England National Team - Lack of Strikers, and general moan.

I'm currently in charge of the England national side in Feb 2016, I've been in charge since 2014 and I'm gearing up for the Euro's this summer. Before I joined, England have maintained an impeccable record at International level, winning the 2012 Euros and finishing runners up to Ghana in the 2014 World Cup - strange I know. All this has been done, in my opinion without quality forwards.

Currently Wayne Rooney leads the line, who is now 30 and has an impressive 58 goals in 118 caps; other than him I find the quality very thin. In my current squad that I have selected for an International friendly the forward players that I have selected are;

-Wayne Rooney - First name on the team sheet, International captain.

-Dale Jennings - Now 23, he has developed has developed well at Bayern considering general AI development of young talent. He's actually played some games for them, but now needs to move on to a club where he will play regular first team football - which I don't see happening.

-Wilfried Zaha - Now at West Ham, after Swansea and Huddersfield; but not really playing now. Has scored goals for all teams ad has a very good strike rate. Selected and in line for his International debut. Very good physically, but lacks the skill - the Agbonlahor mold.

-Connor Wickham - Another player that is now in line to make his debut; his development has stagnated in a dire Sunderland side. Very average, not world class by a long chalk.

-Theo Walcott - Don't rate this player personally, but bias aside he seems to score goals for Arsenal at an unrealistically alarming rate. Haven't given the player too much of a chance under my tenure, but has 20 goals in 54 caps which is relatively good for a player of such average striking skill.

-Jonjo Shelvey - In past years I've always brought this guy at one stage or another, simply to save his career and develop him into the player that he deserves to be. Sadly Liverpool don't seem to be bothered in the slightest, now 23, has developed somewhat but not to the extent you would see under human control. In 5 seasons he has only 11 first team starts. I've given him 8 caps, which he has impressed in; but lacks any match fitness when he comes into play for me, which is infuriating.

-Raheem Sterling - Very much as of above, doesn't play games, needs to be at a club where he will play. Development of such potential is non-existent. I've given him 2 substitute caps, which has seen him score 1 goal. Finally seems to have made a break through into the Liverpool first team this season, but only 5 appearances he hasn't impressed in. Liverpool are wasting him.

Other players that I have as viable options could be seen as;

-Danny Welbeck - Managed him for a couple of seasons, and developed him into a goalscorer. Scored 44 goals in 47 starts in two seasons, but saw past this record to see an extremely wasteful player in front of goal, and goes missing in games. Injured at the time the squad was selected, would usually be in my side, and I plan on taking him to the Euros.

-Andy Carroll - Simply doesn't score goals, a truly awful footballer in my opinion; but can do a job if hoof ball is your game. Sadly this isn't a system I want to play, has played and been chosen simply because he is usually match fit, and is the best of a bad bunch. Has 43 goals in 165 games in 5 seasons for Liverpool, mediocre; 17 goals in 28 England caps. Somehow has developed 16 for pace, but 10 acceleration he is treading water against a decent center back. Hasn't scored this season, and it's Febuary!

-Darren Bent - Now 32, hasn't scored many goals for Villa but plays games. Hasn't been selected in any of my squads.

-Daniel Sturridge - After being released by Chelsea end of the first season, he went to Peterborough after being a free agent for most of the season, scored goals for an eventually relegated side. 13 goals in 35 apperances, in League 1 isn't that impressive; on the back of that a newly promoted Preston brought him, and is now failing to impress in the Premier League. Hasn't much hope of an International chance, due to poor performances all the time.

-Nathan Delfouneso - This guy used to score me hundreds of goals on FM10, developed into the best striker in the world by a long way. Now 25, everything previously said is a dream. Seems to be finally breaking into the Villa first team, but is used in rotation is seems. Has some potential if he plays games, but is very, very average.

Other names I'm not bothering with, because they just aren't good enough imo - Carlton Cole, Gary Hooper, Jay Rodriquez, Gabby Agbonlahor.

Plenty of regens now available, and playing for my youth set ups; but not a single one playing regular first team football for a top flight club. Yet to find one that has the potential to develop into a well rounded player; for example some are quick with no skill, some are good in the air and quick, but no finishing ect. So frustrating.

Now on to the more 'ranting' stage of this post. Big breath, hhhhuuu.. Now it seems that any English player in my game, I'm sure it's the case in other players games, that has an ounce of potential just doesn't develop due their clubs neglecting them until it is to late. In my game, players that fit this mold can be seen as Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Raheem Sterling, Ravel Morrison, Jonjo Shelvey, Josh McEachran, Nathaniel Chalobah, John Flanagan, Ryan Bertrand, Kieran Gibbs, Ross Barkley, Jack Wilshere (until I signed him, and played him) and even Jack Butland (signed him and is now first choice at only 22). In my opinion, in real life when Football Manager 2015 or 16 come around, these players will be very much International quality, and if developed half decently and simply played in games from the start of the game they would be twice the players they currently are.

It seems that their is a distinct lack of true world class quality at my disposal now I have progressed further into the game, and most of the options I have are truly average at best when comparing them to other International sides like Spain, Brazil, Argentina, France ect. This might well be indicative of the current climate that we face in English football, but it is simply not helped by the hindrance that you face as an International manager when your young talent isn't played! The only way it seems to see a player develop and see their potential is human development, prime example is Jack Wilshere; now a world class player, after being saved from the Arsenal reserves.

On a lighter note, I seem to have a wealth of defensive options that have become top quality players - Phil Jones, Steven Taylor, Kyle Walker (under my tutorship), Chris Smalling, Micah Richards, Jack Robinson (due to Spurs signing him and playing him), Ryan Shawcross, Gary Cahill, Phil Jagielka. All of these players mentioned are playing regularly at 'top four' quality clubs, therefore giving me selection problems - something you want as a manager. Although this isn't the case as Jones, Taylor and Walker three of the four more often than not at both club and Country.

Instead of this just being a floor for me to let of some steam, I would be interested to know if this is the case throughout the game on other peoples games, and if a Raheem Sterling or Josh McEachran has actually developed into their potential under AI control.

To answer your question, no. Raheem Sterling is even worse than Joe Cole, and McEachran misses his chance by staying at Chelsea. Both players are actually just massively overrated by their clubs' fans.

If you use the editor to check mental attributes of those young players you mentioned, maybe except for Wilshere, they're mediocre and prevent those players from fulfilling their potential. Their PA are high only because most of them are over-hyped by the English media, and SI researchers are mostly accurate in judging their development. They will never become world class. England has always been an average nation with only one lucky cup win on their own home soil. Don't compare them with sides like Spain, Brazil, Argentina, France, ect.

Hi there,

I too, have been managing the England team since 2014 and now, I am in 2023.

Let me give you a quick insight into the future.

GK - Joe Hart will be a great Goalkeeper, if not already one now

DL - In my game, my Arsenal Team bought Jack Robinson and he became a world class player, Kieron Gibbs is my backup

DR - Kyle Walker my 1st choice followed by Michal Richards and Chris Smalling

DC - Phil Jones is STILL my current England Player, Ryan Shawcross as my 2nd choice, Smalling & Gary Cahill as my other 2 DCs.

AMC - Jack Wilshiere as playmaker in an Advance Playmaker with Attacking setting without a doubt, James Milner, my backup, as a Central Midfielder with Support setting

DMC - Ross Backley will be a good player, not worldclass but a good Defensive Midfielder or Central Midfielder with Support setting, Jack Roadwell is quite good but a tad lacking

AMR - Alex Chamberlain will be World Class, like Jack Wilshiere. However, sadly, there's not much back up options. as mentioned by Athos above, Raham Sterling looks very promising but turn up to be an average, average player. Aaron Lennon or Theo Walcott makes good backup in this position.

AML - The position that gave me the most headache, had to fill that position with regened players, luckily

SC - Wayne Rooney of cos, till he turned around 33, Connor Wickham may look just average now, but he will be a very very good Targetman in the future, just pray a good regen poacher comes along to play besides him. Initially at your stage, I kept Sturidge as my backup to wayne rooney in my left side option along with Walcott. Andy Corroll sucks bigtime, no matter how many chances I gave him.

Now, I agree with you that at your stage, there aint much options available so I am suggesting that instead of playing 2 strikers, play the following formation. This way, you only need to use 1 striker and can fully utilise Jack Wilshiere in the AMC position as an Advanced Player with Attack setting:

............SC...........

AML.....AMC.....AMR

........MC...MC........

...........................

DL.....DC...DC.....DR

Set one of the MC as a Ball Winning Midfielder with Defend setting preferably to balance the team.

Try setting Team Instructions to Attacking, Fluid, Quick Tempo, Push Up defensive line, Wide width, Mixed Focus Passing. I set More Agressive tackling, Press More and Zonal Marking, the rest I put as default. I also play Counter-Attack and Plays Offside.

Good Luck

chamberlain hasnt progressed much on my plymouth game (now in 2023), probably stagnated from all the years spent doing nothing at Arsenal.

But what really gets me (and this isnt meant as a dig, coz i am welsh) is that England always end up winning the World Cup within 10-15 years of the start year. i mean, really? can anyone see that happening? this doesn't just happen on fm12 but every single one...

Alex Chamberlain has turned out awful on my save. He got released by Arsenal in 2016 on my save and has so far rejected moves to Dundee and Kilmarnock.

The English striker who does well on my save is Nathan Delfouneso. I sold him to Norwich who have been playing him most games in the premier league and he is a good scorer. I am actually happy I sold him though because he wouldn't of made the grade sitting on the bench with me at Villa.

Wayne Rooney is used very sparingly by Man Utd. He is 3rd choice behind Neymar and Hernandez and only plays in easier cup matches or if both front men are injured as Man Utd only use 1 striker. A good scorer for England though and always plays when fit in international's

Connor Wickham is now at Bolton and a regular scorer for them. Has turned out pretty well and 3rd choice striker for England. Probably would turn out brilliant for a human manager but can't see a big club going in for him on this save.

Danny Welbeck was useless for Man Utd and I declined a bid when I was offered him for 5.5m in 2013. He went to Newcastle and slowly began to improve before an 18 goal league season in 2016. Sadly, Chelsea decided to buy him and as you can guess he is now not playing again!

Daniel Sturridge is totally awful after 5 years of hardly playing for Chelsea. He seems to get transfer listed every season but by the summer he is taken off again and happily sits in the reserves. No chance of me signing him as he is a 1 1/2 star player compared to my squad and wants a high wage for his level of standard. Out of contract in 2017, it will be interesting to see if he moves anywhere.

On my save, Raheem Sterling has just been signed by inter milan for 12.25m in summer 2017. This after a handful of england caps, over 30 appearences in 18 months at club level and good development in key attribute areas. Mceachran is in rotation with a regen & rodwell at a strong everton side challenging in and around the top 6. Daniel Sturridge is also immense on my game, 1st choice at Liverpool.

Interesting interview on Radio 5 about 15 minutes ago talking about this in real life - specifically talking about what the arrival of Robbie Keane at Aston Villa says about the willingness of Alex McLeish to give good youth players (Delfounso) an opportunity in the first team and what implications this will have for their development

Maybe FM is more like real life than we give it credit for!

Sturidge and delfoneso are both fantastic for me at blackpool, both bagging them in and just help me finish 4th and qualify for champions league end of 2014/15 season

England has significant depth both up front in the striker area and all across the back four. Where they are really in trouble is in midfield. Can't find a decent playmaker, or decent DM anywhere!

England has significant depth both up front in the striker area and all across the back four. Where they are really in trouble is in midfield. Can't find a decent playmaker, or decent DM anywhere!

I would disagree with you there. Jack Rodwell is a key performer in my Newcastle side, and has been for the last couple of seasons 2014-16(current), Tom Huddlestone is a rock; both of whome have excellent passing abilities. Jack Wilshere, and even Wayne Rooney playing behind the forward have both excelled as a playmaker whilst playing for England, with Wilshere playing exceptionaly week in week out for the same Newcastle side.

Up front, I just find it frustrating that I'm managing a Nation that has previously won the Euro's and got to the WC Final, yet has no perceived quality up front to speak of.This must be indicative of how overrated England are under AI control, but other than Wayne Rooney I have nobody that I could rely on to give me a solid performance throughout the duration of a Tournament.

Edit; I would say, after closer inspection of Ross Barkley of Everton, he seems to be playing regularly in the Everton midfield and is their best player by a long shot. He could be seen to be a viable Midfield option.

theo walcott is a beast in this game, dont be fooled by the low stats he has the best stats where it matters

if you train his finishing and play him regularly it goes up to 17-18 and along with 20 pace and 20 acceleration he beasts the match engine

Interesting interview on Radio 5 about 15 minutes ago talking about this in real life - specifically talking about what the arrival of Robbie Keane at Aston Villa says about the willingness of Alex McLeish to give good youth players (Delfounso) an opportunity in the first team and what implications this will have for their development

Maybe FM is more like real life than we give it credit for!

I heard this and thought very much the same. It's sad that English clubs just aren't producing players that have enough quality to force themselves First team football at top clubs. I can't blame the likes of Alex McLeish for bringing in somebody like Robbie Keane, as he is competing a highly competitive league, where he needs to win games to save and maintain his job; and he has to pick the best players. I remember Delfounso breaking into the team in Europa League games under Martin O'Niell a few seasons ago, but just hasn't pushed on - that's not the managers fault, it simply the players - weather it be talent, or mental application.

It is somewhat frustrating as a keen follower of football, that you see real talent such as Josh McEachran that are not given the chance to play. Hopefully he should be on his way on loan to Swansea, which when you see what a loan similar loan spell did to Jack Wilshere a few years back, it can only be a good thing for him. Another example would be Daniel Sturridge, he was released by Man City as he was not given a future. Now he's excelling at Chelsea, outperforming the likes to Torres, Anelka, Drogba, Malouda and Kalou for most of this season and looking like the brightest English forward this season in my opinion. But this begs the question, as Mancini pointed out, why wasn't he given the chance at Man City. The answer I believe is akin to what is happening in FM, even more so actually, top clubs are so hell bent on winning games and thophies that they aren't affording themselves the luxury of developing players, when they can just spend £15-20m every few seasons on a proven Striker. Prime example, Chelsea release Daniel Sturridge, he rots and ends up playing in League 1 within 2 seasons, yet they spend god knows how much on Kevin Gamerio, for him to score a few goals now he sits in their reserves.

This might just be a personal sighting, but I believe FM really need to address some sort of player development into future games, as I believe the process, and 'Barcelona model', of developing home grown players will come to the fore front of our game within the years to come. I don't propose I have the answer to this problem, or if there is a problem in the first place. But I find that this games USP is it's realism, and I struggle find that a in game Barcelona is not filled with youth academy products even 5 years into the game to be realistic.

I knew things would go downhill for England once Heskey retired.

theo walcott is a beast in this game, dont be fooled by the low stats he has the best stats where it matters

if you train his finishing and play him regularly it goes up to 17-18 and along with 20 pace and 20 acceleration he beasts the match engine

Maybe, depending on your style and system that you play, I'm sure he can be a great player. But personally I find wingers extremely in efficient to the greater good of a team if your teams system isn't built in line with them. This is entirely a personal approach, but I find the cross to be the biggest bain of my life when playing FM. What good is Walcott bombing to the by line for him to cross the ball for the opposition center back to head away - just a wasting possession. I want my 'wide' players to show good ball playing skills, creativity - Walcott just doesn't have that.

Now, as I said in the OP, I have over looked Walcott due to personal bias, and he will be given a chance in the National team now; he has been scoring plenty of goals for Arsenal over many seasons now.

In general, I agree with the comments that England doesn't produce very good players and, as a nation, they are consistently overpowered in the starting database. In my saves, England almost always wins or reaches the final of every major international tournament until about 2020, and up until that point, they are a ridiculously easy team to manage as a player.

With that said, there is obviously a major issue with youth player development in playable countries. While non-playable countries tend to produce decent regens as their development is handled automatically and many regens start with high initial CAs, the AI in playable countries simply never gives young players a chance and doesn't plan for the future. They are content to buy a squad of decent players in the first two or three seasons then play the same squad until the average age of a premiership starting XI is about 32. Then, when those players finally retire, they start bringing in the developed regens from non-playable nations as almost all of their youth talent has been allowed to rot for nearly a decade.

Maybe, depending on your style and system that you play, I'm sure he can be a great player. But personally I find wingers extremely in efficient to the greater good of a team if your teams system isn't built in line with them. This is entirely a personal approach, but I find the cross to be the biggest bain of my life when playing FM. What good is Walcott bombing to the by line for him to cross the ball for the opposition center back to head away - just a wasting possession. I want my 'wide' players to show good ball playing skills, creativity - Walcott just doesn't have that.

FWIW, Walcott isn't much of a winger in either real life or FM12. He only plays out wide because Wenger doesn't rate him well as a centre forward, but that's his preferred position. In the game, he works best as a poacher in a two-striker system or an inside forward.

It frustrates me -in real life- when managers (in particular foreign ones) never use youth players. Take Liverpool as an example, under Benitez and Hodgson, the likes of Jack Robinson, Jay Spearing and Martin Kelly barely had a look in. Enter Kenny Dalglish and he's shown that they're good enough for the first team. Maybe this is down to superior management style and under pressure managers reluctant to use younger players, but it shows that a lot more are good enough if given a chance.

I'll never forget Gerard Houllier ranting about Liverpool fans wanting him to use more players from the academy like 'the good old days'. Think about how many potential Steven Gerrards they might've missed out on...

It frustrates me -in real life- when managers (in particular foreign ones) never use youth players. Take Liverpool as an example, under Benitez and Hodgson, the likes of Jack Robinson, Jay Spearing and Martin Kelly barely had a look in. Enter Kenny Dalglish and he's shown that they're good enough for the first team. Maybe this is down to superior management style and under pressure managers reluctant to use younger players, but it shows that a lot more are good enough if given a chance.

I'll never forget Gerard Houllier ranting about Liverpool fans wanting him to use more players from the academy like 'the good old days'. Think about how many potential Steven Gerrards they might've missed out on...

Although I agree with this statement entirely, I do disagree about the amount of players of Gerrard's potential have been missed out on. Steven Gerrard is one of the finest midfielders in his generation, a special player, one that is a complete package of technical and mental application that has aloud him to become a Liverpool legend. Players like him will not come along very often, but the players that fall short do become decent players - for example Jay Spearing. A decent player, but clearly limited abilities that Gerrard has now and had at Jay's age. In this day and age I find it very hard to conseve that Spearing will see out his career at Liverpool, and doesn't have the quality in my opinion to move to a bigger side such as the Real Madrids, Barcas ect ect. But when he does move on he will be a decent footballer, and that is the exception with English academys and ones around the world - most notably La Masia in Barcelona.

Instead of them producing a 'Steven Gerrard' once a generation, bad player example maybe; lets say a 'Jack Wilshere'; they are producing players of such notoriety and quality every 4/5 years. That's the difference. Jack Wilshere will be regarded, hopefully, as one of the finest players Arsenal will produce over a ten year period. But as Pep Guardiola said before Arsenal played Barca a couple of years ago, that Barca have a team full of Jack Wilshere's in their academy - and we are seeing that now.

Think I have detracted away from the OP, and somewhat away from FM but I think it's an interesting talking point.

I knew things would go downhill for England once Heskey retired.

....................

Although I agree with this statement entirely, I do disagree about the amount of players of Gerrard's potential have been missed out on. Steven Gerrard is one of the finest midfielders in his generation, a special player, one that is a complete package of technical and mental application that has aloud him to become a Liverpool legend. Players like him will not come along very often, but the players that fall short do become decent players - for example Jay Spearing. A decent player, but clearly limited abilities that Gerrard has now and had at Jay's age. In this day and age I find it very hard to conseve that Spearing will see out his career at Liverpool, and doesn't have the quality in my opinion to move to a bigger side such as the Real Madrids, Barcas ect ect. But when he does move on he will be a decent footballer, and that is the exception with English academys and ones around the world - most notably La Masia in Barcelona.

Instead of them producing a 'Steven Gerrard' once a generation, bad player example maybe; lets say a 'Jack Wilshere'; they are producing players of such notoriety and quality every 4/5 years. That's the difference. Jack Wilshere will be regarded, hopefully, as one of the finest players Arsenal will produce over a ten year period. But as Pep Guardiola said before Arsenal played Barca a couple of years ago, that Barca have a team full of Jack Wilshere's in their academy - and we are seeing that now.

Think I have detracted away from the OP, and somewhat away from FM but I think it's an interesting talking point.

i take your point, Steven Gerrard is a one in a million player so the likelihood that they potentially missed out on Gerrard duplicates is unlikely. I perhaps didnt phrase that part like I should've done, but my point was that other players could've impacted upon the first team if they were given a chance and become first team regulars/semi-regulars.

Play Walcott instead of whinging. He's obviously decent.