Buying a new computer - or a Mac?

I'm buying a new computer and capability to play Football Manager to the full (large database, 3D etc!) is one thing I'm looking for. Just wondering if the game works as well on a Mac or if PCs are better for it?

Other than some Steam/Mac issues I do not believe that you will notice any difference. I would add that unless there is a specific reason why you are considering a Mac based system (Apple brand loyalty really should be a reason) go for a PC, for the cost of a Mac you can put together one heck of a PC system.

I agree with that. My girlfriend works as a video and audio editor and thinks a Mac is better for that (maybe there's Mac-only software?) but I just gawped at the price of a Mac where the technical specs are no better than PCs I'd seen for a third of the price!

yeah... games and general bang for buck power = pc

editing and day to day stuff = mac

but i hate macs... truly and utterly

Worked on both for over 12 years. 10 years ago, Macs were better. 5 years ago, perhaps slightly better. Nowadays, PCs have caught up.

I find Macs very expensive. I can put together a very similar 17 inch laptop for about €2000 LESS than I'd buy the Mac Book Pro 17 inch.

If it's just for football manager, then I'd recommend a PC. If you post what your budget is, I'm sure everyone would chime in with their recommendations.

Chances are your budget is quite high, as you're considering a Mac.

No need to get a Mac unless money is absolutely not an issue. They're very inflexible in the specification and very, very overpriced. I rarely see any reason for anyone to purchase a Mac.

The "better for video editing / graphics" thing is a myth. It was true maybe five years ago but certainly not today.

Yeh I totally agree. I have a computer that I use for editing hi-res images that has only 3gb RAM and a very basic graphics card. It works fine, a bit slow from time to time. Hey that computer has a 2.4ghz dual core processor, it's very old. (I have then entire CS5.5 Master Collection installed on it)

But I also have a laptop with 4gb RAM that I use for editing videos, well used to use, and it worked perfectly fine.

Now I have a laptop with 6gb RAM, i7 (2ghz) processor, mid-range graphics card - and it's very slick, but only cost me €850. And I edit video and hi-res graphics on it no problem - just as good as the two older computers I have.

Of all the PCs I've ever owned I have never had a failure of components. I cannot say the same for the Mac. The hard drive is notorious for crapping out AFTER the warranty has expired. Not just for me, but all my buddies that do graphic design have also confirmed after a number of years it's likely the hard drive will crap out. In a desktop it's pretty simple to swap out and install a new drive. But for a laptop - not so easy, well some are easier than others.

I cannot for the life of me wonder why I'd spend €2500 on an I7 processor with 4gb RAM for a Mac. Where I can buy a laptop that does just as good a job for €850. I'm sure if I had the €2500 (or €2700 with 8gb RAM) to buy a Mac, I could put together a PC that is TWICE as powerful than any Mac out there for the same price.

The most annoying thing with Macs is that people assume (and you would) that because they're so expensive that they use good components. They don't. They use bargain components to maximise the margins and they really do fail more often than they should. That's not to say that PC manufacturers don't do the same thing (Dell PSUs for instance are junk) - but the cost of Macs makes the practice worse.

That and the desktop iMacs are all in one units - so you can't upgrade them yourself, they have a history of poor screens that need to be replaced, and of course because it's one of those daft all in one units you have to send the whole computer back rather than just getting a replacement part yourself.

So no, the only reason to buy a Mac is if you want one - which I have no problem with. I'll just never recommend one because honestly I don't see a reason to.

@ Andy - Look for desktop deals tomorrow as it's black friday. Hotukdeals.com is a good place to get started.

I don't know what your budget is but I would recommend something along these lines (mid-high range, value for money build);

i5 2400

4GB DDR3 RAM

1TB HDD

HD 6850

500W Modular PSU

Intel H67 series motherboard

Optical drive to suit.

If you need to buy a screen as well then you're best looking for some sale deals. If you're not willing / able to build a computer yourself, then you should be looking at sites like PCSpecialist first to come up with a quote, and then seeing if a sale deal can beat it. Sites like PCSpecialist add a lot of money on for screens and OS though, so they might not be the best value depending on what you need.

PC - £1243.13

Mac - £1249.00

I know which system gives me considerably more bang for my buck.

Thanks for the replies. I've never been at all keen on Macs but wanted to be fully informed about its performance for the things I really need a new computer for (like FM!)

That PC is a woefully bad example I see no reason why it should be £1200+. It doesn't even have SLI ffs and it's over £1000

No need to get a Mac unless money is absolutely not an issue. They're very inflexible in the specification and very, very overpriced. I rarely see any reason for anyone to purchase a Mac.

The "better for video editing / graphics" thing is a myth. It was true maybe five years ago but certainly not today.

It wasn't even true five years ago, you have to go back at least 10, maybe 15, years to a time when a Mac was the best (or sometimes only) choice if you were doing a certain type of work - e.g. DTP, graphic design, video/audio editing. And even then it was always more of a software issue than hardware (i.e. The software you needed to do your job was only available on Mac, so the decision was made for you.)

PCs and Macs all run the same software now so the decision to use a Mac or a PC tends to come down to what you are familiar with, or what you colleagues use, or some reason other than absolute necessity. Apple inspires fierce brand loyalty as we are all aware, and there are people out there who really are willing to pay 3 times more than is necessary for a computer because it is an Apple product. I don't understand them, but to each his own.

That PC is a woefully bad example I see no reason why it should be £1200+. It doesn't even have SLI ffs and it's over £1000

That PC is terrible, just build your own its quite simple really. For £999 you can buy i7 processor decent case and PSU combo and a £200 gfx card. Overall my setup cost just under a grand (Although some parts have been replaced) Runs FM like a champ

That PC is terrible, just build your own its quite simple really. For £999 you can buy i7 processor decent case and PSU combo and a £200 gfx card. Overall my setup cost just under a grand (Although some parts have been replaced) Runs FM like a champ

Yea it's an overclocked i5

You can get just the base for £600 and it will run anything well. £800 for a Crossfire / SLI setup.

Unless you can afford 2 top range cards you are better with a single top range card.

In future years, you are still better selling the existing card and buying a new top of the range card than buying a cheaper duplicate to run in crossfire. I really don't think many peopl can afford / require 2 top of the range cards in SLI / xfire

In my opinion at least....

Yea - I don't see the value for money in running two graphics cards either. It was meant to be a way for people who can't afford to buy the top of the range models to run two cheaper cards and get much better performance. Either they realised that would cost them alot of money, or they simply don't know how to code it - but it doesn't work anything to close to that way.

You're nearly always better off with one good card than two because of the bugs in the drivers and the lack of support.

Where's the best place to buy a gaming PC online?

PC specialist can do a custom one for you, also if your interested in Apple and not a student they have special offers on the 25th Nov (Tomorrow)

PC specialist can do a custom one for you, also if your interested in Apple and not a student they have special offers on the 25th Nov (Tomorrow)

Apple for a gaming PC? Oh dear. Don't.

PC specialist can do a custom one for you, also if your interested in Apple and not a student they have special offers on the 25th Nov (Tomorrow)

Apple? Are you serious? I want a gaming PC.

I was notifying everyone of the sale, In case you had a sugar daddy where money is no option. Jesus. If you want a gaming PC build your own, or PC specialist. Google it

I was notifying everyone of the sale, In case you had a sugar daddy where money is no option. Jesus. If you want a gaming PC build your own, or PC specialist. Google it

Less of the attitude please.

O I am sorry, I was trying to be helpful maybe next time I won't bother.

O I am sorry, I was trying to be helpful maybe next time I won't bother.

You were trying to be helpful by suggesting to someone who wants a gaming PC to buy an Apple, then when people said don't do that you say you're trying to be helpful and put on an attitude

If you want to be helpful, actually read what someone is asking for.

I'm a mac user with a Macbook Pro, the game works very well. Also works even better on my iMac

PCs and Macs all run the same software now so the decision to use a Mac or a PC tends to come down to what you are familiar with, or what you colleagues use, or some reason other than absolute necessity.

Not all software is compatible on both though (or rather, certain software is Mac only! Such as Final Cut and Logic Pro in our case.) I think what you're saying is there's alternative software you can use instead.

Well Corel and Xara are PC based...

Unless you are

A. Very rich

or

B. A girl

or

C. Doing graphic design professionally

there is absolutely NO POINT in buying Macs. Especially if you are used to Windows.

Can't put it much more straight than that. You can get a great monitor and MUCH better specs for the same price.

That PC is a woefully bad example I see no reason why it should be £1200+. It doesn't even have SLI ffs and it's over £1000

It is a bit pricey, yes, but that bundle is also a little old (it came out in February this year, a quick Googling tells me).

Special Olympics - MAC vs WINDOWS once again)

There two essential things here:

1)Windows computers are ruling the world and the only two problems with them are:

a) overall decline in quality of notebooks and all-in-one desktops being produced. The main cause - price war between oodles of companies, growing saving on engineering, and lack of production control on the factories in China;

b) Quality of of OS - Windows 7 is much better than Vista, bot nowehere near the stability of XP. Nodoby cares becase (see main clause - 'Windows based computers rule the world).

They are great for gaming and all general office tasks. Many cheap options available.

As for Macs - they have two major benefits:

1) Quality (especially Mac Books Pro). Combined with decline of Sony VAIO line they are the only hi-end portable copmuters with good built+sound+batery+stability (all combined) on the market;

2) Quite simple and relatively stable OS.

You can also sell most of Apple computers in 2 or 3 year for 70-90% of inicial price due to the overall quality of the product.

They are good for day to day tasks for an average user, video editing (we only use IMACs on our TV channel) and utterly useless for gaming. They are quite expensive, especially here.

My older brother - managing director of regional office of one of the leading PC producing corporations got himself latest Mac Book Air. Why? Cause it just works (no gaming apart from chess on-line for him) and goes everything well.

As for specs - most tasks can be done (apart from graphics heavy new games) on machine 3-5 years old computers (relevant for both Mac and Windows machinces), becasue MHz war and general computer evolution got quite slow compared to 90ies and early 00ies, plus X-Boxes and Wiis took over huge part of gaming industry.

Unless you are

A. Very rich

or

B. A girl

or

C. Doing graphic design professionally

there is absolutely NO POINT in buying Macs. Especially if you are used to Windows.

Can't put it much more straight than that. You can get a great monitor and MUCH better specs for the same price.

Graphic design can be done equally as well on a Windows computer. If it was 10 years ago your point may be valid.

Actually all your points really kinda suck. You don't have to be rich to buy a Mac, you don't have to be a girl (not sure what the point there was?) and you can do graphic design on Windows easily.

Most of the software is sold by Adobe who are ruling the coop at the moment, and they sell it for Windows or Mac.

I video edit on my 5 year old laptop running Windows Vista no problem. I edit hi res images on a computer running Windows XP with 3gb RAM and 2ghz dual core processor.

Statements like yours really bring the tone of a conversation down, nonsensical really.

I agree. What alexyfoot posted are just some stupid clichés. There are a lot of points in buying a mac. But you don't need one. But most of the people will tell you that they can't remember the life before they bought a mac.

alexyfoot will be a happy non-mac user forever, but are you alexyfoot or do you have your own mind and preferences? Just go into a shop and try and click and see and ask some people whhich are using both systems.

It is not nonsense. Only mentioned the graphic design to give another reason besides being rich or a girl - I simply can't think of anything else. I am still to see a good reason to switch from Windows to a Mac - the reliability of the computers crap is just marketing nonsense (even for laptops, where there are other manufacturers with high-end products at much cheaper price) for desktop machines - you can get extremely good components yourself if you choose carefully and research at the right places and the mac comes with whatever Mac decides to provide you with.

the reliability of the computers crap is just marketing nonsense (even for laptops, where there are other manufacturers with high-end products at much cheaper price) for desktop machines - you can get extremely good components yourself if you choose carefully and research at the right places and the mac comes with whatever Mac decides to provide you with.

Name several high-end note-books (with prices) that can be compared to Mac Books Pro in ters of engineering now (3 or four years ago top VAIO models were much better, but now...). =)

The thing about Apple is that they don't use high end materials or components - they use the same that everyone else uses. Yes, they have more emphasis on design but if you look around there's plenty of complaints about screen problems, trackpads breaking, keys breaking and so on.

About the same as any other manufacturer to be honest.

Yes - the larger PC companies have very good build quality (although Apple's design is clearly better) - Asus, for example, has very good build quality in its products.

I think OS X has a much better out-of-the-box software suite (anti-trust cases make it hard for Microsoft to bundle anything cool, of course) and its UI is very nice (Microsoft is stuck with traditionalist design as that is what users expect) - but I personally can't imagine why you'd pay that much extra for better design, UI and out-of-the-box software.

Yes - the larger PC companies have very good build quality (although Apple's design is clearly better) - Asus, for example, has very good build quality in its products.

I think OS X has a much better out-of-the-box software suite (anti-trust cases make it hard for Microsoft to bundle anything cool, of course) and its UI is very nice (Microsoft is stuck with traditionalist design as that is what users expect) - but I personally can't imagine why you'd pay that much extra for better design, UI and out-of-the-box software.

Quick question, which companies would you put in that bracket, specifically about laptops (looking to purchase a mid-high range one in the near future, predominantly for FM and some design, possibly also handling most strategy games at a decent level.) I know its a bit vague, just looking to be pointed in broadly the right direction

Cheers

Name several high-end note-books (with prices) that can be compared to Mac Books Pro in ters of engineering now (3 or four years ago top VAIO models were much better, but now...). =)

Here you go:

Apple v Samsung

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Samsung_700G_-_Core_i7_Bluray_Laptop__NP700G7A-S01UK/version.asp

vs

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MD311B/A?select=select&product=MD311B%2FA

The Mac is:

10% better processor

40% worse Video

1/2 the HDD size

Less HDD RPM

1/2 the RAM

slightly better res (1200 vs 1080 height)

Same warranty (warranty extension much more expensive)

+500 pounds

Apple v Alienware

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Alienware_M18x-5613_2nd_Generation_Core_i7_Gaming_Laptop_M18x-5613/version.asp

vs

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MD311B/A?select=select&product=MD311B%2FA

20% better processor

20% worse Video

3/4 the HDD size

Less HDD RPM

same RES

slightly better res (1200 vs 1080 height)

Slightly smaller screen

Same warranty (warranty extension much more expensive)

+200 pounds

Apple v ASUS Lamborghini

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/ASUS_Lamborghini__VX7SX_-_Core_i7-2670QM_8GB_1.5TB_15.6_Win7U_64Bit__NVidi_VX7SX-S1157Z/version.asp

vs

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MD311B/A?select=select&product=MD311B%2FA

10% better processor

30% worse Video

same HDD size

Less HDD RPM

same RES

slightly better res (1200 vs 1080 height)

Bigger screen (there are no 17 inch Lambos that I could find)

Same warranty (warranty extension much more expensive)

+50 pounds

None of these laptops is worse quality than the Pro or at least there is no way in hell anyone can prove that. All of them are less expensive and all of them will provide much better gaming experience due to their much better Graphic Cards. I can also include Toshiba Quosmio but can't be bothered to post that, too.

Feel free to argue with the above.

themadsheep - the ones listed above (including the Qosmio) + HP Elitebooks but they are not for gaming

Btw, out of those only the Samsung is on par with the Mac (since the price difference), everything else is higher build quality (for gaming) than the Mac in my opinion.

But Mac shouldn't even be considered for gaming because of the issues that most games have running on OSX - they either don't or they have all sorts of problems that aren't easily fixed.

Alexyfoot. Really? ASUS and Samsung produce high end notebooks?

These lap-tops are fine for gaming, but hell, they are nowhere near the build quality of MB Pros.

Machetero, build quality on Macbooks is no better than a lot of other high end laptops.

The design is much better than most, but build quality isn't.

Alexyfoot. Really? ASUS and Samsung produce high end notebooks?

...Yes, and the Lambo is better quality because if it is produced to sustain all-day gaming (which the majority of laptops can't), then it is built better than any Mac.

Machetero, build quality on Macbooks is no better than a lot of other high end laptops.

The design is much better than most, but build quality isn't.

That.

I think you confuse design with quality. The Pro's chassis is crap compared to the Alienware and the Lambo.

And talking about design, I am sure you will turn more heads around with the Lambo/Alianware than with the Mac (just look at them three in one screen and you will see why).

@Alexy - you'll turn heads but not in a good way

Depends on the age! For -teens should be ok but...above that :o

Mac for day to day use, PC if your bothered about the 3D engine running @ top wack. Also the fact that you PC is likely to get slower and buggier a lot quicker & easier should be something to think about.

Both Mac and Windows need continuous maintenance. This thing about one being more stable or less of a hassle is just nonsense. I've had friends that opted for Macs based on "user friendliness" until they don't boot up, or something goes horrifically wrong. I'm called up to resolve these issues. I don't mind.

But in 6 years working on a Mac, and 7 years (nearly) on Windows, I've had equal issues with both.

On a Mac, constant rebuilding of preferences, constant rebuilding of PRAM, running disc warrior to restructure hard disk, and having to reseat the RAM from time to time.

On a PC, I run CCleaner to tidy up after uninstalling (I don't know why Windows uninstall doesn't do this?), then I would defrag from time to time. I'd run anti-virus scan once a week etc.

Yes both have issues.

But in terms of usability. The requirements in graphic design packages hasn't increased dramatically over the years. Nearly similar Minimum Specifications for that.

That was one area where Macs had an advantage 10 or 15 years ago - they actually built computers that were very high standard, a lot of RAM, hard disk space, good graphics, and the ability to run graphics at a much more efficient standard.

But nowadays, I see very little difference in PC or Macs. Software specs aren't increase exponentially, but both are kinda on a level playing field.

PCs are better for Gaming. Macs are good at graphics for video and image editing, but so too equally are PCs. In regards to Graphics, in the sense of editing, I'd say Macs are slightly in front. But in terms of gaming - PCs have the market.

And I'm much more comfortable buying a PC as the price is a lot lower than the Mac. The price of the software I need is the same on either platform. Where can I cut costs? Buy a PC for half the price of a Mac.

I'm expecting my older laptop (which is 5 years old) to last another 5. I can set up batch actions on that to process large amount of photos or videos, which is fine for.

My newer laptop, I only got it, but I shall have this for 5 years until I decide or need a better one.

Should Macs start producing top notch quality machines for the price they charge - that will be the only factor in my consideration of buying one.

Quick question, which companies would you put in that bracket, specifically about laptops (looking to purchase a mid-high range one in the near future, predominantly for FM and some design, possibly also handling most strategy games at a decent level.) I know its a bit vague, just looking to be pointed in broadly the right direction

Cheers

Bear in mind this is a year old, that the survey may be commissioned with conflict of interest in mind, that this can vary widely from country to country, that not all makers will make the sort of laptop you are looking for, and that reliability isn't always the best marker: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

It's not easy to find data, sadly.

I'd go by word-of-mouth and specific product reviews, really. Lenovo doesn't score well on that survey but I've heard plenty of praise for their service and warranty, for example. Another example is that every now and then even Dell produce a brilliant laptop with good value for money.

Dell Malaysia is one of the best suppliers in Malaysia (at least it was 4 years ago...), but I was surprised when I came back to the UK as Dell UK was easily one of the worst.

Alexyfoot. Really? ASUS and Samsung produce high end notebooks?

These lap-tops are fine for gaming, but hell, they are nowhere near the build quality of MB Pros.

Asus's build quality is very good. Sure, they don't make pretty laptops like Apple... But that's design, not quality.

Mac for day to day use, PC if your bothered about the 3D engine running @ top wack. Also the fact that you PC is likely to get slower and buggier a lot quicker & easier should be something to think about.

What is about people who use Mac that makes them have to spout unsubstantiated rubbish in order to justify their support?