A longwinded explanation of an idea for board interaction - you have been warned

I've been thinking for a little while about the way we get appointed as managers in Football Manager and I think I'm about ready to propose a few changes. Apologies in advance if I give anyone tl;dr syndrome. I'll try to be as succinct as possible, but I make no promises. Now might be a good time to make a brew.

So what is the problem?

Let's look at what happens when we load the game up. There are two options. We can either start unemployed, or pick a team. If we pick a team, we are instantly thrown into the hotseat as we are welcomed to the club by the board, told of their expectations, told of the transfer and wage budgets we will get in order to achieve it, and introduced to our staff and players. This is all fine. You'd surely expect this kind of thing to happen. But is this as realistic as possible? I don't believe so.

What am I NOT proposing?

Before I tell you what I would change about this process, I'll just say that I do not want to see the process of getting the game going or of getting stuck into a new job becoming drawn out and laborious. I'm not going to suggest layer upon layer of further processes/messages/tasks etc that make you feel as if you'll never even reach your first friendly.

So go on. What is it your proposing?

Simple really. A more realistic approach to taking control of a club. This could apply at the very start of the game, as well as when negotiating a move to a new club during the course of the game. But I will focus on game start. With FM2011, and continuing with FM12, we have seen a change in terms of interaction. You can now talk directly to players and to your board, and have "real time" conversations. This hasn't been universally welcomed, but I would argue it's the only way to go. I certainly find negotiating player contracts much more fluid and, although you sometimes get nonsensical responses, on the whole it feels like a more realistic process. So why not bring this to bear on the process of being appointed as manager. When you load up the game, you should still be welcome to pick who you want to manage, but instead of automatically being the new manager, there should be a negotiation stage. Allow me to elaborate on why I want this.

Negotiating your new job

When you load up the game, assuming you choose a club to manage rather than start unemployed, you should enter a meeting with your chosen club's board. You are at the stage of having an initial application accepted, and are sat down to thrash out a deal. Let me just say that under no circumstances should talks be allowed to break down. This is a game after all and it would be unfair if people had an idea of a game in mind and then got rejected! But before you accuse me of suggesting a pointless addition given that you'll get the job anyway, I have a clear reason for putting this idea forward. Firstly, for fun and for realism, you should be able to negotiate a contract. What you get offered will depend on your past reputation and, obviously, the club you have chosen. But here's the crux of the matter. Instead of the board just telling you what they expect and what money you'll get to spend, this needs to be something you can discuss. There is nothing more frustrating than being sacked for failing to achieve something that you never believed possible in the first place.

I am certainly not suggesting that this should be a way to guarantee your job. If you want to try and talk the board's expectations down, you should be free to do so. But there must be certain criteria that dictate how open they will be to your ideas. Using myself as an example, I have just taken over at Panathinaikos. The board want me to win the Greek title. I believe, with the squad I have and the budgets on offer, this is a bit much for my first season. I should be able to put this to the board as we negotiate terms. The wage and transfer budgets will, of course, be key aspects of these discussions. The criteria that influence your board's openness to yout suggestions should include your own reputation, the personality of the board members, the stature of the club etc. I'm not arguing that it should be easy to talk the board's expectations down. It should vary. I should at least have the chance to talk this through with the Panathinaikos board. If they disagree, fine. We move forward. It's game start and I'm getting the job anyway. Perhaps, if you're negotiating a job further down the line, things could fall through as that is a slightly different situation.

Sounds like it will stop me just getting stuck in

Well, firstly I would argue that just because you have this new feature on game start, doesn't mean you're not still getting stuck in. It's just that negotiating with your board is the first feature of the game you get stuck into. More importantly, though, as I said earlier, I don't want to see this become some kind of unwieldy behemoth of a feature. Contract negotiations with players, even if you don't like them, don't generally drag on. It's not a cloying process. It's usually over fairly quickly and adds to the realism of the game. Reading through my post probably makes the feature sound more laborious than it would actually be. It would be a simple back and forth, with options listed for you to trigger certain issues (eg. finances, expectations, contract). I'd leave it to SI to figure out exactly how to implement it! Unless they wanted my input, which seems unlikely.

Finally, do you really believe this would make the game more realistic AND more fun?

I'll deal with fun first, as it can be a contentious issue. How much fun certain aspects of the game are is a subjective thing. Some people hate the new approach to negotiating. I, and plenty of others, think it's a wonderful and refreshing change. The fact that, when I start a new game, or when I'm discussing a new job with my potential new employers, I'd have the chance to have a proper dialogue with them sounds very fun to me. This is where realism comes in. I have never seen them as mutually exclusive. I believe the game's continued success is mainly down to its ability to achieve such high levels of realism. That's why we find it fun. It immerses us in a realistic-feeling experience, and we love it! All I'm proposing is a new feature to add to this realism. I think, by doing this, it would increase the levels of fun I get from the game. I can't be the only one who likes this idea, can I?

Thanks for reading. I know it was a long one.

Definitely worth the read. I can see why some might not like it, but for me its another way of immersion. I love the idea

I've always wanted this when you're offered jobs in the game. Once a club has gotten permission to speak to you, rather than just offering you the job with the proposed wage and transfer budgets, it should be a real time interaction. What the board expects, where they see the club over 1-5 years etc, why they want you to take the role etc.

At first I didn't like this idea but once I read through the thread properly I think this could really add something to the game. This could also help you move to a bigger club than is currently possible for example in my save I managed in New Zealand and won a lot of low rep competitions. During my time there I managed to beat Santos convincingly in the World Club Cup. Now I am not saying I should be able to move from winning New Zealand's top competition to the EPL but at the time I could only move to the conference. If the real time interaction was good enough I might have been able to talk my way in to a league two job.

I could however see how some people would find this annoying but I think I would like it as long as it was implemented well enough.

Very well thought out thread and I am surprised it has not brought up more conversation as I have read people posting about job interviews several times before.

I suspect it's not generated more conversation because this forum is a much duller place than it used to be and a long, detailed post doesn't get people thinking quite like a three-sentence rant about Steam does.

It's true that I can see people not liking the idea. I've tried to outline as clearly as possible what I think it would add and I do think it is essential that something is done in this area for the sake of realism (and fun!).

I suspect it's not generated more conversation because this forum is a much duller place than it used to be and a long, detailed post doesn't get people thinking quite like a three-sentence rant about Steam does.

It's true that I can see people not liking the idea. I've tried to outline as clearly as possible what I think it would add and I do think it is essential that something is done in this area for the sake of realism (and fun!).

But yes, thats one area (apart from working on the AI and ME) that i would like to see some work on.

Its all about the execution, if done well, this could a great addition to the game

I like the idea.

i love this idea im all for realism an feel this could work really well an add a lot of realism to the game an would hopully stop the "i got sacked because west brom wanted me to win the league in the first season" kind of threads.

I would like this to be implemented. Hopefully if SI come around to this idea they will take their time in making sure it is done correctly.

The only concern I have for this not being able to achieve is that there would have to be different coding for the first contract negotiation (where negotiations wont collapse) to other job negotiations (where they can break down). I'm not a computer wizz so I don't know how much work would be needed for this or what are the chances of the coding conflicting.

The Welsh Lad - That is a legitimate concern and a good point. However, I reckon that SI wouldn't find it too difficult to code the situation differently. When you consider the various complex features they've had to code in the past, I'm sure they could work it out. I have faith!

True Mike.

I can't help it always been a glass half empty man. I've always thought that it's the best way to be then when things work out it will be more special and when things dont work out, well I expected it.

How about you apply for the job, then the board receives your application and ask you questions about your expectations, if you are going to break the bank, adopt a defensive strategy, etc.; make it feel like it's an actual interview. This would be in the form of the press conferences screen that we already have implemented. Then, in one or two days, they get back to you with a contract, transfer budget, and wage budget. All of this depended on the board interaction.

If it is your first game, then you automatically get the job, but if you are switching in 2019 from Brighton to Newcastle, then you might not get the job depending on your interview.

Now, since the interview already includes your expectations, then choosing the board expectations at the beginning becomes obsolete.

Brilliantly written OP and a brilliant idea well thought out... the only issue with it I could find is that fnding the formula for getting the best deal would become easy after a while unless some randomness was added in for longevity of the feature....

Also, I'm sure it could be implemented easily and could even be a tick-box feature for those who do not like...

this is the first suggestion i've seen in a long while that actually should and could be introduced....

Hopefully, a forward thinking SI member will see this and give it some actual thought...

It's a great idea and definitely something that would add to the game.

Imagine you go into a new job application whilst at another club, you discuss with the board but can't come to an agreement that matches both your expectations of the club and you don't receive the job. Your current club finds out about this talk and then also sacks you, leaving you jobless.

It would also be a great way to outline your philosophy for the club and if the club agree with this, they will provide suitable funds in doing so. For example you go to a club and tell them your looking to build up from youth and will focus all your efforts on signing and producing youth. However, your ambitious board wants instant results and will not agree with your philosopy - contract talks break down.

Other philosophies could include;

- 'I want to reap instant success and hope that you will provide me with the right funds to achieve this.' BOARD EXPECTS RESULTS.

- 'I need time to work my round this club and see what I've got to work with.' SOME BOARDS WILL AGREE, OTHERS WILL BE DISAPPOINTED WITH YOUR LACK OF PHILOSOPY.

- 'I want to use the great facilities here and will be looking to producing my own youth.' BOARD MAY LIKE HG PLAYERS, OTHER BOARDS WANT SUCCESS.

- 'I am willing to adapt my style of management to whatever philosophy you have in mind.' BOARD SUGGESTS A PHILOSOPHY BASED ON FACILITIES, FUNDS ETC. IT'S HARDER TO SACK YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY THE BOARD. THESE TYPE OF BOARDS MAY INTERFERE WITH TRANSFERS.

That's my input!

It's a great idea and definitely something that would add to the game.

Imagine you go into a new job application whilst at another club, you discuss with the board but can't come to an agreement that matches both your expectations of the club and you don't receive the job. Your current club finds out about this talk and then also sacks you, leaving you jobless.

It would also be a great way to outline your philosophy for the club and if the club agree with this, they will provide suitable funds in doing so. For example you go to a club and tell them your looking to build up from youth and will focus all your efforts on signing and producing youth. However, your ambitious board wants instant results and will not agree with your philosopy - contract talks break down.

Other philosophies could include;

- 'I want to reap instant success and hope that you will provide me with the right funds to achieve this.' BOARD EXPECTS RESULTS.

- 'I need time to work my round this club and see what I've got to work with.' SOME BOARDS WILL AGREE, OTHERS WILL BE DISAPPOINTED WITH YOUR LACK OF PHILOSOPY.

- 'I want to use the great facilities here and will be looking to producing my own youth.' BOARD MAY LIKE HG PLAYERS, OTHER BOARDS WANT SUCCESS.

- 'I am willing to adapt my style of management to whatever philosophy you have in mind.' BOARD SUGGESTS A PHILOSOPHY BASED ON FACILITIES, FUNDS ETC. IT'S HARDER TO SACK YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY THE BOARD. THESE TYPE OF BOARDS MAY INTERFERE WITH TRANSFERS.

That's my input!

I've had an idea of having board types. When you choose a club, it will tell you their board's personality. Interfering, controlling, financially responsible, ambitious, etc. If you have a controlling board, the board would help you with key signings and the like. Interfering board are likely to go over your head and sell your players. Ambitious boards would likely to have a better response toward stadium or facilities expansions. Financially responsible boards are less likely to give you a higher transfer budget.

This could also affect how your board interactions go. You could revamp it completely and organize it the way teem meetings are.

i really dislike this idea i think it would be boring

I've had an idea of having board types. When you choose a club, it will tell you their board's personality. Interfering, controlling, financially responsible, ambitious, etc. If you have a controlling board, the board would help you with key signings and the like. Interfering board are likely to go over your head and sell your players. Ambitious boards would likely to have a better response toward stadium or facilities expansions. Financially responsible boards are less likely to give you a higher transfer budget.

This could also affect how your board interactions go. You could revamp it completely and organize it the way teem meetings are. I don't agree exactly how the OP puts it, but board interactions definitely need to be improved upon. I mean, I would like to have a little more control over finances and other things. I wish I could request to change the club ticket prices after maybe two years at the club. Maybe after ten years, be able to set the ticket prices completely. Not direct control since most managers don't do that, but to have the ability to suggest financial changes.

I agree with the first part of your suggestion but not being able to change ticket prices, that is unrealistic imo.

Your first idea however, links in with my suggestion of having board philosophies...or even chairman traits. This could affect the whole way in which you play the game and approach your board, which imo is lacking atm.

i really dislike this idea i think it would be boring

Do you prefer the board interaction the way it is now?

I REALLY like this idea, i think it could be great.

AS LONG AS there are enough different board attributes (At least some of which are hidden) and options (For you as an applying manager) for there not to be a known formular for getting the job/getting extra money etc.

I would love to be able to be ambitious and it work with one club....choose the same options with a club in a financially insecure situation and get told to GET LOST in probably nicer terms, and them to give me either a worse offer (Non negotiable) or to just tell me i am not the right man for the job.

I quite like the idea and wouldn't run away crying if it were ever implemented. However, to some extent doesn't the game already give you the opportunity to do something similar? You start the game and the board give you their expectations, but you are then able to interact with the board and ask them for things such as an increase in transfer budget, or wages. I know that getting your board to agree to any of this can be nigh on impossible, and that forcing the issue could get you sacked, but it's still an option..... So, would a simpler way to implement this idea be to simply slightly redress the board interaction feature. You could add a conversation field called something like 'concerns' and have options to say things like "I'm concerned the squad is weaker than I thought when I joined - please increase transfer revenue/wage revenue/lower league expectations/etc" or "I wanted to bring to your attention that it will take me a season longer than planned to bring the success I desire to this club". I know those exact options are clunky, but hopefully you get the idea I'm trying to get across - that you could go to the board if you were concerned about their support, or felt you were underachieving against their initial expectations and try to rectify the situation without either having to issue an ultimatum in the current board interaction system (and probably get sacked) or just wait till the end of the season and get sacked.

Must say I quite like the OP's ideas. In addition to the OP (and bigredletterday), perhaps another -similar- feature could be introduced for board interactions when one gets an offer from another club? E.g. Martin Jol who at the beginning of last season got offered a job at Fulham, negotiated with the Ajax board to get more transfer budget (iirc). Perhaps a neat feature would be to be able to address the board when an offer from another club comes in, possible reactions/outcomes being extra investments, wage or transfer budget etc (or a big f* you and **** of, of course).

I agree with the first part of your suggestion but not being able to change ticket prices, that is unrealistic imo.

Your first idea however, links in with my suggestion of having board philosophies...or even chairman traits. This could affect the whole way in which you play the game and approach your board, which imo is lacking atm.

On my holiday saves, the ticket prices for teams vary. Why is this not possible in your team? I mean, not change the finances, but to suggest a change to them.

How about you apply for the job, then the board receives your application and ask you questions about your expectations, if you are going to break the bank, adopt a defensive strategy, etc.; make it feel like it's an actual interview. This would be in the form of the press conferences screen that we already have implemented. Then, in one or two days, they get back to you with a contract, transfer budget, and wage budget. All of this depended on the board interaction.

If it is your first game, then you automatically get the job, but if you are switching in 2019 from Brighton to Newcastle, then you might not get the job depending on your interview.

Now, since the interview already includes your expectations, then choosing the board expectations at the beginning becomes obsolete.

I certainly like your thinking here. Only downside I can see is that, by having to go away and wait for the board to come back to you, you're prolonging the period before you can get started with a save.

It's a great idea and definitely something that would add to the game.

Imagine you go into a new job application whilst at another club, you discuss with the board but can't come to an agreement that matches both your expectations of the club and you don't receive the job. Your current club finds out about this talk and then also sacks you, leaving you jobless.

It would also be a great way to outline your philosophy for the club and if the club agree with this, they will provide suitable funds in doing so. For example you go to a club and tell them your looking to build up from youth and will focus all your efforts on signing and producing youth. However, your ambitious board wants instant results and will not agree with your philosopy - contract talks break down.

Other philosophies could include;

- 'I want to reap instant success and hope that you will provide me with the right funds to achieve this.' BOARD EXPECTS RESULTS.

- 'I need time to work my round this club and see what I've got to work with.' SOME BOARDS WILL AGREE, OTHERS WILL BE DISAPPOINTED WITH YOUR LACK OF PHILOSOPY.

- 'I want to use the great facilities here and will be looking to producing my own youth.' BOARD MAY LIKE HG PLAYERS, OTHER BOARDS WANT SUCCESS.

- 'I am willing to adapt my style of management to whatever philosophy you have in mind.' BOARD SUGGESTS A PHILOSOPHY BASED ON FACILITIES, FUNDS ETC. IT'S HARDER TO SACK YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO BY THE BOARD. THESE TYPE OF BOARDS MAY INTERFERE WITH TRANSFERS.

That's my input!

I definitely like the idea of telling the board what your aims and your philosophy would be. In fact, if you're unemployed or already at a club, this could even be part of your application for a new job. That would make it more of an application than simply declaring that you wanted the job. But I do also see it as something that should be open to discussion with the board as you negotiate. I should state, though, that I don't want to completely remove the concept of boards having their own expectations, because that would be unrealistic. I just want it to be open to negotiation.

I've had an idea of having board types. When you choose a club, it will tell you their board's personality. Interfering, controlling, financially responsible, ambitious, etc. If you have a controlling board, the board would help you with key signings and the like. Interfering board are likely to go over your head and sell your players. Ambitious boards would likely to have a better response toward stadium or facilities expansions. Financially responsible boards are less likely to give you a higher transfer budget.

This could also affect how your board interactions go. You could revamp it completely and organize it the way teem meetings are. I don't agree exactly how the OP puts it, but board interactions definitely need to be improved upon. I mean, I would like to have a little more control over finances and other things. I wish I could request to change the club ticket prices after maybe two years at the club. Maybe after ten years, be able to set the ticket prices completely. Not direct control since most managers don't do that, but to have the ability to suggest financial changes.

I'm sorry but I don't imagine ticket prices are ever really a concern of a manager. Maybe at low levels where the club is small and the manager has a say in the overall running of the club, but this would be rare. Ticket prices are for the board to set (or whomever they employ to set such things).

i really dislike this idea i think it would be boring

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but seeing as I strenuously tried to argue my position for it, perhaps you could state what you would find boring about it? After all, we already have the facility to talk directly to the board and to players. Does this bore you? I'll hold my hand up and admit that press conferences bore the pants off me. But that's because of how they work rather than the fact that press conferences are an automatically boring idea. Press conferences, if they could make them work better and not be so predictable and repetitive, would be great. And negotiating terms with the board before taking a job would be great. It would also be a realistic addition. If implemented well, it needn't be boring.

I quite like the idea and wouldn't run away crying if it were ever implemented. However, to some extent doesn't the game already give you the opportunity to do something similar? You start the game and the board give you their expectations, but you are then able to interact with the board and ask them for things such as an increase in transfer budget, or wages. I know that getting your board to agree to any of this can be nigh on impossible, and that forcing the issue could get you sacked, but it's still an option..... So, would a simpler way to implement this idea be to simply slightly redress the board interaction feature. You could add a conversation field called something like 'concerns' and have options to say things like "I'm concerned the squad is weaker than I thought when I joined - please increase transfer revenue/wage revenue/lower league expectations/etc" or "I wanted to bring to your attention that it will take me a season longer than planned to bring the success I desire to this club". I know those exact options are clunky, but hopefully you get the idea I'm trying to get across - that you could go to the board if you were concerned about their support, or felt you were underachieving against their initial expectations and try to rectify the situation without either having to issue an ultimatum in the current board interaction system (and probably get sacked) or just wait till the end of the season and get sacked.

You're right that the game does offer you something a little similar. And I do note that you can talk up expectation when you take a job, thus acquiring more spending money in doing so. But what you can't do is have a proper, real-time conversation with the board about expectations. I'll reiterate, I don't want it to be a guarantee that you could talk the board's expectations down. I doubt you'd have much success trying it with Man Utd, for example. But my game with Panathinaikos is a good example of where I do feel I should have been given the chance to tell the board it might be a bit too soon to win the title given the squad I'm inheriting and the relative strength of Olympiakos.

Wonderful post and I totally agree with Mike's points. I would like to see this part added to the game in the future and I think it will not be very hard on SI's part to implement it. They just have to expand on the current format of "expectation & transfer, salary budget". As I see it, this new potential addition will be "one of those 800 new features" of FM 2013...

What I would like is a negotiation about wage budgets and expectations and so on; and then giving you the final decision whether or not you'll accept the terms. This way, you can walk away from a job when you feel the board is unrealistic or too unambitious for your tastes, but the game will not punish you by rejecting your application in the negotiation, as this would be less fun I think.

I love the idea.

Personally i'd always imagined it was something that SI would get around to eventually, just as they did with contract negotiations with players.

Put me in the "love this idea" camp. Some great ideas on this thread and I hope SI try to make something like this work

I'm in the "love this idea" camp too... One idea that might work as an extension would be linking it to upgrading facilities, and making demands of your own in you feel you're in a strong position - only agreeing to join if certain training/youth facilities are improved, or an extra allowance for coaching staff, for example.

Please be in FM13.

I like this idea too

I think this is a feature that eventually will be put in. The sooner the better imho.

Would definitely be a good idea, and the more I think about it the more I think it is needed rather than simply being useful.

The beauty of it is that if a few people don't like the idea, they can just accept the boards initial offer.

True Mike.

I can't help it always been a glass half empty man. I've always thought that it's the best way to be then when things work out it will be more special and when things dont work out, well I expected it.

Technically a glass is never half empty or full as the other half contains air.....lol couldn't help myself....but I think this is a great idea

I support this completely.

What add a totally new dimension to the game.

Real discussions based on the history of the club, the owners, the fans, the expectations, the players, the budgets, the local press and so on. So much to explore.

In theory, you may be a Newcastle fan for eg and decide you want to manage Newcastle....BUT, at the begining of the game, at the 'interview' stage, you may well be completely put off by what old Derek and Mike have to say.

You may then decide to manage a different club and re-apply at Newcastle when/if Ashley and co have left.

Or you may just go with the flow and take the hot seat but all the while knowing their targets.

A football manager's job is a very stressful place to be especially these days, we have it far to easy in FM in some ways.

Of course, all of this could be altered to the desire of the player too.

Very interesting topic.