Some Guy! Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 So, there's this 18 year old German regen called Alvaro Pereira. He's of Portuguese decent and came through the ranks at Bayern Munich. He seems a fairly decent talent, not incredible, but a decent talent none the less. Anyhow, after refusing contract after contract from Bayern he left on a free and is currently a free agent. There is no interest in him whatsoever and yet, apparently he has no interest in joining anyone either. My side is currently flying in Europe and I thought he was worth a pop, but apparently we're not upto his standard. So there he is, just sitting there, waiting for someone to come along, too big for the world of football apparently. Its odd to see youngsters refuse to sign for any clubs, I've already seen some other players retire, despite being real talents, because nobody of the level they wanted offered them a deal. So, let's look at this one way. I could offer this kid as it stands... about ~£1-3k before I'd feel like I was burning money, other clubs that may want him would probably offer about the same, if not more. Now, that's what... £52-156k a year! Now, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but being a young footballer, its unlikely that these kids have done much else apart from football in the recent past and as such don't have that many marketable skills. As such I doubt he'd be able to make £18k a year, let alone £52k in anything but football. So why would this kid sit about and not go to places that would offer him a chance?! For the 18 year olds like Pereira they can go off to University or something, but the 22 year olds who do this surely aren't going to want to go and spend 3-4 years in a University or doing an apprenticeship in order to earn a halfway decent wage. Even then, £52k a year is one hell of a wage, and that's before bonuses (signing on fees, appearance fees etc.). What on Earth else would this kid do to earn this sort of money outside football right now. In fact, another kid I was tracking retired at 22 having failed to find a club in two years despite constant interest from my side. He ended up rejecting £6k a week (the best I could do at the time) in favour of retiring... That's £312k a year before bonuses! Yet he retired to apparently go find work in Georgia (not the state of America) instead. This is madness! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 The likely culprit is Reputation, the jack-of-all-trades in FM. He is probably very ambitious so he wants to play first team football, but he doesn't want to go to a club with less reputation than himself. SI has tried to balance the game so that high-reputation players don't join ridiculously low-level clubs, but the results are that A)The AI clubs can't attract players that have higher reputation than themselves so they can't become better over time, B) We human managers find such players anyway because we're smarter and C) some players will rather retire than play football "below their standing". It works for the most part, but it has some strange results too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 I hope they use some common sense when they fix this in future patches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 The likely culprit is Reputation, the jack-of-all-trades in FM. He is probably very ambitious so he wants to play first team football, but he doesn't want to go to a club with less reputation than himself. SI has tried to balance the game so that high-reputation players don't join ridiculously low-level clubs, but the results are that A)The AI clubs can't attract players that have higher reputation than themselves so they can't become better over time, B) We human managers find such players anyway because we're smarter and C) some players will rather retire than play football "below their standing".It works for the most part, but it has some strange results too. Add youngsters not accepting loans! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorcoo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Maybe he is independently wealthy? He's hanging out in the south of France until Barca, Madrid, or some other big club comes calling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 The rich boy from Dachau eh? Maybe he and every last other one of these kids who do this are all independently wealthy eh? Another kid, Marc McGoldrick, has been looking for a club for 2 years now. Hasn't even had a trial or offer in that time yet still feels he's above my club... Which mighty club did he come from? Chivas USA! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorcoo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Maybe he's decided to play a different sport? Happens here is the USA all the time. Some players in the NFL start in one sport in high school, switch to American football in their last year of high school (18 years old) and never go back to their other sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Code switches from football (or Soccer as Americans like to call it) are rare to say the least. As for Alvaro and McGoldrick, they are still footballers according to the game, they just are refusing to discuss with anyone but the best, who of course don't want them as they're rubbish. As for the others who I'm complaining about (the ones who retired) there's a few 22 year olds from places like Georgia, not exactly a place know for code switches. Anyhow... This is one of the few pathetic things I've seen in the transfer system in recent years. For all the complains about it, its generally quite decent, but this is just terrible to see and was something that has been a major issue in the past too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorcoo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Every game has it's flaws, but FM has given me countless DAYS (literally) worth of enjoyment. For $40, you absolutely cannot beat the return. That's why I am easily able to overlook something like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Its why I do too, but I still feels its ridiculous and should be pointed out so it can be fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Almost 2 years on the kid has decided to come and sign for me for £600 a week... ... ... ...oh yeah, great tactics by the kid and his agent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Every game has it's flaws, but FM has given me countless DAYS (literally) worth of enjoyment. For $40, you absolutely cannot beat the return. That's why I am easily able to overlook something like this. My girlfriend has given me a few years of solid service, doesn't mean I'd overlook it if she stopped using toilet paper after going to the bathroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjaart Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If your girlfriend cost you $40 or less a year, then you should consider yourself lucky. I need to take an extra job just to handle my wifes' need for decorative boxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 if your girlfriend cost you $40 or less a year, then you should consider yourself lucky. I need to take an extra job just to handle my wifes' need for decorative boxes. Magic text to prevent the auto uncapitalisation. NO IT'S NOT THE SAME AS THE OTHER 3931! THIS ONE HAS DUCK EGG BLUE ON IT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayahr Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Still looking for the invisible print Sorry, Some Guy!, nobody will listen to complaints from your side anymore I guess though that post #2 was the best possible explanation we could get and it may well be that the price for this issue to be sorted may be lots of unrealistic transfers the other way around Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubbs Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 This is exactly the sort of thread that is CRYING OUT for someone from SI to join and attempt to explain !! I doubt it though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinji Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I think player's internal reputations should be modelled as an exponential decay over time since they were last in contract. The half life of which would depend on how stubborn and/or arrogant they are. Perhaps your typical pro would have an internal reputation half life of one year. 6 months out of contract and theyd be willing to go to a club only 70% as high rep as they originally wanted. It should be "easy" to implement something like this as it's a simple function applied to the player's rep at the point of considering an offer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Backchat Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 i assumed something like that already happened loads of times i've tried to sign a player on a free and they've refused to discuss terms 6 months down the line at their new team but stuck in the reserves i've been able to sign them on a nominal fee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Still looking for the invisible print Likewise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMeppen Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I think player's internal reputations should be modelled as an exponential decay over time since they were last in contract. The half life of which would depend on how stubborn and/or arrogant they are. Perhaps your typical pro would have an internal reputation half life of one year. 6 months out of contract and theyd be willing to go to a club only 70% as high rep as they originally wanted. It should be "easy" to implement something like this as it's a simple function applied to the player's rep at the point of considering an offer. That actually sounds like a cracking idea to help this issue. I guess part of the bigger problem these days is the need to release a new game each year, in that it stifles being able to make big changes (hence why the ME is tweaked from FM11, rather than something new, which PaulC suggested *might* make FM13, but might not). It's like Pro Evolution Soccer is routinely criticised in the gaming press for being old hat and it is said that the engine needs rewriting - but having to release every year would mean either skipping a year or devoting a second team to program it. I imagine FM is caught in exactly that cycle, so a massive change to how reputation works (or a replacement) is hard to incorporate - but yeah, the fix above sounds great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Still looking for the invisible print Sorry, Some Guy!, nobody will listen to complaints from your side anymore I guess though that post #2 was the best possible explanation we could get and it may well be that the price for this issue to be sorted may be lots of unrealistic transfers the other way around Haha! I guess so... Post two was a good explanation of why this happens now, I do agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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