defence improved a lot, but SI, wth did you with team interaction???

lol, its so ridiculous, am playing with everton, random reputation, but guess its low, currently 32 points out of 39 and just 2 points behind manutd, we had a carling cup qtr final game against doncaster and managed to only win by extra time. so I was pissed of and told my players, that I wasnt happy about the way, we played and 4 of my players became angered. so I thought well, lets continue and see there, what has happened? lol, seing all those 4 being unhappy and wanting to leave the club just because of one fkn wron team talk... seriously, its so absurd. where is the system from fm11? even when it was not perfect, at least in fm11, there werent silly things like this. lol, playing against a championship or coca cola team, just managing to win 2-1 by extra time, so it should be my best right, to tell my players, that their performances werent good. do you think, I should have been happy, so that they get complacent in the next game?

SI, with this years fm, especially with this so called "improved and realistic" team management, you really destroyed this beautiful game

I totally agree with you.

By messing up things like this SI thinks they are improving their game...

Well they had to try something when people flood the forums complaining games to easy etc, i agree the interaction still needs work but it has added a bit more difficulty to the game which people have been screaming for last few month

Well they had to try something when people flood the forums complaining games to easy etc, i agree the interaction still needs work but it has added a bit more difficulty to the game which people have been screaming for last few month

Some people, not all or the majority, just some. Most were perfectly happy how it was. I know you defend SI alot but even you can see 4 players wanting to leave after an arbitory team talk is quite frankly laughable.

Some people, not all or the majority, just some. Most were perfectly happy how it was. I know you defend SI alot but even you can see 4 players wanting to leave after an arbitory team talk is quite frankly laughable.

I defend SI When its necessarie daz, too many people complain and scream blue murder without any proof, yes i know this is't one of these threads, but lets be fair there was more then just a few screaming for difficulty to be changed look how many threads they were and look how many post are in these threads, so SI have acted and tried to change things which i dont think they have do a bad job of so far, but yes still needs to be tweaked more as i said

si wants to make the game more difficult? then, how about trying to make the AI more intelligent??? trying to at least solve the bugs from the ME, which will stop people abuse and exploit the ME, in order to take advantages of its weaknesses??? for months now, people are almost crying, that the defensive behaviour is just awful in this game. players are too cautious, put someone like gameiro upfront and he will rip off every d-line, just because of its pace. people are crying, that pace is everything in this game, that almost 2/3 of the goals coming from set pieces, that crosses once again are so useless, that playing with wingers seems to be a waste and so on... thesre are weaknesses of the match engine, which havent been solved for more than 2 years and instead of trying to do this, si just working on useless things and even making things worse than before. kinda reminds me of EA, who were always developing new features, which didnt really have something to do with a football manager game and the main thing, ME was so buggy, that a lot of people gave up and changed to SI's manager. im one of them, and I wouldnt really like to see, that SI's taking the same route and destroying this beautiful game...

PLS SI, keep things EASY, we dont want new features. its enough, when you just improve the existing ones. TACTICS, TRANSFERS, TRAINING, SCOUTING AND ME. thats it.

But... once again... you don't "fix" the difficulty issue by throwing a monkey wrench into the works!

This revised morale system is as much as a fix as it was the increased ratio of missed 1-on-1 some years ago because SI weren't able to rework the defensive job in the ME, so the only way to stop matches from having waterpolo-like scores was to increase the likelihood of world-class strikers fluffing CCCs.

Unfortunately this "overmedication" policy seems to be the rule in recent FMs... same thing we've seen for the transfer market... One year you can buy Torres for 20M, then the following year Spurs will want 100M for Modric, then it's cheap again... One year you can offload your deadwood for 10M, then one year later you can't even sell Messi for 5M ete...

It's annoying because the morale dynamics are too over the top, one way or another... why not just toning down the effect of morale on performance?

si wants to make the game more difficult? then, how about trying to make the AI more intelligent??? trying to at least solve the bugs from the ME, which will stop people abuse and exploit the ME, in order to take advantages of its weaknesses??? for months now, people are almost crying, that the defensive behaviour is just awful in this game. players are too cautious, put someone like gameiro upfront and he will rip off every d-line, just because of its pace. people are crying, that pace is everything in this game, that almost 2/3 of the goals coming from set pieces, that crosses once again are so useless, that playing with wingers seems to be a waste and so on... thesre are weaknesses of the match engine, which havent been solved for more than 2 years and instead of trying to do this, si just working on useless things and even making things worse than before. kinda reminds me of EA, who were always developing new features, which didnt really have something to do with a football manager game and the main thing, ME was so buggy, that a lot of people gave up and changed to SI's manager. im one of them, and I wouldnt really like to see, that SI's taking the same route and destroying this beautiful game...

PLS SI, keep things EASY, we dont want new features. its enough, when you just improve the existing ones. TACTICS, TRANSFERS, TRAINING, SCOUTING AND ME. thats it.

There trying to improve the M.E but like Paulc as said a few times the M.E changes this year had to be limited so they can work on a new and improved M.E for future versions

There trying to improve the M.E but like Paulc as said a few times the M.E changes this year had to be limited so they can work on a new and improved M.E for future versions

Then why charge us for a new game? The match engine is the single most important thing and yet it's not been touched.

Then why charge us for a new game? The match engine is the single most important thing and yet it's not been touched.

But fm as more features then just the M.E daz you know this and the M.E as had a few tweaks by the way, and without going down this route this is how the gaming industry works is't it, dose Fifa/Cod etc change that much year to year and there £40 were as fm is around £25 or cheaper

But fm as more features then just the M.E daz you know this and the M.E as had a few tweaks by the way, and without going down this route this is how the gaming industry works is't it, dose Fifa/Cod etc change that much year to year and there £40 were as fm is around £25 or cheaper

I know it is more than the match engine, but the match engine is broken and has been for 2 years. Pace is everything and wingers/crosses/defending is none existent.

I know it is more than the match engine, but the match engine is broken and has been for 2 years. Pace is everything and wingers/crosses/defending is none existent.

Its not broken lol just needs improving hench my paulc comment

and agree and SI know about the pace acceleration problems but hopefully this will be evened out over next year or so

You can play Limbo or whatever and actually finish the game in 2 days and get bored also. there is no comparison

You can play Limbo or whatever and actually finish the game in 2 days and get bored also. there is no comparison

I don't understand this! :confused:

I don't understand this! :confused:

Snap !!!! ___

Wingers do work. i score most of my goals from early crosses to the far past, with a striker or the opposite winger banging it in. defence does exist, just you have to think, that player isnt just running next to him, as the engine represents, maybe switch to 2d? then you can imagine the defending doing something. Honestly some of the things people moan about,, but really is there evidence of wingers being useless when hazard gets 30 assists? no corners taken? hmm.

I agree that the example that the OP used is ridiculous, one harsh team talk in real life would never make 4 players want to leave the club. If real life where like that then Alex Ferguson's United wouldn't have any players left!

Not sure I get the problem with wingers though, I score a lot of goals from crosses.

Winger are much more important in FM11+12 than they were in FM09 and especially FM10. 10.3 made playing with genuine wingers useless, though "inside forwards" were devastating. I think the wide play balance is about right in these last few match engine updates.

Anyway, @ the OP- you should probably have said nothing in this situation, your players didn't do well but they still won the match. As you aren't a top, top club, then that's acceptable, so don't praise them or lay into them.

Let's be honest, in real life players are constantly throwing hissy fits and not exactly being angels. In the game in previous versions it was far too easy to get a players morale high and keep it high for pretty much the entire season. Even the best clubs morale will drop after a shock defeat, the managers job is to keep sides playing well and morale up. That's exactly what the changes now allow you to do.

If a player is upset over a teamtalk then it's your job to make them happy again - it's all part of the managerial process. Do you honestly think after a 120 minute slog where you've run your heart out and scraped a win you want to come back into the dressing room and be told you were crap?! I'd be pretty angry too!

So is there a Manager option to apologise to the player and tell him it was in the heat of the moment?

Dear SI

I am writing to you to express my anger at the unrealism of your game. I once told my team they played badly after a win and a number of players got so upset at me they threw hissy fits and wanted to leave the club. There is NO WAY that a single incident like that would make anyone SO ANGRY that they would respond in this manner. They would sit down, reflect on what happened and decide to do something different next time. They WOULD NOT angrily confront the club's manager or express their dissatisfaction in a public forum!

Yours etc

NB I have no discernible sense of irony.

That doesn't really work, on many levels.

Let's be honest, in real life players are constantly throwing hissy fits and not exactly being angels. In the game in previous versions it was far too easy to get a players morale high and keep it high for pretty much the entire season. Even the best clubs morale will drop after a shock defeat, the managers job is to keep sides playing well and morale up. That's exactly what the changes now allow you to do.

If a player is upset over a teamtalk then it's your job to make them happy again - it's all part of the managerial process. Do you honestly think after a 120 minute slog where you've run your heart out and scraped a win you want to come back into the dressing room and be told you were crap?! I'd be pretty angry too!

The problem, as I see it, is that player morale is too fickle in the case of the OP. One player, much less four of them, are going to mope about getting transfered after the team struggled to win against an inferior opponent and the coach took them to task for it? If the team was struggling and morale was low, I could possibly understand. But this? No way.

I think there needs to be a few more statements along the lines of 'you guys made hard work of that win', there are hardly any ways of giving positive criticism in the game, it is all a little too black & white.

What confuses me is that "pleased" is Delighted, while "Very good" is also Delighted...

There is a lack of nuance here which the player AI is not smart enough to understand. When a player makes a mistake, gets the "mistake" motivational feedback, and don't improve this means that the single mistake made him lose focus and ruined his and possibly the whole team's match. THAT's what I want to criticise, I couldn't care less about the average rating! The same thing goes for "playing nervously" - If he is invisible the whole match but end up with a 6.7 while the rest of the team gets 7.3 or better because of this, THAT's what I want to criticise. I don't tolerate nervous, fickle, clumsy performances and certainly not bad choices on the field - and that is what "playing nervously" entails.

I want to be able to say "you were nervous out there today - you need to pull yourself together if you are to remain at this club"... If his status at the club and his experience dictates that he should be cool and composed when the team needs it the most. Being nervous and thus failing his comrades, his boss and the fans is completely unacceptable!

Dear SI

I am writing to you to express my anger at the unrealism of your game. I once told my team they played badly after a win and a number of players got so upset at me they threw hissy fits and wanted to leave the club. There is NO WAY that a single incident like that would make anyone SO ANGRY that they would respond in this manner. They would sit down, reflect on what happened and decide to do something different next time. They WOULD NOT angrily confront the club's manager or express their dissatisfaction in a public forum!

Yours etc

NB I have no discernible sense of irony.

mate, thats exactly the case. im so pissed off... some of you might know me from fm11, as I had a thread going on in the tactics section, so im not a newbie to this game. but in this years fm, especially after that new patch, its just horrible. one single mistake, really just one single mistake in team talks can cost you a whole season. if they play **** and you criticize them, you are facing the danger, that you might anger some of your players. well, not a problem, but then, they really exaggerating it, became unhappy and wanting to leave the club. same goes on for positive criticizm. when you win very close, but you know, you played very well, and just failed to win by more goals, because your strikers didnt catch their luckiest day, you tell your team, that youre happy, and suddenly, youre getting a reaction, that some of the players lost their focus and so on... and if you repeat it, and after 2,3 games with the same reaction, they became unhappy aswell. so you just dont know what to do. if you criticize them, youre doing a huge mistake. if you give them some credit, youre doing a big mistake. if you dont do anything, players starting to complain about my team talk abilities in the media. so wtf shall we do?

I would have thought the reaction would be determined by the individual personality of the player/s - Some players taking it heart and having spit, more professional/determined players find it motivating?

Just to underline my point earlier in the thread, Ferguson was saying today after a 2-0 win at QPR that they should have put the game to bed after half an hour and should have scored more.

No one has asked for a transfer yet, but maybe that will come later today.

Theres a difference tho, Ferguson is not saying they played poorly, just that they played so well but didnt put away enough chances early on which ment they had to keep very sharp all game. Big difference to saying your team played crap and your lucky to win.

In that situation yes, but Ferguson has openly slated his team's performances after a win in the past if he doesn't think it was up to scratch and I've never seen multiple players request a transfer after one of these occasions.

Theres a difference tho, Ferguson is not saying they played poorly, just that they played so well but didnt put away enough chances early on which ment they had to keep very sharp all game. Big difference to saying your team played crap and your lucky to win.

Also a big difference between beating QPR 2-0 and beating Doncaster 2-1 in extra time (as in the OP's case). If we were to put the OPs situation into real life, any decent manager would rip their team after a mediocre performance such as that, and any team would more or less expect to get ripped by said manager. Nobody would be asking for transfer. The system is much too sensitive.

In that situation yes, but Ferguson has openly slated his team's performances after a win in the past if he doesn't think it was up to scratch and I've never seen multiple players request a transfer after one of these occasions.

Ferguson is also arguably the worlds best ever manager, when you get to his stage you will get a similar respect from your players, in my save which is more than 10 years in and i have a very good rep i can have a go at my players in any situation and not get an adverse reaction, but in the game i have been around long enough for my players to fully respect me.

Also a big difference between beating QPR 2-0 and beating Doncaster 2-1 in extra time (as in the OP's case). If we were to put the OPs situation into real life, any decent manager would rip their team after a mediocre performance such as that, and any team would more or less expect to get ripped by said manager. Nobody would be asking for transfer. The system is much too sensitive.

To decide that you need the whole story, how well did Doncaster play? Just because he is in the EPL does not give his team a guaranteed win against a lower league team and to expect such is pretty silly. We have half a story and everyone is quick to jump on the bug bandwagon as usual on here.

Ferguson is also arguably the worlds best ever manager, when you get to his stage you will get a similar respect from your players, in my save which is more than 10 years in and i have a very good rep i can have a go at my players in any situation and not get an adverse reaction, but in the game i have been around long enough for my players to fully respect me.

And again, no players asked to be transferred after his outburst.

Yes but he only did that after considerable success with Aberdeen and he had proven to his players he was a fantastic manager worth listening too. That was also close to 30 years ago when players were much different and had very little say over their future, if they had asked for a transfer they would have been left to rot for years without any chance of a move so it wasnt worth the risk. FYI players did fall out with Fergie back then because of what he said to him, i have every book on that period of Aberdeens history along with any video or dvd, things were not always rosy because of his approach, he pissed off alot of people on his way to achieving the success he has now.

He famously criticised his Aberdeen side when they won a Scottish Cup, saying that they didn't deserve it. This was obviously before he even joined United so he didn't have anywhere near the rep he has now.

And again, no players asked to be transferred after his outburst.

That was a very different time, players had much less power back then. Fall out with the manager in the early 80's & you could expect your career to vanish as you spend your time training with the kids & once your contract ran out you still couldn't go to another club because your previous club held your registration & will demand a transfer fee.

Do be careful when using 30 year old examples.

Edit: or what Milnerpoint said, must remember to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.

Well, I just started a new save and I'm finding the game much easier. On 12.0, Totenham was my "bogey team" and I always had a hard time even scraping a draw against them.

In 12.1, I played Tottenham in the first league game and won 7-1... at White Hart Lane. Now, their morale has cratered and they're looking like Bolton in my save.

So... given that players are bit more difficult to manage for the AI as well, it's not clear that these adjustments will actually make the game harder, except maybe for those who play on auto-pilot.

Game has died... I always use Sunday League reputation so i understand it being a bit more difficult to motivate players but this is ridiculous.. every player takes no notice or is uninterested and it's ruined the game i'm afraid.

Game has died... I always use Sunday League reputation so i understand it being a bit more difficult to motivate players but this is ridiculous.. every player takes no notice or is uninterested and it's ruined the game i'm afraid.

i started again on automatic and too find it hard to motivate players BUT...i do prefer it this way anyway,although morale does have a part to play i think on patch 12.04 it was too reliant on morale

Interaction in 12.1 is VERY BAD IMO

in 12.0.4 interaction wasn't good, but now it is worse.

even in 12.0.4 the main part of players reacted negative on every interaction (tutoring, PPM's and others)

I don't think players IRL will start hating their manager because he tries to improve them

but it was the case in 12.0.4 and in 12.1 it is 100 x worse

I feel like people are nitpicking and looking for excuses.

If anyone can find a single example in the history of football where a manager has criticised a win against a team in a lower division and this has resulted in 4 players asking for a transfer then fair enough.

Until anyone can do that (and I seriously doubt they will find a single example in hundreds of thousands of matches) then I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Wow it amazes me how people over-analyze simple things.

I started a new save a few days before the current patch came out and the team talk wasn't so annoying, after it was released the team talks are a bit harder now and the results are more harder to come by. It's been harder to motivate the more experienced players but the younger players I have in my squad react quite well to my team talks. I have drop a few points because of this and lost 2 CL games to teams way below our level of play and tried "yelling" at them but to no avail, I came to the realization that if they don't respond to the team talks but we still get the results it doesn't really matter but Sneijder has been playing poorly and so has Balzaretti I did a private talk with the later and he responded negatively, I gave him and Sniejder a warning and they accepted it.

What i'm trying to get at is maybe the team talks have to deal with our reputation and the reputation of the players, I started as a manager from a small country(Jamaica) with a national reputation and took control of Inter who has Continental reputation so i'm guessing the players think I don't know what i'm doing and i'm too inexperienced. Even tho we finished runners-up in our CL group against really inferior teams and got knocked out of the league cup we are still sitting in 1st tied on points with Palermo, with injuries to alot of my starters, i'm perfectly content with these team talks, as long as the results come. And hopefully has the game progresses I will a little more respect from experienced players.

They probably already disliked the manager. Especially if he's been stingy with the praise, despite his teams impressive performance in the league.

A title-challenging manager doesn't throw a fit over a slightly squiffy carling cup victory.(I say "fit" because I'm guessing you didn't hold back with the tone.)

Remember also that the game cannot make you take training for hours every day, or simulate the thousands of humdrum interactions with the players that would build up a more nuanced personality over time - it would be really dull to be setting team sliders for "freedom to listen to music", or "dress code on match days" , or "rules of decorum in the club cafeteria" or "christmas party budget"

Instead, the game tends to take fewer incidents as indicative of your wider demeanour: if you give lots of harsh team talks then you're a ball-buster, and in this case your players don't respect you enough to put up with it. This happens all the time.

It's the futility of the hard-man act that saw the end of the likes of Graeme Souness etc. Modern players will let Mourinho or Ferguson be mean to them (sort of - Ferguson says himself he has to be more gentle with players these days, and Mourinho is often very coddling of his important players, and freezes out, rather than abuses, those he dislikes)

If you start a game as an inexperienced manager with a big team, then you have to think about how little respect you would actually get IRL from your players.

Think how little respect Avram Grant got from the Chelsea team. Then imagine if he started shouting at them after their victories, instead of doing his quiet Toad impression. Sure, he might have won some newfound respect from a couple, but he'd more likely see "sources" telling the media that Drogba was eager to leave, or that Lampard had always been an AC Milan fan.

If this game is ever going to have anything like the "difficulty levels" that people ask for fairly frequently, then it has to start by genuinely enforcing reputation penalties against the human manager. They don't have to take your shouting just because you've had a good half-season. You've basically done a Phil Brown

That said, half the whining on these forums occurs because people set far too much stock by little incidents of player happiness. You can still carry on doing well while ******* off players now and then.

Supposedly unsettled or wantaway players from Man Utd in the past couple of seasons: Tevez, Berbatov, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Nani, Anderson, Wes Brown, Macheda,

Players on that list who actually left: Tevez, and Wes Brown, who first sat quietly on the bench for a season and watched Utd march to the league, and then got sold.

It's not necessarily that big a deal to have a player throw a strop and threaten to leave. It has to coincide with a transfer window and an interested club that is an attractive option, before it requires panic.

In my FM10 save, where I was a legendary Werder Bremen manager, my players hated how harsh I was in team talks, and would often get unhappy about it, but as long as I was continually winning, and willing to wait out their strops, they always decided it was worth staying.

My sentiments exactly Dekker your spot on

Exactly Dekker.

Well this is a surprise, having just seen my team crap a penalty shoot-out win against a non-league side after hold a 2-0 HT lead I calmly tell them that they got out of jail after putting in such a poor performance & none of them got angry with me or had any kind of negative reaction.

It's not only what you say but how you say it.

It's not only what you say but how you say it.

I think this is going to be this years biggest issue, there is no help at all coming from SI's side as to what options you should choose in what situations, i know for some of us it will seem like common sense, but for others it wont, and they will run into problems a lot because of choosing the wrong tone in the wrong situation.

I think this is going to be this years biggest issue, there is no help at all coming from SI's side as to what options you should choose in what situations, i know for some of us it will seem like common sense, but for others it wont, and they will run into problems a lot because of choosing the wrong tone in the wrong situation.

I agree, but the problem is sometimes the question/answer is ambiguous, or just plain wrong. The example of saying "I am confident in all areas of the team" being a negative evasive answer rather than a strong positive is one. That said, I haven't run into too many problems since the patch, only one team meeting ended very badly when I gave an answer I believed to mean one thing and the players seemed to think I meant something else.

As always, context is everything.

Firstly, lets analyse the OP. He was worried that the team was becoming complacent after the narrow win against Doncaster. My first thought is, if that was the worry, why not use the 'warn against complacency' talk rather than the 'played badly' talk? If you think one thing but say another, then is it not surprising that reactions are unexpected? It seems to me that he was trying to 'trick' the team into being fired up for the next game by using the opportunity to employ a harsh talk, not thinking though the possible consequences i.e. it was a gamey, not managerial, action.

Secondly, the issue of players wanting to leave. Dekker summed up the job team talks do very nicely, being an approximation of a longer attitude that FM is unable to simulate. They do not exist in isolation and treating them as such is, once again, gamey. Further, if players are responding that way, it will be because the manager's reputation is unrealistic for the level. If a no-mark manager is throwing hairdriers at established players for slightly iffy performances, then they are going to think 'who the hell does he think he is' and 'I'm out of here'. Trying to compare this reaction to real life is an exercise in pointlessness, as top clubs do not employ no-mark managers. That you can artificially add to the game's difficulty in FM by being one is SI's nod to the element of the community wanting a tough game. If you don't, then start with a different reputation.

I was meaning more for team talks than anything else, but i see what you mean.