This Game Is Hurting My Head

i just dont get it! I cant get the tactics. I even, for the first time EVER in any fm or cm, downloaded and am using someone elses tactics!

I operate 3 tactics, the second two a variation of the one i downloaded. Number One is for general home games, the other attacking for weak opp and the other defensive for away games against strong opp. The last tactic is very effective away from home, against united and the likes. Ive been very good like that, winning most of my big away games, however i have drawn against a few bottom half teams and lost to stoke (only loss of the season). Ive also drawn ALL my big home games (tott, manu, chel, man city).

What im basically trying to get at is i just cant seem to find a good solid tactic. Its either good or terrible each game. I play away to fulham and win , then norwich and struggle to a draw, and i mean struggle. An they have Player 26 W0 D4 L22.

normall y by now i have cracked the tactics and understand how to counter certain formations and styles of play. this edition! i just havnt got a clue.

Perhaps its not your tactics. There are a lot of other reasons you could be losing.

Perhaps its not your tactics. There are a lot of other reasons you could be losing.

Like what? Im fairly good at team talks and my players are happy.

lost to stoke (only loss of the season)

What im basically trying to get at is i just cant seem to find a good solid tactic.

???? If your system only yields one loss then its probably pretty darn good!

I think your problems are probably moral or team talk releated. I have found that to turn a draw into a win I have to put in a good half time team talk, usually 'Assertive' and telling them they are doing well. One thing to note is a green team talk doesnt mean a good result, sometimes no colour or even red can turn a 6.9 into 7.5! as long as its the right team talk for the situation.

Then at around 60-70 minutes try and get some width and exploit some space. The tiring opposition doesn't expect this, even if you combine it with a double subbing and I often squeeze a goal out of it.

???? If your system only yields one loss then its probably pretty darn good!

I think your problems are probably moral or team talk releated. I have found that to turn a draw into a win I have to put in a good half time team talk, usually 'Assertive' and telling them they are doing well. One thing to note is a green team talk doesnt mean a good result, sometimes no colour or even red can turn a 6.9 into 7.5! as long as its the right team talk for the situation.

Then at around 60-70 minutes try and get some width and exploit some space. The tiring opposition doesn't expect this, even if you combine it with a double subbing and I often squeeze a goal out of it.

I think that is where i fail, with the shouts. They have never yeilded any noticable difference for me so i stopped using them mid fm2011.

There haven't been any significant changes to the ME. The reason you're finding the game more difficult is probably because players have been made far more difficult to motivate unless your reputation is much higher than that of the team you're managing.

Also players with low professionalism, concentration and determination could be hurting you (they are underestimating lower reputation opposition eg.Norwich).

I switch shouts at 40 mins to contain etc to stop goals just before half time too, and again between 70 and 80 mins to ride out the last bit of a match, depending on how its going. If its in very much my favour score wise or I need a goal I will leave it late. If I am in control and its 20 mins to go and I am a goal up I start playing defensive.

Doing that also really makes a difference!

I switch shouts at 40 mins to contain etc to stop goals just before half time too, and again between 70 and 80 mins to ride out the last bit of a match, depending on how its going. If its in very much my favour score wise or I need a goal I will leave it late. If I am in control and its 20 mins to go and I am a goal up I start playing defensive.

Doing that also really makes a difference!

I'll give that a go.

Problem is at the moment, my strikers have stopped working. Walcott has banged in 24 goals up till now and has just stopped being effective last 8 or so games. RVP was banging them in and now he just wont score. thats what is mainly letting me down tbh.

I prefer to go counter rather than defensive. Playing to negatively invites pressure onto you and can hurt you (an example in real life is the Norwich vs Stoke game earlier this year, Norwich were defending way to deep and they got punished). Of course every manager will have their own philosophy and some will work better with certain teams.

In regard to your strikers, is your team creating as many chances as they were earlier in the year?

The problem could well lie in your build up play rather than your finishing.

I prefer to go counter rather than defensive.

I a do use this also but it really depends on the situation, if the opposition are tired and you are generally in control then counter is too risky if you are only 1 goal up. Just sit back and ride out the game.

I firmly believe FM is a game you should really play depending on how the opposition are playing. Shouts and tactic changes DO make a difference (SI said every time you do the game recalculates the result, so its a risk but it could change the result either in your favour or not depending on what you do). That difference however will only be evident between the moment you do it and the end of the match or when you make another change, it will not be instantaneous, especially with only Key highlights as you see so little of the game.

Yes having a good well managed squad is essential but a little extra effort can squeeze an extra 10 points out of a season just by winning a few games and grabbing a few draws that wouldnt be if you just did a half time team talk, made sum subs and sat back and watched the game. Yes it will not always be the best thing to try and ride out a game but it works more times than it doesn't!

Going defensive for he last 5 mins of the first half thing has been my biggest recent improvement, the amount of goals I have conceded between 40mins and half time has drastically reduced! As have the goals I score in that period too, just not as noticeably.

I usually use a 4-5-1 so counter works quite well. I guess if you were using a 4-4-2 it might make sense to sit a little deeper.

I usually use a 4-5-1 so counter works quite well.

Me too, I do sit back with it by swapping a CM to DM, that works really well for me. It is a trial and error game but I have noticed that shouts and tactic tweaks have a big effect if given long enough. I have switched to extended highlights now for the second half, used to be key, as I feel I can use them to the maximum effect in the last 30 minutes and my results have improved accordingly. Of course if a game is wrapped up and is a no hoper I usually FF to the end.

well, cheers for the help guys. I totally re designed my tactics using a 4-4-2 wing system and created a bunch of 'shouts' and things are paying off! Am performing a little more solidly now. Although, still cant find the right role for RVP?

Perhaps its not your tactics. There are a lot of other reasons you could be losing.

This is the first time I have ever seen a comment that says "it's not your tactics"...

well, cheers for the help guys. I totally re designed my tactics using a 4-4-2 wing system and created a bunch of 'shouts' and things are paying off! Am performing a little more solidly now. Although, still cant find the right role for RVP?

Deep-lying forward, attack. You must give him space to do his magic. Rarely run forward and attacking mentality 14-16 will do this.

This game is killing me! I hate it.

The tactics system is just too finiky. I have a whole team of world class players, I should be able to use a decent tactic and they should play well and beat most teams. But instead, I have to play a certain way against one team, another way against another team and so on. I am struggling away from home big time. How are u supposed to play? I used to have an away and a home tactic that i would tweak a little accordingly. They used to be consistent reliable tactics. Fm2012 tho, there is just too much for a player like me to be bothered with.

I play really well for a few games, then I face Birmingham away and they **** all over me. Defending and breaking with the style and swagger of Barcelona. So I change to control the game, drop the defence back and I get a draw. Apply this against Stoke away and they beat me!!!

I started a new save with arsenal and in my first season, was in the champs league final, fa cup final and united were a point ahead in the league with a game to go and I had a game in hand, I won nothing that season. And all because of some terrible performances where my tactics just looked totally in effective because I hadn't probably made the right team talk or something.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Long story short...............I just don't get it.

Deep-lying forward, attack. You must give him space to do his magic. Rarely run forward and attacking mentality 14-16 will do this.

Sold him in the end. He just wouldn't score.

I just don't think the tactics are realistic whatsoever. They don't sync correctly to me. I can't quite put my finger on it but I just am not getting it either. I'm using the TC at the moment. The defending is horrific. My Prem players defend exactly the same as when I was having a go in Blue Square Prem. Same mistakes, same lack of intelligence. It needs to be simplified yet more in depth, if that makes any sense?

I just don't think the tactics are realistic whatsoever. They don't sync correctly to me. I can't quite put my finger on it but I just am not getting it either. I'm using the TC at the moment. The defending is horrific. My Prem players defend exactly the same as when I was having a go in Blue Square Prem. Same mistakes, same lack of intelligence. It needs to be simplified yet more in depth, if that makes any sense?

Yup it does. I too just cant transfe how i tink a tactic should work into how it does work. And i never had that problem before.

Problem is at the moment, my strikers have stopped working. Walcott has banged in 24 goals up till now and has just stopped being effective last 8 or so games. RVP was banging them in and now he just wont score. thats what is mainly letting me down tbh.

Arsenal players ceasing up with fear as the season gets serious? Sounds horribly realistic

Also, that probably is the problem - your players are feeling the pressure as the season draws to a close and the run in and big games mount up. Try and use team talks that generate a 'seems relaxed' response. If you're lucky you can get the magic 'seems relaxed and looks motivated' response Try cautious tones and the 'we can win this if you play your game' talks - see if it unfreezes your forwards.

How do I tell my Full-Backs to stay goal-side? I mean, the amount of goals I concede with Strikers making runs in my defensive third from through balls is unreal! I use to CD's with defend duty and 2 full-backs on automatic duty, i have had them on defend too, and it's too unrealistic. All I want them to do is stay goal-god damn-side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Around 70% of goals are from mistakes which pisses me off. The same mistakes! I really can not be bothered to go in depth with all this cus I'm pretty lazy but there are so many things missing from the tactics!

I have exactly the same problem, I don't know any team in world football that change formations playing at home then change formation playing away, barca don't seem to change their style and win everything

My head hurts too, imo doesn't make it realistic at all

I have exactly the same problem, I don't know any team in world football that change formations playing at home then change formation playing away, barca don't seem to change their style and win everything

My head hurts too, imo doesn't make it realistic at all

A lot of teams play differently away from home. Barca probably isn't the best example to look at here.

Arsenal, Chelsea...I know a few teams make minor changes eg Man U going with Park Ji Sung and 5 in midfield in big away games but I don't see drastic changes, plus in game no other team changes their formation as regularly as the player does

Are you saying that a team like Cardiff City or Charlton would not play with a more defensive formation if they were drawn in the FA cup with Chelsea or Arsenal?

To be honest, it depends on the manager. Swansea, for example, rarely change it, they rely on their philosophy of pass and move with a short yet direct, pacey, counter attacking approach but stick to the formation as the manager is confident his team can play. Most teams around the world keep the same formation and are successful. Whereas my team, Wolves, who are incredibly crap, change it a lot to compensate for other teams and it backfires badly 90% of the time. Most fans just want to stick to a formation and a system, which is, fundamentally, more realistic and brings confidence and stability. Minor changers every now and then is at most what is neccessary for certain games.

I have exactly the same problem, I don't know any team in world football that change formations playing at home then change formation playing away, barca don't seem to change their style and win everything

My head hurts too, imo doesn't make it realistic at all

Pep does make slight tweaks to his tactic though. Play more midfielders etc. Usually changes against Madrid really and in CL to an effect. For example in last El Clasico they fell apart like a pack of cards.

My issue isn't about having to have two tactics, I've always had two tactics. My issue is that my tactic tha I use away to united and is successful, gets ripped apart away Stoke. So I make a tactic for games like Stoke and birmingham tear it apart!

The team I have at my disposal (very very determined), I should be able to tell them 'hold back a little and defend' or 'go out and play a nice attacking game' and they do it! I shoukdnt have to tweak all sorts of areas of my tactics and change formation mid game!

My issue isn't about having to have two tactics, I've always had two tactics. My issue is that my tactic tha I use away to united and is successful, gets ripped apart away Stoke. So I make a tactic for games like Stoke and birmingham tear it apart!

The team I have at my disposal (very very determined), I should be able to tell them 'hold back a little and defend' or 'go out and play a nice attacking game' and they do it! I shoukdnt have to tweak all sorts of areas of my tactics and change formation mid game!

ALl teams in the league will play differently, it isnt about completely changing your tactic just tweaking it to counter specific threats. In my Blackburn save I have played a 4-1-2-1-2 for near enough every game for 3 seasons, it is slightly modified pre match and with shouts to counter specfic threats. For example against Arsenal who are very possesion orinentated I get at em, hassle opponents get stuck in play narrower etc to stop them playing. But agianst Stoke I would use the exact same tactic but the shouts would be drop deeper play wider retain possesion, as they dont have any extreamely good playmakers so I dont mind giving them time on the ball and when I have the ball I believe I have a tactically superior side so I stretch them and pass it around, so it isn't always about having a completely different tactic just modifying it to counter your opponent.

ALl teams in the league will play differently, it isnt about completely changing your tactic just tweaking it to counter specific threats. In my Blackburn save I have played a 4-1-2-1-2 for near enough every game for 3 seasons, it is slightly modified pre match and with shouts to counter specfic threats. For example against Arsenal who are very possesion orinentated I get at em, hassle opponents get stuck in play narrower etc to stop them playing. But agianst Stoke I would use the exact same tactic but the shouts would be drop deeper play wider retain possesion, as they dont have any extreamely good playmakers so I dont mind giving them time on the ball and when I have the ball I believe I have a tactically superior side so I stretch them and pass it around, so it isn't always about having a completely different tactic just modifying it to counter your opponent.

EDIT: Sorry with stoke I push higher up not drop deeper due to lack of pace up front, just have to watch for Jerome coming on because he is quick. But lack of pace = them not latching onto any through balls in behind.

Well I thought I had this f@ck@ng sorted but no. After a run of winning 14 out of 15 games, smashing in Christ knows how many goals, the wheels yet again fall off. Just when I think I have it sussed it screws me!!!!!

3-1 away to Blackburn I lost. Blackburn are bottom half, I adjusted my tactics accordingly and they walke right through me. Nothing I did made any difference. My defence were shambolick! Ok I think. I can take this, even tho united who are on a wonder run have just gone top.

Then, Dortmund away. Dortmund are 5th in Germany. Again I do my bit with tactics. No big changes just a little tweak to account for their wingers. 3-0 before half time. I watch Vermalen run across the pitch to double Mark a player being marked by Cahill already, leaving his man in the middle of the pitch unmarked! my defence were again awful. WHY??!! Why are my defence suddenly ineffective?

Baldy, I have that every game! The amount of goals that come from unmarked players who SHOULD be marked is silly. At any level and with every team, even players with the correct high attributes. Drives me crazy. I feel like I need to speak with my defenders individually and point out where they went wrong! My cousin plays the game and is hugely successful by employing 1 very basic tactic grrrrrrrrr! Pisses me off, I'm a footy coach and he hardly ever played footy, I got him into the game a few years back!!!!!!!! Ironic hey!

Baldy, I have that every game! The amount of goals that come from unmarked players who SHOULD be marked is silly. At any level and with every team, even players with the correct high attributes. Drives me crazy. I feel like I need to speak with my defenders individually and point out where they went wrong! My cousin plays the game and is hugely successful by employing 1 very basic tactic grrrrrrrrr! Pisses me off, I'm a footy coach and he hardly ever played footy, I got him into the game a few years back!!!!!!!! Ironic hey!

This game is going to break me. I've never known any fm to suddenly flip as easily as this one. To literally be so good one minute then abseloutly terrible the next.

I just don't get what to do. How can I anticipate this and avoid it if it just happens out of nowhere. I'm arsenal, I have all world class players nearly so I expect to have to do very little when it comes to tactics. I don't want to have to analyse every posh game. I want to have my two tactics and that's it. Like in all other fm's.

That's just SI trying to prevent plug-and-play tactics, baldy. They're practically forcing out the part of users who want to make one or two tactics and play without analysing every match and tweaking tactics all the time.

That's just SI trying to prevent plug-and-play tactics, baldy. They're practically forcing out the part of users who want to make one or two tactics and play without analysing every match and tweaking tactics all the time.

Don't get me wrong. It's good that the game is harder. It was to easy in the past. What gets me though is an average player like me who doesn't analylse everthing, I just can't understand how to stop in once it's in motion. I hate the helplessness of it all.

Let me get this straight. You have now twice gone on long unbeaten runs, as good as any in not just Arsenal's, but most clubs history, then flip out because you team has a bad game or two. How can a record of W 14 D 1 L 2 be a problem?

You finished 2nd opening season by one point. Do you want the game to be a procession of win after win, with no downturns in form, meaning you win the league and cups with next to no effort? All you have to do is learn how to win when the team is playing badly, and you'll get the successes you crave.

Come to think of it. Si must have changed something because in fm's of old you would go on a great run then hit a team like stoke and have 30 shots on goal and lose 1-0. There used to be tonnes of threads complaining about that. Now tho I noticed it doesn't happen and there are no threads moaning about it. I bet they have tweaked the match engine and in true si style screwed it up completely. Now instead of hitting the scoring wall against a lesser team, they just smash you.

I hope that si don' t listen to the whingers, I want the challenge I want to be tested everytime my team takes the pitch.

I hope that si don' t listen to the whingers, I want the challenge I want to be tested everytime my team takes the pitch.

If it wasn't for us 'whingers' fm wouldnt sell half as much as they do and you awesome hardcore players would not have a game at all most likely.

There is more than one specific market here.

Whinging or criticizing? I hate anything in life that can not take criticism. I like the challenge, but the game has it's faults, all I want is them to be noticed and bettered. Not whinging, just annoyed and frustrated at the match engine. Isn't that what a forum is for? Please, enlighten me you idiot!

Come to think of it. Si must have changed something because in fm's of old you would go on a great run then hit a team like stoke and have 30 shots on goal and lose 1-0. There used to be tonnes of threads complaining about that. Now tho I noticed it doesn't happen and there are no threads moaning about it. I bet they have tweaked the match engine and in true si style screwed it up completely. Now instead of hitting the scoring wall against a lesser team, they just smash you.

I don't think 'I win lots of matches, but because my team puts in the odd very bad performance the game and the ME sucks. SI have screwed things up yet again!' is valid criticism. It suggests FM actually reflects real life quite well.

Every team has dips in form. Good managers minimize these dips, stop them turning into slumps, and extend streaks by working out how to win/draw when playing badly. If that element went from the game, then it wouldn't be much fun, in my opinion anyway.

wwfan, my problem with the ME is not based on my results. I haven't said SI have screwed things up. I find the gameplay fantastic! But I, as some others on here have stated, the ME is poor. Primarily the defending. I'm not happy with it, others are, I don't call them idiots because they're happy with it. It's a forum, a place for opinions? Or am I wrong?

Do not go that way guys, it doesn't lead anywhere.

Everyone has its point here I assume. wwfan is right in having a 14 matches unbeaten run may give your players overconfidence, the next match may catch you in storming weather and the formation you face happen to cancel your way of going forward, etc..

It's not hardcore to expect from a management game to require you to pay attention to details I believe. There is another company saying 'It's in the game' who let you manage play and win every game with adjustable difficulty.

And of course there are faults, quite a few but they try to sort them out. And it does feel sluggish sometimes I know but it evolves constantly.

Just because you play attacking you still can try and see what they do and maybe pull them off from all-out defense and hit them fast, or find their weaknesses otherwise. Sometimes just suck the fact your team lost. Every teams lose sometimes, aren't they?

wwfan, my problem with the ME is not based on my results. I haven't said SI have screwed things up. I find the gameplay fantastic! But I, as some others on here have stated, the ME is poor. Primarily the defending. I'm not happy with it, others are, I don't call them idiots because they're happy with it. It's a forum, a place for opinions? Or am I wrong?

You haven't. The OP has.

I agree that the defending in the ME has some idiosyncrasies that could be ironed out. Likewise, some of the final third play needs some work. However, that doesn't stop you from being able to build a tight defence or a potent attack.

The issue I have with threads like these is that the criticism seems to be based around expectations that users should win every game, no matter what. Or that losing a couple of games after a P 15 W 14 D 1 L 0 record means FM and the ME are broken. Because those kind of unbeaten streaks are ultra common in reality, aren't they? For example, this season the top two in the EPL haven't lost a single match against lower table or reputation teams. Neither has suffered a heavy defeat.

As users have continually shown, when the opposing squads are not miles apart in quality, every game in FM is winnable if you do the right thing / have a bit of luck. The problem is that we will make mistakes, which will cost us matches. In terms of the OP not winning against lower ranked teams or home games against better ones, a logical suggestion would be to try and open up play more in those games, to pull the opposition out of defence and stretch them. I suspect that the OP's approach in these matches is a bit too hectic, being unable to break down massed banks of defenders. This hectic play, when a team's head goes down after conceding, can result in lots of misplaced passes, mistakes and snatched shots, resulting in the opposition over-running you.

If I see my team start a game badly, the first thing I do is ensure I minimise the potential for losing dangerous balls. There are many ways to do that, depending on the quality of the team. You might increase passing lengths to get the ball quickly down the pitch and encourage defenders to clear it from danger. You might, with a technically proficient team, sit back and play defensive, possession football. You can then get to half-time, shout and reorganise a bit, and try to win the match second half. It might not always work, but it will extend streaks and break slumps often enough for the team to gain those key extra points that make all the difference at the end of a season.

If the OP isn't trying stuff like this in his problematic games, then, in my opinion, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's pretty much football 101. It doesn't make the ME better, but it is logical and it works.

In those terms, I totally agree with you. I don't appreciate someone coming on here saying we are whinging when we are simply putting our points across. Ok, Baldy might be a bit extreme with his expectations but my point was about the ME.

In those terms, I totally agree with you. I don't appreciate someone coming on here saying we are whinging when we are simply putting our points across. Ok, Baldy might be a bit extreme with his expectations but my point was about the ME.

My bad for not including the quote I was replying to. I'll go and fix it.

@Spang - my issue is this, why do ppl tell me that there are not faults in the ME? Why do they tell me i'm 'Whinging' because I'm pointing them out? It angers me that some posters in this forum expect us to just put up and be happy with it because they are! Either they haven't noticed the faults or don't mind them. That's their prerogative and rightly so, I won't knock them for that! I have noticed them and it ruins the game slightly for me. Other than this, I find the game fantastic and thoroughly enjoyable!

My oppinion is that bugs should go to their subforum(I have a few threads there as well as I feel like there are faults too).

And the OP seemed a bit outraged this I-am-not-winning-every-game thingy.

1 thing guys: do not take things seriously and personally. This is a public forum do not forget. Although be specific and on topic would help. Now that what it is not at the moment.

You haven't. The OP has.

I agree that the defending in the ME has some idiosyncrasies that could be ironed out. Likewise, some of the final third play needs some work. However, that doesn't stop you from being able to build a tight defence or a potent attack.

The issue I have with threads like these is that the criticism seems to be based around expectations that users should win every game, no matter what. Or that losing a couple of games after a P 15 W 14 D 1 L 0 record means FM and the ME are broken. Because those kind of unbeaten streaks are ultra common in reality, aren't they? For example, this season the top two in the EPL haven't lost a single match against lower table or reputation teams. Neither has suffered a heavy defeat.

As users have continually shown, when the opposing squads are not miles apart in quality, every game in FM is winnable if you do the right thing / have a bit of luck. The problem is that we will make mistakes, which will cost us matches. In terms of the OP not winning against lower ranked teams or home games against better ones, a logical suggestion would be to try and open up play more in those games, to pull the opposition out of defence and stretch them. I suspect that the OP's approach in these matches is a bit too hectic, being unable to break down massed banks of defenders. This hectic play, when a team's head goes down after conceding, can result in lots of misplaced passes, mistakes and snatched shots, resulting in the opposition over-running you.

If I see my team start a game badly, the first thing I do is ensure I minimise the potential for losing dangerous balls. There are many ways to do that, depending on the quality of the team. You might increase passing lengths to get the ball quickly down the pitch and encourage defenders to clear it from danger. You might, with a technically proficient team, sit back and play defensive, possession football. You can then get to half-time, shout and reorganise a bit, and try to win the match second half. It might not always work, but it will extend streaks and break slumps often enough for the team to gain those key extra points that make all the difference at the end of a season.

If the OP isn't trying stuff like this in his problematic games, then, in my opinion, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's pretty much football 101. It doesn't make the ME better, but it is logical and it works.

This is all good and everything, but I think most of the frustration comes from the manner of these losses and not the loss of points. A team that is in good form and play good football doesn't suddenly out of the blue play so awfully that you might suspect that someone drugged them before the match. In previous versions, you could play well and win, then you play well and lose, and then you play badly and win and in the end you play badly and lose. In FM12 you play well and win and then you play horribly and lose horribly and then you play well and win again. This IS a problem!