of the time.

Since FM11, I've been playing 4-3-3 almost exclusively, with the following "Playing Style": Shorter, More Expressive, Press More, Default, Man Marking, Drill Crosses, More Roaming. I've never had a bad season with West Brom (2011), even winning the Champions League a few times, or with Southampton (2012) playing in European competitions and currently in the Europa League final.

But, more than tactics, I think finding and signing quality players is what makes FM easy. Get good scouts, sign quality players based elsewhere (cheaper), and stick with your tactic while your doing well. Switch it up if you are in a bad run. Keep finding players and discard the so-so ones! Have the problem of having too many good players!

This is how I feel most of the time.

Don't give up mate. As long as you construct your questions in the correct manner you will receive as much help as you require.

BiggusD's post is very detailed and while its not quite how I do things it may be worth using it as a starting point.

Since FM11, I've been playing 4-3-3 almost exclusively, with the following "Playing Style": Shorter, More Expressive, Press More, Default, Man Marking, Drill Crosses, More Roaming. I've never had a bad season with West Brom (2011), even winning the Champions League a few times, or with Southampton (2012) playing in European competitions and currently in the Europa League final.

But, more than tactics, I think finding and signing quality players is what makes FM easy. Get good scouts, sign quality players based elsewhere (cheaper), and stick with your tactic while your doing well. Switch it up if you are in a bad run. Keep finding players and discard the so-so ones! Have the problem of having too many good players!

Yeah I've kind of noticed there's no substitute for quality players. Thanks for the helpful comment mate, much appreciated.

Don't give up mate. As long as you construct your questions in the correct manner you will receive as much help as you require.

BiggusD's post is very detailed and while its not quite how I do things it may be worth using it as a starting point.

Yeah thanks for your help sir.

I'm another one who is struggling. I was managing Carlisle. I got to the play-offs but lost in the final. So I decided to try the above tactics the following season. I got sacked after about ten games ;-( Perhaps my players weren't good enough to operate those tactics. (It didn't help that my central defenders got sent off and injured respectively. Also I didn't have any specialist wing-backs and my DL seemed to have a tendency to run out of puff.)

I might try the same tactics with a better team.

I'm another one who is struggling. I was managing Carlisle. I got to the play-offs but lost in the final. So I decided to try the above tactics the following season. I got sacked after about ten games ;-( Perhaps my players weren't good enough to operate those tactics. (It didn't help that my central defenders got sent off and injured respectively. Also I didn't have any specialist wing-backs and my DL seemed to have a tendency to run out of puff.)

I might try the same tactics with a better team.

Which one? Mine? Are you playing FM13?

Which one? Mine? Are you playing FM13?

Hi, BiggusD. Yes, I'm using the ones which you have outlined in this thread .... FM12.

I haven't bought FM13 - not much point if I cannot master FM12.

I'm another one who is struggling. I was managing Carlisle. I got to the play-offs but lost in the final. So I decided to try the above tactics the following season. I got sacked after about ten games ;-( Perhaps my players weren't good enough to operate those tactics. (It didn't help that my central defenders got sent off and injured respectively. Also I didn't have any specialist wing-backs and my DL seemed to have a tendency to run out of puff.)

I might try the same tactics with a better team.

the play-offs with carlisle isnt poor at all, think you should hace tried to improve the squad and keep going with your tatics

My tactics usually require a bit of team gelling and tactical familiarity. With some teams it can take a good while before they work. After all, how can a player make the correct decision if he is unaccustomed to what his teammates do?

Holiday with the tactic selected until mid-november and see if you like better what you see then.

I'm another one who is struggling. I was managing Carlisle. I got to the play-offs but lost in the final. So I decided to try the above tactics the following season. I got sacked after about ten games ;-( Perhaps my players weren't good enough to operate those tactics. (It didn't help that my central defenders got sent off and injured respectively. Also I didn't have any specialist wing-backs and my DL seemed to have a tendency to run out of puff.)

I might try the same tactics with a better team.

First of all, I think you need to determine your team's playing philosophy. Possession-based? Soak and strike? Once the style has been determined, try to use that as a base on which you build your formations around.

Next comes the understanding of the tactics. Say you are playing Chelsea away, employing Defensive tactics with Fluid formation. Defensive strategy means that almost your entire team will stay back to defend, leaving perhaps your lone striker up front. Against a strong team like Chelsea, it would be better to play a Counter strategy as it would be extremely taxing for your team to defend for the entire match and not concede any goals. Having a Fluid formation means that your players will roam about and not stick to their positions, i.e. strikers filling midfielder's position and midfielder occasionally playing as a defender. That could confuse your defense and give Chelsea more opportunity to score.

Another is your home match against Swansea, which you played with Control strategy with Fluid formation. Control strategy means that your team will focus heavily on possession, attempting through-balls/approaching the penalty area only when gaps appear. This means that your team would have less shooting chances. Couple that with a Fluid formation, it is likely that even when chances present themselves, your best shooters may not be in the position to take them as they might be physically in another area of the pitch when that happens. Hence, your team is unable to break Swansea down and can only play out a draw.

First of all, I think you need to determine your team's playing philosophy. Possession-based? Soak and strike? Once the style has been determined, try to use that as a base on which you build your formations around.

Next comes the understanding of the tactics. Say you are playing Chelsea away, employing Defensive tactics with Fluid formation. Defensive strategy means that almost your entire team will stay back to defend, leaving perhaps your lone striker up front. Against a strong team like Chelsea, it would be better to play a Counter strategy as it would be extremely taxing for your team to defend for the entire match and not concede any goals. Having a Fluid formation means that your players will roam about and not stick to their positions, i.e. strikers filling midfielder's position and midfielder occasionally playing as a defender. That could confuse your defense and give Chelsea more opportunity to score.

Another is your home match against Swansea, which you played with Control strategy with Fluid formation. Control strategy means that your team will focus heavily on possession, attempting through-balls/approaching the penalty area only when gaps appear. This means that your team would have less shooting chances. Couple that with a Fluid formation, it is likely that even when chances present themselves, your best shooters may not be in the position to take them as they might be physically in another area of the pitch when that happens. Hence, your team is unable to break Swansea down and can only play out a draw.

I'm sure he's fine now, one-and-a-half year later