Can you actually turn off the attribute panel?

Seen it mentioned on here but I need clarification. If so, this is the greatest feature from SI in recent years.

I think there was a skin last year for FM2011 that did hide all attributes. You should have a look into the skin forum, as this is not a game feature, but something that could be done with a skin.

Seen it mentioned on here but I need clarification. If so, this is the greatest feature from SI in recent years.

Yes you can turn off the attribue panel on some of the main player panels. The default skin has a drop down menu where you can display other things instead of attributes (like bio, stats, and achievements). I know of two other playermade skins that have also kept that feature in, the latest Flex 12 one and the El Torero skin. You can't hide them on the big player panel but all the other info shown on that panel is also available on other screens anyway so you can simply avoid that panel with no worries.

And yes, its the greatest feature from SI in recent years! Another one who likes total fog of war, eh?

Does it remove attributes from other panels or just a player's profile?

Does it remove attributes from other panels or just a player's profile?

You can hide them on the main player info screen, the training screen (by switching to graph), and the player tactical instructions screen (by switching to 'show instructions'), although the latter two don't stick so you have to click on graph/instructions again when switching between screens.

The only attribute panel that can't be switched off is the main one with the hexagonal. But like I said, most of that info is available on other screens anyway (at least on the El Torero skin) so its not really a problem. Deleting the code in the player attributes panel.xml file like we did in FM11 may remove all attributes from that one too (haven't tried it yet though).

Basically we've got more options to avoid seeing attributes in FM12 than we had in FM11, and still having all the other info available.

so you don't want to see stats of any player?

This feature is actually a huge let down from SI. They've done nothing which you couldn't already do before. I thought you could turn off the attributes completely as in completely remove them from every screen, not simply turn them into graphs. I'm tired of digging around in the .xml files of skins to turn them off manually. Major pain.

Come on SI, please get it done in some sort of patch.

any reason why you wouldnt want to see the stats?

any reason why you wouldnt want to see the stats?

A lot of people would say that it's unrealistic to quantify footballers abilities into a set of numbered stats, real managers don't have this to go on and a scouting report would be very unlikely to include such ratings.

This is kind of related but is there a way to have attributes out of 5 instead of out of 20? I feel that I would pay more attention to the performance on the field instead of relying mostly on attributes. I mean, I find it hard to believe that my scouts could this accurately quantify, for example, the aggressiveness of an unknown player after one day of scouting.

I understand that its soccermetrics vs scouting. Some players just prefer playing with only scouting and stats. The thing is that if there was to be any 'silverware edge' in today's soccer, this would be only bigger budgets,more money(moneyball). As brilliant as is using metric systems the fact is that everyone uses them and even smaller teams like apoel from Cyprus.

Not seen any skin like this

but for what i mentioned above imo its somehow an 'unfair save' way to use fm without any metric system. Having attribute data visible, is not forcing you e.g. to transfer players in first transfer window, its still your decision.

I have seen people saying on here claiming that seeing a player's attributes is unrealistic; you don't see Redknapp claiming Modric's passing has increased from 16 to 17 over the course of a season. But the difference is that real managers can physically see the progression happen in matches and in training, something that FMers can't see. So we need attributes to know who to pick, etc. And there are still some hidden attributes after all.

And as for the accuracy of a scouting report: isn't it unrealistic to expect a scout to come back from the other side of the world after one day viewing a youth prospect, and being able to tell how well he will compare to players of a similar position when he reaches his peak, without even seeing the kid play?

This is what I've been looking for to try and make FM a bit more challenging. I want to primarily use a player's stats and scouting reports/watching them play to judge them.

@JimbobWWFC: I think with certain physical stats the argument for hiding IS less clear as these are accurately measurable in real life (stamina, pace etc)

but for most others I would personally prefer the option to hide completely.

May be this mod can help you somehow. It doesn't remove attributes completely but displays them as stars, from one to five. I think it is more realistic and can be even done IRL by scouts.

A lot of people would say that it's unrealistic to quantify footballers abilities into a set of numbered stats, real managers don't have this to go on and a scouting report would be very unlikely to include such ratings.

Real managers get to see the player on the training ground or watch videos of a transfer target.

Each to his own of course so I won't argue with anyone who prefers to play his game this way. But it's in no way realistic that you know nothing of a player apart from what the scouts tell you.

There is also VisualAttributes which looks promising however I haven't tried it yet and don't even know yet if its for FM11 or 12

@Siorac86: What the scouting report tells me about a player is plenty! It often feels like a bit of a cheat to see all your players for a position ordered in a list with star ratings.

If you want to play with complete fog of war (i.e. no visible attributes on any panel), then I recommend putting these 3 files:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yuakzvdtp5myz71

...into the following folder:

C:\Users\YOURNAME\Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2012\skins\YOURSKIN\panels

Examples...

You'll always have the hexagonal as a rough guide...

I've been playing with hidden attributes since FM11. Its not so much about realism, but more about taking the game to the next level of challenge beyond LLM rules. I always found it was too easy to rely on numbers on the screen than what I could see with my own eyes out there on the pitch in 3D. If a player performs well in a match, I pick him based on what I see on the pitch, and not what I see on an atrribute panel.

Its just the way I prefare to play the game now, and I'd never go back to full visible attributes - they had far too much influence on my decision making.

There's still plenty of info without attributes to gage who to buy or who to avoid... scout reports, player history (stats), coach reports, the hexagonal, and above all else, your own eyes. Instead of sending a scout to go watch a player, go scout him yourself!

Once you turn to the dark side, there's no going back

Erimus getting it done again.

Excellent work mate. Is it possible to sort out the recommendation stars on the scouting panels? I'm trying to remove potential/current ability and just rely on the rest of the info in the widget.

Also, that report bottom left of your first screenshot isn't needed.

Erimus getting it done again.

Excellent work mate. Is it possible to sort out the recommendation stars on the scouting panels? I'm trying to remove potential/current ability and just rely on the rest of the info in the widget.

Also, that report bottom left of your first screenshot isn't needed.

I'm not sure how to do that to be honest. Here are the panels I can edit in my skins folder, which one has the recommendation stars in I don't know?

If you manage to remove the PA/CA widget let me know

That particular panel is completely different to last year so the old file I used hasn't worked. Can't seem to find a panel called "player scout reports" or any variation of. It's a shame because I can't start playing the game until I get rid of this panel.

I would love to see a system which hide attributes better but gives you a better look at the player if the player stays at your club long enough. I would love to scout a player for a long time to have a clear view on what he's capable to do. A complete hide of attributes is a little too much for me. The game is build around showing the attributes. There would be no way to judge the level of reserve players when you hide the atrributes. The Scouting system isn't very good for that, because it tells me not enough about the streghens and weaknesses of a player. It would be real nice if the scouting would be enhanced in future versions. Then it would make sense to hide attributes. I would love to set Scouts after one player instead of just sending the around in a country or in the world.

And I would really love the possibility of really having bad luck with buying a player the just overperformes because of a good team around him. How often do you see big teams which buy players, that doesn't add anything to the team. In FM the player will never fail that big because he can judge the player far too good.

A better system of uncovering atribute over time, which depends of the quality of your coaches and scouts could be optimal and would be a real good way to give every player the level of Challenge he wants!

This is silly.. Even I can judge a player from 1 to 10 and you are saying that a top club with scouts can't judge players at all.. wow.

@Erimus1876 - Nice one, that is exactly what I'm after - will try tonight!

As long as we can rank players' attributes mentally, a numerical scale isn't an inaccurate abstraction.

For example, we know that Messi's dribbling is better than Nani's, whose dribbling is better than Lennon's, whose dribbling is better than Wright-Phillips's, whose dribbling is better than Heskey's. Implicitly, we can rank them on a scale where 1 = Heskey and 20 = Messi; mentally, we do this automatically, albeit perhaps without assigning explicit numbers. But this is pretty much what the numbers are for - they represent the ability of a person to judge a player's attributes relative to the best and worst in the world. We know Nani is a good winger on a global scale, so his dribbling will be around 15/20, say.

There are arguments that numbers can be too precise or that they are revealed too easily with no error, but the numerical scale isn't the problem - it's how it is revealed and presented.

There are alternatives to attributes though.

A player who managed an average of 3 succesfull dribbles per game over a season is better at dribbling than one who only manages 2.9 even if his dribbling attribute is lower.

There are alternatives to attributes though.

A player who managed an average of 3 succesfull dribbles per game over a season is better at dribbling than one who only manages 2.9 even if his dribbling attribute is lower.

I know Nani is a better dribbler than Wright-Phillips, even if Wright-Phillips makes more dribbles with his lack of positional sense, liability to panic and love of running into blind alleys.

I've always thought that when you have attribute masking turned on, the attributes should be a range of numbers, instead of an accurate one, which would make more sense (more scouting = narrower ranges) until you have complete knowledge of the player after, say, half a season of watching him. Same could be the case when you sign them - you wouldn't instantly know everything about the player, personality, traits etc for quite a while.

thus, every player should have a 'knowledge', as in, the level of knowledge you as a MANAGER (not club) have of the player. This knowledge should rise with scouting, or length of time owning them, and should diminish over time when you don't own them or scout them (as they develop / diminish in ability).

I've always thought that when you have attribute masking turned on, the attributes should be a range of numbers, instead of an accurate one, which would make more sense (more scouting = narrower ranges) until you have complete knowledge of the player after, say, half a season of watching him. Same could be the case when you sign them - you wouldn't instantly know everything about the player, personality, traits etc for quite a while.

thus, every player should have a 'knowledge', as in, the level of knowledge you as a MANAGER (not club) have of the player. This knowledge should rise with scouting, or length of time owning them, and should diminish over time when you don't own them or scout them (as they develop / diminish in ability).

Thats something I'd like to see as an option one day. Its a good compromise between the extremes of full on attributes, or playing totally blind to them. Plus its a more realistic way of doing things

Not necessarily, as the number of dribbles is affected by the likes of flair and decisions, and possibly pace, acceleration, agility, balance and stamina, too.

I know Nani is a better dribbler than Wright-Phillips, even if Wright-Phillips makes more dribbles with his lack of positional sense, liability to panic and love of running into blind alleys.

You, sir, have a good point and you make it well

Anyone got any further in figuring the scout/coach report issue?

Anyone got any further in figuring the scout/coach report issue?

There's loads of different skins out now so there's a chance one will have the relevant files to mod, but to be honest I've given up on looking for a solution and will just play with them visibile. No visible attributes was the main objective so I'm happy I got that one sorted.

Not necessarily, as the number of dribbles is affected by the likes of flair and decisions, and possibly pace, acceleration, agility, balance and stamina, too.

I know Nani is a better dribbler than Wright-Phillips, even if Wright-Phillips makes more dribbles with his lack of positional sense, liability to panic and love of running into blind alleys.

You've also missed out one of the most important parts - tactics.

You've also missed out one of the most important parts - tactics.

That makes sense, no?

The better your morale, the more likely you are try things that come off. Confidence is a wonderful thing.

actually this is really interesting point. I mean if attributes would change according to form.

I agree, this is one of the FM problems, its attributes system is totally based on the theory of objective potential (cf : Shevchenko, Torres, Diego paradoxes)

Other idea, attributes become subjective and are written by your scout with his own margin of error and according the present form of the player.

I think a revolution about the attributes is very necessary with AI rebuilding even if it needs an huge work. The greatest coaches and statisticians have tried to find a statistic system in order to make objective attributes but but no one has succeeded or they do not want to show their software to the public.

The challenge for SI is to find a way to replace the actual attributes system by an equivalent of the DVD scouts and time spent watching the games by the coaches... not easy to find a better equivalent system without spend too much time to understand the capacity of a player.

actually this is really interesting point. I mean if attributes would change according to form.

The attributes reflect what a player can do at his absolute best.

From game to game, the attributes aren't that accurate anyway - far more comes into effect than just the exact number a player has been given.

The attributes reflect what a player can do at his absolute best.

From game to game, the attributes aren't that accurate anyway - far more comes into effect than just the exact number a player has been given.

Dont agree,

If the player has lets say, 17 pace and 17 finishing, 17 composure, its given that he would score a LOT of goals. even if some other stats of him are rubbish. I dont know in which way AI choose their players, but i dont think it does on the same way we do, and that is attribute based, because i saw some players playing for top teams with rubbish key atributes but big ones in some other areas, which unfortunately dont mean much.

Erimus getting it done again.

Excellent work mate. Is it possible to sort out the recommendation stars on the scouting panels? I'm trying to remove potential/current ability and just rely on the rest of the info in the widget.

Also, that report bottom left of your first screenshot isn't needed.

You could make it so that all the star ratings are the same. So everyone is 1 star or whatever. I'm sure someone on here would be kind ebough to show you.

The attributes reflect what a player can do at his absolute best.

[video=youtube;471nASYcqm4]

The player who scored the third goal in this video has long shots of 1, by your logic he should never be able to do that in a thousand attempts.

I used to play Eastside Hockey Manager in the past. When a player had not been scouted the attributes were showed by letters, like 1-4 showed E, 5-8 showed D, 9-12 showed C, 13-16 showed B and 17-20 showed A. I liked this approach. But it would be ebev greater if the player ability would be described with words, that would be based on the numbers 1-20 in todays categories, that way you don't have to rewrite the programme. Take Tim Cahill as an example: Tim is a born fighter (determination, agression, bravery > 17), he is good in finding goalscoring opportunites (anticipation, of the ball, > 15), excellent with his head and work hard for his teammates (heading, jumping, workrate, teamwork >15, he has average skills and is quite slow (dribbling, first touch, technique, passing >10 and < 15)(acceleration <12, pace < 10) etc. Tim has just peaked (CA =155, PA= 165, age>28) but his experiance makes him still a great player (influence, decision >15).

Wouldn't that be great?

Hmmm very interesting ideas! But this would never happen, because it would only appeal to very few FM players. I mean the people who would want it would be the "hardcore" players from the forum who want more depth and realism in the game. However, this is a small proportion of this forum, yet alone all of the FM consumers! Maybe it could find its way as an optional extra, but i doubt SI would take the risk as it would confuse new/ not as dedicated players and only improve the game for a small proportion of the community! :/

There is already a graphical attributes option. Why not just adjust that to a star system.

1 star = 1-5, 2 stars = 6-10, 3 stars= 11-15, 4 stars = 16-20.

It seems such a simple request!

I have seen people saying on here claiming that seeing a player's attributes is unrealistic; you don't see Redknapp claiming Modric's passing has increased from 16 to 17 over the course of a season. But the difference is that real managers can physically see the progression happen in matches and in training, something that FMers can't see. So we need attributes to know who to pick, etc. And there are still some hidden attributes after all.

And as for the accuracy of a scouting report: isn't it unrealistic to expect a scout to come back from the other side of the world after one day viewing a youth prospect, and being able to tell how well he will compare to players of a similar position when he reaches his peak, without even seeing the kid play?

This is exactly why the "graphical attributes"-option that comes with the game is the most realistic one IMO. Because you can compare a player's different attributes relatively easily and thereby spot his strengths and weaknesses and what type of player he is. But it'll be very hard to really compare two players who are at approximately the same level and so you're going to have to look at their performances.

This is exactly what I want but I can' t download that file because a password is needed. Can anyone can help me? Thanks!

I've made some modifications to FM13 in an attempt to make the game a bit more challenging. These files hides the technical (tech) attributes for all players in the game in all views except when you filter for it and such.

5 files (link only open for 30 days from now)

All files are to be dropped in your Skins/<skin>/panels folder. Overwrite existing files, but back them up for later use.

I'm using Stecklos excellent skin, but should be compatible with any skin.

You can choose to hide the two other groups of attributes (mental, physical) then just copy what I did with the <tech> attributes in the xml-files. I'm to lazy to teach you, but hopeful someone else will if you wish for it enough.

BW: I'd really like to be able to filter out specific attributes, not whole groups of them as I did above, but I can't seem to find a way to do it. Help would be appreciated.

I've made some modifications to FM13 in an attempt to make the game a bit more challenging. These files hides the technical (tech) attributes for all players in the game in all views except when you filter for it and such.

5 files (link only open for 30 days from now)

All files are to be dropped in your Skins/<skin>/panels folder. Overwrite existing files, but back them up for later use.

I'm using Stecklos excellent skin, but should be compatible with any skin.

You can choose to hide the two other groups of attributes (mental, physical) then just copy what I did with the <tech> attributes in the xml-files. I'm to lazy to teach you, but hopeful someone else will if you wish for it enough.

I think playing like this is pretty awesome, and I like the look of it form the pics that Erimus posted. I like how you are going off of performance on the field and just the overal star rating that the scout gives on the far left. But I wish there were some physical attributes shown. Still, out of 5 and in a star rating format, but even with the complete fog of war, once a player is fully scouted, we should be able to know if he is a fast, middle of the road or slow player. Against a start rating out of 5. Whether the guy is strong, middle of the road or weak. Whether the guy is quick footed, etc. Those few types of physical attributes should be visible even in the Fog of War format.

So you basically have the Scout over start rating out of 5 stating whether this guy is a good player, excellent player, average or bad. And then below it have a few physical ratings in the same format as the over opinion by the scout.