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End Season Level on Pts, Goal Diff, Goals Scored robbed of 4th spot!


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Playing as Bristol City season 4 in the Premier League we finished the season on 70pts (exactly the same as Arsenal) however going in to the last game of the season we were in 4th place scoring 2 less but conceding 3 less than Arsenal, we won our match 5-3 however Arsenal won 3-0. Now given the fact that now our goal difference is identical the league somehow decided that Arsenal would be placed above ourselves into 4th place.

Here is our records:

Arsenal W20 D10 L8 F78 A50 Pts70

Bristol cW22 D4 L12 F78 A50 Pts70

Bristol City 3 v 0 Arsenal

Arsenal 3 v 0 Bristol City

So how is it that Arsenal finished above ourselves? Surely we should have kept our place above them on the amount of games won as there is nothing in Arsenals favour to be placed above us except for A comes before B!

(FM11.3)

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Premier League Sorting Rules:

1. Points Scored

2. Goal Difference

3. Goal Scored

In previous versions I think I remember seeing a play off game when two teams were dead even at the end. That is, level on points, goal difference, goals scored... The number of wins and results between the teams have no effect here. If you are level or above them on goal scored, then its a bug.

At no point is it decided on alphabetical order.

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It should state the method for settling issues like this under the rules section of the league. I can't remember how the EPL settles things in cases like this but I don't think alphabetical order should come into it, a coin toss comes in at some point. Otherwise everyone would be renaming themselves AAAAAAAAA Manchester United :p.

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Premier League Sorting Rules:

1. Points Scored

2. Goal Difference

3. Goal Scored

In previous versions I think I remember seeing a play off game when two teams were dead even at the end. That is, level on points, goal difference, goals scored... The number of wins and results between the teams have no effect here. If you are level or above them on goal scored, then its a bug.

At no point is it decided on alphabetical order.

Maybe the game does?

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Teams are ranked by total points, then goal difference, and then goals scored. At the end of each season, the club with the most points is crowned champion. If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the winner. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank.

Sounds like if the league place held a European qualification spot then a playoff match should have taken place.

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I don't think that there is a real life rule for this scenario, a decided based on games won (you go 4th) or games lost (Arsenal go 4th) would be the logical option but in the absence of a clear rule from the Premier League/FA (one thing the FA is crap at is planning for all eventualities Liverpool/Everton in 2006, Cardiff in 2008) alphabetical order is the only way FM can cope with this situation.

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I though he said that Arsenal got 4th spot and he got 5th? Or was it he got 4th and they got 3rd?

It actually goes

21. The position of Clubs in the table shall be determined by the number of points scored in that

Season, the Club having scored the highest number of points being at the top of the table and

the Club having scored the lowest number of points being at the bottom.

22. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points their position in the table shall

be determined on goal difference, that is to say, the difference between the total number of

goals scored by and against a Club in League Matches in that Season, and the higher or highest

placed Club shall be the Club with the higher or highest goal difference.

23. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points and have the same goal

difference the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club having scored the most goals in

League Matches in that Season.

24. Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the

same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that

Season they shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table.

See page 97 of the Premier League Handbook (page number 80)

Right click and save the file if you don't want it to open in your browser.

(Open PDF)

I'm sure that if they were equal on all levels and a Cup place was up for grabs they would have to play a playoff

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I'm sure that if they were equal on all levels and a Cup place was up for grabs they would have to play a playoff

The playoff is mentioned on the next page of that handbook:

Play-offs

31.

If at the end of the Season either the League Champions or the Clubs to be relegated or the

question of qualification for other competitions cannot be determined because 2 or more

Clubs are equal on points, goal difference and goals scored, the Clubs concerned shall play off

one or more deciding League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of

which shall be determined by the Board.

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Okay so after checking the messages in my inbox there sat a message stating that we have been awarded £12.8m for our finishing place in the league (which is for 5th place) along with another message informing us that we have qualified for the Euro Cup. I pressed continue and now it has sent my players on Holiday with no play-off scheduled!

I'm sorry but this is very unfair, and as proven above is definately not the way it's supposed to be dealt with. I have taken a screenshot and will post as soon as my internet connection is stable enough.

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I wonder if the game has not triggered the playoff match because both clubs qualified for Europe, not taking into account the different competitions?

Either way, get it reported in the bugs forum. It may be from an older version, but this is a fairly unique situation that can't happen too often.

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What really annoyed me was the fact we only needed 4pts from our last 2 games if Arsenal were to win there final two matches. First up was Birmingham, we were coasting it 2-0 only to lose 3-2 to a 90 min winner, meanwhile Arsenal were 2-1 down only to come back to win 3-2 with an 89 min equaliser and a 92+4 min winner from Bendtner. Something just smells of foul play given the fact that in Arsenals last match they won 3-0 scoring in the 83rd and 90min after we had got our 5th goal in the 80min. It was like we were destined to not qualify given the way the results went and the timing of the goals and then to be cheated out of the dead heat.

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