A great idea to revolutionise the game (Well I think so)

I was just sitting on the toilet considering starting a new game. I eventually chose not to because, ultimately, after 5 years or so, you'll probably end up with exactly the same team as the best players are always...well...the best players. Ronaldo and Messi will always be the best. Torres will always have great stats no matter what form he's in etc.

So i thought of a great idea to make the game more fun. What if players stats were more directly sensitive to their form, so they're stats fluctuated according to their performance in the last 5-10 games. Obviously the best players would have the best base starting stats and the greater potential but it would mean that in current form, Demba Ba would be a far better player than Torres (and you'd certainly want to buy him more). In the current system, even if Ba smashed in 10 goals in 10 games, his stats would be still be poo, and you'd still splash out on a Torres that hasn't scored in months. It would certainly add more variety to the game. It would also make the game more fun when flying (all your players are playing great and the team's stats are improving) or when you're struggling for form (your players stats are falling and you really need to think of some tactical genius to get you out of the slump).

It would certainly put more emphasis on choosing the right system, squad rotation and keeping your players happy to get them on form. And also it's a lot more fun to be buying in form players and have their market values fluctuating depending on that. It would really make every game different and less predictable.

What do you think? I'd love to see this happen in one of the future version!

I was just sitting on the toilet considering starting a new game. I eventually chose not to because, ultimately, after 5 years or so, you'll probably end up with exactly the same team as the best players are always...well...the best players. Ronaldo and Messi will always be the best. Torres will always have great stats no matter what form he's in etc.

So i thought of a great idea to make the game more fun. What if players stats were more directly sensitive to their form, so they're stats fluctuated according to their performance in the last 5-10 games. Obviously the best players would have the best base starting stats and the greater potential but it would mean that in current form, Demba Ba would be a far better player than Torres (and you'd certainly want to buy him more). In the current system, even if Ba smashed in 10 goals in 10 games, his stats would be still be poo, and you'd still splash out on a Torres that hasn't scored in months. It would certainly add more variety to the game. It would also make the game more fun when flying (all your players are playing great and the team's stats are improving) or when you're struggling for form (your players stats are falling and you really need to think of some tactical genius to get you out of the slump).

It would certainly put more emphasis on choosing the right system, squad rotation and keeping your players happy to get them on form. And also it's a lot more fun to be buying in form players and have their market values fluctuating depending on that. It would really make every game different and less predictable.

What do you think? I'd love to see this happen in one of the future version!

i think that would make the game to hard on the one hand (when youre losing all the time) and too easy on the other (when youre on a winning streak).

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/293900-Dynamic-player-attributes-based-on-form.

Similar thread from last week.

I understand your point and I think it's important to get the right compromise.

I'm not suggesting you'll end up with a Wolves squad with stats like Man City's. Every player has certain potential and can only reach a certain height and so that would be restricted.

But form is so important in football today that it can't be ignored. A chelsea team on form could walk the league, whereas one off form is currently fighting for 4th place. I really think it needs looking at.

It'll also make transfers a hell of a lot more fun. You'll need to take the right gambles, and really hope that a player settles into to your squad and tactics otherwise you could end up with an expensive flop or if you're lucky an absolute masterstroke!

Oh sorry if there's a similar thread! I admittedly didn't check, I just signed up and posted. Apologies.

Oh sorry if there's a similar thread! I admittedly didn't check, I just signed up and posted. Apologies.

Similar, but not quite the same. Worth a read for the opinions, etc. Had plenty of interest.

I don't know how you can go from having 20 pace to having 17 pace. Or 10 acceleration to 15, simply based on form?

The stats show what they are good at and what level they are at. And training causes these to go up and down. Or lack of game time + lack of training through injury could slow someone down in their stats, but they could go back up again.

The players stats are not really affected by form though. It's more due to morale, and their match performance is affected due to the morale of the player and the morale of the team.

Their match performance suffers. It's like they lose confidence, so they won't take on a long ball, or scuff up more passes, or not attempt to break down the wing because their morale is low. Perhaps the goalkeepers handling would be less effective with poor morale.

But I see no reason to introduce dynamic stats.

Before a game the morale of my team was quite low. I directed a team talk option directly at the captain and said "I know you can make a difference" he was happy. He spurred on the other players and by half time I was winning 2-0 and the players were all happy again. I went on to win 5-2.

That was on the back of a few losses.

So players are already affected by bad morale. And their match performance suffers. And it's up to the manager to bring them out of the slump by spurring them on, or being agressive and giving out when they lost a game they should have easily won.

Fair enough.

Obviously different attributes are more dynamic than others. Fitness attributes will be the least dynamic with technical the most. Which stats are more dynamic is certainly up for discussion and if anybody suggests it's too complicated to do then I don't think you're giving the game programmers enough credit. I'd imagine it'd be quite easy for them.

I understand your point Eugene, (sorry I don't know how to quote and there's no point learning for a day really), but it's just no fun to base a player on one morale rating. I speak for myself (and probably a lot of players) when I say that if I have an off form Messi, I'll just carry on playing him as his stats are still the best. Now if his stats started declining, well that would make me sit up and take notice and certainly do something about it. I could decide to drop him, I could speak to the media or I might not risk doing anything. If it works...brilliant, an on form messi again. If not, he might request transfer and I'll need a replacement. It just sounds a lot more fun and realistic to me.

Just to add to that, I'm by no means suggesting that Messi's stats will fall so drastically that he becomes an average player. Just enough to see a significant difference in the player he was before. Using the Demba Ba and Torres example (as it's so useful), Torres' base finishing could start at 17 with a potential of 14-19. His first touch 17 with potential 14-18. You can imagine the rest. Now on form Torres would have finishing 19 and first touch 18; a dam good player. Whereas an off form Torres could have 14 and 14. Time to sit up and take notice.

On the other hand, Ba wouldn't end up with all 20's. He'd have his own limits (as would all players) and an on form Torres would be better than an on form Ba. I just think it's fair than an on form Ba is clearly better than an off form Torres.

And just to add to my Torres point. His stats wouldn't change THAT drastically over 5-10 games as suggested earlier. I'd think changes that drastic would occur gradually over 20+ so similar to his current form.

Wouldn't it end up as a vicious cycle?

Lower attributes because of poor form; even poorer form because of subsequent lower attributes. How does a player get out of that? Is it just down to luck?

I don't see how their stats would change based on their current form.

Their current Form and Morale already dictate this, and they'll be more or less accurate already depending on their form and morale.

ultimately, after 5 years or so, you'll probably end up with exactly the same team as the best players are always...well...the best players.

This what you said at the start.

I recommend you do a stint in Brazil taking a tier 3 team to the top of Brazil. It will about 10 seasons before you reach the top. Even then it would be difficult to get a top job in Europe. You can stay in Brazil for another 5 years, get a job in France managing a mid-level team. Then eventually move on to the bigger teams.

But in 20 - 25 seasons, all the big names are gone and there's more dynamic. You've also worked your way up from the bottom and will have a lot of respect as a manager.

It will be still easy. But you won't recognize most players. The dynamics will have changed slightly, and you'll have a lot of fun.

Player management. Tactical changes. Speaking to the media. Luck. Anything. But you'll need to do something when things go tits up.

A player will also have a limit. His stats won't go down forever.

Ha thanks Eugene. I'm the first to admit that I'm the sort of FM player that is probably frowned upon on this board. I wouldn't do that. I don't have the time and if I did, I wouldn't have the patience. Yes I may be a rubbish FM player but I can't help but feel that 75% of FM players are exactly the same as me (they probably don't post on this board).

I suppose the MORALE system is something that relates to form.

I think stat boosts could be accounted for, not in a solid boost way. Maybe a * next to a stat would mean he's performing above his usual level due to superb form.

Maybe we need a confidence stat, a balancing act of keeping it below maximum but above average for best performances. Some personalities would thrive under the highest levels of confidence though. Confidence stat could slightly upscale mental stats.

Even though it's interesting it just makes it more complicated. If there was a simple, balanced way of doing dynamic stats I'd love for it to be implemented.

This would be a bad idea in my opinion. It is way too easy to get any half decent striker to score nearly a goal a game which would give us a big advantage over the AI. A player like Sow who under AI control would score 20 goals in 40 games over the season can under our control score 38 in 40, so you would want his attributes to go even higher based on his form which would make him score even more goals?

@HHUK - I like your thinking. But Ba with a star next to his name wouldn't be enough to make me buy him over Torres. Maybe that's just me though?

@AcidBurn - As I've said. Players have potential limits. Sow would have a limit and would never reach the heights of Ronaldo even when on form. But if you can keep him happy, playing in the right system with the right players, then why the hell can't he go on to score 38 in 40?

Actually ignore this. It's missing the bigger picture. Will just confuse things.

To be honest I think the system in place is kind of similar to what you are suggesting but only needs slight tweaking to make it work.

The current CA/PA system that is already in place just need tweaking. Every player starts the game with their CA and through game time, training and by keeping them happy they can move closer to there PA.

The new system would be BR/CA/PA and more sensitive to changes. Technical Attributes should be more sensitive than Physical Attributes which would be more sensitive than Mental Attributes.

So if your striker is going through an amazing run of form his finishing attribute should increase from his finishing starting rating (BR) towards its full potential (PA) but then he gets an injury or a suspension and then can't hit a barn door with a buzuka his finishing would then start to fall back to his base rate (BR), at any given time you ask for a scout report or a coach report it will report on his current ability (CA) and his (PA)

If we take Andy Carroll has an example at the start of last season when he was at Newcastle (I havent got the exact figures at hand) lets say his finishing was 14 (BR) he started scoring regular and the effects of his moral increasing, the training he was getting and his form his finishing started raising to its full potential (PA) lets say 17, so Liverpool scouted him and his finishing was 16 (CA), Liverpool bought him and has we know he has struggled for goals, maybe because of the different styles of play, but because of all that his finishing is now falling back to his base rate, lets say its now 15, if his run continues it will fall back to 14, with Suarez out and he starts scoring in could rise back to 16 or further 17 but never above 17 or below 14.

I know finishing isn't the be all and end all for scoring goals but I just used it has an example.

@HHUK - I like your thinking. But Ba with a star next to his name wouldn't be enough to make me buy him over Torres. Maybe that's just me though?

@AcidBurn - As I've said. Players have potential limits. Sow would have a limit and would never reach the heights of Ronaldo even when on form. But if you can keep him happy, playing in the right system with the right players, then why the hell can't he go on to score 38 in 40?

He already scores 38 in 40.

To be honest I think the system in place is kind of similar to what you are suggesting but only needs slight tweaking to make it work.

The current CA/PA system that is already in place just need tweaking. Every player starts the game with their CA and through game time, training and by keeping them happy they can move closer to there PA.

The new system would be BR/CA/PA and more sensitive to changes. Technical Attributes should be more sensitive than Physical Attributes which would be more sensitive than Mental Attributes.

So if your striker is going through an amazing run of form his finishing attribute should increase from his finishing starting rating (BR) towards its full potential (PA) but then he gets an injury or a suspension and then can't hit a barn door with a buzuka his finishing would then start to fall back to his base rate (BR), at any given time you ask for a scout report or a coach report it will report on his current ability (CA) and his (PA)

If we take Andy Carroll has an example at the start of last season when he was at Newcastle (I havent got the exact figures at hand) lets say his finishing was 14 (BR) he started scoring regular and the effects of his moral increasing, the training he was getting and his form his finishing started raising to its full potential (PA) lets say 17, so Liverpool scouted him and his finishing was 16 (CA), Liverpool bought him and has we know he has struggled for goals, maybe because of the different styles of play, but because of all that his finishing is now falling back to his base rate, lets say its now 15, if his run continues it will fall back to 14, with Suarez out and he starts scoring in could rise back to 16 or further 17 but never above 17 or below 14.

I know finishing isn't the be all and end all for scoring goals but I just used it has an example.

I worked out how to quote. Wasn't too difficult!

Anyways presto! That's basically it. I just think making players stats more sensitive to change and with a larger range than currently is the way forward.

The transfer market would benefit aswell. I'd love to see players values fluctuate more on form. It would also create bigger decisions. Yes you could sign that in form Carrol but (as you said) if he doesn't fit in...his stats go way back down and he'll lose value. Flop.

Also, should you sell Modric now his stats are higher and his value is huge? or are you confident that he'll stay on form?

Won't be as simple as buying and selling on/off form players, your system is also very important.

He already scores 38 in 40.

Ok so my point is: he has a limit to how great his stats can be (depending on what SI deem correct). An on-form player will reach his peak and with the right management - he will stay there. He won't just keep getting better and better.

But IF (and that should be a challenging if) you can keep Sow happy, playing in the right system and avoid him wanting to move elsewhere, then it should be more than possible to have him scoring 38 goals in consecutive seasons.

This should be in the game to an extent.

Certain metal attributes and technical attributes should be down to morale and form imho. lets use composure as an example. Not sure of Torres stats off hand but an on form Torres would have composure in or around max, while a Torres who hasn't scored in 8 games wouldn't be quite as composed on the ball or in front of goal.

Not sure of his CA or PA but I'd imagine his PA is about 180+ and CA currently in the 160's somewhere. What a player should have imho is a "Top CA, a Abysmal CA" and the regular PA. So while PA is achieved via the same methods as before the player can fluctuate within reason. With an average rating of 7.5+ the player would be in Top CA, 6 of less Abymsal CA and everything in between. Than depending on position certain attribs would change because of this. An on-song top CA Torres who had peaked would have CA 180 or whatever his PA is. Than he would have 19 composure, 20 finishing etc.. cause his Average Rating puts him in Top CA bracket, where as a goaless Torres CA would drop to maybe 170 but only certain stats would be affected, Composure would drop to 12, decision would drop as would concentration by a few points. Finishing and ball control etc.. would slightly drop but much less, maybe 1 point. His physical stats wouldn't change as its the mental side of his game thats wrecked.

Kind of like a mental fitness level that comes from a combination, of his base mental stats, his form, his hiddens attributes and his morale.

This what I do not understand he already does what you are saying with his current attributes he got 38 in 39, 42 in 50 and 47 in 50. Under your system the season after he got 38 goals his attributes would rise meaning he would have even better attributes so instead of scoring 42 goals he could get 60?

I think most of this is covered by morale. A striker with high morale will score more and play better than a striker with poor morale.

This what I do not understand he already does what you are saying with his current attributes he got 38 in 39, 42 in 50 and 47 in 50. Under your system the season after he got 38 goals his attributes would rise meaning he would have even better attributes so instead of scoring 42 goals he could get 60?

Oh, you didn't make that especially clear. Ok so after (and during) that first great season, his stats would be at an all time high (set by SI, which should be more generous than in the current system). If you've managed him correctly, which you obviously have done, then he'll go on to score 42 in his next season (as he did) and his stats will stay at that all time high. His stats will stay at their peak for as long as you're getting the best out of him.

The world 'could' is a bit dodgy when talking about FM as anything 'could' happen. I once had Ronaldo on-form and he scored 74 goals in 53 games. So yes it 'could' happen. But will it? Probably not.

This what I do not understand he already does what you are saying with his current attributes he got 38 in 39, 42 in 50 and 47 in 50. Under your system the season after he got 38 goals his attributes would rise meaning he would have even better attributes so instead of scoring 42 goals he could get 60?

In off season stats would decrease through the lack of training, game time etc. So depending on age will determine how much of a drop. If he is playing in an international competiton over the off-season then his attributes wont drop has much.

Players like messi and ronaldo are near enough already at they full PA so they would improve say their base rate would be 192 their potential is 195 then thats the limit range if having a excellent season means he finishes at 194 during off-season he could fall down to 193 or 192. With players that have a bigger gap between what their base rate would be then the bigger chance of a player flopping when you sign him. The younger the player is the less attribute drop during off-season generally like now players past their peak fall quicker and further.

So you would see in the case of my player his finishing and composure rise during the season if he is playing well?

So you would see in the case of my player his finishing and composure rise during the season if he is playing well?

Not if he was already at his peak.

We are also forgetting hidden mental attributes that contribute significantly towards the ability/performance of a player. And just because a player has x for an attribute does not mean they can always play to that attribute, I just see that as there maximum potential when they are playing at their absolute best.

Don't forget form is temporary... Class is permanent!!! Had to say that!!!! :o:D

So you would see in the case of my player his finishing and composure rise during the season if he is playing well?

I'm not sure whether that's directed to me or The Welsh Lad but we seem to agree anyways.

Yep, but only to his upper limit. It's then your job to keep him there, which it sounds like you have done (and the beauty of it is that it's easier to keep an on form player on form, than get an off form player playing well - as his stats are better!)

If Sow's playing as well as you say, that consistently, then his stats should reflect that he is currently one of the best strikers in the world, which I doubt they do on the current game. Although no matter how many goals he bangs in, he'd never reach all 20's as there's limits.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I think these fluctuations in attributes are already sort of accounted for with morale. A young player who has not reached their full potential will already see increases in attributes from playing well. Like I said we can already get a half decent striker to score loads of goals by keeping their morale high and using them correctly. If they were to have their attributes raised then they would score even more goals.

I may not be putting it across clear enough. The Sow example would see him have higher attributes than he currently does giving him the ability to score more goals than he already has? If his current attributes saw him score 42 in his second season then with your raised attribute system he would surely score 50+ due to better finishing.

We are also forgetting hidden mental attributes that contribute significantly towards the ability/performance of a player. And just because a player has x for an attribute does not mean they can always play to that attribute, I just see that as there maximum potential when they are playing at their absolute best.

Don't forget form is temporary... Class is permanent!!! Had to say that!!!! :o:D

Obviously hidden attributes play a part the better the hidden attributes that don'y require CA points the more likely the play can retain his current form, If this system is to be introduced then things like this need to be ironed out. Stephan Ireland was playing well at Man City came to Villa and hasn't reached the same heights due to his hidden mental attributes.

We just got rid of this form-thing through the 12.1.1 patch. It would make the game even more streaky than it was when Superb morale was so easy to achieve and maintain. I wouldn't want that back.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I think these fluctuations in attributes are already sort of accounted for with morale. A young player who has not reached their full potential will already see increases in attributes from playing well. Like I said we can already get a half decent striker to score loads of goals by keeping their morale high and using them correctly. If they were to have their attributes raised then they would score even more goals.

I may not be putting it across clear enough. The Sow example would see him have higher attributes than he currently does giving him the ability to score more goals than he already has? If his current attributes saw him score 42 in his second season then with your raised attribute system he would surely score 50+ due to better finishing.

Ok I think I get you. I think the stats fluctuations would replace the morale status rather than compliment it. Their morale would be reflected in their stats if that makes sense.

EDIT: Actually in hindsight, getting rid of morale entirely is silly. That would mean after a big event (i.e. Tevez at Bayern Munich), his morale would have dropped hugely, which in my system mean his stats would follow suit sharply. I admit I didn't think it through. It would most probably be better just to have morale less influential on a players performances and somewhat influential on their stats changes.

We just got rid of this form-thing through the 12.1.1 patch. It would make the game even more streaky than it was when Superb morale was so easy to achieve and maintain. I wouldn't want that back.

Already with the new moral system in place people are finding it hard to stay on winning streaks. Every player is not going to have the possibility to reach 20 in key attributes. Your average player has at the moment a CA of about 150 with a potential to reach about 165, with the new system said player would only reach 165 like the same now. When starting a new game the players CA will still be 150 but if you get the best out of him by the end of the season the player could reach 155 say, during off-season the play could fall back down to 150 and you start again, if the player has the right hidden mental attributes, the right visible attributes he might only drop down 1 or 2 notches so each season he is getting closer to his full potential. Depending on age like it does now will also play a part in how the play maintains their form and overall their ability not everyone is a Ryan Giggs.

SI have got the moral system right now in my eyes anyway, that hasn't got to be changed. What has to be changed is the level of impact it has on player attributes. This will have a knock on effect to player reputations. Because the increase in attributes will increase reputations that will increase value that will make lower league more money. How many time have we seen Lower League managers say their top goal scorer isn't getting any interest because reputation isn't improving and the AI works on reputation, the same has International selection through the AI I've seen people come on here saying players that haven't played all season are getting picked before their top performing players because again the reputation factor.

This system will take a while to implement and shouldn't be rushed to make sure it work the way it should. The game should work like it does now, with the level of training facilities, the standard of football being played, the moral of the player, the form of the player.

You can keep players happy when being bottom of the league but form is a different thing. A regen could have the potential to be a 180 player but he is from Albania he might be playing outstanding for club and country but because of the standard of football and the level of training facilities his increasing stats through form would be smaller then a regen playing at Man Utd for club and country.

All this happens now. All we are asking is for the effect of form to have a bigger say not the only say.

We just got rid of this form-thing through the 12.1.1 patch. It would make the game even more streaky than it was when Superb morale was so easy to achieve and maintain. I wouldn't want that back.

In my ideal game, 'superb' moral wouldn't be as influential on each individual performance but rather on their more long term form. It would also be more challenging to get a player on form than it is currently to have superb morale.

EDIT (again): Ok I reread that again, this is all starting to sound over complicated and not make sense. Apologies.

In simple terms, as said above, I just wish current form had more effect on how players are portrayed in the game. I just want Ba to currently (maybe temporarily) have better stats than Torres even if he isn't the naturally better player and may not be next year. I want Ba to have a value and reputation that reflects his current form so I can make the decision on whether to buy an on-form Ba for £20 million or an off-form Torres for £20 million. It'd be my decision on what risk to take and would certainly mix it up more. In the current system it'd be Torres all day long which isn't very realistic imo.

I understand all these 'hidden' attributes that have been mentioned but to a player like myself who doesn't play THAT often (probably like most buyers of the game), we don't really understand them or even know they exist (I didn't know before today).

I know that's no excuse, and people will say that's my fault, but I just think SI need to reflect form in a more clear and definitive way to the first time manager.

Already with the new moral system in place people are finding it hard to stay on winning streaks. Every player is not going to have the possibility to reach 20 in key attributes. Your average player has at the moment a CA of about 150 with a potential to reach about 165, with the new system said player would only reach 165 like the same now. When starting a new game the players CA will still be 150 but if you get the best out of him by the end of the season the player could reach 155 say, during off-season the play could fall back down to 150 and you start again, if the player has the right hidden mental attributes, the right visible attributes he might only drop down 1 or 2 notches so each season he is getting closer to his full potential. Depending on age like it does now will also play a part in how the play maintains their form and overall their ability not everyone is a Ryan Giggs.

SI have got the moral system right now in my eyes anyway, that hasn't got to be changed. What has to be changed is the level of impact it has on player attributes. This will have a knock on effect to player reputations. Because the increase in attributes will increase reputations that will increase value that will make lower league more money. How many time have we seen Lower League managers say their top goal scorer isn't getting any interest because reputation isn't improving and the AI works on reputation, the same has International selection through the AI I've seen people come on here saying players that haven't played all season are getting picked before their top performing players because again the reputation factor.

This system will take a while to implement and shouldn't be rushed to make sure it work the way it should. The game should work like it does now, with the level of training facilities, the standard of football being played, the moral of the player, the form of the player.

You can keep players happy when being bottom of the league but form is a different thing. A regen could have the potential to be a 180 player but he is from Albania he might be playing outstanding for club and country but because of the standard of football and the level of training facilities his increasing stats through form would be smaller then a regen playing at Man Utd for club and country.

All this happens now. All we are asking is for the effect of form to have a bigger say not the only say.

Yeah I completely agree that the Reputation system is in need of replacement or at least improvement. I don't know if dynamic attributes is the answer. SI has definitely increased the importance of form to the AI, but they should reduce the importance of the static reputation as well in my opinion.

Form is already a factor in the ME, and players train better (and thus, their attributes improve) when they are in form.

What I would like is something that has been implemented in FMH for iOS, where player attributes are distorted by form. That would make Sow appear to be, say, 2 points better across the board when in form, but in fact his attributes haven't changed much, he just appears to be a significantly better player.

Surprised it hasn't been mention already, form is temporary but class is permanent.

Just because a player is struggling with their current team, manager, formation or any combination of this I don't think you should see any dramatic increases/decreases in attributes. There might be an argument for a player taking a hit on their mental attributes if they are already weak in this area but to see a decrease in their raw footballing ability would not IMHO be a realistic way forward for the game.

I was just sitting on the toilet

Where real men do their thinking

I was just sitting on the toilet

Thats where I think that idea should go

But, isn't this what happens between each iteration of FM, as researchers tweak players' abilities according to their current form? When players perform poorly in real life, their CA/PA doesn't stay constant because "class is permanent"; it's tweaked so that their in-game performance reflects that in real life. Football has a lot of flash-in-the-pan one season wonders. Going by the "form/class" logic, Michael Ricketts should still be rated as a leading Premier League striker because of that one season with Bolton.

I think players' ability should fluctuate a lot more than it does in FM. There are very few players in real life who can keep up the same high level of performances throughout their career, but in FM, it seems that once you reach a reasonable level of CA, it will never drop until the player gets old or gets a long-term injury. It's especially unrealistic when players who have spent the previous 3 years in reserves do not take a visible drop in attributes. Meanwhile in real life you have players like the above mentioned Ricketts, or Francis Jeffers, David Bentley, Chris Kirkland, to name a few, who had a bright one season or more, but then faded away badly, never to recapture their previous form.

We will just have to agree to disagree, I think these fluctuations in attributes are already sort of accounted for with morale. A young player who has not reached their full potential will already see increases in attributes from playing well. Like I said we can already get a half decent striker to score loads of goals by keeping their morale high and using them correctly. If they were to have their attributes raised then they would score even more goals.

I may not be putting it across clear enough. The Sow example would see him have higher attributes than he currently does giving him the ability to score more goals than he already has? If his current attributes saw him score 42 in his second season then with your raised attribute system he would surely score 50+ due to better finishing.

That's the problem with baseing attribute increases on Form as defined by match ratings. But what if you broke that link? what if instead of match performances it used a number of variables to calculate a players form?

IRL hot streaks don't last forever and they don't always end with a injury or falling out with management. Players just return to their normal level of performance. Just as if they were tossing a coin it possible to get heads ten times in a row but it increasingly less likely that the next throw will be heads. (I know each throw is still 50/50) what if a player's form was governed by four things: their morale, the quality of their last performance, their consistency and a tendency to revert to the mean. when a player went on a run of form and started getting attribute increases it would become increasingly unlikely that it would be maintained, at some point they would get the run of tails that would make their attributes return to normal.

@ endtimne

The players you mentioned all prove that form is temporary. None of them had what it takes to be a top player, in the case of Bentley & Kirkland I believe they had all the technical ability to be very good players but are both lacking the mental strength needed to succeed at the very top level. As for Ricketts one good season = form, nothing since = not class & the fix in the box was a false dawn.

For me the key problems are that negative mental traits in FM do not have enough effect on a players long term performances or that players with weak or questionable mental attributes can be compensated for too easily & then there is the problem of the current research which imo over-rates players mental strength with the main problem nation being England.

For whatever reason many of the English players in FM appear to be significantly stronger from a psychobiology standpoint that their real world counterparts, it's part of the reason why the English (and other UK) national teams do so well in FM, the players do not crumble under pressure anywhere near as often as they would in real life.

As if to prove my point the Euro 2016 final will be contested by Wales & England, Wales reached the final with 2 penalty shoot-outs plus an extra-time win & England have battered every team (16:6 shot ratio) on the way to the final.

Surprised it hasn't been mention already, form is temporary but class is permanent.

See post thirty my friend!

Missed that one, didn't mean to try & steal your thunder.

i think that would make the game to hard on the one hand (when youre losing all the time) and too easy on the other (when youre on a winning streak).

In my humble opinion, your post has just described real football management to a tee.

Team flying high - just can't seem to do anything wrong.

Team really struggling - just can't seem to do anything right.

Missed that one, didn't mean to try & steal your thunder.

I was only messing Barside! Great minds think alike!!!

I think this is reflected a bit with the morale...