I'm getting frustrated with this game....

It's just so difficult.

The Scene :

I'm knockbreda, of N. Ireland, and have won the title the last 16 years in a row. I win all the domestic cups, and have amassed 41 Cups and 17 league titles in my 20 year stint. An average of 3 Trophies a season.

The Problem :

all my player want to leave to "win trophies" they don't think they can achieve with me. WTF.

A lot of my players want to leave to play for bigger clubs, and as the years progress, my scouts find less and less players that are willing to play for my club.

I currently have a shortage of strikers, and the best that 5 scouts can come up with between them, is a 32 year old 2* rated player. Even in the player search screen, the highest valued player interested in me is worth £8,000.

When I do get a good player, It usually only takes them about 6 months before they want to leave for a bigger club, or because they don't feel they can win anything with Knockbreda. Nobody will pay more than £500,000 for my players generally, which is a bargain, even if they are only valued at £90,000.

What gets me the most though, is the fact that, my players mainly leave for clubs like Crystal Palace and Sheffield Utd. I play Champs League or UEFA Cup football year in, year out, and they leave for these clubs.

And its all down to League Reputation. Whats the point of playing in these leagues, when I really cant progress further than domestic dominance. Really, I've lost 4 league games in 14 seasons. My current leage streak is 180 games unbeaten. And all three of my cup runs are into the 100's too.

I've tried to persevere with this, but at the end of my last season, I lost 12 players to free transfers. 7 of which were 1st teamers, and the others were back up, but got regular football. I'm now left with a plethora of worthless players, and no-one outside of 3*** wants to play for me.

I think it's time to revert back to FM06 for me. I loved that game. FM08 is getting the better of my patience.

It's just so difficult.

The Scene :

I'm knockbreda, of N. Ireland, and have won the title the last 16 years in a row. I win all the domestic cups, and have amassed 41 Cups and 17 league titles in my 20 year stint. An average of 3 Trophies a season.

The Problem :

all my player want to leave to "win trophies" they don't think they can achieve with me. WTF.

A lot of my players want to leave to play for bigger clubs, and as the years progress, my scouts find less and less players that are willing to play for my club.

I currently have a shortage of strikers, and the best that 5 scouts can come up with between them, is a 32 year old 2* rated player. Even in the player search screen, the highest valued player interested in me is worth £8,000.

When I do get a good player, It usually only takes them about 6 months before they want to leave for a bigger club, or because they don't feel they can win anything with Knockbreda. Nobody will pay more than £500,000 for my players generally, which is a bargain, even if they are only valued at £90,000.

What gets me the most though, is the fact that, my players mainly leave for clubs like Crystal Palace and Sheffield Utd. I play Champs League or UEFA Cup football year in, year out, and they leave for these clubs.

And its all down to League Reputation. Whats the point of playing in these leagues, when I really cant progress further than domestic dominance. Really, I've lost 4 league games in 14 seasons. My current leage streak is 180 games unbeaten. And all three of my cup runs are into the 100's too.

I've tried to persevere with this, but at the end of my last season, I lost 12 players to free transfers. 7 of which were 1st teamers, and the others were back up, but got regular football. I'm now left with a plethora of worthless players, and no-one outside of 3*** wants to play for me.

I think it's time to revert back to FM06 for me. I loved that game. FM08 is getting the better of my patience.

I totally agree with this.

Because legue rep doesn't change throughout the game, you could theoretically win the champions league every year and the league would never get noticed worldwide.

I was Cwmbran in Wales for ages and couldn't progress past the group stages of the champs league because I couldn't attract the right players to the league rather than the team.

I hope this gets changed in FM09 because if a team from Wales/N.Ireland, even Luxembourg plays well year in year out in europe, they would be well know and there would be a bigger following for their respective league, wider TV coverage and therefore a better players playing in that league. This should also happen the other way round, a country should lose reputation if their football falls into decline.

I can appreciate the effort you have invest in the game since I do only play for longterm games.

The biggest "beef" I have againts FM08 is the regen system. Once you advance further and further it just becomes apparent that the "regen system" is not working.

I just loaded up my career last night and this doesn't encourage it too much.

I just wish this are of the game receives A LOT of attention from now on! I can understand that serie realese for FM08 is yearly so that propably is the main reason why this have actually never being fixed.

This will be last FM for me until this issue you described is actually improved significantly.

Sad to hear this story allthough hat off to you for playing many seasons in the Northern Ireland league!

In order for the rep to change would the nation not have to do well, as opposed to the individual club?

This is all reality....you're playing in N.Ireland so it's perfectly acceptable for your players to want to move on and winning the N.Ireland league and cups is probably ranked extremely low on the radar of things to win in the whole FM world....personally I enjoy adding several leagues and trying to lead a smaller team to greatness...if you get bored with the N.Ireland team, just jump ship to another league.

There's an inbuilt anti-bias towards celts...it's deliberate, after all the lads producing the game are english.....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

In order for the rep to change would the nation not have to do well, as opposed to the individual club?

This is all reality....you're playing in N.Ireland so it's perfectly acceptable for your players to want to move on and winning the N.Ireland league and cups is probably ranked extremely low on the radar of things to win in the whole FM world....personally I enjoy adding several leagues and trying to lead a smaller team to greatness...if you get bored with the N.Ireland team, just jump ship to another league. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, all the reps are combined, I understand that, but after 20 years, and the fact that I do get CL football, and my Manager Description is "Legendary Manager" surely that would have a big effect on players wanting to play for me?

Even young players, as a stepping stone, refuse to use my club, although it would be a great platform for them.

IRL, If a team from N. Ireland got to the CL Group stages, it would do wonders for the league, and the impact on such a small nation would be cataclysmic. Let alone doing it several times.

My only real example is CSKA Moscow. They got regular CL football, and now the team is flooded with amazing players. In turn, the league is becoming more recognized globally....

That's Russia though, I'd say much lower than N.Ireland....I dunno, I'm sure in previous games you used to be able to look at your nations world ranking and nation points...I'm pretty sure the nations ranking effected how many points your country gained through European / international club competition, therefor increasing your rep...

I can't think of one example in reality where a country the same size as N,Ireland has improved dramatically enough to attract top quality players.

Seems like it could be an improvement needed for the next FM game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

That's Russia though, I'd say much lower than N.Ireland.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry....higher....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

It's just so difficult.

The Scene :

I'm knockbreda, of N. Ireland, and have won the title the last 16 years in a row. I win all the domestic cups, and have amassed 41 Cups and 17 league titles in my 20 year stint. An average of 3 Trophies a season.

The Problem :

all my player want to leave to "win trophies" they don't think they can achieve with me. WTF.

A lot of my players want to leave to play for bigger clubs, and as the years progress, my scouts find less and less players that are willing to play for my club.

I currently have a shortage of strikers, and the best that 5 scouts can come up with between them, is a 32 year old 2* rated player. Even in the player search screen, the highest valued player interested in me is worth £8,000.

When I do get a good player, It usually only takes them about 6 months before they want to leave for a bigger club, or because they don't feel they can win anything with Knockbreda. Nobody will pay more than £500,000 for my players generally, which is a bargain, even if they are only valued at £90,000.

What gets me the most though, is the fact that, my players mainly leave for clubs like Crystal Palace and Sheffield Utd. I play Champs League or UEFA Cup football year in, year out, and they leave for these clubs.

And its all down to League Reputation. Whats the point of playing in these leagues, when I really cant progress further than domestic dominance. Really, I've lost 4 league games in 14 seasons. My current leage streak is 180 games unbeaten. And all three of my cup runs are into the 100's too.

I've tried to persevere with this, but at the end of my last season, I lost 12 players to free transfers. 7 of which were 1st teamers, and the others were back up, but got regular football. I'm now left with a plethora of worthless players, and no-one outside of 3*** wants to play for me.

I think it's time to revert back to FM06 for me. I loved that game. FM08 is getting the better of my patience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realise it doesn't help you here, but having suffered from this when I play a Scottish Premier League game, I now usually set the league competitions reputation to be higher. It's not ideal though - far from it.

What I also hate about the current reputation system is how it affects the players in your team. After a while, many of the average players have very high reputations meaning that you cannot offload them as easily. I have to use FMM to reduce the reputations of my players just to sell them. This seems crazy. When you've played the game for a number of years, it's amazing how many things you end up doing as workarounds because you know the flaws in the game. Hopefully one day this will be addressed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

That's Russia though, I'd say much lower than N.Ireland....I dunno, I'm sure in previous games you used to be able to look at your nations world ranking and nation points...I'm pretty sure the nations ranking effected how many points your country gained through European / international club competition, therefor increasing your rep...

I can't think of one example in reality where a country the same size as N,Ireland has improved dramatically enough to attract top quality players.

Seems like it could be an improvement needed for the next FM game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You cant see it, because you're not looking IMO. It does happen, but it doesn't happen instantly. Celtic and Rangers are a prime example. They wanted to change divisions because its taking so long, but since that, they now seem content, because teams like Hearts and Aberdeen are getting closer to the Old Firm, and making the league a lot more enjoyable. You just have to look at the type of players that are beginning to join the league, and even some that have been there before.

(Flo, Gattuso, Wright, Sutton, Arteta)

All good-great players.

I was under the impression that, as my team rep grew, other teams would strive to match me. But in 13 seasons I've been a Pro team, not one other team in the division has matched this ambition, and they are all Semi-Pro still.

The ONLY thing I can ever do to change this manually, is (when the situation arises, as I'm sure it would given enough time) that when my finances are so strong, I simply buy the players from the other teams reserves for massively inflated prices, so that they hit £5,000,00 in profit and turn pro. In turn, this would allow them the option of better players, and perhaps increase the overall rep of the league?

I'd be like a private investor. Its a sad thing to have to do to enjoy the game in minor leagues.

Well the problem mentioned here has a simple fix:

Allow for the change of league reputation.

There is currently no reason for this stat to remain fixed. Leagues certainly don't remain fixed in strength.

Would anyone currently doubt that Spain, England and Italy are the strongest leagues in the world? Certain leagues like the French and German league would once have been strong as well, but currently wouldn't be_as_strong, not saying they're weak, just not as strong.

If, for example, a team like Lyon were to win the Champions League every year for 5 years or so (not impossible in the game ) the co-efficient for France would go up or whatever it does, giving the French more spots in European competition, giving more money and recognition. Additionally, this would strengthen the clubs getting the extra European football and money, allowing the league structure as a whole become more highly regarded, and thus, more attractive to footballers.

So... Let us change the league rep.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

I was under the impression that, as my team rep grew, other teams would strive to match me. But in 13 seasons I've been a Pro team, not one other team in the division has matched this ambition, and they are all Semi-Pro still.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they did turn professional and bought decent defenders ... it would then be more difficult for you to reach the 1000 goals (i.e. Pele challenge).

As for getting the other team to profit and professional status ... this still won't fix the reputation problem though will it? I'm afraid your only option is to change this in the editor before you start a new game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kazza:

There's an inbuilt anti-bias towards celts...it's deliberate, after all the lads producing the game are english..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, some of them are Scottish (in fact most of them I remember).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

I was under the impression that, as my team rep grew, other teams would strive to match me. But in 13 seasons I've been a Pro team, not one other team in the division has matched this ambition, and they are all Semi-Pro still.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they did turn professional and bought decent defenders ... it would then be more difficult for you to reach the 1000 goals (i.e. Pele challenge).

As for getting the other team to profit and professional status ... this still won't fix the reputation problem though will it? I'm afraid your only option is to change this in the editor before you start a new game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By the time that happens, He will be long retired.

(or at least, I hope so.!!)

I feel sorry for you as you've obviously worked hard in this career and now feel like you are hitting a brick wall.

I hate to do this, but as many people are obsessed with on these forums, it is more 'realistic' to have your situation than not. If it were more of a 'game' then by now you could and maybe should be looking at signing big name players.

Thing is, you are playing in a low reputaion league. Even playing for Palace or whoever offers a better chance to be noticed by a bigger club than if they stay in N. Ireland.

Take Rosenburg as an example. Dominated their league for years but although they had players good enough to get them noticed in the champions league, you couldn't have imagined really big name players going there could you?

Also I saw the Russian league mentioned as another example. The difference there is the amount of money being pumped into that league. Unfortunately money talks and players will be tempted by big wages.

As for lack of decent players later in games, I've seen that from the earliest Champ Man games. Remember on the Amiga in the good ol' days, needed a defender about ten years on in the game, the only worthwhile one around was an aging Ian Pearce. Great.

Glad you feel my pain too neil.!!

Having read this thread, I have to agree... allow the league rep to change! I thought it was possible for this to happen to be honest... makes sense?

For European leagues, surely league rep should just be linked to UEFA Coefficients. This would be really simply to implement I would have thought, and is fairly accurate.

I would NEVER usually condone this, but have you considered using FMM to give the Norn Irish league a boost in rep?

I know for a fact (being a Linfield fanatic) that the quality of the Carnegie Irish League has been improving for years. Teams like Dungannon Swifts, Ballymena, Newry, Distillery and especially Cliftonville have really progressed over the last couple of seasons.

If Linfield were to consistently get to the group stages of the Champions League, apart from being battered 90% of the time, the rep of Northern Ireland football would increase. Also, see the recent improvements of our national team, Berbatov recently said after playing us in a friendly that we were a good team, and we came within a 90 minutes of qualifying for the Euros.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:

I would NEVER usually condone this, but have you considered using FMM to give the Norn Irish league a boost in rep?

I know for a fact (being a Linfield fanatic) that the quality of the Carnegie Irish League has been improving for years. Teams like Dungannon Swifts, Ballymena, Newry, Distillery and especially Cliftonville have really progressed over the last couple of seasons.

If Linfield were to consistently get to the group stages of the Champions League, apart from being battered 90% of the time, the rep of Northern Ireland football would increase. Also, see the recent improvements of our national team, Berbatov recently said after playing us in a friendly that we were a good team, and we came within a 90 minutes of qualifying for the Euros. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never used such a program, and never will.

Also, It's harder to come by them on a mac. (But thats besides the point)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

In order for the rep to change would the nation not have to do well, as opposed to the individual club?

This is all reality....you're playing in N.Ireland so it's perfectly acceptable for your players to want to move on and winning the N.Ireland league and cups is probably ranked extremely low on the radar of things to win in the whole FM world....personally I enjoy adding several leagues and trying to lead a smaller team to greatness...if you get bored with the N.Ireland team, just jump ship to another league. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, all the reps are combined, I understand that, but after 20 years, and the fact that I do get CL football, and my Manager Description is "Legendary Manager" surely that would have a big effect on players wanting to play for me?

Even young players, as a stepping stone, refuse to use my club, although it would be a great platform for them.

IRL, If a team from N. Ireland got to the CL Group stages, it would do wonders for the league, and the impact on such a small nation would be cataclysmic. Let alone doing it several times.

My only real example is CSKA Moscow. They got regular CL football, and now the team is flooded with amazing players. In turn, the league is becoming more recognized globally.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

players might want to play for you.

but do they really want to play in a league that is simply not competitive enough for them? if they harbour any desire to play for their club then their going to have to play in a league that is of a high enough quality.

you wouldn't go to the malaysian league structure from english football if you wanted to improve your self as a footballer and possibly play for your country. no matter if alex ferguson was managing pahang he'd still struggle to get the top players.

i'm also trying to think if an instance in real life where a league has managed to improve its reputation.

i suppose the japanese league over the last few years has done so? although i'm not sure.

but then they still wouldn't get the top top players until they were nearing retirement.

I don't think any fan of FM wants unrealistically quick rises in league rep, but just slight rises maybe tied in with how many CL knockout round appearances your club (or other same nation clubs) is making season by season.

I think I'm correct in thinking that domestic league rep will only rise if a club from you domestic league wins either the Uefa or Champions League, You will not get league rep boosts simply by getting to the knock out rounds, which doesn't seem right imo?

There is a very interesting thread here about league reps/development ect.

It should increase with gentle nudges as you have some consistent success. You can see this sort of thing in real life with Ukraine where the top clubs can attract some real top players because they know its champions league exposure and so they can then move on to the real top leagues. Obviously it should take a very long time for you to push your league up to being one of the very best and improvement to other clubs in the league.

Umm, as others have said. It's unrealistic to expect this to change. Unless your whole leage gets better than you're simply a odd exception. I'm sure (even given your 180 games without being beaten) that you're just ana amazing manager and aren't cheating, so you're situation is entirely realistic too.

However, you can just fiddle with editors if this is really getting you down. I know, it's tough to 'cheat' in such a way, but clearly the game cannot recognise your excellence and needs to be fixed.

I had a similar problem to this.

I played as East Bengal in the Indian league. I won the domestic title 7 times in a row, the domestic cup 6 times in a row, the asian champions league 4 times and the world club championship twice. I was also reguarly attracting crowds of 45,000 for league games and even 110,000 (played in the national stadium) for asian cup games. Not to mention being the 9th ritchest club in the world!

I was constantly knocking out and beating teams with a "continental" reputation yet in my whole time I never managed to advance from a "national" reputation. Surely my continental dominance and even world success warranted a higher profile? The game didnt seem to think so and I constantly struggled to keep hold of and attract players.

It gets slightly frustrating when your getting "snubbed" by players from Uzbekistan

Just an illustration of how the reputation problem tranlates in a slightly more extreme example.

Good example there Josh.!

You've won 41 cups and 17 league titles and you thin kthe game is too difficult?

Yes, I have read the rest of your post and that was fairly "tongue in cheek", I do understand your point, but it is fairly realistic.

I have had the same in FM07 at Greenock Morton, albeit we didn't win all the trophies - players kept wanting to leave after just 6 months so I never quite managed to unseat Celtic at the top despite a really good squad. EPL clubs were constantly enquiring about my best players and making them unhappy and my other players were unhappy too because they weren't getting 1st team football.

Trouble is FM has always been about trying to be as realistic as possible, yet people (me included) always want to be able to live the dream of taking a small club up the leagues and into Europe and I think the game would lose a lot of appeal if it was just totally impossible to take a Blue Square North team to the Premiership and beyond (for example).

When you do achieve success way beyond the limits of current realism though (e.g. taking a club in a small nation to the latter stages of the Champions League) then the game isn't really able to adjust to that and determine a new "realism".

Funnily enough, since you mention FM06, it was there that I won the Champions League with Icelandic minnows Grindavik, something I never dreamed was possible, but there too my players then wanted to leave for bigger clubs or asked for idiotically high wages.

Go back to FM07.

I understand how this would be frustrating but I feel it's quite realistic. Generally a manager wouldn't stay at a club in a tiny league if they were over-achieving so much and he had a 'Legendary' status. 99% of the time the manager would, if given the chance, move to a club in one of the top leagues in the hope of realising his own ambitions.

So the club he just left would probably decline if the main driving force behind their success had been his management, and they'd then struggle to replace him with a manager of equal quality due to the low reputation of their league. And because of this it's highly unlikely that in real life a club from such league would ever make a long term impression on world football.

I can understand the argument for perhaps having small boosts in league reputation, this is a game after all and realism's only a good thing until it takes away from the enjoyment of the game. So yeah, there's room for a league reputation increase in the game. To be fair the quality of players you can attract is rediculously low. Perhaps if older players didn't decline so dramatically and were interested in finishing their career at a constantly successful club (although I can see them prefering a location such as LA or Australia over Northern Ireland) then this would go some way towards remedying part of the problem.

I do, however, feel your example is quite realistic. I doubt a league such as Northern Ireland will ever make any impact on world football in the next 50 years (apologied to anyone from Northern Ireland). There's just not enough scope for money in these leagues from TV revenue and fans to encourage the type of investment that has seen leagues such as the Russian and Japanese leagues improve in recent times. And without this investment the leagues overall are unlikely to improve any noticeable amount.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:

I would NEVER usually condone this, but have you considered using FMM to give the Norn Irish league a boost in rep?

I know for a fact (being a Linfield fanatic) that the quality of the Carnegie Irish League has been improving for years. Teams like Dungannon Swifts, Ballymena, Newry, Distillery and especially Cliftonville have really progressed over the last couple of seasons.

If Linfield were to consistently get to the group stages of the Champions League, apart from being battered 90% of the time, the rep of Northern Ireland football would increase. Also, see the recent improvements of our national team, Berbatov recently said after playing us in a friendly that we were a good team, and we came within a 90 minutes of qualifying for the Euros. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never used such a program, and never will.

Also, It's harder to come by them on a mac. (But thats besides the point) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See, this is the thing I don't understand. People go on and on about bugs or the game not mirroring real life, yet when you say "oh, this could be quite easily fixed in a save game editor", they look at you like you're a rapist or something.

I've used the editor a few times to make changes that I believe make the game more realistic - maybe not changing a player's attributes, but changing reputation or average attendance to a realistic level.

Theres nothing wrong with doing this - its not cheating, its just correcting a game that makes mistakes.

This rant isnt particulary aimed at you, btw, I just think moaning about a bug but then refusing to fix it by making a small change is a bit wierd.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oz:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:

I would NEVER usually condone this, but have you considered using FMM to give the Norn Irish league a boost in rep?

I know for a fact (being a Linfield fanatic) that the quality of the Carnegie Irish League has been improving for years. Teams like Dungannon Swifts, Ballymena, Newry, Distillery and especially Cliftonville have really progressed over the last couple of seasons.

If Linfield were to consistently get to the group stages of the Champions League, apart from being battered 90% of the time, the rep of Northern Ireland football would increase. Also, see the recent improvements of our national team, Berbatov recently said after playing us in a friendly that we were a good team, and we came within a 90 minutes of qualifying for the Euros. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never used such a program, and never will.

Also, It's harder to come by them on a mac. (But thats besides the point) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See, this is the thing I don't understand. People go on and on about bugs or the game not mirroring real life, yet when you say "oh, this could be quite easily fixed in a save game editor", they look at you like you're a rapist or something.

I've used the editor a few times to make changes that I believe make the game more realistic - maybe not changing a player's attributes, but changing reputation or average attendance to a realistic level.

Theres nothing wrong with doing this - its not cheating, its just correcting a game that makes mistakes.

This rant isnt particulary aimed at you, btw, I just think moaning about a bug but then refusing to fix it by making a small change is a bit wierd. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Using the editor, to any extent (or atleast until recommended for the Defoe Fix), or any save game editor, deemed all records for the record thread invalid. I try hard in my FM saves, and when I get records and such, I like to know I've done them honestly. I rarely complain about bugs too, so when I do have a complaint, It's a genuine complaint, but doesn't REALLY stop my enjoyment of the game, just makes me frustrated.

Cheers for your input though, I do agree with you, in principle, but I like holding legit records too much

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

I understand how this would be frustrating but I feel it's quite realistic. Generally a manager wouldn't stay at a club in a tiny league if they were over-achieving so much and he had a 'Legendary' status. 99% of the time the manager would, if given the chance, move to a club in one of the top leagues in the hope of realising his own ambitions.

So the club he just left would probably decline if the main driving force behind their success had been his management, and they'd then struggle to replace him with a manager of equal quality due to the low reputation of their league. And because of this it's highly unlikely that in real life a club from such league would ever make a long term impression on world football.

I can understand the argument for perhaps having small boosts in league reputation, this is a game after all and realism's only a good thing until it takes away from the enjoyment of the game. So yeah, there's room for a league reputation increase in the game. To be fair the quality of players you can attract is rediculously low. Perhaps if older players didn't decline so dramatically and were interested in finishing their career at a constantly successful club (although I can see them prefering a location such as LA or Australia over Northern Ireland) then this would go some way towards remedying part of the problem.

I do, however, feel your example is quite realistic. I doubt a league such as Northern Ireland will ever make any impact on world football in the next 50 years (apologied to anyone from Northern Ireland). There's just not enough scope for money in these leagues from TV revenue and fans to encourage the type of investment that has seen leagues such as the Russian and Japanese leagues improve in recent times. And without this investment the leagues overall are unlikely to improve any noticeable amount. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I like fighting my point to the death, I cant really argue with that. If I had more leagues loaded, I'm sure I would have moved on to bigger and better things as a manager.

Wow. Thats almost a "case closed" statement.

Don't it depend on how good the other teams are in your league like if at least 2 of them reached the group stages of the champions league, which means it should change over time if the other teams improve.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Although I like fighting my point to the death, I cant really argue with that. If I had more leagues loaded, I'm sure I would have moved on to bigger and better things as a manager.

Wow. Thats almost a "case closed" statement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's one of the problems you can run into when not putting a few leagues in when creating a game. I've had it happen to me in the past where I've got quite far into a game but have achieved all I can with a team and would like to move abroad but don't have any other leagues running so can't. I can't face just quitting and throwing away 20 seasons gameplay but don't really have the heart to continue either. So what do I do?

That's why I now run a few leagues from a few nations when starting each new game. I do, however, realise that this isn't possible for everyone because of PC and/or time constraints.

So this is where there may be a good case for a more rapidly rising league reputation. For those that can only play one league then it perhaps would be more fun to be able to improve that league over time and attract better and better players indefinitely.

So I suppose it depends on which way you look at it:

From a realism point of veiw I think it's pretty much spot on as it is.

But from a fun point of view there may be room for more increase in league reputations over time.

Surely if you are leaving a single club after 20 years to move to a new league the only thing you are "throwing away" of your 20 years game play is your manager stats which are important sure, but to me nowhere near worth having a much slower game with loads of leagues loaded just on the offchance I get bored 20 years down the line and want to move abroad, I just start a new game instead.

I'm one of those though who tends to be a 1-club manager. If I leave that club for whatever reason, having spent years building them up, I generally lose interest in the whole savegame pretty quickly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

Surely if you are leaving a single club after 20 years to move to a new league the only thing you are "throwing away" of your 20 years game play is your manager stats which are important sure, but to me nowhere near worth having a much slower game with loads of leagues loaded just on the offchance I get bored 20 years down the line and want to move abroad, I just start a new game instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Generally that's true but for me every game is different. So in one long term game there will be different players that I want to sign, different clubs I want to beat and different competitions I'll still want to win depending on where I'm managing.

So while I may have achived as much as I wanted with the club, there will still be things in the game world that I've been a part of for 20 seasons that I want to achieve. (Reading all that back it makes me sound quite sad, I'm not honest )

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

Surely if you are leaving a single club after 20 years to move to a new league the only thing you are "throwing away" of your 20 years game play is your manager stats which are important sure, but to me nowhere near worth having a much slower game with loads of leagues loaded just on the offchance I get bored 20 years down the line and want to move abroad, I just start a new game instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Generally that's true but for me every game is different. So in one long term game there will be different players that I want to sign, different clubs I want to beat and different competitions I'll still want to win depending on where I'm managing.

So while I may have achived as much as I wanted with the club, there will still be things in the game world that I've been a part of for 20 seasons that I want to achieve. (Reading all that back it makes me sound quite sad, I'm not honest )

Ummm, what a pity. I wanted to win CL with a welsh team, so I picked Merthyr Tydfil. In 2027 I have qualified only once for CL, and finished 4th in group stage, but I won Euro cup to werder bremen last season!!!

My team has now Continental status, and I'm able to sign any welsh player, so I don't have any problems, but of course Merthyr is playing in england, not in Wales. Also my regens are good enough, a couple have >180PA and several have >150PA

N.Ireland league won't have best players in the world for lots of next years, but having a team performing well in europe could increase a bit its status, but not beyond a certain limit since population is impotant. Of course there are exceptions: rangers and celtic have good players despite not being in a strong league, oporto had success lately in europe and rosenborg is capable of winning good teams.

I'm very interested in the progress of this thread and would like to know whether this will be implemented in FM2009 or not.

I do think the league reputation should increase slightly if, for instance, a Welsh team flukes their way to a Champions League victory. Not massively, but I think it should be recalculated on an average co-efficient rating of all the teams in that league, perhaps.

This is a big issue for me with the game, its the reason I can't/wont play a long term game in the Irish/Welsh leagues. League reputation should increase due to success, so if one club from the Welsh league does really well getting past the group stage of the UEFA cup or similar then the reputation of the league should increase (in a small way), if one team continually gets past the UEFA group stages the increase should be big, big enough so that the player can drag the stadard of the league up by sheer determination. Look at real life and the decline of the German and French leagues (gate receipts falling, wages falling, players leaving in droves, I believe the reverse should be possible in FM).

There's a lot of merit for this and I believe it should be possible for league reputation to increase given time. But it would be dependant on more than one club in that league performing well both within and outwith that particular league.

The Scottish Premier is probably one of the better examples of this, where Rangers and Celtic's reputations are far superior to that of the other sides in the league, and probably higher than that of the league itself. However, two teams who regularly compete in the Champions League and battle it out nearly every season for the league is not enough to make the league 'big' enough to compete with many of its European counterparts. The Dutch, Belgian and Portuguese leagues remain stronger than the Scottish league and that's down to the balance of power being slightly more equally spread amongst the clubs within those leagues.

Still with me? I think that YES, with the success you've had in Northern Ireland the league's reputation should increase, along with your own club's rep. But only when two or three of your fellow Northern Irish clubs are both challenging you for the title and regularly winning against you can the league be considered to be competitive and therefore expect greater stature within Europe.

Right now, despite one club's dominance, the league is still mostly regarded as being very poor, because the rest of the teams within it are terrible and given the chance to play at a European level would probably fail miserably, and no doubt can't attract anywhere near the quality of player that you can.

The long and short of it is, I wholeheartedly suggest that the ability for a league's reputation to go up and down should be put in place for FM09, but it should be dependant on more than just the sole factor of one superclub and another 9(?) mediocre ones.

IMO a league rep. increase/decrease based on success is needed quite badly

To make use of the Scottish example, Celtic have been in the last 16 of the Champions League two seasons in a row now, and were in the Uefa Cup final in 2003, Rangers were in CL last 16 in 2006(?) and are in Uefa Cup final this season, and Aberdeen were in the Uefa Cup last 32 this season aswell. All this is leading to a gradual rise in Scottish football, with bigger names coming here than have done in the past (Samaras from Man City, Venegoor of Hesselink from PSV, and Alan Hutton turned down Tottenham to play for Rangers... at least, the first time)

On top of that David Moyes (widely regarded as the best Premiership manager outside the top 4) is being linked with the Celtic job, as is David O'Leary

Also the places players are going to, a few years ago, player at Scottish clubs were leaving for the Championship, now a lot of them are leaving for the Premiership (Alan Hutton, Shaun Maloney, Stilyan Petrov. Also top Premiership teams such as Arsenal are being linked with Artur Boruc and Aiden McGeady while Real Madrid are reportedly interested in Hibernian's Steven Fletcher) showing that bigger and better teams are taking notice of the Scottish game.

Now, surely by this increase continues, say Moyes goes to Celtic, Boruc, Fletcher etc leave for big transfer fees, etc, then there will be more money, which will add to more reputable names coming to Soctland, meaning they wil be more of a force in Europe, meaning they'll make more money and have more rep so sign better players and the loop continues so that in 20/30/40 years time, the Old Firm expect CL quarter final places while Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee Utd are looking at good Uefa Cup runs should they qualify.

This would increase the rep of these teams and as a result the rep of the league, so as it could happen IRL then it clearly should be implimented in FM

In FM I'm in May 2016, and season just gone, Southend played in the CL. Pointing out that in this save I've only managed in BSN, BSS, BSP and IPL, I had no infulence on this, and IMO is pretty unrealistic, but theoretically could happen.

The same goes for league rep. increase, in reality, it's probably not going to happen, but there's no reason to suggest it's not possible, so given the right circumstances, it could.

I'm not suggesting that if Celtic or Rangers win the CL that the SPL should get 4 CL places and 3 Uefa Cup places, I'm just putting across the point that as the SPL's real life rep. is slowly on the increase, this should be represented in the game.

Just for the record I am a big believer in "the more realism the better" but IMO this is realistic, or rather wil be, if implimented properly, if it goes wrong and say the Swedish league becomes as reputable as the Premiershi[ just beacuse Malmo FF made the Group Stages of CL, then it will obvz be unrealistic and therefore problematic.

Final note - look at the rep. of the MLS before and after Beckham's arrival. Ok, it was just hype and has died down somewhat but still, it was a boost for rep.

Sorry for the long and excruciating post but I hope I got through to at least 1 person at SI and that this is one of the many changes in FM09 that will make it the best in the serie so far