Creative Freedom – how it works. Explanation.

Hi guys,

I’ve watched bazillion matches in 3D and finally found out how Creative Freedom works and how its settings affects players decisions on field.

There’re a lot of questions on different forums about it and a lot of suggestions/explanations on this matter. I found out mostly of them simple wrong or misleading.

1) Mostly common suggestions is that more Creative Freedom you give to the player then more he go away from his tactical instruction and do his own thing. This one is wrong or mostly wrong. For example, if you set Run with ball at minimum(Rarely) and Creative Freedom at maximum(Much) for defender you still won’t see him dribble as mad.

2) There’s also common and wrong suggestion that much Creative Freedom should be given to the players with high Creativity, Flair, Decisions etc. attributes and after that he’ll play like a god

To explain how Creative Freedom works I’ll try this example. Let’s say your team at defense and one of your defenders make interception and now he has to decide what to do with ball. There’s option for him - make pass to the midfielder who is in good position and there’s only small chance let’s 5% chance that this pass will be intercepted or he will be closed down before he can make this pass. Also image this defender have excellent mental and technical skills about 20, I’m talking about stats like Composure, Decisions, Anticipation, Creativity, Technique, First Touch and Passing – all stats about 20! So this pass would be piece of cake for him but you had set his Creative Freedom to minimum(Little) and what he will do in this case? He just put long ball to nowhere because his Creative Freedom is set to minimum(little). He doesn’t want take risk even is risk is so small and his attributes so high.

Be careful Creative Freedom for almost all defenders roles is set to Little by default setting and because of it no matter how good mental and technique attributes of your defenders their play with ball at defense will be always looking «stupid». They’ll be play a lot of stupid long ball up filed even you set Passing Style – Short, and no Through Balls, no Counter Attack etc. Even world star defenders will be play ridiculously safe in simple situations if their Creative Freedom is set at Little.

We all know Barcelona playing style even under high pressing at defense they always stay calm and don’t hesitate pass back to the keeper and because of it they achieve great possession level. You won’t play such style even if you have world class defenders and GK with excellent mental and techniqucal attributes but their Creative Freedom is set to Little. To play such style set Creative Freedom to your defenders and GK minimum to Normal-Much range level.

The play and behavior of defenders have been taken for example to explain principles how Creative Freedom works and you can make analogy to other position.

Remember when you set Creative Freedom for player at minimum(Little) this doesn’t mean that now he’ll do only things you told him. This mean he won’t take risk in simple situations even if he capable easily handle it. If you set for midfielder Through Balls – Often and Passing Style – Direct but Creative Freedom – Little you won’t see him making many long range passes and through balls even if he has excellent about 20 - Creativity, Decisions, Anticipation, Technique, Passing because if there’s 0.0001% chance that his pass will be intercepted he will choose not to do it. If you want him make really many long range passes and through balls no matter success rate don’t forget to set his Creative Freedom at Much.

I hope this post will help better understand what you are doing when setting Creative Freedom level.

P.S. Sorry for my bad English I tried my best! Good luck All!

Guys, I’ve found error in my test and I apologize if this post or my explanation misled someone. I won’t delete this post but be careful when reading it(Red Text). I leave only for purpose people can understand what is all about.

I made much more testing with better accuracy and it showed that Creative Freedom wasn’t responsible for my defenders bad play. The problem was in attributes – Creativity, Composure, Decisions and some tactical settings – Mentality(has very strong impact on decisions).

After new tests It was clearly seen if defenders have Creativity below 8, Composure below 10 and Decisions below 10 they start sand balls to nowhere under little pressing even if there’re open players in the midfield or it is possible to make safe back pass to the GK. Sufficient difference comes when their Creativity above 11, Composure above 14 and Decisions above 13 . They stop play long ball to nowhere and start strictly follow their orders.

With this setting and player’s attributes - Creativity above 11, Composure above 14 and Decisions above 13 the pass 90% of times the pass goes to the open midfielder/defender or back to GK if it reasonable safe.

Player Instructions:

Passing Style – Direct.

Run with Ball – Rarely/Sometimes.

Trough Balls – Rarely.

Mentality – Defensive.

Creative Freedom – Little. Tested with settings at maximum level(Much) and didn’t notice any sufficient difference. Maybe very very rarely defenders try more long trough balls.

Team Instructions:

Defensive Line – Normal.

Wide – Normal.

Tempo –Normal.

Time Wasting – Rarely.

Focus Passing – Mixed.

Counter Attack – No.

Play Offside – Yes.

Playmaker, Target Man – None.

Also very important to notice it’s clearly seen that Mentality has strong impact on decisions especially for Full Backs. When Mentality at maximum(Attacking) for Full Backs then they start very often to ignore open midfielders/strikers even if they in better position up field and try to dribble/cross by themselves. They do that even their Run with ball and Cross ball - Sometimes. So if you want be sure that your defenders especially Full Backs will make pass to the open Winger/Striker and won’t dribble/cross by themselves then set mentality Defensive-Normal range.

It's a flair boost, giving the player the creative freedom to try the unexpected.

It's a flair boost, giving the player the creative freedom to try the unexpected.

Again I repeat this kind of suggestion is common mislead. Creative Freedom is not about «unexpected» things and it has nothing to do with Flair, Creativity or other attributes.

Let’s look on this screenshot. All players attributes is set to maximum 20(I used editor). We see that defender(Green circle) receiving ball from GK. Two opposition players(Yellow circles) is going to press and close down him. Now he has 4 options what to do: 1 option( blue arrow) and other 3 options( red arrows). What option he will choose depends on his Creative Freedom. As we can see 1 option(blue arrow) is mostly risk free after he receive the ball he immediately will put it up filed to the directions of the striker. Other 3 options(red arrow) contain risk because the pass can be intercepted. But we see that the defender has time to turn around and make pass to his team mate attacking midfielder(Purple circle).

Now if you want that your defender always chooses panic and not constructive 1st option(Blue arrow) and just simple puts ball long up field to the direction of the striker then set his Creative Freedom to minimum – Little and 90% of the time you will see that he chooses 1st options. But if you want that he chooses more constructive ways like red arrows and tries to deliver the ball to the midfielder(Purple arrow) then set his Creative Freedom to Normal – Much level and you will see like 90% of the time he tries to deliver the ball to the midfielders and don’t make panic clearance and this what Creative Freedom about.

agree with your understanding

Again I repeat this kind of suggestion is common mislead. Creative Freedom is not about «unexpected» things and it has nothing to do with Flair, Creativity or other attributes.

Yes it does, you are wrong if you think otherwise. What wwfan says is true and he should know seeing as he works on the match engine.

Let’s look on this screenshot. All players attributes is set to maximum 20(I used editor). We see that defender(Green circle) receiving ball from GK. Two opposition players(Yellow circles) is going to press and close down him. Now he has 4 options what to do: 1 option( blue arrow) and other 3 options( red arrows). What option he will choose depends on his Creative Freedom

You've missed one really important factor here. A player's composure. This has a big impact on the option he chooses. If his composure is low then he'll panic and his decision will be rushed. Now if the player is composed when been closed down then he'll not get flustered and rush his decision as much. Then there is his passing instructions to bring into the equation.

Plus the fact you've gave the player 20's for his attributes only further proves how flawed your test is and what you are seeing is not creative freedom at all.

As we can see 1 option(blue arrow) is mostly risk free after he receive the ball he immediately will put it up filed to the directions of the striker

In an ideal scenario maybe. But from the screenshot you've posted it's not a risk free option really is it if you study the screenshot. The opposition player is close to yours and can easily make the interception by stepping up as he is very well placed to make the tackle/interception. And Pavluchenkho is marked by 2 players, so again for him to get the ball would require some good movement by him. And seeing as Pav is already moving it seems then he'll be offside. Even if he isn't he will require a lot of luck to recieve the ball.

Now if you want that your defender always chooses panic and not constructive 1st option(Blue arrow) and just simple puts ball long up field to the direction of the striker then set his Creative Freedom to minimum – Little and 90% of the time you will see that he chooses 1st options.

It would depend on any PPM's he may have aswell as his passing instructions and his decisions and teamwork rating. It's not a case of just giving him low CF and he'll 905 of the time choose that option. If you think that's the case then you are been too simplistic and don't fully understand the attributes and how they work in conjunction with the tactical settings.

I suggest you have a read of this if you want to understand what the attributes actually do http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/289528-The-SI-Sports-Centre-All-You-Need-To-Know-About-FM

If you choose the right roles, the game does this automatically. because if you have a limited defender his default creative freedom will be little, a central defender will be Normal, and a ball playing defender will be much. So the game has told us what you proved. But thanks for the explanation.

I always laugh when people come in and tell wwfan he is wrong and because they have watched a few games they think they know more than he does. Good stuff.

I suggest you have a read of this if you want to understand what the attributes actually do http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/289528-The-SI-Sports-Centre-All-You-Need-To-Know-About-FM

Cleon, I understand how attributes work. I’ve been playing FM about 5 years.

I’ve tried with different range of attributes from 1 to 20 - Composure, Decisions, Creativity, Teamwork etc. and different tactic settings. And after all test it’s clearly seen – Creative Freedom has huge impact on what player will choose to do. Even with excellent mental attributes like Composure, Decision, Creativity about 20 the defender will choose «stupid» long up field pass or panic clearance into row Z if his Creative Freedom has been set to minimum Little level. And other settings like Run with ball – Often and Passing Style – Short, Tempo – normal has little impact on his decision.

I always laugh when people come in and tell wwfan he is wrong and because they have watched a few games they think they know more than he does. Good stuff.

I’m Sorry If I was rude. I don’t want to say his is totally wrong. It has impact but not so much about 10%.

Mate wwfan is one of the guys who programmes how creative freedom works in the ME, arguing with him is almost completely pointless as he knows exactly what it does and exactly how it works, no speculation, no theories, he is one of the people that makes it work like it does. Your making your assumptions based on watching games, he is telling you exactly what it does.

Sorry, again I’ve been to aggressive stand on my point of view. Only the programmers know the truth about this stuff and it useless fight about it here. I said what I wanted and now I leave! I hope my explanation and tests will help! Good Luck all!

You never came across as aggressive or anything, im just pointing out that wwfan helps with the coding of the ME, so he has actual knowledge of what creative freedom does in the game, your making assumptions based on watching games, he is giving you facts based on the code.

If you look at the menu to put the creative freedom slider, you can see the flair and creative attribute showed....So there is some chance, that flair and creative are linked more or less to creative freedom....

(or perhaps it's an error from SI as some suggestions a few days ago).

Mate wwfan is one of the guys who programmes how creative freedom works in the ME, arguing with him is almost completely pointless as he knows exactly what it does and exactly how it works, no speculation, no theories, he is one of the people that makes it work like it does. Your making your assumptions based on watching games, he is telling you exactly what it does.

I think people should question wwfan & anyone else working on the ME & 3D, anything that starts them thinking is a good thing unless of course they or anyone else chooses to ignore other peoples opinion.

The OP's mini experiment was flawed due to the use of the editor but some of the observations are sound & should not be poopooedd

he is giving you facts based on the code.

Mate, I understand this is strong argument and I know how thing can be elusive especially when you trying understand match engine by watching 3D match but I really have watched a looooot of 3D matches and Creative Freedom makes huge difference especially in defenders play. I can’t achieve such big difference by changing other tactical parameters and player attributes. For example, I don’t see such big difference when changing all player’s attributes from 13 to 20 especially mental and technical. If Creative Freedom is set to minimum for both defenders they plays «stupid» - too much clearance and long balls to nowhere no matter if one have all attributes 13 and other 20. Also no matter if you ask them play short pass, no trough balls, slow tempo and no counter attack but huge difference arrive when you change their Creative Freedom from minimum level to Normal-Much level from that moment they stop playing «stupid» long range passes to nowhere and «stupid» clearance in simple situations and start make smart passes to the midfielders.

I repeat I don’t say attributes and especially Flair have total no impact on players decisions I’m saying it has little impact about 10% impact. You won’t see big difference in defender game if you change all his mental attributes from 13 to 20 but you’ll see it if you change his Creative Freedom from Little to Much.

Look im not belittling your experiment or your conclusions, i agree with bits a pieces to an extent, although your experiment is hugely flawed. All i am saying is you have said this to someone who actually works on the game based on you watching matches,

Again I repeat this kind of suggestion is common mislead. Creative Freedom is not about «unexpected» things and it has nothing to do with Flair, Creativity or other attributes.

you could watch an indefinite number of matches and still have 5% the knowledge as the people who work on the game. You will find wwfan and cleon (who also knows a lot about how the ME works) are very open to discussion, but only if your open to your ideas being wrong. 5 years in FM terms is quite a short time, you will find a lot of us have been playing this game for twice as long.

The issue that complicates things is what flair does. In the OP's example, creative freedom might well result in the different passing options, as long as it is the right player making the pass. If CF is low, the player is very likely to follow his tactical instruction. If CF is higher, the player has the option to play the other pass if:

a) he sees it (Creativity / vision)

b) he's composed enough to try it (composure)

c) he decides it is the better option (decisions)

The result of higher flair can be very abstract. It might result in a striker hitting placed shots instead of blasting them first time. It might result in a midfielder trying the reverse pass through ball into the box. It might result in a FB trying to dribble out of the box and getting caught in possession. It might initiate a controlled passing move down the field instead of a long boot. The actual result in any given situation relies on a multiplicity of factors and player attributes.

The issue that complicates things is what flair does. In the OP's example, creative freedom might well result in the different passing options, as long as it is the right player making the pass. If CF is low, the player is very likely to follow his tactical instruction. If CF is higher, the player has the option to play the other pass if:

a) he sees it (Creativity / vision)

b) he's composed enough to try it (composure)

c) he decides it is the better option (decisions)

The result of higher flair can be very abstract. It might result in a striker hitting placed shots instead of blasting them first time. It might result in a midfielder trying the reverse pass through ball into the box. It might result in a FB trying to dribble out of the box and getting caught in possession. It might initiate a controlled passing move down the field instead of a long boot. The actual result in any given situation relies on a multiplicity of factors and player attributes.

It is exactly what I’m talking about!

I’m trying to explain when you change his Creative Freedom to minimum level you just manually take away a lot of option from the player! And when Creative Freedom is set to minimum he has ridiculously small options to choose. Be very careful when you set Creative Freedom for the player lower then Normal level because he can be a great player and all his attributes is about 20 but if his Creative Freedom is set at Little level he will be playing like a dummy because you have taken away all options from him.

I haven’t noticed any stupid decisions from defender with casual mental attributes around 12 when his Creative Freedom is set to Normal-Much range but I’ve saw a lot of stupid decisions from defender with all attributes around 20 when his Creative Freedom is set to minimum level.

Sorry Clearcut but you write on the beginning of this post :

Creative Freedom is not about «unexpected» things and it has nothing to do with Flair, Creativity or other attributes.

so please, be accurate when you are talking about FM....when you say nothing to do, it means nothing to do.

I thought Flair just meant the player has a tendency to do things that defenders aren't anticipating (as in, Anticipation) whereas creative freedom gives a player in a given position more options from which to choose.

So while obviously related (high CF, high flair means the player will be given more options for selecting an unlikely-to-be-anticipated decision), the extended options given by high CF doesn't mean a low flair player with a relatively defensive mentality will necessarily opt for the decision defenders aren't anticipating but will, rather, generally opt for the decision with the highest probability of success.

Anyway, back to the OP, you appear to be arguing that CF is, in essence, a secondary mentality-slider. I think you need to look at the mentality of the players and consider how that might be affecting the options they're given when given minimum CF. If defenders with a defensive mentality have their decisions strictly limited, they will obviously default to the behavior with the highest success rate (simply clearing the ball) while a mid-fielder with normal mentality and minimum CF will, when presented with two options (sideways possession pass and direct killer through ball), sideways possession pass will almost always look like the option with the higher success rate when higher CF would have given them numerous other options with a potentially higher chance of success. Now, if we understand Flair in these terms as "will try options with generally lower probability of success but higher likely reward" and Creative Freedom as "given freedom to try options with generally lower probability of success but higher likely reward" then what both you and wwfan are saying makes sense.

Though if my understanding of CF is correct (i.e., more options in general with no effect on a player's willingness to take offensive risks) then that wouldn't make sense. Am I making sense?!

Sorry Clearcut but you write on the beginning of this post :

so please, be accurate when you are talking about FM....when you say nothing to do, it means nothing to do.

This is where people got confused yeah. From your opening posts to the one now you seem to have changed what you was originally saying (some of which I understood and agreed with btw). Maybe it was a translate issue or something so don't be too hard on him jim morrow

Sorry Clearcut but you write on the beginning of this post :

so please, be accurate when you are talking about FM....when you say nothing to do, it means nothing to do.

One more time I have to apologize. My English is not so good and I may sound rude and aggressive but I really don’t intend it And I’m very grateful for you forgiving me.

I thought Flair just meant the player has a tendency to do things that defenders aren't anticipating (as in, Anticipation) whereas creative freedom gives a player in a given position more options from which to choose.

So while obviously related (high CF, high flair means the player will be given more options for selecting an unlikely-to-be-anticipated decision), the extended options given by high CF doesn't mean a low flair player with a relatively defensive mentality will necessarily opt for the decision defenders aren't anticipating but will, rather, generally opt for the decision with the highest probability of success.

Anyway, back to the OP, you appear to be arguing that CF is, in essence, a secondary mentality-slider. I think you need to look at the mentality of the players and consider how that might be affecting the options they're given when given minimum CF. If defenders with a defensive mentality have their decisions strictly limited, they will obviously default to the behavior with the highest success rate (simply clearing the ball) while a mid-fielder with normal mentality and minimum CF will, when presented with two options (sideways possession pass and direct killer through ball), sideways possession pass will almost always look like the option with the higher success rate when higher CF would have given them numerous other options with a potentially higher chance of success. Now, if we understand Flair in these terms as "will try options with generally lower probability of success but higher likely reward" and Creative Freedom as "given freedom to try options with generally lower probability of success but higher likely reward" then what both you and wwfan are saying makes sense.

Though if my understanding of CF is correct (i.e., more options in general with no effect on a player's willingness to take offensive risks) then that wouldn't make sense. Am I making sense?!

T. Ivic and V. Lobanovskyi considered sideways pass the worst possible move in almost any given situation because such pass exposes in possession team to possible line breach (leading to situation where whole midfield or defense line can be left on the wrong side of ball with a single interception).

Tactical theories are always great & often easy to rip apart as they are generally very dogmatic.

From another perspective a sideways pass can be the best possible option as it can be used to encourage a rigid defensive line to break & attempt an inception which allows more space for the team in possession with an increased possibility of creating a goalscoring opportunity.

T. Ivic and V. Lobanovskyi (along with A. Moreira*, V. Maslov and M. Michels) are founding fathers of modern football so their tactical theories have obviously stood the test of time bit better then the others.

* I never managed to find a reliable source that could confirm that Zezé Moreira is first tactician that implemented zonal marking so if any Brazilian or fan of Brazilian football on this forum could point me into the right direction I would be eternally grateful.

That's an interesting point, Govnar and very true in some respects, but intuitively, I think most players will see a sideways pass as being less risky and more likely to succeed than a 40-yard through ball. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't see mid-fielders constantly making "low risk" sideways passes throughout a game (often to the frustration of their own fans).

Additionally, it also depends on your tactical set-up. If two CMs are passing the ball back and forth in a 433, an interception would still lead a player directly into the path of the DM.

Am I making sense?!

Yes.

But I want keep things maximally simple and easy to understand. All my experiments show that players with Creative Freedom’s been set to Little can easily will through away options with 90% success rate.

I’ve watched about 30+ 3D matches. All defenders attributes was set to 12 and their Creative Freedom was set at Normal-Much level and I haven’t noticed any stupid or too risky decisions from them. They played smart and made good passes to the midfielders and back passes to GK. Then I changed their Creative Freedom to Little and after that they started play really stupid made stupid clearance and long balls to nowhere in simple situation.

I was very surprised with such results because I never thought Creative Freedom works this away. I thought less Creative Freedom you give to the player then more he will listening your tactic instructions and sure I always wanted that the players do what I told them to do and set their Creative Freedom to Little level.

Now I understand It was a big mistake I forced them play like a dummy because took away all options from them even easiest one with 90% success rate

Creative Freedom should be renamed to something “Risk Amount”. It would be more suited name for it.

Also I thought wrong that if you set Creative Freedom for defenders at Much level he will do crazy things like dribble all the time long shots and through balls all the time – nothing that happens. He will be playing smart and more smarter then if his Creative Freedom was set to Little. I’m talking about players with all attributes around 12.

That's an interesting point, Govnar and very true in some respects, but intuitively, I think most players will see a sideways pass as being less risky and more likely to succeed than a 40-yard through ball. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't see mid-fielders constantly making "low risk" sideways passes throughout a game (often to the frustration of their own fans).

Additionally, it also depends on your tactical set-up. If two CMs are passing the ball back and forth in a 433, an interception would still lead a player directly into the path of the DM.

Both T. Ivic and V. Lobanovskyi insisted on automation of play. So did A. Sacchi. I recently came across same notes by Lobanovskyi were he analyzed in great detail players passing habits to help him to eradicate unwanted behavior in training.

You are right about role of DM in that situation, player like L. Leiva can help a lot in that sense.

I don't think the creative freedom should be renamed "Risk amount" which is basically what mentality is for. By lowering creative freedom, you are actually instructing them not to look for the unexpected and flamboyant options, so artificially you are "reducing" their vision (i.e. creativity) because a one touch pass to a teammate is now discarded. Understand me well, they may still see that pass to a nearby teammate but by lowering CF they are very likely not to make that call. So it makes sense that they start playing long ball as it is one of the last non-flamboyant options and a no non-sense pas. Then according to your mentality setting, another pass may have been considered by the player, do I make sense as well?

Think of it like probabilities, your player as for the discussion sake 6 or 7 passes options. Your passing style rather direct (i.e. 15 for example), mentality is 10 and CF is 10 (flair is 10) as well. Direct pass will be more likely to be picked amongst his options, passes up to 50% success rate will be as well considered, CF 10 so he will consider pass up to medium "flair" moves and discard the too fancy, unexpected ones. Then, add to this the "play short and simple pass" as a PPM and you've got basically 4 layers (pass setting, mentality, Creative Freedom, PPM) interacting each other about which pass is more likely to be chosen. Of course, you'd have attributes like teamwork, it is a tendency attribute as well and many others that comes into play regarding the vision (at least creativity and concentration) and then the decision making process "quality"(at least decision, composure), anticipation is surely in this equations as well.

I don't think the creative freedom should be renamed "Risk amount" which is basically what mentality is for. By lowering creative freedom, you are actually instructing them not to look for the unexpected and flamboyant options, so artificially you are "reducing" their vision (i.e. creativity) because a one touch pass to a teammate is now discarded.

Another good explanation of how Creative Freedom works but without part about “unexpected” part.

I don’t know how word “unexpected” can help explain Creative Freedom. It only makes confusions. For example, when you set Creative Freedom at Much level for the defender you can always expect from him that even if he is under heavy pressing he won’t do stupid clearance. He always tries to deliver ball to the players who up filed or make back pass to the GK. This kind of behavior from him is very expected. And if you set his Creative Freedom at Little he simple will put ball into row z even under very little pressing . This all is also very expected. Where is “unexpected” here?

The most important part in explanation is that you manually take away a lot of options from players decision list and with Creative Freedom is set to minimum you also take away simplest options witch can handle player from lowest league. Most players from higher leagues at nations like England, Spain, Italy etc. have their mental attributes around 10-12 and I specially tested with mental attributes around 10-12 range and they can easily handle Creative Freedom at Much level and if you want to be 100% safe set Normal level.

The OP may have a point here. I had my team on pretty low. CB's on little and everyone else a little higher. I changed it moving the back 4 and GK to first notch of normal, CM's a couple of notches higher and my wide men and strikers a couple of notches higher again. So whilst I have noone on "much" I don't either have anyone on "little". My next few results after a shaky period were 2-2, 4-1, 2-0, 2-2 and 3-1 which I was very pleased with and my striker who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo before has now bagged 5 goals in 5 games.

The nice thing as well is that the football has vastly improved with some lovely one/two touch stuff but also better options being chosen at times and my centre backs are now nicking the ball in front of the opposition strikers and laying off to a midfielder rather than the hoof into the stands. So as I say the OP mat well be onto something here.

The nice thing as well is that the football has vastly improved with some lovely one/two touch stuff but also better options being chosen at times and my centre backs are now nicking the ball in front of the opposition strikers and laying off to a midfielder rather than the hoof into the stands. So as I say the OP mat well be onto something here.

This what I’m talking about.

As I told before I can’t achieve such big and visible improvement in my defenders play by changing their attributes from 10 to 20. Their play still looks «stupid», under little pressure they hoof the ball into the stands or make clearance no matter what tactical instruction I give them.

But visible difference comes when I you change their Creative Freedom from Little to Normal-Much even defenders with all attributes around 12 start play “smart”. They stop make stupid clearance and put the ball to nowhere under little pressing.

I never thought that Creative Freedom works such way when you set it to minimum or little you are forcing players to make/accept only very simple decisions even if that decisions are dumbest one.

I always thought «Less Creative Freedom you give to the player more he follow your Instruction» but now I see this far way from how it really works and by setting it to minimum you are making big mistake.

Player is mindless zombie if his Creative Freedom is set to minimum-little range and doesn’t matter if his attributes are 20. So be very careful when you set Creative Freedom for player lower then Normal.

Even very casual player with attributes around 10-12 receives big improvement in his play when you change his Creative Freedom from Little to Normal-Much level.

just had a little play with this for one game just to see if it would have any difference, now it didnt make a huge impact in terms of how my team played on the whole (maybe because i just played with it for one game on a very rough and simple first try) but I did notice that I got about a 30% increase in my defenders pass completion rate, something which I had realised was quite low in the past and I had always wondered why.

It could be that increasing the CF slightly allowed my defenders the freedom to make better passes rather than hoofing the ball? I can't say thats exactly why but there was a marked improvement after increasing CF on my defenders.

I got about a 30% increase in my defenders pass completion rate, something which I had realised was quite low in the past and I had always wondered why.

It could be that increasing the CF slightly allowed my defenders the freedom to make better passes rather than hoofing the ball?

Yes, this improvement in defenders play every one can notice immediately. Other improvement you can notice if you have watched a loooot of 3D matches and know match engine well.

Sure, setting Creative Freedom from Little to Normal-Much range is not «I WIN» button it only makes your players play “smarter” and just increases your chances to win. Don’t forget that your opponents also playing «smart» and he can be more technically physically stronger.

P.S. Don’t expect miracle when you change Creative Freedom from Normal to Much there still will be some improvement but not such visible. But you can expect solid improvement when change Creative Freedom from Little to Normal.

P.P.S. Even very casual defender and GK with attributes around 10-12 doesn’t deserved to have their Creative Freedom is set to Little. It makes their play “stupid” too much stupid clearances and panic long passes to nowhere no matter what tactical instruction you give them. Normal – Much levels is right choose. You will be able to see huge improvement in their play. Normal is for central defenders, Normal-Much is for right and left defender and Normal is for GK.

i changed my 4-2-2-2 tactic from balanced to very fluid, last season my wingers were doing all the scoring, this time it is all the strikers, but conceding a fair few because no of little defencive cover. and defenders seem to defend from clearances down field better

The issue that complicates things is what flair does. In the OP's example, creative freedom might well result in the different passing options, as long as it is the right player making the pass. If CF is low, the player is very likely to follow his tactical instruction. If CF is higher, the player has the option to play the other pass if:

a) he sees it (Creativity / vision)

b) he's composed enough to try it (composure)

c) he decides it is the better option (decisions)

The result of higher flair can be very abstract. It might result in a striker hitting placed shots instead of blasting them first time. It might result in a midfielder trying the reverse pass through ball into the box. It might result in a FB trying to dribble out of the box and getting caught in possession. It might initiate a controlled passing move down the field instead of a long boot. The actual result in any given situation relies on a multiplicity of factors and player attributes.

Hello, i have a question for you about vision.

Do you think it existing this kind of angle of vision ?

And secondly, a kind of refresh timing (mili seconds ), about perception of opportunities, partners / opposite players, in the view ?

Thanks for your lights.

No idea ? It's often a usual factor in lots of games, for lots of units ... why not in this one, under a sub invisible layer ?

It's just a question ...

I'm sorry I didn't read through the whole thread (will later on) but I'm still gonna share my thoughts. City - Rovers starting in a bit so I'll be brief.

I think that Creative Freedom frees the player to use all his mental attributes to full extent. Not just creativity and flair, although they are the most important ones but composure, decisions, off-the-ball, all them bitches. It doesn't necessarily give new options but it kind of overrules mentality and other instructions and makes usually improbable decisions more feasible to the player whether he be keeper or striker or anything in between.

I agree with the OP.

Hello, i have a question for you about vision.

Do you think it existing this kind of angle of vision ?

And secondly, a kind of refresh timing (mili seconds ), about perception of opportunities, partners / opposite players, in the view ?

Thanks for your lights.

It's a bit of both.

A player will have higher creativity (the in-game equivalent of "vision") if he a) gets his head up and looks for those passing options, and b) is very good at imagining passes that could be done but aren't immediately obvious. High creativity makes players spot both a greater number of options, and a greater quality of options (that is, they might spot a lofted through ball where others would spot a pass to feet).

Yes it does, you are wrong if you think otherwise. What wwfan says is true and he should know seeing as he works on the match engine.

I really don't think that says a lot since the engine and the tactic mechanics are mostly unbalanced and complete wacko in their design.

FM is a psychology simulation and not a football simulation since morale plays bigger role than tactics. So new takes on established things can only be a good thing.

see.. i don't understand - how does watching a 3D match give you a better opinion over watching a 2D classic match? it's basically just a birds eye view... what I really want to know about passing and creative freedom is why do players rarely (or dare I say NEVER) cut the ball back when it's 2 on 1(GK)? They always just seem to sky it over the bar (or on rare occasions score) .. is this to do with decisions and the such like?

Okay , so when I read this thread i was like " they try to argue with wwfan again , not gonna happen"

But I said to myself ... hmm maybe just a quick look since i already have a match playing in the background .

I had a problem that my keeper (with no pressure) just hoofs the ball upfield, same goes for the defenders.

my dmc is just standing still and waiting for things to happen and loses the ball.

I increased their creative freedom to much (about 15) and waited to see what happens

Here is what I have found

when under pressure my defenders either pass the ball nice and short or in the case of my FB's they somethimes dribbled their way out of trouble.

but the most amazing thing i noticed was when my keepers was pressure by 2-3 players he saw a gap between them and played a pass between them. i was amazed even I didnt see that gap as possible. so what im trying to say is that

:

Yes creative freedom made my defenders play better than ever and there was no stupid clearences

thanks clearcut

*sorry for the english*

Thanks for the post Clearcut, and for sticking with it even though you were trolled and rickrolled and misunderstood. I've never accepted the idea that low CF makes players adhere to their instructions more closely. That is just far far too simple an answer for what is observed. For one thing, tactical instructions do not describe every decision making situation. For another, when you become really determined to have your tactical instructions carried out more frequently on a particular issue you begin to notice the limits of the Tactics input, including CF. For example, if you would like your MC to almost always try a through ball if there is anyone ahead of him, can you do it? No. Can you have your winger always cross from deep? No.

And if you buy the idea that "lowering CF will have your players follow your instructions more rigidly" your first thought will be "To have them do X more, I'll lower CF", and it generally does not work out

I think you're on the right track with your conclusions, though there is plenty of room for dealing with the myriad other subtleties that affect these situations. Your experimental method is reasonable, IMO. Isolate one variable and put it through the paces. I've done similar experiments in the past using exactly matching teams of exactly average players and it was a heck of a lot of work, but satisfying.

I hope you post more threads like this and/or go into more depth with this CF experiment.

I think this could simply be a case of clearcut having a valid point going by testing (which obviously works as has been testing by himself and RDSkillz) arguing against wwfan (coder of the ME therefore know's what he is talking about.)

Both guys have valid points to what they are saying as has been pointed out before and naturally people are going to side by the person with more inside knowledge of what is happening but I feel clearcut does have valid points although giving the wrong person high cf could result in giving the ball away needlessly as SI warn us about in the hints and tips that pop up.

Well noted points clearcut and congrats on finding them but some of your points did come across quite strong, I did notice you have apologized and stated that it wasn't how it was meant and I assume from your wording that English is not your main language but try and tone it down in future.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth to this and I do feel both sides have good points and think it's a mix between what clearcut and wwfan is saying to get the ideal playing style, hell maybe this finding of clearcut could help people create the perfect Barcelona tactic at some point.

Well, based on what Clearcut is saying, there is no adverse effect to assigning maximum creative freedom to all 11 players. I doubt that is what he argues for, but without looking for such adverse effects to max CF through testing that is what the conclusion must be based on his current findings.

He may have found a flaw in the ME, though. An unintentional effect not of CF but of how the lack of superb morale after 12.1.1 makes the likelyhood of panicky clearances much higher than it should be. He is right that the decision-making is tainted by an urge to clear the ball in situations where real footballers would never do so. In my opinion, the likelyhood of clearances actually lifting pressure off of a team is too low. They are too often coming right back at you within seconds making things even worse. There is an extreme amount of throw-ins and unnecessary corners because of this and we all know about first post corner exploits (now also used by the AI) and the lack of marking on throw-ins, making clearances a very very unwanted major problem and rarely ever the correct choice. He has now found out that increasing CF alleviates some of these problems, as it decreases the chance of a clearance occuring when it shouldn't.

That is actually a significant finding. The reduction of bad clearances could severely tip the scale in the human user's favour. SI should look into it.

It's a bit of both.

A player will have higher creativity (the in-game equivalent of "vision") if he a) gets his head up and looks for those passing options, and b) is very good at imagining passes that could be done but aren't immediately obvious. High creativity makes players spot both a greater number of options, and a greater quality of options (that is, they might spot a lofted through ball where others would spot a pass to feet).

Thank you. Interesting. That was what I supposed. The decision makes the remainder.

Simple and logical explanation.

Clearcut and I haven't actually disagreed. Technically, CF is a flair boost. How that influences play takes multiple forms. One of those might be a greater inclination to play the ball out of defence when given instructions to clear. Conversely, it may also result in a direct through ball when instructions are to play ball out. It might instigate a fantastic passing move, or it might result in a player losing possession in a dangerous area. It is not necessarily the best option, although it might be with the right players.

Let's also be clear. I don't code the ME or any part of FM. My involvement relates to the TC and how tactical concepts might be better incorporated into the ME / AI. Marc Duffy explained it all in a blog about FML.

Important. I’ve edited my first post. Please read.

Um, wait, what?

Are you saying that changing your CF settings had no impact, and that instead you were changing their stats? How much of the original post are you throwing out?

Um, wait, what?

Are you saying that changing your CF settings had no impact, and that instead you were changing their stats? How much of the original post are you throwing out?

He's throwing out all of it, which is a shame, as the basis of it isn't too far wrong. Higher CF might result in good defenders playing a wider variety of passes when they are on, even if their tactical instructions tell them to do otherwise. However, it might also result in poor defenders trying idiotic things.

Ultimately, as my post # 17 suggests, it is other factors that make the most difference. However, these may be brought into play more when CF is higher.