How come the computer only bids what a player is 'worth', whilst as a human player I have to bid approximately 6 times more??

This has been happening for ages now and has been particularly bad in FM2008.

Being asked to pay £40 million for CArlos Vela by Arsenal, whilst at the same time they arent prepared to pay more than £20 million for robinho seems a tad unfair imo

This has been happening for ages now and has been particularly bad in FM2008.

Being asked to pay £40 million for CArlos Vela by Arsenal, whilst at the same time they arent prepared to pay more than £20 million for robinho seems a tad unfair imo

Not unfair at all.

It is your choice to bid higher than the value as it is their choice not to bid higher.

The simple solution is move on to the next target.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DJdeMarco:

Not unfair at all.

It is your choice to bid higher than the value as it is their choice not to bid higher.

The simple solution is move on to the next target. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

explain how it is unfair when this happens with 9/10 players you bid for, yet the AI wont bid much more than the value??? it means I have to pay over the odds whilst the AI buy players cheap.

I have offered 5/6 times more than value for a player and had a bid rejected, next minute another AI team has bid marginally more than asking price nad had the bid accepted

Its unfair, i am being constructive here, DJ, if you simply an apologist for what is quite clearly an issue then kindly refrain from posting any further in this thread. cheers

There are other factors to consider too. If you are bidding for a player from a rival club or a club in the same league they may demand more money.

I also tried to buy Vela and Arsenal refused a 25mil bid from me (Blackburn). We are not listed as rivals but the news item said the bid was refused due to our 'league rivalry' as we had both challenged for the title the previous year. They then accepted a Real Madrid bid of 15 mil. It must be as they are not in the same league.

You also need to be careful about post/pre match comments and your general relationship with a manager as this affects the likelyhood of a bid being accepted.

On the other side, I had a good relationship with Avram Grant which enabled me to pick up Mancienne and Woods quite cheaply (similar offers from Spurs and Man U were refused). I also got scouting knowledge of Israel and picked up some players there so it works both ways

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to.

And on a few of my games, Arsenal have paid 41m for Vicente (first season), 25mil for Joaquin (first season) and 23m for Mutu (first season) ... all differernt games of course but still .... It's only ever very average players where the computer won't bid higher than the asking price.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theboydonegood:

explain how it is unfair when this happens with 9/10 players you bid for, yet the AI wont bid much more than the value??? it means I have to pay over the odds whilst the AI buy players cheap.

I have offered 5/6 times more than value for a player and had a bid rejected, next minute another AI team has bid marginally more than asking price nad had the bid accepted

Its unfair, i am being constructive here, DJ, if you simply an apologist for what is quite clearly an issue then kindly refrain from posting any further in this thread. cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was responding to your first post in this thread which didn't mention the whole issue (being that the AI offers less for the same player and the offer gets accepted).

Your first post is complaining that the AI will only pay less for a completely different player. Had you chosen to state your point correctly, my response would have been different.

There are many reasons a bid would be rejected (including relationships between managers/teams and the way the money is offered). As you haven't given any detail of the problem, it is difficult to say whether or not your particluar issue is the game or you.

I agree that there is an issue with the lack of any real negotiation and with the AI knowing exactly how to offer the money to get a player for less than the human player.

As for your attempt at putting forth a valid argument by suggesting I am an apologist and should refrain from posting in this thread, grow up.

If you would state your case in a complete fashion rather than giving minor details which aren't even close to the actual point you are trying to make then you would find that, for the most part, I agree with you that there is a problem in the way this works.

Another thing that can make a big difference is setting a deadline. If you demand a quick response teams often seem to get wound up and want more money.

I have seen many times the ai teams having to pay 2-3 times what the player is valued at, there are mant factors involed in bids being accepted.

You're lucky mate, at Barcelona I've just lost Messi to Roma for £56 million, when Roma (AI) smacked a bid in and the Chairman accepted on my behalf (cheeky sod!!). I was gutted!

So the AI definitely will bid over the value price (can't remember what Messi was worth but not even half the £56 mil). I didn't need the money, but DID need Messi.

not ture actually real madrid in my QPR game payed £53M for Montolivio and then £58M on Karim Benzema

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megafan2005:

not ture actually real madrid in my QPR game payed £53M for Montolivio and then £58M on Karim Benzema </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is where the main problem lies.

I don't think any team, AI or human, should be paying that kind of money for players.

I feel that the algorithm for calculating player values and what the AI pays/expects to receive for players is not very balanced and needs some work.

If players are being bought for those values at the higher end of the market, it surely has an impact of inflating prices in general as it slides down the scale.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the point. The problem is that the AI teams don't accept your offer FIRST, not another AI offer. Suppose your team is the only one interested in a player? Then what? Do we have to pay 5 times as much because no-one else is bidding for him?

And this has happened on my game many times. Just recently I attempted to sign Criscito from Real Madrid (I am with Inter) for 26m. The offer was rejected. Merely 2 weeks later he was bought by AC Milan for only 15m. Clearly there is something wrong, and as you can see, there were no rivalries or any other issues that may have affected the transfer.

I've bought plenty of pplayers for below their actual value

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of the time I try to do that the other club re-negotiates the deal ie: screws me, asking for more money and a % of the next sale. I think the transfers need to be re evaluated for FM 09.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it won't, Newcastle had a £19 million bid for Mascherano accepted on my game, but my bids kept being rejected of £19million. Happened with another player but I forget who it was.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Minez01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the point. The problem is that the AI teams don't accept your offer FIRST, not another AI offer. Suppose your team is the only one interested in a player? Then what? Do we have to pay 5 times as much because no-one else is bidding for him?

And this has happened on my game many times. Just recently I attempted to sign Criscito from Real Madrid (I am with Inter) for 26m. The offer was rejected. Merely 2 weeks later he was bought by AC Milan for only 15m. Clearly there is something wrong, and as you can see, there were no rivalries or any other issues that may have affected the transfer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well actually i find this isnt the case, for example Lee Cook was valued at 2 million but I made a bid of £0 and had it accepted. It depends on how important to the team the player is and the financial situation of the club, for example i often go to the job screen and then list clubs by financial situation and then go to decent clubs and buy there players for knock down prices as they need the money and the chairman will allways accept, just like when leeds sold all there players for bugger all.

when you have man city buying almunia for £11.75mill in my game and micah riards going to ac milan for 35mill i dont think they only pay what the player is worth.

i've also sold sissoko to newcastle for 15mill when he was nearer 5mill and crouch for 12mill when he's more 7mill

i always get bids accepted when matching an AI bids accepted bid.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

i always get bids accepted when matching an AI bids accepted bid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't. It is a problem. So is the sale value for most players in the game.

Negotiating with the AI will get you nowhere.

I remember bidding for a player worth 7m. The highest I would go is 12m. So they came back with the same 19m price tag to take the player after trying to get him for 12m. It was back and forth with me changing to 12m and them coming back with 19m. So I just gave up and withdrew.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Minez01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the point. The problem is that the AI teams don't accept your offer FIRST, not another AI offer. Suppose your team is the only one interested in a player? Then what? Do we have to pay 5 times as much because no-one else is bidding for him?

And this has happened on my game many times. Just recently I attempted to sign Criscito from Real Madrid (I am with Inter) for 26m. The offer was rejected. Merely 2 weeks later he was bought by AC Milan for only 15m. Clearly there is something wrong, and as you can see, there were no rivalries or any other issues that may have affected the transfer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is the point.

If you scout a player say weekly. You wil notice the price they want will vary dramatically.

It usually involves contract renewals etc. You just have to be on the ball to get the best prices.

Notice how SI never answer this question?

I found this quite troublesome. I see Arsenal buying Ezquiel Garay for 6m, Bale for 11, Moutinho for 10 and Berbatov for 13. Meanwhile I was already rejected with the following:

Garay: 16m + 50% clause

Bale: 15m

Moutinho: 20m

Berbatov: 32m

or even worse. Fiorentina refused my 35m bid for Frey but easily sold him to bloody Milan for 15.....

Honestly, what the hell?

I'm finding it extremely hard to keep United in the top, Giggs becomes poor after a season, and scholes starts to fail at the same time. Neville slows down a lot. Rooney and Tevez doesn't seem to get along as they never score.

Also, howcome Tottenham has 150m to shop for after a season? They finished like.. 16th, no euro cup play, no nothing. Yet they still have lots of money...

And I know Arsenal are good, but no way in hell are they this good. Eduardo is untouchable, Adebayor scores more than bloody zlatan and Bendtner seems to be the real white pele...

Just venting my frustration...

It's all about timing.

My point with united is that I have 40m to shop for. Tottenham demands 47 for Berbatov, Sevilla wants 66m for Alves, Atletico demands 100m for Agüreo (someone told me he was cheap, liars)

and 30m for Bale. A good replacement for Scholes would easily cost me 50m with these prices, and for giggs, well let's just say the cheapest semi decent replacement I found would cost me bloody 25m. this for a player who won't become any better than "Gigg's current level"

Seriously someone please explain to me what's going on.....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

It's all about timing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Milan bid 15 the same bloody day I bid 35. Yet they reject mine and accept theirs. How is that about timing? same with bloody berbatov.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

It's all about timing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it isn't all about timing. There's a problem, and timing only helps a little. Please don't say you don't see the disparity because then SI will be less likely to fix it.

Check out Canabary's post above, that's my typical experience too.

1. you can't see the total of what AI teams are offering so you don't know exactly how much they are

2. manager and club relationships can be deal breakers in this.

3. the values an AI manager will accept for a player are the same (except for instances of 2.).

They'll want 30m for example, then depending on things like manager and club relationships (are you friendly with them? are you in the same league? are you in direct competition? etc) the number will change.

There's problems with how AI value players imo, but they don't favour AI teams just because they're AI teams.

The bid was 15m no clauses no nothing.

My bid was 35m.

Milan is in the same league as Fiorentina, I'm not

Fiorentina did not qualify for ECC, I did, therefore I'm not a threat to them.

Ancelotti and the fiorentina manager aren't exactly friends.

And no the values are mostly never the same, as I tried to bid 15m afterwards, but noo rejected.

City offer 11.5m for bale, I offer 15 to secure the deal. I get told to f**k off while Tottenham's bid is accepted.

I highly doubt Eriksson and Ramos are best buds.

Moutinho, I offer 20, get rejected. Liverpool and City offer 10. theirs get accepted.

It all depends on the player. I've got Christian Zapata on my team (Arsenal) and either Barcelona or Real Madrid approached submitted a bid worth his value, around £11.25m. I upped the price to £20m and they came back with that. I still declined as Zapata, but the point is, you can sell players for more than they are worth.

Take a look at who you are bidding for. You're after marquee players in their prime. Your best bet is to try to unsettle the players enough that the club has to sell that (player interaction and bid after bid) You can find replacement that are good enough. And it is more than just the attributes on the screen.

Bid on younger players with promise. If they don't pan out, it was better to spend £5m on a him than £20m+ on a player that might be good, but also has an equal shot of not fitting into your team.

Offer contracts to players on expiring deals. Easily the best way to upgrade your squad if it is the right year. At the beginning of each season, look for players with expiring deals and state your interest. Come January, offer them deals and keep offering until they sign with someone.

There's no "is manager human: [yes/no]" aspect to the code. The reason for that happening will not be that you are human.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Harper:

It all depends on the player. I've got Christian Zapata on my team (Arsenal) and either Barcelona or Real Madrid approached submitted a bid worth his value, around £11.25m. I upped the price to £20m and they came back with that. I still declined as Zapata, but the point is, you can sell players for more than they are worth.

Take a look at who you are bidding for. You're after marquee players in their prime. Your best bet is to try to unsettle the players enough that the club has to sell that (player interaction and bid after bid) You can find replacement that are good enough. And it is more than just the attributes on the screen.

Bid on younger players with promise. If they don't pan out, it was better to spend £5m on a him than £20m+ on a player that might be good, but also has an equal shot of not fitting into your team.

Offer contracts to players on expiring deals. Easily the best way to upgrade your squad if it is the right year. At the beginning of each season, look for players with expiring deals and state your interest. Come January, offer them deals and keep offering until they sign with someone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The selling part isn't a prolem. I have had 10m bids for Foster who's calued 3.5m The problem for me is that the other clubs seem to get players a lot cheaper than me.

When frey goes for 15m to Milan but is rejected when I offer 35m. That is just something I do not understand....

It seems clubs are more inclined to sell players to Arsenal, ManCity, Liverpool, Tottenham, Pompey, Milan, Inter, Juve, Barca, Real, well most clubs in fact than ManUtd.

I mean, the cheapest I could get Ochoa, who's valued 1.2 was 15m. And that deal got canceled without explination (which is a cool, but frustrating feature)

And ackter, I understand that, but instead of repeating that phrase all the time, how about you give us an alternative sollution eh?

I don't know what the alternative solution would be - but it's important to addresss the human vs AI aspect as a lot of people love to think that they're being cheated.

I'm gonna level with ya. Losing out on lower bids on the same day, that kind feels like being cheated.

I realise it feels that way, but it's important to remember that you're not being cheated.

The only way to get this issue seen to is to have save games from just before both bids are put in - that way SI can run the save game through their machines and see exactly why the bids are being accepted/rejected.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

I realise it feels that way, but it's important to remember that you're not being cheated.

The only way to get this issue seen to is to have save games from just before both bids are put in - that way SI can run the save game through their machines and see exactly why the bids are being accepted/rejected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i've often wondered about this thing about sending games in just before bids have been put in.

because when ive seen two bids put in i save and reload the previous save and the bids dont get put in.

it's the same when i kept saying that my ass. man keeps telling me that i should sell steven gerrard.

i get told to send the save in just before the message appears (someone enquiring about him) but when i reload the game the team dont enquire.

so how can you gurantee that it would happen the second time?

You can't, but if you try it yourselves a few times before uploading you can see how likely it is to reoccur.

If you manage to get a save game a "continue" before it happens then the reocurring rate is usually quite high.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

1. you can't see the total of what AI teams are offering so you don't know exactly how much they are

2. manager and club relationships can be deal breakers in this.

3. the values an AI manager will accept for a player are the same (except for instances of 2.).

They'll want 30m for example, then depending on things like manager and club relationships (are you friendly with them? are you in the same league? are you in direct competition? etc) the number will change.

There's problems with how AI value players imo, but they don't favour AI teams just because they're AI teams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ackter: I agree there is no 'AI hates humans' agenda, but you are experienced in playing this game and you must know that there is something really wrong with the transfer system. Players do move between AI clubs much more cheaply than when dealing with the human player. I do accept that there will be instances where a club will just set the price very high if they do not want to sell him to a rival club, etc, but in the situations where this is not an issue, there is still a huge gulf in the signings of the AI to the signings of the human player. This is something that we've all put up with because it's been around for a few years now - but that doesn't make it right.

There was an excellent thread about this recently "Critique of the transfer system" which detailed this issue so I'm hoping someone at SI takes notice of its content before FM09 comes out.

I had to spend more than 130m dollars for Kaka and Silva...Also when I tried to buy Aguero ATM asked me for about 300M dollars. Next year some team offer ATM about 73M, so I offered 74M and got aguero. I dont think this is fair!

Also When I tried to buy Zlatan(28) they offered me 367M dollars more than 3 times Zidane's transfer fee...

There might be a possible solution.

Say you were playing as Arsenal and you were after Ronaldo from Man Utd. Chelsea put in a bid of say £40 million which was accepted. There could be a button which says match bid. This way you know that you are bidding the same amount, plus clauses etc.

The response from the selling club could be that they accept it, or that although they realsie it is the same bid, they will reject it for various reasons, ie rival club, bad relationship etc.

I see the problem here as two fold. 1, we as human players don't sometimes know the exact offer an AI managed team has made, it will sometimes say 5m + clauses (those clauses could be anything), and 2, there is still not enough feedback as to the reasons our, seemingly same, transfer offers are rejected.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

There's no "is manager human: [yes/no]" aspect to the code. The reason for that happening will not be that you are human. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its not that its just that the other AI managers seem to know when and how to get a bid accepted whilst I have no clue

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not true. I've been rejected for bids when they computer has accepted bids of $0 from many other clubs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lamaros:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liamoville:

You've got to remember .... say if the computer bids for a player and it is accepted. The computer will always accept your offer of that price to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not true. I've been rejected for bids when they computer has accepted bids of $0 from many other clubs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disregarding the idea of you being a rival or having a bad relationship, there's other issues too...

Say you offered 10k. The AI seemed to offer nothing. They get the player...

They may have offered £0, 50% of nexct transfer and a £5k buyback clause. If the team was letting the player go due to wages or simply not needing him, and he's very young, the AI's offer is far more tempting, yet is shown as £0.

There were no other clauses. I had a 35k offer rejected. 30k offers , $0 offers, and $0 offers with clauses were accepted. I checked carefully.

Originaly they offered the player to me for 33k, which I declined then changed my mind.

There are many other transfer inconsistencies I could mention, many of them ABSURD (One club bought 50% of my player for 30k, then offered to sell me their 50% for 14k the NEXT WEEK!)

Try enquiring for the players. It's possible that the team either just doesn't want to sell the player.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's all about timing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Timing is partly to do with it, sometimes you get lucky and top players get unhappy ( i bought dani alves for 17m because transfer listed).

However where i think it is unfair is that the AI seem to know the right time and the 'magic number' when making a transfer bid, they know how much will be accepted while we negotiate blindly.

And this then leads to another problem of poor negotiations, there is very little room to negotiate with the AI, they rarely make improved offers, just keep coming back enquiring.

However i do myself make clubs pay over the top for my players i dont want to let go, but then again cant get a fair price for half decent players. Transfer system needs work but it is not a major thing in my opinion.

For me the transfer side could be improved immeasurably if the following wasnt the case:

CPU values your key players at £

CPU values its own key players at ££££££

If anyone (be it CPU or player) makes a low bid for a player who wants to join the bidding team and it is turned down the player gets upset and unsettled far too easily, even if you state the reason was because the bid was too low.

My problem with transfers is not the same as yours. When a team bids 5M for a player and it's accepted, mine is usually also accepted for the same money. But often I had bidded 8M, 10M or even 12M for that player only 1 month ago and wasn't.

So my rant is: how AI teams know when players transfer money decreases dramatically? I usually have to wait to bid for a player when another team bids for him, because AI teams know player's real value and its changes (often more than 100% changes).

Of course those players are not injured, they are performing as usually, their value hasn't change and they are not close to ending their contracts, but their transfer amount just changes :/