Criticism on FM12

Just thought I'd express some criticism so far on FM12. Please feel free to add or agree or disagree or whatever.

Transfers:

I've said this a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it.

Far too easy to spend WAY over budget by using 48 month deals.

I know, people will say "don't make deals that way" - but I will and always will.

SI/Sega - please make it so that the Board get more involved with your signings.

Something like "Transfer window opens>Board give you budget>Board asks where you need to strengthen team>You say "2 x Defenders", "1 Winger", "1 Striker"" or something like that. If you try to sign someone that is a MC the Board interjects and asks "What are you up to?"

The idea is a simple meeting with the Board to lay out the plans for your signings. The Board might say "Offload 2 players before you make your signings" or something.

I should not be able to go out and buy 14 players on a €60m budget at a cost of €238m.

Playing as Underdogs - or playing against Underdogs

While playing as Underdogs, I usually score with my very first shot on target.

While playing against Underdogs, I usually conceded with their very first shot on target.

This happens WAY too often.

Sometimes I am the Underdog - which makes it ok for me. But I'm sick of scoring with my first shot on target EVERY time.

And I'm sick of team scoring against me with their very first shot on target.

Team Talks against underdogs or when you are the favourite to win is far too impressionable.

Example:

I was winning 3-0 at half time. Coasting to victory.

They came out in the 2nd half and won 4-3!

All I said was "Assertively: Doing Well Keep it UP!".

It has such a negative effect on the team.

Of course they may come out and score 1 or 2 goals - but my team shouldn't fall apart.

Players becoming unhappy at team talk

If you say one thing that Angers a player during a team talk they become unhappy for a long time.

If I'm addressing a Team as a whole - it shouldn't be taken on board as a criticism of individual performance.

I think there should be a "Team Morale" or "Team Response".

If you want to address someone individually the option is there. So they could have a negative reaction to your overall team talk, but that shouldn't give them a "Unh" icon.

I just think the whole thing of a player becoming "unhappy" after you give the team a dressing down after losing a game you should have won is stupid.

The reaction of the player is "Unhappy with team talk" - "Considering his options" - "Unhappy with his managers team talk".

I think perhaps if I gave a bad team talk 2 or more times in a row, I can understand them not being happy. But one misplaced team talk and they go into a slump.

That's all I can think of for now

Sorry it was so long winded. But that's my general thoughts on it so far.

Overall it's ace.

P.s

Leave the Steam b.s. out of it

I don't really get them (other things do annoy me, so hear your pain Eugene) but regarding 1st one; am pretty sure irl no club would pay the full amount upfront in one for a player?? Most deals will be structured installments, no??

I don't really get them (other things do annoy me, so hear your pain Eugene) but regarding 1st one; am pretty sure irl no club would pay the full amount upfront in one for a player?? Most deals will be structured installments, no??

I only know for sure about Italy, but there it seems that all fees are paid using structured payments. Although FM's approach is a bit wrong, the installments are not paid monthly but yearly.

Yes no team pays full amount.

At Sunderalnd - 14 players on €35m budget - at a cost of €135m!

That's not right. Finished 2nd in the league! Too easy.

The board asked me where do I see myself finishing, I said "Mid Table".

With a board interaction into signing players they could turn around and say "You've spent too much"

It's just too easy. Makes the game unrealistic. And that's what we want, a football management simulator.

And it's not.

Just hire scouts > Sign 4* players or above

Sign who you want.

The thing of scoring on the first attempt happens so often that it's really annoying me!

Before anyone starts telling me to start at a lower league club. I have.

My Career Started at Santo Andre, a 3rd Division Club in Brazil. I won the 1st division, Copa Sudamerica, Copa Libertores and Brazil Cup, in just 4 seasons. (promoted twice in those 4 to top division).

I just signed a bunch of players. Sold a bunch of lower rated players. It was like Slave trading! Honestly. Just buy and sell players. Out with low* players and sign high* players.

What I'm saying about Buying and Selling Players is not set in stone. But there are more restrictions in real life.

Haven't experienced the rest, but i agree on the first one. Too easy for human players (and AI) to exploit the 48 month payment plan

Honestly, all I'm doing each transfer window is checking out the players I've scouted that have 4* potential.

I continuously scout them until the transfer window. When it opens, I check out the players with 4* or 4*+ and decide where I need to strengthen my team .

I might see a player with 4.5* or 5* and sign them anyway.

Once in my team I check the * rating of all the other players, and sell off the weak, i.e., anyone under 3.5*

I have never seen a football factory like that at any club?

Nobody ever interferes? I'd like to think that the board might get a bit jostley with me if I've gone way over budget?

The Board often put severe limitations on Liverpool's Rafa Benitez. So much so that the manager was constantly airing his views on the board regularly.

In real life - I think the board have more of a say than we actually know of.

See your point, there should be a huge risk to basically blowing the next 4 years transfer budget in one, but it is easy to buy up a team that will get you in to the Champions League by doing that. Unrealistic slightly.

Should be more a chance of a 'Leeds Utd' happening.

I wonder what the logic behind the "pay over 48 months (4 years) = get 4x the transfer budget is... The whole point of payment plans is to limit the impact on the club's economy at the time of the signing so that they don't go into the red. This doesn't mean that the transfer budget is increased! If the board thinks that £10m is the highest amount the club can safely use on new signings in a season, then the amount the manager can use is 10 millions, not 40.

SI, please remove the 2x,3x and 4x transfer budget cheat - or at least let the board reduce next year's budget with the amount already used that year in last year's transfer deals.

I wonder what the logic behind the "pay over 48 months (4 years) = get 4x the transfer budget is... The whole point of payment plans is to limit the impact on the club's economy at the time of the signing so that they don't go into the red. This doesn't mean that the transfer budget is increased! If the board thinks that £10m is the highest amount the club can safely use on new signings in a season, then the amount the manager can use is 10 millions, not 40.

SI, please remove the 2x,3x and 4x transfer budget cheat - or at least let the board reduce next year's budget with the amount already used that year in last year's transfer deals.

Agreed. I can't understand why such a ridiculous exploit is still in the game.

I wonder what the logic behind the "pay over 48 months (4 years) = get 4x the transfer budget is... The whole point of payment plans is to limit the impact on the club's economy at the time of the signing so that they don't go into the red. This doesn't mean that the transfer budget is increased! If the board thinks that £10m is the highest amount the club can safely use on new signings in a season, then the amount the manager can use is 10 millions, not 40.

SI, please remove the 2x,3x and 4x transfer budget cheat - or at least let the board reduce next year's budget with the amount already used that year in last year's transfer deals.

I think the 2 year one is valid, but agreed about the other two. Certainly needs to be more restriction and budget penalities

Wait!.. are you all saying I can sign a load of good players for WAY over what my allocated budget is, so long as I propose to pay the amount over 48 months?

I've never offered any kind of structured deal whatsoever with any of my signings so far; I just paid upfront

The biggest issue I have with transfers has been one for a few years. I've managed to sign Phil Jones from man u whilst playing as Leeds. The fans and board are unhappy I've signed a player from my rivals.

As a Leeds fan, I can 100% say there isn't a fan in the land who wouldn't be absolutely over the moon that we had managed to steal (at £20m which is a bargain) one of Europes best defenders from our fiercest rivals.

Minor annoyance, but an annoyance non the less.

About the transfers, the only point to improve would be the Board taking into account the whole cost of the transfer when using 24-36-48 month installments.

This "trick" (not a cheat) helps clubs to have less impact on the season budget (like IRL), but the weight of the transfer is taken into account in the finances of the club.

So maybe the Board should issue an alert when we spend 2x the transfer budget thanks to the monthly installments.

Or as someone said, take them into account in following years transfer budgets (even though i would have thought it was already the case...)

Wait!.. are you all saying I can sign a load of good players for WAY over what my allocated budget is, so long as I propose to pay the amount over 48 months?

I've never offered any kind of structured deal whatsoever with any of my signings so far; I just paid upfront

Guess they're lucky you're not the CFO of your club

(kidding)

Transfers:

Seriously, for the next 50 games you play, keep notes. Make a note of how many times you or your opponent score with your first shot. I guarantee it will be less than you think it is.

.

Only had 3 games so far where I've been CLEAR favourites to win

So far:

All the goals and shots/on target are not the final stats - only stats at time of goal

Games in which I am fav:

Score: 2 | 1

Shots/On Target

Me: 18/7 | 2/2 :Them

Score: 0 | 1

Shots/On Target

Me: 2/1 | 1/1 :Them

Score: 0 | 1

Shots/On Target

Me: 7/3 | 3/1 :Them

In all cases so far against a team I am favourites against - they score with every first shot they have on target!

I used to spend just like you regarding 48 month deals, however i think they are financially crippleing in the long run. In this years game im at a smaller club and only look to do 30-48 month deals for youngsters so i can aquire decent ones wothout too much of an impact on my budget. I would be tempted still if an absolute gem of a player turned up and its the only way i could get him. However by paying cash up front i know where i stand financially. There was nothing worse than still paying a decent amount monthly to a club for a player that you no longer had, especially an older player who may have been released.

Someone is going to say "You can't score goals cos of your tactics" - I know someone is

Well league table says it all - most of the goals conceded are from the "underdogs" scoring with their first shot on target.

(I'm arsenal by the way (31 goals and 8 against))

I used to spend just like you regarding 48 month deals, however i think they are financially crippleing...

but it's not crippling enough.

Example:

Budget = €60

Bought = €238m

Sold = €60m

Total = -€118m

Here's the response from the Board after only a few weeks !

Two or three seasons down the line you shouldnt be in such a good financial position though and i doubt your budget will be as good. However i do see that that in the short term the board dont put this into consideration hense your increased budget.

I reckon I won't need to sign anyone for another few seasons anyway.

Rebuilding a team should take more than one transfer window.

Just needs addressing. It's too easy this way.

I'm afraid the default skin is the worst organized one since FM05.

The simple rectangle buttons on the start screen is less less aesthetic than previous editions.

I'm afraid the default skin is the worst organized one since FM05.

The simple rectangle buttons on the start screen is less less aesthetic than previous editions.

Don't get me started on the UI lol. It's a disaster in terms of functionality.

Rooney is still WAY overpowered.

Transfers In theory then yes maybe. But in Practice then no. FM is about enjoyment. If we enjoy the game then SI/Sega are happy because they produce a good game and ultimately sell more copies - pretty simple. FM is a simulation of football management. If FM tried to replicate real life football management then it would be boring, in terms of a PC game. And it would be far too difficult. If FM was like real life football , then most of us would be without a job pretty quick I would imagine.

Team talks I have really enjoyed them this year, with the tone system. Don't try and overcomplicate things. Pre match calm or passionate or sometimes say nothing for a mix up. Half-time and post match calm and passionate again, to offer encouragement and well done. If things are not going well then be assertive, and they always seem to be fired up or motivated. Once you play half a season then you should be pretty familiar to the way it works. Keep it simple. Yes then will be the odd times where players are angry or upset, just like IRL. You cannot please everyone all the time, but this should be quite rare. And if they do get upset or angry with the team talk, then put your arm around then via the individual talk, and they soon perk up!!!

Not asking for a complete reversal. Just toned down a bit.

I feel that the payment structuring should be sorted by the Chairman/Chief Executive - a budget should be set which you can't exceed; you can choose how much you wish to spend on your targets, but the clubs arrange the payment agreements between them. Some transfers should fall through because payment structures can't be agreed. It would be very frustrating, but a lot more realistic.

another thread of players criticize the game's flaw; where nobody from SI need to answer as the fanboys will do the job for them while they sit watching with a big grin on their faces.

I do wonder if there is a common acknowledgement of the flaw of the game ever from all the the players towards the game. None, is it ? That's why FM has been a perfect game since 2005.

I've been bringing this up since FM09.

Clearly they are not sorting it out.

Eugene on your four issues:

1) agreed on the financials, too too easy. Need to be much more restrictive in relation to financial planning

2)Can't say much on the underdog goals, i havent experienced it myself, i rarely concede many shots against them. Be interesting to hear if more people are having this problem though

3)Disagree somewhat with this, cant see much wrong with team talks to be honest, far better than the vague responses of FM11, personally think they are pretty intuitive.

4)Again, havent experienced it, but i will keep an eye out and post back.

I can pretty much sit there and watch my team go up and get 12 shots and 8 on target in the first 30 minutes. They get a quick break away and score with their first shot on target. I can actually tell when it's going to happen. I see it unfurling before my eyes.

BUT on that note, when I am the underdog in a game (as I was in State Championship playing as Sante Andre), I would come up against much bigger opposition. I'd tell the team to relax. They'd go out and win 2-1, and I'd have 3 shots and 2 target. Where the team that were favourites would have 10 shots and 8 on target.

It does go both ways on that note.

Currently for team talks I'm walking on EGG SHELLS at half time with World Class players. "Cautiously - you're playing well keep it up" just so I don't throw away a 3-0 lead.

If I say "Assertively - you're playing well keep it up" it will illicit a response that causes my players to get a Curious Case of Benjamin Button and retract their mental age to 12 year old Sunday footballers - throwing away a 3-0 lead.

After they do throw a 3-0 lead away I say "Aggressively - that was a real Jekyl and Hyde performance from you" they get upset! What did they expect was going to happen? I'd have Champagne and Party Poppers and cake to celebrate losing 4-3 against a team I was beating 3-0 and in the 2nd half the players just forgot how to kick a football.

Then you have grown men getting unhappy that they don't like the Managers team talk and they are "considering their options" - which is an overreaction, or as some would say - throwing your toys out of the pram.

Walking on egg shells. I should be able to be Assertive at half time and have them actually "Keep up their performance".

*Edit - what I'm saying about team talks - is that when you address the Team it shouldn't give an effect to a singular player.

To be fair, you are not supposed to tell the players the logical truth. "Keep up your performance" make the players relax and if they already have the "playing with confidence" morale going, they will be complacent (even if it still says "playing with confidence"). There is a very thin line between those two motivational descriptions. While I agree that logically, you should be able to say keep it up lads when you are comfortably in the lead against a weak team, it is clear that this is a team talk option that's disastrous in FM and therefore it is madness to continue to choose it. When being favourites and leading 3-0 at half-time you need to assertively say that the game is not over yet (guard against complacency), otherwise you will experience what you describe in this thread - every time!

However, your team's complacency is one thing, the other team's seemingly unlimited faith in a possible victory when 0-3 away vs a better team is very unrealistic. Apparently, there is no such thing as giving up for AI teams in FM - and Determination hasn't got anything to do with that.

To be fair, you are not supposed to tell the players the logical truth. "Keep up your performance" make the players relax and if they already have the "playing with confidence" morale going, they will be complacent (even if it still says "playing with confidence"). There is a very thin line between those two motivational descriptions. While I agree that logically, you should be able to say keep it up lads when you are comfortably in the lead against a weak team, it is clear that this is a team talk option that's disastrous in FM and therefore it is madness to continue to choose it. When being favourites and leading 3-0 at half-time you need to assertively say that the game is not over yet (guard against complacency), otherwise you will experience what you describe in this thread - every time!

I'm sorry but that's total hyperbole. I use the 'happy, keep it up' team talk all the time when leading (not every time of course but more often than anything else in this situation). I don't get any kind of disastrous effects from using it.

Options are then:

1. As the manager you can be assertive with your players and tell them to keep up their performance - and they don't.

2. Cautiously "Oh please professional footballers, can you eh *twiddles hair* please keep up that performance pretty please?"

I can pretty much sit there and watch my team go up and get 12 shots and 8 on target in the first 30 minutes. They get a quick break away and score with their first shot on target. I can actually tell when it's going to happen. I see it unfurling before my eyes.

BUT on that note, when I am the underdog in a game (as I was in State Championship playing as Sante Andre), I would come up against much bigger opposition. I'd tell the team to relax. They'd go out and win 2-1, and I'd have 3 shots and 2 target. Where the team that were favourites would have 10 shots and 8 on target.

It does go both ways on that note.

Currently for team talks I'm walking on EGG SHELLS at half time with World Class players. "Cautiously - you're playing well keep it up" just so I don't throw away a 3-0 lead.

If I say "Assertively - you're playing well keep it up" it will illicit a response that causes my players to get a Curious Case of Benjamin Button and retract their mental age to 12 year old Sunday footballers - throwing away a 3-0 lead.

After they do throw a 3-0 lead away I say "Aggressively - that was a real Jekyl and Hyde performance from you" they get upset! What did they expect was going to happen? I'd have Champagne and Party Poppers and cake to celebrate losing 4-3 against a team I was beating 3-0 and in the 2nd half the players just forgot how to kick a football.

Then you have grown men getting unhappy that they don't like the Managers team talk and they are "considering their options" - which is an overreaction, or as some would say - throwing your toys out of the pram.

Walking on egg shells. I should be able to be Assertive at half time and have them actually "Keep up their performance".

*Edit - what I'm saying about team talks - is that when you address the Team it shouldn't give an effect to a singular player.

Just a question, why did you choose assertively?

I half agree with BiggusD, certainly agree on the sense of man management, but i dont feel its as simple or anywhere near as clear cut as "assertively saying guard against complacency otherwise you will get that reaction". If my side are fired up for example, i'm not looking to fire them up anymore into rash tackles, rather cool their heads.

Options are then:

1. As the manager you can be assertive with your players and tell them to keep up their performance - and they don't.

2. Cautiously "Oh please professional footballers, can you eh *twiddles hair* please keep up that performance pretty please?"

this isnt true at all

this isnt true at all

It was a joke.

Just a question, why did you choose assertively?

I half agree with BiggusD, certainly agree on the sense of man management, but i dont feel its as simple or anywhere near as clear cut as "assertively saying guard against complacency otherwise you will get that reaction". If my side are fired up for example, i'm not looking to fire them up anymore into rash tackles, rather cool their heads.

Why do I choose assertively? I don't. I just notice when you do say it things go from Great to Terrible in 45 minutes or less.

I just think it's too much.

It was a joke.

where was the safety smile? :o

Why do I choose assertively? I don't. I just notice when you do say it things go from Great to Terrible in 45 minutes or less.

I just think it's too much.

Ah ok. team talks are fluid so there isnt a set type each time, but generally speaking i only use that if we are doing badly or we are leading but playing half assed, ie sloppy 1-0 lead at home to blackburn

OK here's another one.

If you give your team a team talk and one player gets "Stressed" - has anyone noticed they play the best out of the whole team?

I've noticed it a lot.

Just now - a player got Stressed because I said "Passionately - give the fans their money's worth" - he got stressed.

Scored from tip off - ran the pitch and banged it in in 20 seconds.

where was the safety smile? :o

I thought the "*twiddles hair*" was enough

OK here's another one.

If you give your team a team talk and one player gets "Stressed" - has anyone noticed they play the best out of the whole team?

I hadnt paid too much attention to this until you mentioned it. But ive had players stressed on 3 occaisions, and on two of those occaisions they have had blinders, those two also were pretty determined players. Too much of a small sample, but it was interesting to note. Something i will keep an eye out for

Well the stressed out player got a hat-trick. I'm finding that a bit weird. He's got a 9.7 now.

One thing that really annoys me is the effect from bans in cup matches. Just last night Mario Gomez (I'm managing Bayern) got a yellow card in the German Cup, and was banned from the subsequent semi-final. Instantly his morale plummets to abysmal, and then in the next league match he is "playing without confidence" and misses a couple of sitters..?? I really have a hard time understanding how a ban could affect a player's confidence in the next match. And possibly subsequent ones too.

Seriously.

Again, the Favourite.

Again, they score with their first shot of the game! WTF is going on?

I have 4/3 shots/ontarget. And they have 1/1 ?

Just a question, why did you choose assertively?

I half agree with BiggusD, certainly agree on the sense of man management, but i dont feel its as simple or anywhere near as clear cut as "assertively saying guard against complacency otherwise you will get that reaction". If my side are fired up for example, i'm not looking to fire them up anymore into rash tackles, rather cool their heads.

Yeah when they are fired up you shouldn't warn against complacency because then they aren't complacent. I said when the motivational information say that they are complacent or playing with (over)confidence, you need to be quite harsh with them. Surely, they react very well in the changing room when you say pleased after achieving a good lead vs underdogs, but that reaction leads to complacency and often disaster in the second half - regardless of what the motivational gadget says.... it is a very imprecise tool!

When I warn against complacency after a very good first half, some players are usually angered. If they have the "having a good game" info up and react with anger, I try to tell them that I am pleased with them (usually calmly). If they remain angered, then let them be angered. Usually they don't play well after that so I sub them out.

The alternative is, in my experience, a worse performance from all players in the second half. I choose some bruised egos over losing points.

I'm sorry but that's total hyperbole. I use the 'happy' date=' keep it up' team talk all the time when leading (not every time of course but more often than anything else in this situation). I don't get any kind of disastrous effects from using it.[/quote']

That will of course depend on the team's personality. And the lead needs to be big and against weaker opponents to experience complacency. Against rivals or better opponents, the team will generally not become so complacent, so then it is not necessary. There is a difference between telling a group of competition-loving egomaniacs that you are doing well now that you are outplaying a much more reputed opponent, and telling them that you are doing well now that you are outplaying a bunch of depressed amateurs in wheelchairs.

Leave the Steam b.s. out of it

It will get censored anyway. SI can not have criticism of the crap on their forum. The corporate suits won't like it.

They 'forgot' to mention that...

1. You have to keep the Steam crap on your computer whilst you want to play the game, regardless whether you have the disc.

2. You have to read FAQ's, click click click to be able to play the game if your internet might go down. Bit late once it's down.

3. They censor anything that wants to feedback how crap it is.

...having sweated blood and tears to fight regimes where any dissent is pounded down with what starts as censorship and see close one's pay a higher price, SI have gone well down in my estimation.

Miles is still trying to work out how those lads on a Herrick get to play the game in their down time. Miles is fairly quiet these days. You couldn't shut him up pre-release.

Please keep Crit to the game itself... thanks

Regarding the underdogs scoring from their first shot, I noticed that, too. Sometimes I'm so dominant there's no way I can lose, but they still score from their first shot, just for the sake of it. It's very common for me to win 3-1, 4-1 and such, I always concede that first shot when I'm dominating the game.