Goals/own goals

Absolutely ridiculous occurance in my current match. Ball gets crossed in from a freekick, 1 of my guys gets his head to it, it heads towards goal, the keeper dives, and gets a hand to it, but it goes in anyway. What happens? It goes down as an own goal by the keeper. Absolutely stupid beyond belief. There's no way that should be an own goal. If it'd hit the post and then come off him, fair enough, but it very clearly didn't as it was right in the middle of the goal. Not impressed (I doubt my striker who got his head on the end of the freekick is happy either). It's bad enough when goals get scored when a player turns his back (why would he do that?) and it just hits him and goes in, but for a goal like that to go down as an own goal is nothing short of farcical.

Got video?

If the shot was off target, going over or towards the post, the keeper can still hit it and it will go in. General rule is if it's off target and another player touches it and it goes in it's an og.

happens all the time and its the most annoying thing about fm. yesterday, darren bent had a shot for me and its going into the net no question. the keeper got his fingers to it but couldnt stop it going in and it gos down as an own goal. why??? its on target and no way did the keeper have any control of the ball.

It was heading straight for the goal.

Looks like the guy in the yellow shirt hit it. Then the keeper tried to push it out but didn't?

Quite frankly whoever hit it is kind of irrelevant, because the fact of the matter is the ball was going on target, you can clearly see that as it goes into the middle of the goal, yet the keeper dives, can't keep it out, but he gets credited with the own goal.

But if the defender hit it towards goal - yeh it's the defenders og. But if the keeper puts a hand on it and it goes in it's his og.

Sorry, but no. In real life if you see a defender head the ball towards his own goal, but the keeper gets a hand to it, it goes down as the defenders own goal. There's absolutely NO reason for it to go down as the keepers own goal here. None at all. Same goes for any goal where the keeper gets a hand to it, in real life it doesn't go down as the keepers own goal, and generally the same is true of the game, if someone knocks it towards goal and the keeper gets a hand to it, it doesn't go down as an own goal by the keeper.

No it doesn't. It's the last person that touched it.

The cross came in, off target. It hit the defender, goes straight in it's defenders og. If the keeper tries to keep it out and it goes in it's his og.

No. Simple as that. No. So in real life then every cross that comes in, unless it's got the right trajectory to be on target, if it hits someone and the keeper gets a hand to it and it goes in, even if the 1st touch after the cross is on target, it should go down as an own goal by the keeper. No. I've seen the same thing happen in the game, cross comes in, cross is off target (unsurprisingly), the ball hits someone, the keeper gets a hand to it, and it goes in, but the goal isn't given as an OG by the keeper. Sorry, but there is absolutely no way it should go down as an own goal by the keeper. You've seen the video, and if you're telling me that the keeper getting a hand to it means it goes down as his own goal because he got the last touch, then quite frankly I think that's rubbish (no offence). For me there's absolutely no sensible, common sense, logical, acceptable explanation for it going down as an own goal by the keeper. Simple as that. If it goes in off the defender with no touch by the keeper, yes, own goal by the defender, but absolutely no way on this planet or any other should what you saw in the video go down as an own goal by the keeper.

I can't say anything else other than you're interpretation is incorrect.

Sometimes it's a header directed back at the keeper. And he slips and palms it into his own goal.

If there's far too many keeper OGs, then yeh it's a problem. But I have not noticed any increase in keeper own goals?

In this instance, it may be the Keeper OG, hard to tell from video. But looks like a Keeper Og to me.

I don't see how my interpretation can be incorrect. Tell me, if that exact goal occurred in real life, identical in every way to the video you saw, who do you think the goal would be given to? I'm absolutely 150% certain it'd be an own goal by the defender.

No way you could be 150% certain. Impossible.

Anyway, I'd have given it to the keeper too. Hit the defender. Hit the keeper. Deflections into the goal. Keeper hit it last. His og.

No way is that an OG by the keeper. The shot is straight at the goal, even if the keeper gets a touch on it it isn't even altering the trajectory of the ball. Even if something like this would for some utterly ridiculous reason be initially given as a keeper OG in reality the striker would claim it and get it ten times out of ten. And if it was the defender getting his head to it it would be him getting the OG.

Edit: for reference:

To help resolve these kinds of issues, FIFA published guidelines in April 1997 classifying an own goal as when a player plays the ball directly into his own net or when he redirects an opponent's shot, cross or pass into his own goal. Shots that are on target (i.e. goal-bound) and touch a defender or rebound from the goal frame and bounce off a defender or goalkeeper are not considered as own goals.

Holger Osieck's team of highly-experienced football experts have today issued the following standard as a guide for future situations that may involve a questionable goal as happened during the 2002 tournament in Korea/Japan:

If a goal-bound shot accidentally bounces off a team-mate into the opponent's goal, the goal will be awarded to the player who struck the ball towards the target in the first place.

If a goal-bound shot is intentionally redirected into the opponent's net, the goal will be credited to the player whose action produced the change of direction.

If a shot is going wide and is then deflected or redirected into the opponent's goal by a team-mate, this player will of course be credited with the goal.

Outdated a bit of course, but there have hardly been wholesale changes to how own goals are awarded since.

Im with Stevvy on this one. I have noticed an annoying rise in keeper og's. Eugene, it is not the case that just because the keeper hit it last it means its his og. Only his OG if he deflects it in when it wasnt going in anyway. Otherwise half the goals we see in modern football would be credited as keeper OGs

Sorry but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if the keeper hit it last. The ball hit the defender, the ball was going towards the goal, the keeper touched it, defender's own goal. As I said, had the ball hit the post and then the keeper, then yes, keepers own goal. That didn't happen. Defenders own goal. Strange though that I've seen goals where a ball has been hit hard across goal, it's hit the defender, keeper has tried to keep it out but failed, and it's gone down as the defenders own goal, as it should. I'm not trying to get into an argument, and I'm not having a go at you, but I really absolutely 100% believe there's absolutely no way on this planet or any other that the goal you saw in the video should go down as the keepers own goal. Seen it in real life too, where the ball has hit a defender, the keeper has got a hand to it, hasn't kept it out, and it's gone down as the defenders own goal. Like I said, don't want to get into an argument with you as I'm not 100% so the last thing I need is an argument, but there's no way you'll be able to convince me that the decision to give the keeper the own goal was correct.

No sorry. If a player from the opposition team shoots and the keeper tips it and it goes in, it's a goal. But only if that shot was on target. If it's off target then it's a keeper og.

In this case it was a cross. It hit the defender. It bounced off them. Hit the keeper and went in. It's a keeper OG.

It hit the keeper last. It was a keeper og.

It's plain as day.

No sorry. If a player from the opposition team shoots and the keeper tips it and it goes in, it's a goal. But only if that shot was on target. If it's off target then it's a keeper og.

In this case it was a cross. It hit the defender. It bounced off them. Hit the keeper and went in. It's a keeper OG.

It hit the keeper last. It was a keeper og.

It's plain as day.

No it's not. Read the guidelines above for example. The keeper isn't directing it towards the goal, it's going in regardless. Doesn't matter who it hits last. For anyone to be awarded with an OG their involvement has to be a decisive factor in the goal being scored. The keeper in this case has nothing to do with it at all except from being unable to pull off an out of this world save.

Of course it matters. If it hit another defender who would be credited with the OG?

The other defender.

It hit the keeper. It's a keeper og.

Nope. As I said, I've seen crosses drilled across the box (so off target), it hit a defender, the keeper get a touch to it, not keep it out, and it's gone down as the defenders own goal. Using your theory we should see many many keeper own goals in the game, and real life. How many times have we seen in real life a player shoot or cross, it's going wide, it hits a defender, the keeper gets a hand to it but can't keep it out, and it be given as an own goal by the keeper. I'll tell you. None. Because it'd never go down as an own goal by the keeper. It's absolutely wrong for the goal shown in the video to be given as an own goal by the keeper. Absolutely wrong.

Of course it matters. If it hit another defender who would be credited with the OG?

The other defender.

If the defender isn't altering the path of the ball towards the goal or stopping the GK from catching it then no, the first one will be credited with an OG.

It hit the keeper. It's a keeper og.

There's no such rule. Point me to one if you think there is. Or show me examples of anything like this being awarded as an OG. There aren't any.

I've seen keepers palm the ball into the goal when trying to divert it wide. And it goes in. It's a keeper og.

If the defender isn't altering the path of the ball towards the goal or stopping the GK from catching it then no' date=' the first one will be credited with an OG.

There's no such rule. Point me to one if you think there is. Or show me examples of anything like this being awarded as an OG. There aren't any.[/quote']

If it hits two defenders and goes in. It's the 2nd defenders og. Doesn't matter if it was going in already or not.

You point me to the rule.

Eugene, go and find me a goal in real life where an opposition player has shot or crossed the ball, it's going off target, it's hit a defender, the keeper has got a hand to it, he hasn't kept it out, and it's gone down as a keepers own goal. Go find me 1. It has to be as similar as possible to what happened in the video.

I already posted FIFA guidelines above. You can read further references here or here, specifically: Shots that are on target (i.e. goal-bound) and touch a defender or rebound from the goal frame and bounce off a defender or goalkeeper are not considered as own goals.

There's nothing in the rules or guidelines anywhere that says it makes a difference who the ball hits last. If the ball is goalbound, the player directing it there is getting the goal, or in this instance, the OG.

Eugene, go and find me a goal in real life where an opposition player has shot or crossed the ball, it's going off target, it's hit a defender, the keeper has got a hand to it, he hasn't kept it out, and it's gone down as a keepers own goal. Go find me 1. It has to be as similar as possible to what happened in the video.

You find me one. It's your argument.

I already posted FIFA guidelines above. You can read further references here or here' date=' specifically: [i']Shots that are on target (i.e. goal-bound) and touch a defender or rebound from the goal frame and bounce off a defender or goalkeeper are not considered as own goals.

[/i]

There's nothing in the rules or guidelines anywhere that says it makes a difference who the ball hits last. If the ball is goalbound, the player directing it there is getting the goal, or in this instance, the OG.

You just threw in "in this instance" - making up your own rule.

The ball was crossed. It hit a defender and went goal bound. The keeper then tried to keep it out. Failed. It went in.

Nothing in the video suggests that the keeper only touched the ball and it went in anyway. In that video it could be that keeper caught the ball landed and it fell from their hand.

I'm not saying that's what happened. But it could have.

How you can construe from that video that the keeper was not at fault for the OG is beyond me.

Again, are there a lot of cases for Keeper OGs in the game? More examples please?

You find me one. It's your argument.

No. You're the 1 that's going on about it being clear as day that it's a keepers OG, so you find me a real life example where the same thing has happened. You're the 1 who's going against everyone else. You're the 1 who thinks goals like that should be own goals by the keeper. You find a video. You find a video that proves to me that you're right and I'm wrong. I don't have to find a video to prove that I'm right and you're wrong. Do you know why? Because everyone other than you knows there's absolutely no reason for that to go down as the keepers own goal. You're the only 1 who believes it should be an own goal by the keeper. You find a video proving you're right and I'm wrong. Good luck. I'll come back later and see if you've got 1.

You just threw in "in this instance" - making up your own rule.

No. It's the same rule. It doesn't have to specify which team the player directing the ball plays for - it's common sense. You don't award an OG to a player that's not even helping it towards the goal - similarly you don't take away a goal from a player if the ball happens to slightly brush someone on it's way in. As I said, common sense. And it's pretty clear from the video that the ball isn't getting caught under the the keeper and stopping on the goal line before going in, if you can't see that then sorry, but you really need to get your eyes checked.

But you just pushed in your own interpretation of the rule by saying "in this instance".

It was an og by the keeper. Whether he swung his leg and sliced it or swung his arm and sliced it.

There was no direct shot at goal. It hit a defender and went towards goal. If the keeper hits it it's an og.

Plain as day.

Agree to disagree.

Sorry guys but the OP is right, this does happen. I had a fantastic free kick scored but it took a slight touch and went down as an OG (cant recall if off the keeper or the wall but deflection was minimal). Its not great but its a minor gripe in what for me is an awesome version of FM.

**EDIT. Just watched the video - this was an own goal in this case but the point in general is valid.

***2nd EDIT. Just watched my "free kick" goal. It wasnt a free kick and there was a huge deflection - the camera angle / player positioning fooled me! So although nothing 100% contradicts the OP I am thinking now of only 1 or two expamples that prove the point. :-/

There was no direct shot at goal. It hit a defender and went towards goal. If the keeper hits it it's an og.

The ball is going towards the goal, hence someone's directing it there. If it's the defender, then it's his OG. If it's the striker getting his head on it, it will be him claiming the goal. Why you think the keepers involvement in the first case is more worthy of being credited with an OG than the other is really beyond me - the involvement itself is identical afterall.

Frankly, if it is that plain as day, surely you could quote examples of something like this happening in reality? You can't because there aren't any. No sane person in the dubious goal panel would be giving that goal as a keeper OG. The player getting credited with an OG has to be somehow responsible for the ball going in, it really is as simple as that. You're clearly not accepting that so I don't think there's any point to take this any further anyway.

You cannot clearly see who is responsible for pushing the ball into the goal. Simple as that.

Seriously, show me more in game examples of the goalkeeper scoring an og in the game - and I will admit it's a problem.

I have not seen 1 og by the goalkeeper in FM12 yet.

From time to time a keeper will score an og. And it happens so irregularly that asking me to cite specific instances is not fair.

If it happens often FM, then show me. I'll admit it's a problem if it is.

I'm not the one claiming it's a huge issue in the game (although I've had plenty of incorrectly given og-s in FM11 which uses the same match engine), just saying that in the above example it is incorrectly given. The ball is flying directly towards the goal at pace. The keeper is clearly not pushing it in - you can see it, watch the video again, in HD and full screen - it's a simple case of him failing to keep it out and probably getting a slight touch on it.

You cannot clearly see who is responsible for pushing the ball into the goal. Simple as that.

please visit ophthalmologist and afterwords read the following article: When Own Goals Don't Really Count (FIFA Magazine, April 1997, http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=71928.html)

Clearly some people can't take the fact that a keeper sometimes pushes the ball into their net.

This is on instance. I've asked several times to provide more. And nobody has.

<shrugs>

No, you think this is 1 instance. You're assuming it. You're guessing. Nothing more. I stand by my comments earlier that it should not have gone down as an own goal by the keeper. That's all I'm going to say on the matter however, because quite clearly you have 1 view (which pretty much everyone disagrees with) and I have another view (which pretty much everyone agrees with). Therefore, I'm going to say we'll agree to disagree, and leave it at that, and I'll no doubt come across you in other threads in the future, where hopefully we can agree on whatever is being discussed in the thread.

I think that sometimes the keeper scores an og. You provided one instance of it.

I don't see how this is an issue. Sometimes it's given to the keeper.

Sometimes the keeper is credited with the og.

Again, for the 5th time, show me more instances of the GK being credited an og unfairly and I'll retract.

Honestly, this one instance doesn't throw up a massive concern in the game. It happens. GK score OGs sometimes.

I'm not fully convinced that you fully understand. You seem to be talking about the issue generally, as though I'm saying it happens often, which I'm not saying. What I'm saying, very simply, is THAT goal should not have been given as an own goal by the keeper. We both have our own opinions on whether it should be or not, but I'm not saying the number of own goals credited to the keeper is an issue. I'm saying that 1 goal that I showed you was the issue, because it was a wrong decision as far as me and basically everyone else is concerned. The number of own goals given to keepers isn't an issue, and at no point have I even thought about trying to suggest that. Yes, keepers sometimes score own goals, usually ones where for example it hits the bar/post, comes back and goes in off their head or back. Fine, no problem, those should go down as own goals by the keeper, but as I've said, the goal I showed you, as far as seemingly pretty much everyone is concerned, should not have been given as an own goal by the keeper. Just to emphasise, I'm NOT saying the number of own goals by the keeper is an issue in the game. I've never even hinted at that, let alone actually come out and said "the number of own goals scored by keepers in the game is an issue".

Yes, keepers sometimes score own goals, usually ones where for example it hits the bar/post, comes back and goes in off their head or back.

Shots that are on target (i.e. goal-bound) and touch a defender or rebound from the goal frame and bounce off a defender or goalkeeper are not considered as own goals.

The video evidence is inconclusive.

As if it's an og or not... sometimes the wrong call is made in the game. offsides when not offside, offside goals stand... etc.

Mistakes happen in the game. As in real life.

But I don't think this is a mistake. Looks clearly like the GK scored an og - that's my view on it.

I appreciate others don't agree.

The video evidence is inconclusive.

As if it's an og or not... sometimes the wrong call is made in the game. offsides when not offside, offside goals stand... etc.

Mistakes happen in the game. As in real life.

But I don't think this is a mistake. Looks clearly like the GK scored an og - that's my view on it.

I appreciate others don't agree.

it looks like nobody agrees with you.

you can add my name to the list.

by the sounds of it, if the keep touches the ball, you think it's his own goal. it's a wonder keepers don't have 20 own goals a season.

it looks like nobody agrees with you.

you can add my name to the list.

by the sounds of it, if the keep touches the ball, you think it's his own goal. it's a wonder keepers don't have 20 own goals a season.

it looks like nobody agrees with you.

you can add my name to the list.

by the sounds of it, if the keep touches the ball, you think it's his own goal. it's a wonder keepers don't have 20 own goals a season.

How often does it bounce off a defender and then glance a goalkeeper?

Answer that.

How often does it bounce off a defender and then glance a goalkeeper?

Answer that.

how often does the keeper try to keep the ball out of his net and is unable to? answer that, since that is what we're talking about.

and i think you need to brush up on the rules of what is an own goal and what is not. govnar1 was nice enough to provide a link further up the page.

His links are inconclusive.

And rules? there are no rules in football.. only laws.

And I know them all. Inside out. It was a goalkeeper og.

How often does it bounce off a defender and then glance a goalkeeper?

Answer that.

I'm really baffled as to to why you think it matters? Two scenarios: a) a striker takes a shot in the 6 yard box, the keeper manages a touch on it but can't keep it out. b) player takes a shot, it's going wide but a defender deflects it goalbound at the exact same angle as in the first scenario and the keeper gets the exact same touch on it. By your logic in scenario A the goal can be awarded to the striker while B is a goalkeeper OG. Why? His involvement is the same in both cases. He's not responsible in either scenarios, not directly at least.

in Scenario B it is the goalkeepers og.

It's plain. He hit it last.

If the striker hits it goal bound, and it hits the defender then it's the strikers goal.

If the striker hits it and it is going wide but hits a defender it's an og.

If it is crossed in and a defender hits it goal bound... it's not a shot at goal... if it hits the goalkeeper it's an og for the goal keeper.

Actually' date=' if you read the FIFA guidelines I posted above, even those incidents shouldn't be counted as own goals.

[i']Shots that are on target (i.e. goal-bound) and touch a defender or rebound from the goal frame and bounce off a defender or goalkeeper are not considered as own goals. [/i]

full text: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/mencompwc/51/97/89/fs-301_06a_fwc-own-goal.pdf

Where in that video does it bounce off the goalkeeper? Where?

It is clear to me that the keeper attempted to clear the ball and failed. Not deflected or bounced off him at all.

His links are inconclusive.

And rules? there are no rules in football.. only laws.

And I know them all. Inside out. It was a goalkeeper og.

You really are an impossible case.

in Scenario B it is the goalkeepers og.

It's plain. He hit it last.

If the striker hits it and it is going wide but hits a defender it's an og.

If it is crossed in and a defender hits it goal bound... it's not a shot at goal... if it hits the goalkeeper it's an og for the goal keeper.

The irony of you accusing me of misinterpreting the guidelines then making up a bunch of your own to support your view of it...