Team Talk results in exact opposite desired effect

Managing in Brazil at Santo André a small team brought up from Division 3 of Brazil to Division 1.

I come up against, Sao Paulo, Corinthians, Santos, Fluminese and other top Brazilian teams.

The Ass Man recommends that we say "We're underdogs and nobody expects a result".

The reaction of the players is "Seems Relaxed/Happy"

However, I win those games 1-0, 2-1 etc.

The very next game is against a team that just got promoted. The "Match Analysis" says "should comfortably win, they've got enough quality".

The ass man recommends that I say "We're favourites and should win". So I say that. And they look "Motivated"

Then they go out and lose 4-0, 3-1 etc.

Whatever team talk I give them they out and do the exact opposite.

If they are looking motivated then that would tell me your doing the team talk correct but not the tactical side of things during games against weaker opp. I dont think i have experienced what you have althought i have noticed it seems a bit easier to lose a game this time around when you choose the "correct team talk" i lost 3-0 away to Motherwell with my Aberdeen team despite motivating players before the game, and having a huge rant at half time also produced a good result from the team talk, didnt help me on the bloody pitch tho as i conceded another goal and didnt really create a chance, but when i looked back over the match i could see exactly where i had gone wrong tactically.

Team talk are a nice news indeed but they have been developed in way that even an Alpha Centauri habitant would find illogical to understand.

I really hope someone will tweak them within the first patch otherwise we will have a nice feature that works the opposite as intended I agree.

I've totally revamped player roles and I am taking into account Ability rating, player role and duty and assigning them to each player before I start the game.

If I'm playing a team where the odds are stacked against me. Say playing Santos, they will have 12 shots on goal and 9 on target. And I'll have 3 shots and 1 on target, but I'll win 1-0.

Then in games I'm expected to win I'll lose the game in the exact opposite way. Where I'll have 12 and 6 and they'll win 2-0 with 1 shot on target and an OG or something.

It's happened enough times that it's starting to really annoy me.

I'll get screenshots as the new State Championships progress to back up this. But I don't think I'm imagining it at all.

I've totally revamped player roles and I am taking into account Ability rating, player role and duty and assigning them to each player before I start the game.

If I'm playing a team where the odds are stacked against me. Say playing Santos, they will have 12 shots on goal and 9 on target. And I'll have 3 shots and 1 on target, but I'll win 1-0.

Then in games I'm expected to win I'll lose the game in the exact opposite way. Where I'll have 12 and 6 and they'll win 2-0 with 1 shot on target and an OG or something.

It's happened enough times that it's starting to really annoy me.

I'll get screenshots as the new State Championships progress to back up this. But I don't think I'm imagining it at all.

It could be that the group of players you have assembled reacts better under less stressful conditions. It could also be partly due to the bigger teams not respecting your teams ability because of your low reputation, which means you are actually finding more space against the bigger teams, and with you relaxing your players they are better equipped to utilize this space. I really dont think your problem will be team talk specific, but it could be one the contributing factors. Have you tried changing your approach to these smaller games?

There does seem to be a misconception that relaxing your team is the only good pre-match team talk because it shows a green reaction, whereas the rest maybe only show one or two players, without really thinking if relaxing your players is the best way forward for that specific game. Just because you seen a green reaction with the word "relaxed" does not mean you have chosen the best option for that game. This also has lead to people thinking other teams talks do not work because they do not provide an instant green reaction, which is also wrong. BTW Eugene that wasnt really directed at yourself i know thats not the issue your describing really)

Well here's one then.

In a game I was odds on favourites to win I lost. So I replayed it just to see what would happen. It took me 15 reloads to win the game.

Didn't matter what Team Talk I gave. What players I picked (the best, the potentials, the youth, the experienced or combinations of).

Eventually for the last 5 reloads I picked my standard team and gave the standard team talk.

Now I don't really want to hear any of this "that's cheating" malarky. It was an experiment.

There seems to be an imbalance to how the odds of the game and the player reactions and expectations are.

If it were isolated incidents then maybe. But playing against the Division 1 top teams I seem to win with 2 shots on target. But in games where I am expected to win against various teams it takes 10 shots on target and win 1-0. Or they may do what happens to me against bigger teams and have 3 shots and 2 on target and score 2 goals.

It's quite odd.

From my games its not showing anything like that, in 6 years i think i have won against the old firm maybe 3-4 times, they are the only two really big games i will get in a season, i have also really struggled in Europe against big teams, with one exception, away to Athletico Madrid, used the relax team talk and won 2-1, i didnt really put it down to the team talk at all but it could of had more effect than i gave it credit.

It does seem to be a case of you have a good bunch of players for big games, perhaps most have good big game attributes, but perhaps their professionalism is not so great, so against smaller teams they turn off a bit. Maybe even just 1 or 2 key players for your team.

It's certainly odd reactions. And I don't really know what will happen in a game given a team talk. In a game I expect to lose, I win. And I game I expect to win I lose.

Not all the time, but more often than I'd expect.

Right now, I'm playing Santos.

9/3 on shots and on target. Just had my first shot of the game and it went in.

Now at half time I can't say "I'm not happy with your efforts to support attack" or whatever that is. The only option I have is the option to comment on "controlling the midfield".

So frustrating, I can't say I want more efforts to supply to the front men.

The Ass Man recommends that we say "We're underdogs and nobody expects a result".

The reaction of the players is "Seems Relaxed/Happy"

Against much better opposition that team talk seems almost like a win button to me (or at least, "play above your ability" button). I've won a handful of CL games I really shouldn't have just by relaxing my players like that.

Following that, I did a similar experiment which showed that any other team talk just doesn't cut it, i.e. I get trashed like I expected.

Thanks for confirming that. That's what I thought too, and it seems to work against you too when playing teams you're expected to win.

I've had something similar, I didn't think anything of it tbh until now. (first season, with Spurs)

Ok, its pre-season, so may not matter a jot, but i'll explain anyways:

4 games, all away.

1st - Real Madrid.

2nd - Newtown AFC (Welsh Premier)

3rd - Stockport

4th - Leyton Orient

I used my best players in a 4-1-2-2-1 formation (4DC's, 1DMC, 2MC's, 2Wingers and a Striker)

1st game - Team talk was something like, go out there and enjoy/fitness, players seemed relaxed and happy etc (Morale was ok-superb)

1-0 at half time and played like a Sunday league team, 40% Pos, 1 shot - 0 on target. They had like 15 shots, 8 on target and scored one.

Selected something like, may be a friendly but expect to see a performance, won the game 4-1, they had like 25 shots on target, 16 on target, we had 6 shots, 4 on target.

2nd game - Team talk was something like places up for grabs, impress me, players again seemed relaxed and happy. (Morale was Good-Superb)

0-0 at half time, was 50-50 tbh, could go either way. Told them I wanted to see more from them, some reacted badly, most didn't react at all. We drew 1-1.

3rd game - Team talk was exactly like the first, same with morale (apart from Adebeyour spelling, he was low, in the red) walked all over them, won 6-0, and battered them in every department.

4th game - I used the exactly the same scenario as my 2nd game, places for grabs etc... we draw 2-2 and were pretty poor.

Again, this is pre-season and more than likely just coincidence and just unlucky.

Just seems the more relaxed and tell them to enjoy there football they perform like Barcelona, but when I ask to impress, they do the opposite and play like my fat mates on a Sunday

It's half time team talks for me that baffle. I can only seem to get a positive reaction if i'm losing by being aggressive, othwerwise it's all happy smiley people, or just nothing specific noted and the performances after that are just random! Whether or not that's down to a good AI team talk or what, I don't know

The safest way to go in both matches you're expected to win and tight matches seems to be skipping the team talk and give each player an assertive "have faith" (or, as a shortcut, give assertive "have faith" to defenders, mids, and forwards - it just reduces the number of clicks).

Having read this thread i've just taken a bit more notice in performances regarding team talks.

I just played a game where I was closely leading at half time 1-0. I assertively said don't get complacement, to which most of my team (including Bennett who will be mentioned shortly), gained focused / motivation. One player, Orlandi, 'seemed stressed'.

It seems strange then, that almsot all the players that gained focused and motivation, started playing sloppy balls and giving chances away, and Bennett, conceded a sloppy own goal - and it was the stressed Orlandi that scored the winner!

I've found that if I'm leading at half-time, typically 1-0 or 2-0, it's impossible to say something that ensures the players maintain their momentum/focus.

Don't get careless out there; don't think the job is done etc. - Seems motivated, focused, fired-up

You've been playing well, keep it up - Seems calm, relaxed, motivated

I'm aware that tactics obviously play a part here, but nothing seems to work.

With both team talks, the players' performances just drop off, and the opposition absolutely steamroll the second half and run out winners. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's hard to ensure that players actually maintain their focus, despite what their HT reactions are.