Game become more like a job and less fun in recent years?

I have bought every version since 94/95 and my favourite is easily 97/98.

I just wanted to give some feedback on this years game (and recent years) and see if anyone agrees with me/disagrees with me.

Firstly, FM2012 is easily the most fun FM experience I have had for about 5 years. Things seem sligtly more streamlined and fun. It is without doubt a great game.

However, I have been very frustrated with the direction the FM series has taken in the last 5 or so years. In short this game seems to become more and more like a job. To really succeed you need to carry out endless menial tasks like setting up detailed training/set pieces/etc etc. You also have to do stupid things like reduce someones training schedule if they are feeling overworked. Its a right mission and detracts from the core of the game which is:

1, Pick your team,

2, Pick your tactics,

3, Buy and sell players

4, have fun.

It seems to me like the guys at FM have forgotten that this game is meant to be fun and not like a second job. I want to unwind with FM at the weekend or on an evening...I dont want to have to carry out 50 boring tasks to be dominant.

The core of the game shouldnt rely on how much boring work you put into it. You shouldnt do better if you are prepared to micromanage every aspect of the club. That is insane (and not realistic either fwiw). You should suceed based on your tactics, player selection, long term strategy and luck. I really dont find it fun to have to shift through a ton of features and need to micro manage each and every one of them to reall do well (I know the assistant can do some of them - although not enough - but he of course isnt very good).

Training is a perfect example of this game really losing its roots. Scouting is another. Lets take training for example. Why cant I tick a box for the assistant just to handle it. So in pre season he gets them working on fitness...so he doesnt tell me in a ******** backroom meeting (another pointless waste of time feature) that player x shoulkd work on dribbling...I dont care about it and just want HIM TO HANDLE IT....why does he even need to tell me. It really is frustrating.

In conclusion I think that this game needs a serious strip back. I know alot of you will disagree from browsing these forums. But I really dont see the attraction in micro managing hundreds of crappy features in the knowledge that if you dont do it then you will have a hard time really doing well. Reward people for doing less things well, rather than at present where people are rewarding for having the commitment to do more things at all.

I don't think all the micromanagement you talk about is really necessary - it doesn't affect results that much, and you can leave it to the assistant.

I do agree the game is too time-consuming, and that's why I don't play it anymore. I think we should have the option to turn off things that will speed the game up. And I wouldn't mind the chairman option so you could buzz through seasons if that's the way you'd like to play it.

I tend to find that at the start of the game you need to do the time consuming stuff (arrange tactics, training regimes for 1st and youth teams, scouting, compiling shortlists, hiring coaches for each category, arranging friendlies, requesting feeder clubs, buying / loaning players etc...). However, once everything is in place I tend to leave most of it and get on with the more interesting stuff.

I suppose part of the problem (if it is a problem) is that SI need to balance the game between those people that want to pick it up, play it and rattle through a season in a few hours; and those that like to tinker with training, formations, search for quality regens, tutor their younger players, handle the press, handle team talks etc... etc... It's probably impossible to balance the two and if you strip it back too much there will be complaints from users that they want to have more control over different aspects of the game.

Football Manager is a responsibility, not a privileged, lol. Just the way I like it, lol. I'm probably only one of few, but I wish there was more micromanagement involves, training was more in depth, and all sorts. I do see your point about things being much simpler in older editions, and there being plenty of joy in that.

This comes up every season and the simple solution is to have the option to tell the assistant manager and coaches to do more of it.

Is there a way to get the assistant to handle all training? I have every possible assistant box ticked but I cant find a way to get him to train my players.

I tend to find that at the start of the game you need to do the time consuming stuff (arrange tactics, training regimes for 1st and youth teams, scouting, compiling shortlists, hiring coaches for each category, arranging friendlies, requesting feeder clubs, buying / loaning players etc...). However, once everything is in place I tend to leave most of it and get on with the more interesting stuff.

I suppose part of the problem (if it is a problem) is that SI need to balance the game between those people that want to pick it up, play it and rattle through a season in a few hours; and those that like to tinker with training, formations, search for quality regens, tutor their younger players, handle the press, handle team talks etc... etc... It's probably impossible to balance the two and if you strip it back too much there will be complaints from users that they want to have more control over different aspects of the game.

The answer is simple: Optional Features! I don't want to do press conferences for example. I just never want to have anything to do with them, don't want to see any, don't want to be reminded that such an abortion of a feature even exists. So while I can send my assistant and mostly forget about it I'm still occasionally reminded of its existence when the assistant feels it necessary to tell the whole world that none of my players are good enough and they all need to be replaced.

What I'd like is the option to just turn the damn things off before I start my game. This way people who for whatever twisted reason do enjoy the PC's get to keep enjoying them while I'm happy because they never make an appearance in my game. Everyone's happy.

The micromanagement is really only a pain when you first start a game, and I agree that it can be a hassle. For me, everytime I start a new game, I have to:

1) Set the Match Detail level for international tournaments I want to scout

2) Subscribe to competitions I want to follow

3) Set the news items I want from each subscription

4) Set-up tutoring relationships

5) Adjust which reserve players are on loan

6) Move players over to Conditioning training (fortunately, I don't have to make this schedule myself now)

7) Create effective standard schedules for my players

8) Cancel early friendlies to avoid injuries

9) Create new friendlies

10) Set up tactics

11) Set Match Preparation

12) Sack useless coaches and physios

13) Hire new coaches and physios

14) Sack useless scouts

15) Hire new scouts

16) Sign free transfers for depth in squad weak spots

17) Set team policy

18) [Continue]

19) Set coach duties

20) Set scouting assignments

21) Team meeting

22) Ignore 30 pointless messages about match preparation

23) Move players from Conditioning to specific training schedules

24) Actually play a friendly

Yeah, that's overkill, but after the first month, I find the game goes rather smoothly, especially now that the number of press conferences has been reduced.

I'm going to have to be truthfull and disagree with the OP.

Every year or even 6 months (or shorter in some cases), computers are becoming better and better and games are becoming better and more realistic/or depth. The same goes for Football Manager. I have always loved football manager games since 1998 when i played a game called Premier Manager 98 on the Playstation. I played Championship Manager 2005 and 2006 and then moved to Football Manager 07. Since then i've been looking forward every year to all the new features that SI bring to us. You say that it's unrealistic? But is it really? SI are trying to make this game as close to the real thing as technology and ideas will let them. There is no way on this earth that a manager can go into club management in the real world and do those simple things you say and be successfull... There just isn't a chance.

I am trying to be polite in this post and i respect that everybody has an opinion, but I do have to ask... Why do you bother playing the latest Football Manager games if you don't want the realism? Why not go back to the old games? I would highly recommend Premier Manager 98 if you do, but over time, things evolve and Football Manager 2012 is by far the greatest manager game available.

I also have one more question... Why shouldn't people who take their time to go through all the features the game has and customise them, but not reap the benefits from them on the pitch? That would make this game boring and by far, too easy. (Some people say it's too easy already, why make it easier?)

There definitely needs to be an option to get assistants to handle training especially, or at least have more pre-sets at the beginning rather than just the general catagory so we can just plonk players in the suitable catagory rather than having to tinker with sliders.

At the moment I just download someone elses pre made training schedules and use them, there are some bizarre quirks I noticed by doing this that I would never had though of myself, like defenders need at least some finishing coaching as it relates to composure! Over complicated and I don't find it interesting or fun. Leave the option to make your own schedules for others who do enjoy it by all means but give those of us that don't another option.

There definitely needs to be an option to get assistants to handle training especially, or at least have more pre-sets at the beginning rather than just the general catagory so we can just plonk players in the suitable catagory rather than having to tinker with sliders.

At the moment I just download someone elses pre made training schedules and use them, there are some bizarre quirks I noticed by doing this that I would never had though of myself, like defenders need at least some finishing coaching as it relates to composure! Over complicated and I don't find it interesting or fun. Leave the option to make your own schedules for others who do enjoy it by all means but give those of us that don't another option.

The current Pre-sets + the new Contioning Pre-Set are sufficient. Untill earlier this year on FM11, I've always used the Pre-Sets and never had a problem. What would be the point in having SI do this all for you, making the customising of Training pointless?

I wonder how much work it would be for SI to introduce optional features...If you could turn off things like press conferences, team talks, player chats etc. the game would be suitable for everyone.

I agree with the OP, but over time I got over it and simply accepted there's no coming back to old style games like CM 01/02. I just made my peace with the fact I had to learn to handle many features I don't like if I'm to enjoy the game.

The current Pre-sets + the new Contioning Pre-Set are sufficient. Untill earlier this year on FM11, I've always used the Pre-Sets and never had a problem. What would be the point in having SI do this all for you, making the customising of Training pointless?

Because of all that has already been said above....

The main point is I don't want to fiddle around moving people from one to the other, reducing training levels when people moan etc. Why would it be such a bad thing to be able to tick a box and not have to bother? Just because you enjoy doing it then I should too?

Because of all that has already been said above....

The main point is I don't want to fiddle around moving people from one to the other, reducing training levels when people moan etc. Why would it be such a bad thing to be able to tick a box and not have to bother? Just because you enjoy doing it then I should too?

You don't even have to do anything at all which is the point i'm making, therefore, no need to have the box. You misunderstood what i meant thats all. I've never had a problem, just told them to shut up lol.

Interesting thread this!

It is obvious that a lot of (game) players really enjoy the micro-management & deep involvement in all control aspects. Others, myself included, agree more with the OP & don't mind spending a lot of time at the outset of taking over as the new manager & set rules, schedules, team formations, settings, training programmes, etc. But then they should at least see me through the whole season, eliminating the need for those dreary team meetings (if a player needs to stop using his weaker foot, for Gods sake deal with it!), no constant reports about players that are clearly not an improvement to those I have, or cost way too much.

I really want to set up for the season & 'jump in' whenever I feel something isn't right, or see my results are suffering & changes are clearly necessary.

Would seriously not want to take away ony options currently available for micro-managers. Would just like to see a less continual 'hands-on' option.

I agree that the game is becoming very time consuming but thats what is happening with all new games.

PCs are improving every day so its naturall that the new games should use all that new capacity.

But I dont agree that is to heavy in micromanagement. Usually what I do depends of the team that Im managing.

If is a big team them theres only little changes to make and usually 30 minutes is more them enough.

If is a small team theres many more things to change and could be more them 2 hours only in the 1st day.

After hitting space for the 1st time it all goes smoothly and fast enough.

You could stop only to attend the matches, ignoring all the crappy news that get in to your email. In the match preparation you could let the AM do everything, I dont think that will make much diference.

So you could only select 1 tactic or 2, make some transfers, rennue some contrats, assign AM to everything he can do and hit space bar.

I believe that the game is very balanced in this aspect. It suits the fans that want to micro everything and the ones that dont care and just want to have fun.

Because of all that has already been said above....

The main point is I don't want to fiddle around moving people from one to the other, reducing training levels when people moan etc. Why would it be such a bad thing to be able to tick a box and not have to bother? Just because you enjoy doing it then I should too?

You dont have to touch training at all, just ignore players that are unhappy with their training, it will never become anything more than a line on their profile, it certainly does not affect any of my players who complain about it. Training is the least fiddly thing in FM, just completely ignore it if you want too, the standard set ups are more than enough to get you through a game, the only reason to mess around with them is if you think you can do a better job.

Hm, you want management part out of a football management game? Making it even optional doesn't sound right to me.

Instead of "just ignore it", the game should provide the option for the assistant, say, to take control of all of this, to avoid the messages. The manager can of course override what the assistant does on occasion but the assistant does all it.

This can be extended to things like scouts, where a "head scout" perhaps sets out the overall scouting strategy (or perhaps the manager gives instructions like "I want to add some experience to the squad" or "I want to add some flexibility to my squad") and the head scout is responsible for assigning scouting instructions for the other scouts. Every now and then a scout will come back with a report on how the strategy is going. Every now and then the scout will interrupt you with a very good player that has been found. And the manager can of course override a scout's instructions if required.

The answer is simple: Optional Features! I don't want to do press conferences for example. I just never want to have anything to do with them' date=' don't want to see any, don't want to be reminded that such an abortion of a feature even exists. So while I can send my assistant and mostly forget about it I'm still occasionally reminded of its existence when the assistant feels it necessary to tell the whole world that none of my players are good enough and they all need to be replaced.

What I'd like is the option to just turn the damn things off before I start my game. This way people who for whatever twisted reason do enjoy the PC's get to keep enjoying them while I'm happy because they never make an appearance in my game. Everyone's happy.[/quote']

i don't know why your post really made me laugh and i totally agree with it %100 as i do with op ( to a degree ) sounds like old school fm or lma would be your type of game op. FM 2006 2007 2008 Were my favourites and by far the best in the series because it was in depth enough to make yourself feel like a genius yet not time consuming like a full time job. this game really is for students or the unemployed of which i have been both recently. i will have a job as of january football coaching and if it becomes full time i just don't think i will have time for FM and in a way i really do feel like it might be a relief i enjoy it less and less every year

There could be a tick-off box in the Team Policy screen leaving the training schedules to the assistant. That wouldn't bother me at all. I am confident that I am better at this than the AI, so I wouldn't use it, but then I have played this game for 17 years so I really should master all the aspects of the game (I don't - I avoid shouts and the TC mentality/strategy in-match adjustments like the plague, for instance). For those that for various reasons won't delve into certain aspects of the game, I don't see why there shouldn't be an option to let the assistant handle training.

The same goes for Tutoring/player interactions, scouting (as has been said above) and contract negotiations, transfers (board does that automatically etc), and all the other parts of the game too.

There are three main parts in this game:

1. Tactics

2. Squad management including transfer dealings, training

3. Team talks including press conferences and player interaction

A new player will struggle getting grips on all of these at once, so it only makes sense that all of them should be available for outsourcing because each individual customer would prioritize one aspect in the beginning and then learn each other aspect one by one later.

This is a non-issue for experienced players. We simply won't tick off certain options. If you tick off all options you will play matches (and follow the assistant's advice - which should be much more specific than they are now... I never bother checking because as I said I avoid TC tactical adjustments, so there could be an "apply" button for all I care) and nothing else, which is what hundreds of thousands of players want.

Instead of "just ignore it", the game should provide the option for the assistant, say, to take control of all of this, to avoid the messages. The manager can of course override what the assistant does on occasion but the assistant does all it.

This can be extended to things like scouts, where a "head scout" perhaps sets out the overall scouting strategy (or perhaps the manager gives instructions like "I want to add some experience to the squad" or "I want to add some flexibility to my squad") and the head scout is responsible for assigning scouting instructions for the other scouts. Every now and then a scout will come back with a report on how the strategy is going. Every now and then the scout will interrupt you with a very good player that has been found. And the manager can of course override a scout's instructions if required.

+100,000,000,000

This SHOULD be included in a patch or at least FM13.

Backroom staff definitely needs a bigger role and they need to be competent at what they do. A friend of mine (who actually doesn't play FM) made a very good comparison recently - he basically said that the backroom staff interaction needs to work similarly to driving aids in a racing simulator for newcomers to be able to get into the game without being frustrated to the point where they stop bothering with it. You should be able to start a game and delegate almost every aspect of micromanagment to your staff and they should be capable of handling it all without completely destroying the team. Then when you feel more competent at it and feel you can improve things by taking over different aspects you can, but you can also leave them in control and still be (at least moderately) successful by mastering the core aspects - tactics and squad management.

What about the xbox version (is there one?) - is this a lighter feel too.

I get particularly frustrated with the player interaction and personally feel that this was the start of a bad trend towards boring micro management. So often in FM2012 a player is concerned and comes to me for a chat. This is just stupid. It should just be presumed that a manager has little chats with players all the time and that, sometimes, players get unhappy. This is what it was like in the older games. I mean what is next? Do we need to decide if we want tea or coffee in the morning or when to have our first dump of the day?

The player interction is so pointless. It makes tne game seem like a terrible RPG. You have to tell this guy your not going to let him move and then sometimes he says "but..." and you say "your not moving" and then he often says "Sorry I will sta then" and he is fine. Not unhappy. He literally changed his mind in 30 seconds by having some BS predefined conversation.

The scout idea someone said earlier is really good. It would be great if you could automate that and automate training and automate player interaction including team meetings and player meetings and tutoring....which are all a joke and SHOULD HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY.

Having said that...I do like fm2012

I have bought every version since 94/95 and my favourite is easily 97/98.

I just wanted to give some feedback on this years game (and recent years) and see if anyone agrees with me/disagrees with me.

Firstly, FM2012 is easily the most fun FM experience I have had for about 5 years. Things seem sligtly more streamlined and fun. It is without doubt a great game.

However, I have been very frustrated with the direction the FM series has taken in the last 5 or so years. In short this game seems to become more and more like a job. To really succeed you need to carry out endless menial tasks like setting up detailed training/set pieces/etc etc. You also have to do stupid things like reduce someones training schedule if they are feeling overworked. Its a right mission and detracts from the core of the game which is:

1, Pick your team,

2, Pick your tactics,

3, Buy and sell players

4, have fun.

It seems to me like the guys at FM have forgotten that this game is meant to be fun and not like a second job. I want to unwind with FM at the weekend or on an evening...I dont want to have to carry out 50 boring tasks to be dominant.

The core of the game shouldnt rely on how much boring work you put into it. You shouldnt do better if you are prepared to micromanage every aspect of the club. That is insane (and not realistic either fwiw). You should suceed based on your tactics, player selection, long term strategy and luck. I really dont find it fun to have to shift through a ton of features and need to micro manage each and every one of them to reall do well (I know the assistant can do some of them - although not enough - but he of course isnt very good).

Training is a perfect example of this game really losing its roots. Scouting is another. Lets take training for example. Why cant I tick a box for the assistant just to handle it. So in pre season he gets them working on fitness...so he doesnt tell me in a ******** backroom meeting (another pointless waste of time feature) that player x shoulkd work on dribbling...I dont care about it and just want HIM TO HANDLE IT....why does he even need to tell me. It really is frustrating.

In conclusion I think that this game needs a serious strip back. I know alot of you will disagree from browsing these forums. But I really dont see the attraction in micro managing hundreds of crappy features in the knowledge that if you dont do it then you will have a hard time really doing well. Reward people for doing less things well, rather than at present where people are rewarding for having the commitment to do more things at all.

If i was you I make this FM job a permie, and treat your normal work as a hobby you get paid for - Sorted

If i was you I make this FM job a permie, and treat your normal work as a hobby you get paid for - Sorted

Hehe, yeh

I only do those 4 steps, still enjoy the game

If you miss the days when FM PC was 'lighter' then you might want to take a look at the Football Manager Handheld games, they're available on iOS (iPhone, iPad and iTouch) and PSP and are designed to be a lighter, faster style of management game - more akin to our earlier products.

PS - FMH 2012 on PSP is out already, the iOS version will be available before christmas

What about the xbox version (is there one?) - is this a lighter feel too.

I get particularly frustrated with the player interaction and personally feel that this was the start of a bad trend towards boring micro management. So often in FM2012 a player is concerned and comes to me for a chat. This is just stupid. It should just be presumed that a manager has little chats with players all the time and that, sometimes, players get unhappy. This is what it was like in the older games. I mean what is next? Do we need to decide if we want tea or coffee in the morning or when to have our first dump of the day?

The player interction is so pointless. It makes tne game seem like a terrible RPG. You have to tell this guy your not going to let him move and then sometimes he says "but..." and you say "your not moving" and then he often says "Sorry I will sta then" and he is fine. Not unhappy. He literally changed his mind in 30 seconds by having some BS predefined conversation.

The scout idea someone said earlier is really good. It would be great if you could automate that and automate training and automate player interaction including team meetings and player meetings and tutoring....which are all a joke and SHOULD HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY.

Having said that...I do like fm2012

If you want a simpler game. Why dont you go for older versions. Or other games, which arent very realistic.

The answer is simple: Optional Features!

+1 t's simple to do with a more intelligent manager assistant, SI must simply work harder on this point (with the bad AI).

Press conferences and agents systems are probably the most useless features in FM history.

From wiki: Football Manager 2012 (abbreviated to Football Manager 12 or FM12) is a football manager simulation video game.

If you want a simpler game. Why dont you go for older versions. Or other games, which arent very realistic.

I disagree with that.

They are multiple ways to make a simulation.

The way of SI (worst strategy mistake of SI/Sega for me) is to make a realistic bureaucracy.

But the players don't want that !!! Any real manager do their job for that.

What do they want ? They want develop efficient tactics for win, opt for the challenge of beautiful football, find by themselves a clever solution against great teams and intelligent coaches (the AI is actually stupid), reproduce a specific philosophy depending on the quality of the players.

Sometimes, i have the feeling the tactical tools are not enough to make a realistic strategy and players moves are sometimes very strange and not realistic. So, if SI want a real simulation, SI must improve the game engine and tactical tools, maybe revolutionize all.

Please, stop to use the excuse of "if you want a no boring game, play PSP"

I disagree with that.

They are multiple ways to make a simulation.

The way of SI (worst strategy mistake of SI/Sega for me) is to make a realistic bureaucracy.But the players don't want that !!! Any real manager do their job for that.

What do they want ? They want develop efficient tactics for win, opt for the challenge of beautiful football, find by themselves a clever solution against great teams and intelligent coaches (the AI is actually stupid), reproduce a specific philosophy depending on the quality of the players.

Sometimes, i have the feeling the tactical tools are not enough to make a realistic strategy and players moves are sometimes very strange and not realistic. So, if SI want a real simulation, SI must improve the game engine and tactical tools, maybe revolutionize all.

Please, stop to use the excuse of "if you want a no boring game, play PSP"

I agree with the bolded part ALOT. I think SI should work on stripping the game back or at least allowing the assistant to handle scouting/training.

Agents are an example of a level of depth which is just pathetic. Its not fun having to deal with agents...I really dont get why they are included.

Still a great game. But I feel like SI feel like they HAVE TO release x amount of new features every year so that people buy this years game. But that is the wrong thing to do. Instead they should strip the game back and work on improving existing features.

It's not a job, it's a lifestyle.