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fatboyjohnmulhern
27-01-2008, 05:15
Do people like the blobs (little round people when playing a match)or do you turn it back to old style with just the writing...OR do you want a LMA or FIFA style match to watch? Personally i quite like the blobs but i am interested to hear what you thihnk!

fatboyjohnmulhern
27-01-2008, 05:15
Do people like the blobs (little round people when playing a match)or do you turn it back to old style with just the writing...OR do you want a LMA or FIFA style match to watch? Personally i quite like the blobs but i am interested to hear what you thihnk!

dafuge
27-01-2008, 05:19
The blobs, without a doubt.

Ched
27-01-2008, 05:25
Definitely blobs - theres no 3d engine anywhere near good enough yet, and the text left too much to the imagination (although the one-on-one bug probably wouldn't get noticed in that case lol).

SWaRFeGa
27-01-2008, 05:33
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:
Do people like the blobs (little round people when playing a match)or do you turn it back to old style with just the writing...OR do you want a LMA or FIFA style match to watch? Personally i quite like the blobs but i am interested to hear what you thihnk! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Initially I thought you were talking about your period, but now I totally agree. Blobs are the way forward. Couldn't play the game without em.

Gundo
27-01-2008, 05:39
It's the blobs for me. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

George Graham
27-01-2008, 05:49
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
Definitely blobs - theres no 3d engine anywhere near good enough yet, and the text left too much to the imagination (although the one-on-one bug probably wouldn't get noticed in that case lol). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course there is- theres no question that both the Fifa and the PES engines can display a realstic game, and one that shows the subtleties that the 2D in FM lacks.

What is in question is tying in decent match engine AI into the 3D, but from a technical standpoint the graphical processing power and 3D engines themselves are up to the job and arguably have been for a few years.

As for whether we should have it in FM- Id like to see it but feel that SI would be better devoting time to other areas.

Ched
27-01-2008, 05:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
Definitely blobs - theres no 3d engine anywhere near good enough yet, and the text left too much to the imagination (although the one-on-one bug probably wouldn't get noticed in that case lol). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course there is- theres no question that both the Fifa and the PES engines can display a realstic game, and one that shows the subtleties that the 2D in FM lacks.

What is in question is tying in decent match engine AI into the 3D, but from a technical standpoint the graphical processing power and 3D engines themselves are up to the job and arguably have been for a few years.

As for whether we should have it in FM- Id like to see it but feel that SI would be better devoting time to other areas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry i meant to make this distinction - yes the ability to render something in 3d exists (obviously) but whether that can incorporate the diversity that the 2d engine can is more the point - just have an AI vs AI match on pro evo and it shows the limitations...

Katarian
27-01-2008, 06:32
I like the blobs. A 3D engine would enable you to see fouls and penalties, but a top down view shows you a lot more about your players and the balls movement around the pitch. Watching the commentary only gives a very poor idea of what is happening, it often bares no resemblance to the action on the pitch.

LFC Lloydy
27-01-2008, 06:42
From what I can tell on these forums quite a lot of people use commentary only. Personally though I think it is a lot better, not just in regards to enjoyment of the match but also in the way it can help with tactics.

Also, Ched is right, a good enough 3d engine is not yet available and I see little point in implemeting a sub standard one.

Ben James Smith
27-01-2008, 07:16
i liked the blobs but have recently switched to text only because it speeds the game up

Bongo-Bongo
27-01-2008, 07:30
2D might not look pretty, but it's by far the best tool for the job at the moment.

As has already been pointed out, the best 3D engines are not capable of presenting a realistic game at present so it would be stupid to change from an engine, that whilst not perfect, is currently the best around at presenting a realistic game of football.

Also, as Katarian pointed out, for a tactical game, the top down engine allows us far greater insight into how our tactics are working. A move to 3D could restrict our view of the pitch, making tactical decisions much more diffivult to make.

BenArsenal
27-01-2008, 08:45
I like the blobs, yes. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

EA Sports used 3D for their matches as far back as 2000. It was thouroughly crap.

LFCrouchinho#15
27-01-2008, 08:53
Blobs without a doubt.

A 3D match engine would probably look too unrealistic, and don't get me started on just commentary. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

littlebeagle
27-01-2008, 09:11
Commentary only, I'm of the belief nothing is wrong with my tactic or the match engine, only that I need better players, watching the blobs may ruin that train of thought.

B. Stinson
27-01-2008, 09:12
2D circles.

No need for 3D since 2D already gets the point across.

Plus, animated 3D characters is the exact reason I don't play any console sports - watching the crap animation abilities of these developers is unbearable.

phnompenhandy
27-01-2008, 23:35
I don't like the blobs, so I download 2D icons of man-shaped objects.

SSGTroyer
28-01-2008, 00:26
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phnompenhandy:
I don't like the blobs, so I download 2D icons of man-shaped objects. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hear, here! http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

Downloaded, different, ovals shaped blobs that give a better representation of which way the blob is facing than the default ones.

Nostromo
28-01-2008, 01:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Katarian:
I like the blobs. A 3D engine would enable you to see fouls and penalties, but a top down view shows you a lot more about your players and the balls movement around the pitch. Watching the commentary only gives a very poor idea of what is happening, it often bares no resemblance to the action on the pitch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

somebody made a very good point a few weeks ago. we expect reality, so show me a manager who gets to see a top down view of the pitch during the game.

Mike A
28-01-2008, 03:16
I, too am blobless... the game is a bit quicker and the blobs are completely useless when trying to determine who fouled who, when, where, and with waht weapon...

However, I do look at the goals after a decent match, or when Goal of the Month comes up.

I suppose I'm a blob agnostic.

chopper99
28-01-2008, 03:30
2D pitch for me. I'm sure 3D will be good when it's implemented properly but I currently don't want to have to build a super-PC to play FM.

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 03:38
I don’t like the blobs. When I go to the football IRL, I don’t see a game between 22 blobs but players.

So I certainly prefer 3D. But only as an option!!!

I wish I could have my matches like this:

• Quick results only (for friendly games, for speed reasons)
• Text Match
• 2D View
• 3D View
• Hologram view, with 2nd generation surround sounds and beer that is all over me when my team scored a goal.

I think that many of us are against 3D because EA is having a 3D engine.

And we all know that EA is something like the devil. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, for me, it’s not an ‘A’ priority, other things could enhance my pleasure more.

Btw, you can replace the blobs if you want to, by ovals are even players.

Powermonger
28-01-2008, 03:55
I vote for options 'C' - Sensible Soccer / Kick Off 2002 match engine, at least watching your men run around would be more entertaining.

The 2D tactical graphics have their place and are commonly used in Soccer tactics books and also professional tools like ProZone or Tango, but I'd like the option of something else to view by.

Personally I don't see the need for the current 2D view to illustrate players celebrating or protesting with the referees, or injured players getting carried off, it seems silly and would be much more suited for something a little more prettier to look at.

Maybe it's just nostalgia but watching identifiable men passing a ball around a field and then sinking one into the back of the net is a bit more of an exhilrating experience then trying to identify with numbered 'lady beetles' hovering around.

Example:

http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/3642/57038_full.jpg

Powermonger
28-01-2008, 03:58
Bah let me try again:


http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/3642/57038_full.jpg (http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/3642/57038_full.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)

Sir_Liam
28-01-2008, 06:04
2d is without doubt the best option. The 2 reasons are that I have yet to see a 3d engine that is anywhere near the standard of the FM engine, and its a lot easier to spot where you're going wrong tactically, or where the opposition are doing well in 2d.

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 06:34
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sir_Liam:
2d is without doubt the best option. The 2 reasons are that I have yet to see a 3d engine that is anywhere near the standard of the FM engine, and its a lot easier to spot where you're going wrong tactically, or where the opposition are doing well in 2d. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the other hand in 2D it’s harder to recognize the individual player performances (is a player tackling pure or clumsy?)

The match engine has nothing to do with the view: text, 2D, 3D or 9D…

It are all just layers above the actual match engine…

Imagine this one…the FM match engine combined with the 3D view of EA…

Nomis07
28-01-2008, 07:00
Blobs for me, but only because I am sure I lose everytime I set to "only commentary".

If I have won the elague with games to spare I use the commentary feature jest because it's quicker.

KDR
28-01-2008, 07:10
Combine FM with 3D? My computer wouldn't run it, certainly not with as many leagues, etc, as I like to run. My machine will run things like HL2 perfectly, no skips or slowdown at all, yet I just know 3D FM would be horrible. And like others, I won't spend on a new PC or unnecessary upgrades just to play FM, much as I like the series.

I would prefer something like the Sensi Soccer/Kick Off display mentioned above - though of course you would have to still try to fit the entire pitch on-screen all the time.
If we really must stick with blobs, though, it might be a sacrifice worth making if the sound was improved again. I loved playing CM3 with the actual chants from certain teams, etc. Or is someone going to try to tell me that EA and the like own the copyright on chants, now? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 07:42
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KDR:
Combine FM with 3D? My computer wouldn't run it, certainly not with as many leagues, etc, as I like to run. My machine will run things like HL2 perfectly, no skips or slowdown at all, yet I just know 3D FM would be horrible. And like others, I won't spend on a new PC or unnecessary upgrades just to play FM, much as I like the series.

I would prefer something like the Sensi Soccer/Kick Off display mentioned above - though of course you would have to still try to fit the entire pitch on-screen all the time.
If we really must stick with blobs, though, it might be a sacrifice worth making if the sound was improved again. I loved playing CM3 with the actual chants from certain teams, etc. Or is someone going to try to tell me that EA and the like own the copyright on chants, now? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most chants are indeed copyrighted.

By instance:

"We Are The Champions" is copyrighted probably by Queen.

If you want to use that song in q game, even when it's performed by a few anonymous thousands of fans in a football stadium, then the publisher of the game will have to pay royalties to the owner of the chant.

aaberdeenn
28-01-2008, 07:46
2D beats anything else out there for now. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 07:57
Btw, the topic title reminds me about...

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/uploads/2007/05/blob.jpg

http://www.mechanicalcat.net/rachel/photos/theblob.jpg

PW
28-01-2008, 07:59
Definately the blobs for me. Find I can immerse myself much better in the game if I use the blobs rather than just commentary and definately helps you get a much better idea of how your tactics are faring use this method.

PW
28-01-2008, 07:59
Definately the blobs for me. Find I can immerse myself much better in the game if I use the blobs rather than just commentary and definately helps you get a much better idea of how your tactics are faring use this method.

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 08:03
I prefer the term "tactical display". When I was coaching, the very best DVDs on tactical systems were the ones that would show players on the pitch, and then show a 2-D tactical representation of what was happening. I also had coaching software for tactical planning that looked almost exactly like the current 2-D display.

For me, the 2-D is showing the coach exactly what he needs to see. The difficulty with FM is just in translating tactical instructions to what you ultimately want to see on the display.

barrynaughton
28-01-2008, 08:22
Like the blobs it leaves more to the imagination. with goals etc e.g.Gerrard crashes it on from 40 yards.

At present a 3d engine would be too repetitive and ruin some elements of the game

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 10:54
Please, not another 2D v 3D thread. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Warrenwwr
28-01-2008, 11:24
i would like to see some 3d blobs.

the overhead view just can't tell me if my dc's missed interception was a ball to feet or ball to head...

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 11:25
Yeps, this (http://www.web3d.org/images/uploads/casestudies/BMArena.jpg)other (http://www.digitalgames.fr/wp-content/images/fm06_01_01.jpg) is worse as the other one.

Patrick.Bateman
28-01-2008, 11:27
EDIT:

Yeps, this (http://www.web3d.org/images/uploads/casestudies/BMArena.jpg) is worse as the other (http://www.digitalgames.fr/wp-content/images/fm06_01_01.jpg) one.

Scotty Walds
28-01-2008, 12:13
Blobs rule http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 13:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrenwwr:
i would like to see some 3d blobs.

the overhead view just can't tell me if my dc's missed interception was a ball to feet or ball to head... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In terms of decisions one would make while coaching, does that even matter?

NepentheZ
28-01-2008, 14:23
I used to hate the blobs. Until they got little blob feet http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Adds a whole new dimension to the game http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SlayerX
28-01-2008, 14:32
It's "Yay blobs" for me, too.

Warrenwwr
28-01-2008, 15:02
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunnerfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrenwwr:
i would like to see some 3d blobs.

the overhead view just can't tell me if my dc's missed interception was a ball to feet or ball to head... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In terms of decisions one would make while coaching, does that even matter? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if it didn't matter, i would not be bothered http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

i think one can make a case for anything on the pitch affecting managerial decisions...yes even including a good punch in the gut.

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 15:08
My point is that, in terms of game decisions, it doesn't matter HOW or WHY your back misplayed the ball and allowed a goal, the fact is he did it. Everything else is for show.

Warrenwwr
28-01-2008, 15:22
decisions are made based on what is seen.

minimize what is seen, minimize the chances of making game altering decisions

Powermonger
28-01-2008, 15:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would prefer something like the Sensi Soccer/Kick Off display mentioned above - though of course you would have to still try to fit the entire pitch on-screen all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessarily. Both Sensible Soccer and Kick Off had a tactical overlay view showing the whole pitch and where your men were.

Incidently, the guy who developed Kick Off 2002 now works with the CM team. I would'nt be surprised if they put a Kick Off like match engine into that in the not too distant future.

heathxxx
28-01-2008, 15:40
I'm completely against any "blobism".

Blobs have feelings too... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 21:06
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrenwwr:
decisions are made based on what is seen.

minimize what is seen, minimize the chances of making game altering decisions </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if a player is caught on camera digging and scratching at his crotch, you make a decision on that?

heathxxx
28-01-2008, 23:08
I've yet to see any of my blobbies doing the infamous "Brian McClair" finger-over-one-nostril-and-snot. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stinger061
28-01-2008, 23:54
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunnerfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrenwwr:
decisions are made based on what is seen.

minimize what is seen, minimize the chances of making game altering decisions </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if a player is caught on camera digging and scratching at his crotch, you make a decision on that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well i'd probably be suggesting he see a doctor to obtain some form of ointment if he is digging at his crouch.

onecockygeezer
29-01-2008, 08:46
blobs all day long

gunnerfan
29-01-2008, 09:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stinger061:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunnerfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrenwwr:
decisions are made based on what is seen.

minimize what is seen, minimize the chances of making game altering decisions </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if a player is caught on camera digging and scratching at his crotch, you make a decision on that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well i'd probably be suggesting he see a doctor to obtain some form of ointment if he is digging at his crouch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but my FM experience will be fine without that little piece of reality.

Warrenwwr
29-01-2008, 09:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, but my FM experience will be fine without that little piece of reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

honestly, that would never meet the "key moments" or even "extended" criteria for highlights in fm matches.

if this is seen by players who enjoy a full 90 minute match, then they got their money's worth.

i make decisions based on what events take place in highlights.