Club Reputation (Completely flawed design)

This thread is going to be a bit of a moan but I think justifiably so.

Essentially my problem is that my club reputation no matter how successful I am doesn't seem to rise at all.

Context; I'm current managing Ujpest FC in Hungary and I've essentially instigated something of a revolution at the club. I'm 5 seasons in and we have just won our fifth league title as well as picking up nine domestic cups along the way too.

Added to this we've also had a pretty decent amount of success in Europe too, playing in the Europa League for the the first three seasons and the Champions League for the past two. This year has been our most successful run, beating Barcelona at the Nou Camp on the way to reaching the first knockout round.

I've also had multiple players being sold to semi-big clubs, the most expensive going for 7 million and we've also got a few international players in our squad too. Our stadium is amongst the biggest in Hungary and our facilities are also better than any other club in Hungary.

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa380/Hungrymanuel/BarcelonavjpestSplitView-1.png

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa380/Hungrymanuel/JarvisCuskasNews_Inbox-22-1.png

So far this is just bragging essentially, but it paints a pretty clear picture that we are far away the biggest club in Hungary as well as making an impact on the European game in the wider scheme of things. But yet frustratingly so the game has us listed as the 6th biggest club in Hungary.

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa380/Hungrymanuel/HungaryClubs_List-1.png

This is a position which has varied slightly over the course of my reign, we've gone up as far as third position but the reputation seems to be showing absolutely no steady increase to correspond with my continued success. It's essentially making it more and more difficult to enjoy a save like this the longer I play it. The whole point of managing such a small club like this is the enjoyment gained from gradually working my way up the footballing ladder, but it is virtually impossible to do this with such a nonsensical reputation system. Its incredibly frustrating being limited to the same market of players for the past few years and just knowing that even players playing in say, a mid level club in Belgium we would simply have absolutely no chance of buying. Instead my players who we consistently expose to Champions League football become unsettled by such clearly inferior clubs expressing an interest in them. It's a totally broken system.

Again it seems to be boiling down to the fact that this game is made for the higher leagues and the smaller leagues are thrown in with the expectation that the patterns which are realistic for teams in the top leagues are completely irrelevant elsewhere.

If anyone has any solutions to this please post them because this is really becoming a game ruiner for me right now.

I would say that is a fair argument, and makes me wonder if I should start a long term save with my native Jamaica.:confused:

Havent played FM since 2010, but I would say its not a higher league's problem.

It's a sports interactive problem.

They have had the same broken systems in their games for literally I dont know how long, at least 2007 when I started playing. The reputation problem is slightly less of an issue in larger leagues, but it's still an issue. I always use this as an example, but the LA Galaxy were able to sign Beckham from Real Madrid, when in FM that never would have been allowed because Beckham has a huge reputation, as does Madrid, and the Galaxy are in a poor league.

But that's the problem with FM. "No desire to join your club" is flawed. EVERY player has a price. The FM system is too weighted towards reputation instead of a combination of the club and money.For instance, maybe Barcelona can sign a big player for 100k a week since they are a desirable location, and the LA Galaxy would have to pay 250k a week to lure the player to somewhere he doesnt really want to play.

Is it really a smart business decision to spend say, 80% of your budget on one player? Maybe, maybe not, but it should be UP TO YOU, the manager. Having some underrated player on a big club making 30k a week, and he has NO DESIRE to join, say, Everton, even for 200K, it's ridiculous.

Thats where the system has always been broken, even in the bigger league. Being able to overcome that with your club reputation rising with your successes worked a bit better for me in bigger leagues in FM 10 than your describing with this new game, but its all still a problem.

And it will never be fixed. Because S.I. doesnt care about us, or their game. Thats what Ive learned after all these years. Theyre just like EA with Madden in the states.

I'd have to agree with the post above, except for the reference to EA, SI clearly care about the community. How many ideas have we seen implemented in the game after having been given great support here?

Anyway, that's not the point. Reputation should certainly be a big factor in a players transfer and in a player wanting to move on but we're seeing irl that money is becoming far more important. If you're not nearly the most reputable team in your country but you are by far and away the richest you should comfortably be able to compete with any team in your country.

Hopefully in future versions we can see players paying more attention to money and recent successes than overall reputation. Not only that but it would be great if you could interact with a player you wanted to sign but thought you're clubs reputation was too small and tell them that you can offer them a great contract, or try and convince them the club is moving up rapidly in the world and has great ambition.

my club rep went down with wolves after i won league cup and finished fourth in the first season...

Havent played FM since 2010, but I would say its not a higher league's problem.

It's a sports interactive problem.

They have had the same broken systems in their games for literally I dont know how long, at least 2007 when I started playing. The reputation problem is slightly less of an issue in larger leagues, but it's still an issue. I always use this as an example, but the LA Galaxy were able to sign Beckham from Real Madrid, when in FM that never would have been allowed because Beckham has a huge reputation, as does Madrid, and the Galaxy are in a poor league.

But that's the problem with FM. "No desire to join your club" is flawed. EVERY player has a price. The FM system is too weighted towards reputation instead of a combination of the club and money.For instance, maybe Barcelona can sign a big player for 100k a week since they are a desirable location, and the LA Galaxy would have to pay 250k a week to lure the player to somewhere he doesnt really want to play.

Is it really a smart business decision to spend say, 80% of your budget on one player? Maybe, maybe not, but it should be UP TO YOU, the manager. Having some underrated player on a big club making 30k a week, and he has NO DESIRE to join, say, Everton, even for 200K, it's ridiculous.

Thats where the system has always been broken, even in the bigger league. Being able to overcome that with your club reputation rising with your successes worked a bit better for me in bigger leagues in FM 10 than your describing with this new game, but its all still a problem.

And it will never be fixed. Because S.I. doesnt care about us, or their game. Thats what Ive learned after all these years. Theyre just like EA with Madden in the states.

Realistically, Beckham went there at the arse end of his career. I see Zlatan Ibrahimovic go to Swansea in my game when he was too old. I bet LA Galaxy could of singed him if they wanted to. If you said to Beckham, when he was leaving Manchester United.. "here Becks, take a look at this club LA Galaxy...." you think for all the money in the world he would have considered it? No chance. Just like Messi, Ronaldo, Torres, Ibra and any other top player currently playing in todays game, they would not leave Europe in their peaks to play in an amature league.

Beckham is still being linked with premiership clubs so that would suggest he didn't go to LA Galaxy at the end of his career but more the case that he wanted a new challenge.

Beckham is still being linked with premiership clubs so that would suggest he didn't go to LA Galaxy at the end of his career but more the case that he wanted a new challenge.

You serious? What challenging about playing in MLS? What about the fact his wife wanted to break America to help her fashion range. How convenient was it that Beckham also could move to America and they could all stay they happily together.

i started game without human players

now its 2171 year and i used fmrte to see reputations and stuff like that

what is interesting

bosnian clubs doing well

they now have 2 clubs in group phase of cl and 1 in best place qual.

rating 7 in nation ranking for europe cups

but i found out no matter how much they good bosnia still developing country and still importance is important

on other hand belgium is developed country and they are cca 10 in nation rankings and in importnace they are very important

im sure if they have same results as bosnia they would be in top 5 leagues in europe

what is my point? my point is probably importance of league and stage of development have major influance in this

and that is as i conclude is static development and important never changed

development is larger sphere than football and that is ok if that is static but importance of football of one country would change if teams from that country have more and more sucess in europe year by year

sorry on my eng but i think you have a point of my post

You serious? What challenging about playing in MLS? What about the fact his wife wanted to break America to help her fashion range. How convenient was it that Beckham also could move to America and they could all stay they happily together.

Entirely serious, the fact that he was successful at one of the biggest clubs in the world and felt he had achieved what he wanted. On making his move to LA Galaxy he said he moved because he wanted a new challenge obviously the money was an incentive among many other things. Whats challenging about playing in the MLS - trying to win the league with LA Galaxy with average players, improving the standard of football in America.

No staff response at all on how this works/ how I'd be able to fix it?

Incredibly frustrating at the moment.

Using Beckham and money as an example isn't that great an idea as the MLS had to invent a new rule to allow LA Galaxy even to sign him and not break the league's wage cap structure. That would be impossible for SI to code, even as a side-effect of a nations league rising in status if its' clubs developed and achieved greater things in continental competition.

Beckham is still being linked with premiership clubs so that would suggest he didn't go to LA Galaxy at the end of his career but more the case that he wanted a new challenge.

I'm American and I can say MLS is a rubbish league and Beckham moved to LA Galaxy in the twilight of his career, the only Prem teams that want Becks is mid-table teams and PSG for marketing purposes, realistically Beckham can't contribute to a fast paced game.

BTW this is my opinion on David Beckham, he's more known for his international appeal than his current level of play.

I remember a podcast stating that rep went up with success of a club, as can a league, havn't played a long session to see yet, but they did say it was possible.

Entirely serious, the fact that he was successful at one of the biggest clubs in the world and felt he had achieved what he wanted. On making his move to LA Galaxy he said he moved because he wanted a new challenge obviously the money was an incentive among many other things. Whats challenging about playing in the MLS - trying to win the league with LA Galaxy with average players, improving the standard of football in America.

Beckham signed because he was getting paid $6.5 million a year and to expand his other interests into the American market, which is the same reason he's now signing with PSG.

Unfortunately for the OP (and for those of us who like to play outside the Top Four nations) the reputation issue isn't possible to fix, at least without resorting to FMRTE.

The odd thing is, however, the lack of DOMESTIC PROGRESS the OP's club is experiencing... Ujpest's domestic record should easily warrant them the #1 spot on the reputation table should they go through such a successful stint, especially if paired with respectable outings in CL and EL... How Videoton can be 2.5* while Ujpest and Ferencvaros are 2* is beyond me...

Anyway, about the international reputation of club and players, I think the game sadly reflects the real state of things in football... It doesn't really matter how well a small club can do in European Cups, it's highly unlikely for the players and the club itself to go past the "tricky dark horse" stage.

Unfortunately that's the way it is... Even the best Golden Generation possible isn't going to prevent a smaller club from selling their Top Stars for relatively small sums while the chances of replacing them with foreign players of the same quality are close to zero, and the domestic talent pool can't last forever.

At two different levels of fame, success and money I think the examples of Ajax and Rosenborg can work here.

The dutch side, despite having a rich tradition and plenty of international silverware, are still forced to rely on their academy and on the "discover, promote and sell" market policy. They have flooded the continent with talented footballers, but they're still "forced" to sell most of their talented players as soon as a good offer comes in.

In 1996-97, after two back-to-back CL finals (1 won, 1 lost), they sold/lost SIX first-team players, plus Seedorf the year before... And they were Ajax, a household name in European Football!

Then Rosenborg... they had become a CL regular in the 90s despite a semi-amateur setup, but they had to keep on selling players to pretty much anyone who was interested, year after year... Most of them failed to establish themselves abroad, most came back home rather soon, some had decent journeyman careers in a better league... but the point is Rosenborg were pretty much "forced" to sell every single player who was getting an offer (unless HE wanted to stay) while they weren't able to reinvest the money on international players.

Their market was either scooping up domestic talent or bringing in obscure foreigners from unlikely places... Sometimes it worked out well, some other times it was a disaster... and that meant success (money and exposure) or failure (no money, no exposure, no players).

So the bottom line is: no matter how big of a fish you can become in your small bowl, you'll always be a small fish in the big European pond where English and Spanish sharks swim

So the bottom line is: no matter how big of a fish you can become in your small bowl, you'll always be a small fish in the big European pond where English and Spanish sharks swim

I partly agree with your post. I think the point is that we try to make our bowl bigger (=increase league reputation) and fail because there are hardcoded (?) limits. Although the "big 5 leagues" are quite stable at the moment, Portugal is close to overtaking France as the 5th best league (according to coefficients), so changes can happen. If for example Portugal would always have 4 teams in the CL- and EL-semifinals in the next 10 years (which might be quite unrealistic but then again in FM possible), don't you think they would overtake at least France and probably Italy, too?

Club rep works just fine

should be said its from my custom Brazil remake.

Ole Brasil started with 1 star-

No staff response at all on how this works/ how I'd be able to fix it?

Incredibly frustrating at the moment.

Not defending SI on the general point because I completely agree with it and it really should be looked at, but it is Christmas at the moment.

Club rep works just fine

should be said its from my custom Brazil remake.

Ole Brasil started with 1 star-

Wow, my experience is very similar to the OPs. I've won the Swedish premier league 8/8 seasons (leading by 20 points half-way through the 9th season), and made it to the group stage of the champions league 6 years. Never made it past the 1st knockout round despite reaching it 4 times. I just last season past AIK as the most reputable team i Sweden eventhough both teams start at 2.5 stars and AIK has been lousy. The leauge rep has increased 0.5 stars (to 3) and my teams rep fell to 2 stars after 4 seasons only to slowly increase to 3 stars (where it is now).

So yes, the reputations are changing, but infuriatingly slowly and in counter-intuitive ways.

@ viiralx:

1. From what I can see, they don't even play in the first Brazilian division? Also: Brazil is a big league.. compared to Sweden or Hungary. The OP didn't say that club reputation doesn't change but that it is capped at a certain level, depending on your league standard. And the league standard is the thing that seems to be not so dynamic.

2. I don't know what the starting conditions of your database were but a team with 1* could usually never be bigger than Barca and Real by 2015! The amount of Brazilian teams in that list suggests that in your custom database the Brazilian leagues have a very high reputation... which brings me to point 1.

League Rep and Club Rep are Dynamic in FM12.

League Rep depends on its teams success in European Competitions (or Equivalent for teams not in Europe) not just the team your manager of.

Club Rep increases with success, the more higher rep competitions you win the higher our rep will go.

Whilst Man City can attract player due to their financial power, if you look at reputations they will still fall behind Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal because they haven't won anything substantial yet.

Reputation grows with consistent success. Unfortunately in FM they can't class the Hungary league the same as the English or Spanish leagues so it will take longer for your teams rep to increase due to the rep of the competition. I know that this is a little flawed (if that's the right word). But maybe that just the way the games under the hood mechanics have to work for the game to run.

@ viiralx:

1. From what I can see, they don't even play in the first Brazilian division? Also: Brazil is a big league.. compared to Sweden or Hungary. The OP didn't say that club reputation doesn't change but that it is capped at a certain level, depending on your league standard. And the league standard is the thing that seems to be not so dynamic.

2. I don't know what the starting conditions of your database were but a team with 1* could usually never be bigger than Barca and Real by 2015! The amount of Brazilian teams in that list suggests that in your custom database the Brazilian leagues have a very high reputation... which brings me to point 1.

The screenshot is taken from a holiday experient using my custom brazil league

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/290145-FM12-Otakusuki-Brasileir%C3%A3o-Project-(6-Tiers)-is-released!

They started in Tier 10 (my league does down to 13) also in tier 7 in regional league. won a division in both leagues 5 years in a row and beat santos in copa do brazil.

I can very much see how leagues with few divisions have a snail paced club rep changes.

Dynamic rep works fine in Scotland, not one of the top 4 leagues so that throws that out the window. Rep changes both domestically and on a european level.

Changes in reputation are way too slow imo. It's kinda redicoulus when the board expects you to make it to the third qualifying round of the champions league when you are automatically qualified for the group stages... Every single press conference is endless talk about how "the dream continues" eventhough the club is ranked top30 in the world. Seems like rep and ranking should be more closely connected.

I can agree to a lot of the comments, and that small leagues REALLY have to work for their reputation to rise, does make sense. But what I can't explain is how my 2'nd team rose from 1/2* to 3* in one season, and then in the following season they passed me!? :-S

I'm playing Rosenborg, I'm in my 9'th season, I've played in the CL group stage every year, I've played in EL or CL playoff all but 1 season, going to quarterfinals in CL and semifinals in EL... What really annoys me, is how I'm rated lowest of the 3* teams, it's like there's no difference between them, as if 3* is 3* alike... If that's the case, that could explain how my second team could pass me on the list...

However, something must have happened, cause I just bought a $30 mill player from Premier League...

Gah...

Hey All,

I can say there was a problem before the third patch, small clubs were really slow at growing their reputation and hence we had some weird cases, I posted in the Bugs Forum, and Stu fixed the issue for me, or at least in the case of a small club growing in reputation. If anyone has any case of this still not increasing on the new patch could they head over there and post it in the Bugs Forum so we can continue to make it work.

My Thread

Cheers