Glen Johnson, S Downing and Ash Young on free transfer at the age of ca 30

Glen Johnson, Stewart Downing and Ashley Young on free transfer at the age of ca 30 in my save with Aston Villa in 2015.

..sounds great eh? The problem is that they look absolutely horrible with their attributes fitting for a Sunday league.

Glen Johnson has a natural fitness of 17, but since he stopped being a regular at Liverpool he did not leave the club until he was virtually unusable. (No technical attribute above 12 and most of them below 10, no mental attribute above 13 and most of them below 10)

Furthermore, I could sign Wayne Rooney at the age of 29 for 7M pounds for Aston Villa (9th in the table, no European football) in 2015. In the last three seasons he has played 28 games, scoring 7 goals.

Aaron Lennon follows the same path, but not as badly as the one described above and arguably he is a worse player (at least on FM).

My point being that there seems to be a flaw in the level of "decay" of players at big clubs. Also, I would expect them to move on if they do not get regular football. I think the problem is the wages they are on in the game makes it impossible for them to move on and they prefer to stay on fat contracts.

A few more examples of players not being English;

David Silva, age 30 (Pace 10, Stamina 10, Finishing 9 - generally looking average), 165k/week, since 2013 he has played 5 (!) games for City with no assist or goals to his name 2012-2013 he played 11 games.

Arjen Robben, age 32, (Pace 10) from the age of (2014/2015 season) Robben only played a few games for Bayern. But he is still on a big contract that runs until 2017 (unrealistic if the club does not rate him)

In contrast several other "big names" have preserved their attributes to a much greater extent and are still regulars at big clubs:

Ibrahimovic 34 y/o 200k/week

Vidic 34y/o 30k/week (at Valencia)

Torres 32 y/o 145k/week

John Terry 35 y/o 35k (not 100% first choice but still impressive)

Xavi 36 y/o 100k/week (just lost his spot at Barca, physical attributes starting to look scary)

Iniesta 32 y/o 53k/week (still first choice but physical attributes are predictably bad)

The good thing about this is that it stirs the pot a little, makes it possible to pick up some seriously talented players during the FM career. The downside is that player contracts make the players get stuck at high profile clubs even if they do not play and then the disastrous consequence for the player is that he soon becomes a shadow of his former self.

So much like real life then....

What if Silva got seriously injured on his huge pay packet now? Man City would replace him with someone else and he'd have to try and win his place back in the team. If he's not up to his former ability since his injury he'd struggle and the club would have a very expensive signing that they'd have trouble getting off the books because of his contract and the fact that he is the shadow of his former self.

With only so many places and so many games avaliable to play, some players will and do fall from grace.

What does Silva's injury history look like? If he was fully fit it sounds disturbing

You guys stop defending this crap!!!! there is no way a player can decay to that level,a top player i must add. Class is permanent ,on fm2011 there were 35 year olds with respectable if not impressive stats,that is even true in real life...Giggs,Seedorf,Nesta and the likes... The game is massively flawed and the sooner people acknowledge that rather than be in denial,the sooner this SI dudes will realise their mistakes and rectify them.

You guys stop defending this crap!!!! there is no way a player can decay to that level,a top player i must add. Class is permanent ,on fm2011 there were 35 year olds with respectable if not impressive stats,that is even true in real life...Giggs,Seedorf,Nesta and the likes... The game is massively flawed and the sooner people acknowledge that rather than be in denial,the sooner this SI dudes will realise their mistakes and rectify them.

I'm not defending it, I'm asking for more information before coming to a decision. You clearly haven't.

What does Silva's injury history look like? If he was fully fit it sounds disturbing

Good point! Actually both Glen Johnson and David Silva suffered from broken legs in 2011 (Johnson) and 2012 (Silva) which may explain a lot. Maybe I jumped the gun too quickly, but in FM11 David Silva always declined after a few season well before his 30th birthday.

Young and Downing have not suffered from major injuries though and perhaps their decline is more due to them not being particularly good on FM12 (maybe you disagree?)

there is no way a player can decay to that level

Adriano, Michael Owen, Ronaldinho, Sebastian Deisler, Andriy Shevchenko, Gaizka Mendieta, Kezman, Denilson...

Well just be thankful that both Johnson and Silva didn't just retire in 2011. Ashley Cole did on mine !

Adriano, Michael Owen, Ronaldinho, Sebastian Deisler, Andriy Shevchenko, Gaizka Mendieta, Kezman, Denilson...

they did not decay to sunday league standard....

thank you MUFC1995.... And Micheal Owen would play in almost any top 10 side in the EPL honestly,Ronaldinho aint dead yet....check the brazilian league,id still give you hundreds of players who are very good at advanced soccer age.

You guys stop defending this crap!!!! there is no way a player can decay to that level,a top player i must add. Class is permanent ,on fm2011 there were 35 year olds with respectable if not impressive stats,that is even true in real life...Giggs,Seedorf,Nesta and the likes... The game is massively flawed and the sooner people acknowledge that rather than be in denial,the sooner this SI dudes will realise their mistakes and rectify them.

I know FM is not perfect and always needs improving, but what is it with you and your blatant hatred towards SI? What is your purpose of this immature attitude?

thank you MUFC1995.... And Micheal Owen would play in almost any top 10 side in the EPL honestly,Ronaldinho aint dead yet....check the brazilian league,id still give you hundreds of players who are very good at advanced soccer age.

No he wouldnt. Owen is pretty much done for and he knows it. Ronaldinho has had a sudden burst with his new team, but before that he was nothing compared to what he was with Barcelona. As for Silva, well he broke his leg and probably never made it back into the first team so yeah his stats would turn to nothing.

Michael Owen is still good enough for England in my opinion.

Gervinho (still at Arsenal) at 29 looks worse than at the start of the 11/12 season. No injuries to talk of, but is in the Reserves and transfer-listed.

Ronaldinho on my demo save was class - his physicals had started to decline but scouts still thought he was a leading Prem midfielder!

Michael Owen has that striker instinct, he knows how to score goals as shown in Man Utd vs Leeds - but he's not a top 10 Prem side striker.

Michael Owen is still good enough for England in my opinion.

Hardly a mark of quality for a player is it?

I haven't played that long a save-game, but it seems to me that a serious injury (5-6 months), sets a player way (too much) back, and the AI doesn't recognize the injury as the cause of the decline, the player loses his spot and essentially a 6 month injury has the potential of totally ruin a players career. For example; Jack Wilshere starts out with a 8 month injury, 2 seasons in he has 1 league appearance for Arsenal and has dropped at least 1 attribute point in just about everything..

purely speculation, though..

Any chance of some screen shots of the players?

I've experienced a similar thing with Rooney, RVP and Van Der Vaart, could have bought all of them for £15M in 2014.

Edit: Thats £15M combined not each.

I haven't played that long a save-game, but it seems to me that a serious injury (5-6 months), sets a player way (too much) back, and the AI doesn't recognize the injury as the cause of the decline, the player loses his spot and essentially a 6 month injury has the potential of totally ruin a players career. For example; Jack Wilshere starts out with a 8 month injury, 2 seasons in he has 1 league appearance for Arsenal and has dropped at least 1 attribute point in just about everything..

purely speculation, though..

Yep. I'm on my 3rd season and Wilshere has only played 1 competitive game.

Johnson and Young have found new clubs.

Silva's appearances are all for the reserve team in case anyone is wondering.

Yep. I'm on my 3rd season and Wilshere has only played 1 competitive game.

So perhaps this is a loop hole for all us managers out there; look out for currently injured players and buy them on the cheap.

I haven't played that long a save-game, but it seems to me that a serious injury (5-6 months), sets a player way (too much) back, and the AI doesn't recognize the injury as the cause of the decline, the player loses his spot and essentially a 6 month injury has the potential of totally ruin a players career. For example; Jack Wilshere starts out with a 8 month injury, 2 seasons in he has 1 league appearance for Arsenal and has dropped at least 1 attribute point in just about everything..

purely speculation, though..

On my save (the opening post) Wilshere is class (see below), but his player history for Premiership games is as follows: Seems like Arsenal did not "wanna rush back the lad" from injury.. :-)

11/12: 2 games

12/13: 9 games

13/14: 17 games

14/15: 27 games

15/16: 35 games

evan at age 35 robben will never have Pace 10 (irl)...could you post his attributes and injuries history

evan at age 35 robben will never have Pace 10 (irl)...could you post his attributes and injuries history

I can see why Bayern started to lose their patience with Robben's hip.. 4 times he was out for 3 or 4 months between Feb 2012 and Sept 2014. Add to that some hamstring and hernia problems...

What is wrong with Robben? He pace and accel for that age seem normal to me?! Would you still expect Giggs to run like he was when he was 25?

I think Glen Johnson (not on his tackling attributes though ) has declined rather dramatically though.

Could you post a screenshot of Ibrahimovic?

I've found, at Arsenal, that Van Persie gets injured every time he sneezes. He's injury prone in reality, but slightly too much so in my save. Unless I've been unlucky. Those injuries sent him from 3.5 star in my team down to 2.5 star. He's recovered back to 3 now. Cassano, who I brought in for when he's injured, has lost even more though. he's gone from 3.5 to 2.5 without any significant time injured or out of the team. It's too early to say for sure yet, but on the surface it does seem like players in their late 20's / early 30's decay a little too fast for my liking. I'm probably going to have to go back to my old style of selling players when they hit 26.

Could you post a screenshot of Ibrahimovic?

Sure, mind you my save has progressed and he is now 35 y/o:

Players declining after injuries is definitely a problem.

Kris Commons has had a 3 month injury after which his stats dropped and wouldn't rise again. He then had a three week injury upon which his stats have plummeted again.

Izaguirre (broken leg so a bit more understandable) has had the same, and Kayal and Ki Sung Yong have had substantial stat drops after 2/3 month injuries as well.

FM08 used to be great for players stats declining.

As soon as they got to 30, every player would start to get rubbish very quick.

But SI sorted it for FM09 onwards.

Johnson and Young have found new clubs.

Silva's appearances are all for the reserve team in case anyone is wondering.

i am still in my first season, seeing as you used Ashley Young as an example i have had a look at his stats to compare with screen shot provided, im sorry but i had to laugh, you say his attributes have fallen dramatically and are that of a "Sunday League Player"?? surely this is a slight (huge) exaggeration..

comparing his current stats in the first season to the stats you provided a few season on there is between a 1 and 3 point fall difference in the attributes that have changed.

it is hardy game braking and is nothing like a "Sunday League player", if he has not been playing then there is a reasonable chance that these stats will rise by a point or 2 and maybe back to what they were should he start playing week in week out for the new club.

I think there's a problem where players over thirty need to be playing regularly or they start to decline. That's fine that happens IRL it just happens too quickly in FM. In FM if you have a player over thirty you can't rest him for a couple of games or you risk him declining. IRL players over thirty need to be used sparingly and played less often. IRL as players get older they take longer to get over knocks and recover from exertion. Recovery is controlled by the "Natural Fitness" attribute in FM but it never declines with age because its also used in the calculation of when they start to decline and at what rate they decline, If "Natural fitness" did decline players would go into a spiral of decline. I think it needs to be removed from that calculation so it can decline.

In conclusion; older players need to be less severely penalised for not playing for a couple of weeks.

And Natural Fitness needs to decline with age so older players are incapable of playing as many games in a short span of time as they could when they were younger.

there is a reasonable chance that these stats will rise by a point or 2 and maybe back to what they were should he start playing week in week out for the new club.

This is what I think needs to be tweaked. Players like Jack Wilshere have a good chance of recovering due to their age, but over the course of about 8 months I haven't seen any real improvement in the older (25+) players that I've tried to bed back into the team after an injury.

i am still in my first season, seeing as you used Ashley Young as an example i have had a look at his stats to compare with screen shot provided, im sorry but i had to laugh, you say his attributes have fallen dramatically and are that of a "Sunday League Player"?? surely this is a slight (huge) exaggeration..

comparing his current stats in the first season to the stats you provided a few season on there is between a 1 and 3 point fall difference in the attributes that have changed.

it is hardy game braking and is nothing like a "Sunday League player", if he has not been playing then there is a reasonable chance that these stats will rise by a point or 2 and maybe back to what they were should he start playing week in week out for the new club.

Fair enough, I see your point. Honestly, I do not remember what Ashley Young was like in the first season and maybe I was merely fooled by the, in my opinion, low attributes that must have been given to him if his stats have only decreased a little. Considering he is a MUTD first team regular and has made quite an impact in the PL and the England national team recently, I expected Ashley Young to be better. But any way, it is nice to read everyone responses and hear your views. I agree that I used the term "Sunday League player" loosely, too loosely even. Sorry about that.

As I am playing with Aston Villa, I tried to keep tabs on Young and Downing in case they wanted to return, but at the age of 30 I deem them to be over the hill in my save. But it is a matter of opinion.

In my save, Kagawa was released at 24!!! His attributes are huge and he's had no injury.

Was simply released by Dortmund...

going on what you have posted the thing i would be questioning is why are teams not playing these players in the first place, if they are fit and ready to play surely they would warrant a place on the bench at least, i really think some of the stat drops can be put down to not playing much or at all.

hopefully SI will see this and take a look at AI squad management and make any adjustments should any be needed.