Coaching system now flawed?

Hey guys, not entirely sure where to put this, so since this is GD, seems appropriate for just now.

Just started my new Celtic game, and usually I wipe out all current staff and bring in my own first team staff, so usually I bring in everyone under the coach role, and according to fm I'm allowed to have 11 coaches to start with, however I go to sign 9, and I can only sign 5 of them before the board decides I don't need anymore!

Now I'm wondering if instead of just having 11 coaches, I now have to set coaches as first team coaches, goalkeeping coaches etc?

Can anyone advise on this?

And however now if I go to offer the rejected coaches another contract it says I can't offer them a new contract, I have to wait until their club accepts an offer? This even happened with flavio trevisan who is unattached!

Just had this problem to, im alowd 15 coaches but board will only let me have 7!

I have no youth coaches

It says im aloud 15 coaching staff, i currently have 3 coaches 2 fit coaches and 2 gk coaches

Hey guys, not entirely sure where to put this, so since this is GD, seems appropriate for just now.

Just started my new Celtic game, and usually I wipe out all current staff and bring in my own first team staff, so usually I bring in everyone under the coach role, and according to fm I'm allowed to have 11 coaches to start with, however I go to sign 9, and I can only sign 5 of them before the board decides I don't need anymore!

Now I'm wondering if instead of just having 11 coaches, I now have to set coaches as first team coaches, goalkeeping coaches etc?

Can anyone advise on this?

And however now if I go to offer the rejected coaches another contract it says I can't offer them a new contract, I have to wait until their club accepts an offer? This even happened with flavio trevisan who is unattached!

If you to the boardroom page, on the left hand side you'll see the staff numbers allowed. If you go over that number the deals will be cancelled so you will need give them more specfic roles such as fitness coach, first team coach etc and make sure you stay within the boards number of staff.

I have noticed same problem while starting a new game. I have sacked 10+ staff members and then contracted 6 people and can't get more... also no option to ask board for more

another problem: i cannot offer contracts to free staff

I have noticed same problem while starting a new game. I have sacked 10+ staff members and then contracted 6 people and can't get more... also no option to ask board for more

another problem: i cannot offer contracts to free staff

i just got this for the first time after the update. if this is a change i really dont like it. if the board is willing to pay for 15 staff members why do they care if i sign 6 regular coaches and assign one to fitness or 5 regular and a fitness coach?

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this site seem to have a fetish for clearing out entire backroom staffs when they take over a club. Having 5 star coaches across the board has a negligible difference on player development, and really no effect at all unless you individualise player training schedules. Money could be spend far more wisely on other things than making sure your physio has 20 for physiotherapy.

If you to the boardroom page, on the left hand side you'll see the staff numbers allowed. If you go over that number the deals will be cancelled so you will need give them more specfic roles such as fitness coach, first team coach etc and make sure you stay within the boards number of staff.

Yeah I think I have to now, I never used to have to do that before, I would always sign generic coaches

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this site seem to have a fetish for clearing out entire backroom staffs when they take over a club. Having 5 star coaches across the board has a negligible difference on player development, and really no effect at all unless you individualise player training schedules. Money could be spend far more wisely on other things than making sure your physio has 20 for physiotherapy.

Tbf though I do create individual training schedules for different positions, and I always sort out my coaches, scouts and physios, so I take care of all the backroom staff!

Please post constructive stuff, if this doesn't affect you then there is no reason to post

How many youth coaches and GK coaches (combined) should you be allowed?

For me neil I'm allowed 3 youth coaches, 3 coaches, 3 first team coaches, 1 fitness and 1 goalkeeping coach, however in every previous fm since coaches have been introduced, I've been able to name every coach purely as that, instead of having a set amount of fitness coaches etc! Even on patch 12.0.4 I could do it, I'm not saying its a major issue, its something obviously I could work around, but I just wasn't sure if it was a knock-on effect from the changes to the coding?

If you to the boardroom page, on the left hand side you'll see the staff numbers allowed. If you go over that number the deals will be cancelled so you will need give them more specfic roles such as fitness coach, first team coach etc and make sure you stay within the boards number of staff.

That I can understand mate, just as my post specifys above I never used to have to do that, in previous patches if my board said say I could have 4 coaches, 3 first team coaches, 3 youth coaches, 2 goalkeeping coaches and 2 fitness coaches, I used to be able to sign 14 coaches, purely as coaches to cover that. So whether that's new in 12.1 or a knockon effect I'm not sure

And this was constructive by insulting someone else? Woaw your an intelligent human being!

And if you really think about it I didn't mention anything about physios being an issue, if you don't clear out your backroom staff then fair play to you, you run your club in a different way completely and that's upto you because its your club, I so choose to improve my backroom staff in the first season, then work on my players after that if not the season after! So as I said before constructive posting is good, use the grey matter in between ure tissue before making silly comments

How was your post constructive when you did not even address the topic? He asked a pretty legitimate question about a change in the hiring system for coaches, which as far as I can tell was not mentioned in the changes list. Your response was that lots of people on this forums sack the old staff (game tells you of this option by informing you that you can mutually terminate all previous staff, which I imagine is something that real life managers would do at least to some extent to bring in their own staff), having 5 star coaches only gives a minimal effect (none of the other posters mentioned trying to get super staff by bringing their own, just that they wanted to hire their own personnel), and people shouldn't bother hiring Physios with 20 rating as its a waste of money (makes me curious as to your staff hiring policy if you think trying the get the best staff is a waste of money? But that's your choice of course). None of those 3 points are related to the topic about how the coaching hiring system seems to be different, so how was your post constructive?

Don't forget that lower league managers would be affected by this as well, as usually I would opt for hiring more regular coaches rather than a specialized first team/youth coach, especially since my youth intakes are terrible that I don't bother to keep a youth team the first few seasons, and any youth players I sign to develop are already good enough to play in the first team... hmm, maybe I should start signing more capable veterans lol

I was getting really infuriated by this last night. I don't like it at all: I don't see why I can't rebalance my coaches by say sacking one youth coach and replacing him with a fitness coach as long as I stay within the overall staff numbers.

I do see that the previous system favoured general coaches too much: I rarely bothered with first team coaches except as a way of bumping up wages for particularly favoured coaches. But I can't for the life of me see why I can't use a first team coach vacancy to employ an extra fitness coach - a less senior post on lower wages.

Nocuous' reply was relevant towards subsequent replies in this thread though. And maybe it's just me, but I can't see anything insulting in his post, nor anything aimed at specific individuals either. His post gave reasons for his views as well, and if you want to take it a little further, it's also relevant in the sense that it's yet another reason why the coaching system is and always has been flawed. In what way is that not constructive?

If anybody's managing in a lower league, how does this work out for you? It's annoying if you have a total limit of 10+ coaches but easily worked around, but if you can only hire 2 or 3 in the first place, it'll be ridiculous if the board are forcing you to make one of those specifically a fitness coach when they could help out in other areas if they were a general coach. If this is the case, it seems odd that this has been put in the game without an option to ask the board to change the numbers around (i.e. if I have one less fitness coach, can I have one more general coach?)

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on this site seem to have a fetish for clearing out entire backroom staffs when they take over a club. Having 5 star coaches across the board has a negligible difference on player development, and really no effect at all unless you individualise player training schedules. Money could be spend far more wisely on other things than making sure your physio has 20 for physiotherapy.

This is wrong.

Better staff increases the club's reputation and training rating, which are both factors that can contribute to persuade a player to choose you over other clubs. Good coaches also tend to have better knowledge of nations and this may contribute to let you find better youth candidates each March.

One more point I want to make is that in previous versions youth coaches were worthless since whenever a player turned 17 (in English leagues at least), he would start training with the seniors. Now that this is changed (all players in the youth squad will train with the youth regardless of contract), youth coaches are more useful as there are no longer only a couple of players on the youth schedules.

When that is said, I agree that the designated coach roles should be up to the manager to decide.

Nocuous' reply was relevant towards subsequent replies in this thread though. And maybe it's just me, but I can't see anything insulting in his post, nor anything aimed at specific individuals either. His post gave reasons for his views as well, and if you want to take it a little further, it's also relevant in the sense that it's yet another reason why the coaching system is and always has been flawed. In what way is that not constructive?

If anybody's managing in a lower league, how does this work out for you? It's annoying if you have a total limit of 10+ coaches but easily worked around, but if you can only hire 2 or 3 in the first place, it'll be ridiculous if the board are forcing you to make one of those specifically a fitness coach when they could help out in other areas if they were a general coach. If this is the case, it seems odd that this has been put in the game without an option to ask the board to change the numbers around (i.e. if I have one less fitness coach, can I have one more general coach?)

Hehe, only reason I replied was because he posted a silly one sentence post afterward that he deleted, which is what McGougan was referring to when he said insulted. While I can see how what he said could be highlighting some other flaws in the coaching system, it was a bit random to complain about people sacking staff and the physios so I just added my two cents.

Anyways, to get back on topic, it would really be nice to know if this change is intended/permanent or just a bug with the new patch. I suppose its easy enough to work around in the case that it is a permanent change, but as you mentioned, it would be really nice if subsequently they added a feature to change which type of coaches you are allowed to hire. Would be unfortunate if you're forced to sign a worse coach than you would like for a fitness/gk coach because they only want to sign as a regular coach instead

That I can understand mate, just as my post specifys above I never used to have to do that, in previous patches if my board said say I could have 4 coaches, 3 first team coaches, 3 youth coaches, 2 goalkeeping coaches and 2 fitness coaches, I used to be able to sign 14 coaches, purely as coaches to cover that. So whether that's new in 12.1 or a knockon effect I'm not sure

It's a new thing as I used to be able to do what you do but not anymore.

If anything, it's a bug fix as this is how the staff management used to work in previous versions of the game.

Its not obviously a massive issue, but I do agree with the lads that for llm it might be very tricky, however as a club like Celtic, I can just about work around it.

What I found though after I restarted again was, if I fired everyone right, then I signed 3 first team coaches and moved on a day, then signed 3 normal coaches, moved on a few days, then the same again for fitness and goalkeeping coaches, after that I could then sign a few more generic coaches using this method.

I don't see this being a problem for within an LLM framework unless I am prevented from signing a fitness or GK coach because the board will only allow 3 general coaches to be employed.

That's fair enough I suppose because every club, has specific coaches.

Here's another issue though neil, teamtalks! My lads won 3-1 there and they've decided when I say nice job that's a good win, they look to switch off! Everyteam talk I'm doing seems to go wrong and my teams morale is terrible, however its the same teamtalks I used from 12.0 to 12.0.4 with positive results ?

What about the reverse function, Neil? If I am allotted 3 coaching positions but none in the speciality categories will I be prevented from signing a speciality coach.

That's fair enough I suppose because every club, has specific coaches.

Here's another issue though neil, teamtalks! My lads won 3-1 there and they've decided when I say nice job that's a good win, they look to switch off! Everyteam talk I'm doing seems to go wrong and my teams morale is terrible, however its the same teamtalks I used from 12.0 to 12.0.4 with positive results ?

You might want to check out the difficulty thread, Paul C has been taking about this area & the tweaks that were made.

Could you link me to it please mate, I'm on my phone atm so It takes ages to find things

Basically the 'fix' was to stop an exploit. Before it said you could have say 2 First Team Coaches, 2 Coaches, 1 GK Coach, 1 Fitness Coach and 3 Youth Coaches you could go out and sign 9 normal coaches. Now you have to specifically fill the roles.

Since the database hasn't been changed to suit this (in regards to who wants to be first team coach, assistant, coach, youth coach etc), have you tested long-term to make sure that games doesn't become unplayable because of a lack of one of those?

One more point I want to make is that in previous versions youth coaches were worthless since whenever a player turned 17 (in English leagues at least), he would start training with the seniors. Now that this is changed (all players in the youth squad will train with the youth regardless of contract), youth coaches are more useful as there are no longer only a couple of players on the youth schedules.

When that is said, I agree that the designated coach roles should be up to the manager to decide.

But won't you move them to reserves as soon as they turn 17 so that they can train full time?

But won't you move them to reserves as soon as they turn 17 so that they can train full time?

Depends if their is a reserve league, in Scotland there is none so i make huge use of my youth coaches, where as in 11 they were almost pointless.

But won't you move them to reserves as soon as they turn 17 so that they can train full time?

I am sorry but the dozen-or-so reserve matches aren't enough to keep them match fit, which is much more important than training full time. Is it possible to make reserve players available for youth matches now?

I am sorry but the dozen-or-so reserve matches aren't enough to keep them match fit, which is much more important than training full time. Is it possible to make reserve players available for youth matches now?

I don't think it is possible but generally reserve leagues have fixtures almost every week i suppose it's different on England though.

If not it's fast to schedule a few matches in between now anyway.

I am sorry but the dozen-or-so reserve matches aren't enough to keep them match fit, which is much more important than training full time. Is it possible to make reserve players available for youth matches now?

You can make them available for reserve matches if they're in the youth team, but not vice versa.

You can make them available for reserve matches if they're in the youth team, but not vice versa.

Then they'll stay in the youth team unless they are good enough to get first team appearances. Players in the reserve team are on the way out, either permanently or on loan.

What about the reverse function, Neil? If I am allotted 3 coaching positions but none in the speciality categories will I be prevented from signing a speciality coach.

Managed to answer my own question, thankfully you can still sign speciality coaches if the board has not set a limit & they are used against my general coach limit.

Now if I could suggests a change to this feature, assuming the updated method is the one that will remain in place I feel that it would be a good idea to include a some additional board interaction that will allow the manager to have greater control of how his backroom team is made up.

As an example if the board set me a limit of 10 coaches made up of 4 general coaches, 2 first team, 2 youth, 1 fitness & 1 GK coach I should have the option to interact with the board to ask that any unused slots are reassigned to another area, I am the manager after all & the board hired me to look after the football side of the business.

I'm also interested to know if there have even been instances of the board allocating slots for youth coaches even when the team has withdrawn from youth leagues & has shut down their youth programmes?

if I understand correctly now there are seperate limits for each staff role ?

and where in the game I can see what those limits for each staff role are for my team ??

Have you also added in a new feature or tweaked rather the players moaning about not getting enough football?

7 games into the league season, only 2 played in europe and I've had at least 6 players say there concerned there not getting enough first team action!

This seems like a cheap fix to me tbh. I'm sure it wasn't a lazy one as SI stated they tested it and such but I hope a better solution is on the way in next major patch or next year. I think the manager should have more control over the type of staff he wants. For instance, you may want to have a more homogenized training group with 10 picked youngsters training with the seniors so you would want to get another senior coach or two with good youth development skills but you cannot since the board arbitrarily assigns certain numbers to certain roles. The example I gave is (as far as I know) becoming more popular with the managing through philosophy, rather than results, thing going on. Even if it's not the point still stands. What if "I" wanted to manage that way.

Perhaps the system could be more flexible in that each role has floors and ceilings in terms of numbers. For instance the board says you should employ 4 youth coaches but under no circumstances are you to go under 3 and for general coaching you can employ up to 3 but cannot go over unless you minus and add from other roles. Still make it strict as it currently stands but maybe add a bit more freedom so you can employ that last 1 or 2 first team/general coach (perhaps coaches who seem to have the ability to offer you sound backroom advice instead of any real training ability) to round off your staff.

This seems like a cheap fix to me tbh. I'm sure it wasn't a lazy one as SI stated they tested it and such but I hope a better solution is on the way in next major patch or next year. I think the manager should have more control over the type of staff he wants. For instance, you may want to have a more homogenized training group with 10 picked youngsters training with the seniors so you would want to get another senior coach or two with good youth development skills but you cannot since the board arbitrarily assigns certain numbers to certain roles. The example I gave is (as far as I know) becoming more popular with the managing through philosophy, rather than results, thing going on. Even if it's not the point still stands. What if "I" wanted to manage that way.

Perhaps the system could be more flexible in that each role has floors and ceilings in terms of numbers. For instance the board says you should employ 4 youth coaches but under no circumstances are you to go under 3 and for general coaching you can employ up to 3 but cannot go over unless you minus and add from other roles. Still make it strict as it currently stands but maybe add a bit more freedom so you can employ that last 1 or 2 first team/general coach (perhaps coaches who seem to have the ability to offer you sound backroom advice instead of any real training ability) to round off your staff.

This is actually a cracking suggestion, well done mate I quite literally couldn't have explained it any better myself, top marks

Basically the 'fix' was to stop an exploit. Before it said you could have say 2 First Team Coaches, 2 Coaches, 1 GK Coach, 1 Fitness Coach and 3 Youth Coaches you could go out and sign 9 normal coaches. Now you have to specifically fill the roles.

What does a 'First Team Coach' give you that a 'Coach' doesn't?

A place to put good all round coaches (like say a motivation expert) that have horrible "Working With Youth" stat that won't affect your youth players. This is based on SFraser's idea of one specialist coach with massive star rating for each category, and filling out the other places with good all-rounders to lower the workloads.

To me this just doesn't make sense. I am sure that a club would be far happier if you hired nine coaches to cover everything you wanted rather than needing to hire 18 to do the exact same job.

Would this not work better if it was either a staff wage budget or the club said "you can have 20 backroom staff" and then you get to choose the spread of staff around the club jobs?

A place to put good all round coaches (like say a motivation expert) that have horrible "Working With Youth" stat that won't affect your youth players. This is based on SFraser's idea of one specialist coach with massive star rating for each category, and filling out the other places with good all-rounders to lower the workloads.

Or you just don't give them youth schedule training.

The board shouldn't be so strict.

Coaching should be split up into only "General Coaching" and "Youth Coaching".

General coaching is for the Assistant, General 'Coaches', Fitness, Goalkeeping and First Team Coaches.

Youth team is for Youth Coaches only.

The board gives the manager x amount for each type, and then it's up to the manager to decide how he splits that.

This system does force everyone to do the same things with their coaches. There are no options at all.

Its one annoying change, not game breaking but annoying.

The boards recommendation is 5 youth team coaches, I have 6. How is that possible when I cant go over the limit on normal coaches?

What does a 'First Team Coach' give you that a 'Coach' doesn't?

It doesn't give you anything. A First Team Coach is restricted to working with the First Team, where a Coach can coach either the First Team or Youth Team.