Why does FM allow us to 'cheat' ?

I've been playing FM for years now and always get temped to reload the game after a bad result. (i would be lying if i say that i haven't)

But the point is I don't see why this is allowed in the game as it takes away from the sense of achievement. Of course SI cannot remove the load game feature as it stops players switching between saves with different clubs. A possible option is to auto save after every result which would solve the problem (i know its not the best and/or is unpopular but at least its an idea).

Also they should also prevent you from adding a new manger in the same league as you, as its currently too easy to force a win by managing your opponents.

Any thoughts?

p.s i always used to feel bad by 'cheating' in this way but after a good browse in the forums over the last few weeks i see other people are comfortable using FMRTE to edit opposition stats, add players etc.

Now that's a bit extreme isn't it?

How about this for a solution.

Have. Some. Self. Control.

Tada. Problem solved.

Because it's a game and it's up to the owner to play however he or she wants to.

How about this for a solution.

Have. Some. Self. Control.

Tada. Problem solved.

Best explanation ever.

Some people like to play the game reloading at every loss, and get some enjoyment out of that. I can't see why, but hell, why not let them . I save every time before a game (became an automatic habit), but never reload. One of the great things about Football Manager is that u can play it however you want .

Just force urself to not do it .

But the point is I don't see why this is allowed in the game

You've answered your own question:

its not the best and/or is unpopular

Also they should also prevent you from adding a new manger in the same league as you, as its currently too easy to force a win by managing your opponents.

This is for multiplayer purposes.

Any thoughts?

p.s i always used to feel bad by 'cheating' in this way but after a good browse in the forums over the last few weeks i see other people are comfortable using FMRTE to edit opposition stats, add players etc.

Now that's a bit extreme isn't it?

I think you need to realise that there is no right nor wrong way to play this game - what you find acceptable to do within the game is not the same as what others find acceptable.

A game is first and foremost meant to be fun. None of this learning or achievement rubbish. Some people like reloading - full-stop.

I have been one of those reloaders ever since I ever since I got my first FM at the age of 15 but have reloaded less and less since then.

Now i'm determined to play FM2012 'honestly'

It just makes those journeyman saves (where your not promoted from your original league) that little bit harder .....

The simple solution is, don't do it.

Is the op actually serious? Don't do it, simple.

well maybe i wasn't expecting a list of people saying not to do it (as anyone could write that an i could have easily thought of that myself!). I thought it may have lead to people saying how they like to play the game if they play it the same way etc.

It is your game so you can play it how you want, there is not difference between using FMRTE and doing what you are doing it is all cheating at the end of the day.

Cheating is lame.. Takes the fun out of the game.

Have some self control.

Anyone can play however they like but how people get any enjoyment or sense of achievement from cheating is beyond me. And I'm not just referring to Football Manager.

Cheating can be fun. I often edit things to get Everton relegated, just for a giggle.

Winning isn't fun unless you lose every once in a while.

One of my mates does this all the time.

I just couldn't be bothered with replying matches all the time and losing is a part of football.

The question really should be, "Why do you allow yourself to cheat?"

Fact is, sometimes you lose. I lost the league on the final day of the season. Needed to win be 3 clear goals to top on goal difference. They scored the last minute of added time. I was tempted but did not reload.

Conversely, this also happened to me and I got relegated.

Cheating can be fun. I often edit things to get Everton relegated, just for a giggle.

i like you suddenly.

It's your game to play how you want: that may mean using programmes like Genie Scout or FMRTE, downloading shortlists of wonderkids or ready-made tactics, using other people's training schedules or re-loading. Some people might consider some of those things "cheating" and not others. Different people will have different opinions: for one re-loading is cheating but using an editor is OK, another person might think the opposite, for someone else using downloaded tactics might be the worst. If you're playing alone what matters is having an enjoyable experience and if you're competing with someone else all that matters is you both play by the same rules.

Though knowing there are so many ways to help yourself along occasionally when I see someone on here talking about the fantastic results they have had I think to myself, "I wonder if they play the same way I do?"

Cheating can be fun. I often edit things to get Everton relegated, just for a giggle.

What did you do, put Rafa in charge?

I don't mind if people do it personally, but when they upload "achievements" in the team threads when it's obvious they cheated to get there it becomes

It's your game to play how you want: that may mean using programmes like Genie Scout or FMRTE, downloading shortlists of wonderkids or ready-made tactics, using other people's training schedules or re-loading. Some people might consider some of those things "cheating" and not others. Different people will have different opinions: for one re-loading is cheating but using an editor is OK, another person might think the opposite, for someone else using downloaded tactics might be the worst. If you're playing alone what matters is having an enjoyable experience and if you're competing with someone else all that matters is you both play by the same rules.

Though knowing there are so many ways to help yourself along occasionally when I see someone on here talking about the fantastic results they have had I think to myself, "I wonder if they play the same way I do?"

As a dumb yank who didn't know anything about football when I started playing FM, "cheating" is how I learned to play the game. I'd actually replay games I won so I could see how tweaking tactics, instructions, pre game morale, etc. worked. At the end of the day, it's a game and the makers need to give you the option of playing how you want to. If you want to win every game because you constantly reset, good for you. Want to manage a lower league and move up to the EPL or you want to manage Man City and build a dream team? It's all up to the user. This is a single player game, the player should enjoy playing it however he wants to do it.

I'd hate it if the game autosaved after every match. It'd waste so much time, particularly as the game goes on.

As a dumb yank who didn't know anything about football when I started playing FM, "cheating" is how I learned to play the game. I'd actually replay games I won so I could see how tweaking tactics, instructions, pre game morale, etc. worked. At the end of the day, it's a game and the makers need to give you the option of playing how you want to. If you want to win every game because you constantly reset, good for you. Want to manage a lower league and move up to the EPL or you want to manage Man City and build a dream team? It's all up to the user. This is a single player game, the player should enjoy playing it however he wants to do it.

I agree. Replaying certain games does give you a good insight on what went wrong or how to play into the future.

Personally the versatility is why the game is so successful, but re loading just so that you win every game is a bit drastic. But hey its up to the individual.

Well as i said before i've decided not to reload and accept losing to relegation candidates, as that happens in real life.

On a related note, does anyone else use the transfer window as a 'trail run' assessing potential targets and how much they cost/wages and then just reload and put your plans into action?

Cheating can be fun. I often edit things to get Everton relegated, just for a giggle.

I did that to Arsenal, ruined the finances, bankrupted with Sagna earning £10mil a week. Then I nicked Fabregas on a free!

I've reloaded a few times, but only really if a result is just silly because of a bug. (like having to cancel a sub after someone got sent off, and their position being un-fillable was no way to drag someone to it, making my defence just a shambles).

I like that I can, but I've got the self control to avoid it by and large. It could be an option to have a "auto save after match" checkbox for those that want the option removed.

a videogame is for fun and if somebody consider fun reload after every lost game.................. well that's his problem.

I've been playing FM for years now and always get temped to reload the game after a bad result. (i would be lying if i say that i haven't)

But the point is I don't see why this is allowed in the game as it takes away from the sense of achievement. Of course SI cannot remove the load game feature as it stops players switching between saves with different clubs. A possible option is to auto save after every result which would solve the problem (i know its not the best and/or is unpopular but at least its an idea).

Also they should also prevent you from adding a new manger in the same league as you, as its currently too easy to force a win by managing your opponents.

Any thoughts?

p.s i always used to feel bad by 'cheating' in this way but after a good browse in the forums over the last few weeks i see other people are comfortable using FMRTE to edit opposition stats, add players etc.

Now that's a bit extreme isn't it?

I spend my hard earned money on it. I should be able to reload after a bad result if I want to.

People filling the thread with smart Alec responses like "just don't do it" don't seem to get that it isn't that simple. The reloading the battle raged in me for quite a few years. I'd set out to play honestly but then, when it came to the crunch, I just couldn't do it. By the time the first FM came out I'd pretty much beaten this demon and nowadays I never even think about reloading because I'm a bit of a realism obsessive who hates the idea of seeing the same match more than once. But I definitely understand the struggle others have.

Because it's a game and it's up to the owner to play however he or she wants to.

Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes!

Why do you cross the road when the pedestrian crossing light is red?

Well, I play FM vastly differently from the average user. I go to the extreme on "testing" the game and yes, I use cheats. But does it bother me? No. Do I brag about staying unbeaten for 5 years in a club? No. I do this because I personally feel that it is enjoyable. Of course, most FM players in this forum don't play the game in the same way that I do but I have been doing this for ages and never get bored of it!

Most might say that my style of playing is like watching a new paintwork being dried up on the wall but I find this interesting! I hope SI never removes the multiplayer function and FMRTE is the best editor!

not even an issue in my mind.... this is meant to be football.. its high's and its lows...

realoading is equivelent to playing through a whole FPS gun game with god mode on .. cant take a hit... no challenge.

can't see the appeal personally

I can think of one time when I seriously considered replaying a game and it was back in FM08 on my Kings Lynn save. Having spent about 8 years stuck in the Conference I went into the last game of the season needing just a point to be champions and promotion at last. We won 2-0 and were promoted only for FM to crash losing everything up to two games before the end of the season. I rebooted and watched, infuriated, as we failed to pick up any points from the last two games and finished second. I spent some time seriously considering replaying the games (I had won promotion once already, was it really cheating?), but eventually decided to try the playoffs instead. We made the final and i'd be lying if I said I didn't save it on the day of the final... Happily the result went my way and we (finally) won promotion to the football league without the need for replaying the match.

Well, I play FM vastly differently from the average user. I go to the extreme on "testing" the game and yes, I use cheats. But does it bother me? No. Do I brag about staying unbeaten for 5 years in a club? No. I do this because I personally feel that it is enjoyable. Of course, most FM players in this forum don't play the game in the same way that I do but I have been doing this for ages and never get bored of it!

Most might say that my style of playing is like watching a new paintwork being dried up on the wall but I find this interesting! I hope SI never removes the multiplayer function and FMRTE is the best editor!

Indeed!

Also, you get to a point where the AI just collapses and needs help getting up. The furthest i've got was 2022 and by then the only decent young players coming through are Brazilian and French. The academy systems around the world had failed, so I go in and find some players from various countries and give them some extra points. Each season that means there are more good players coming through and it means the tournaments don't become gifts to either Brazil or France.

I hate having to replay games, sometimes when I get a crash dump etc and I haven't saved for a few games you have to go back and play again.

I can't do it, I've stopped playing several saves because of it.

I don`t know why but i never had the desire to use reloads.

I think it depends on what you want from FM.I want realism so...i don`t cheat.

People filling the thread with smart Alec responses like "just don't do it" don't seem to get that it isn't that simple.

Yes, it really, really is. Don't do it. Don't expect SI to screw the game down one way just because some users have zero self control, and want to make everybody else play the way they want the game to go.

I admit that I have had the occasional ragequit.

Normally, after one of those, I need to cool down a bit so I don't re-start the game straight away. More often than not, I lose more than one match when I do this, and more often than not those are games I won. So it isn't really something I do to achieve better or win trophies.

The reason for ragequitting is when my sense of suspension-of-disbelief is trampled upon by what I perceive as completely nonsensical match events. Examples of this are for instance when the fourth injury occur (or the third, if it is in the same position). One own-goal is okay, it happens. When the second and third own goal is scored in the same match I actually roll-eyes at FM - "really?". Ridiculous over-performances by shamefully weak opposition teams and players are also extremely annoying, because I sit there feeling that the game is over-compensating for their lack of skill, morale and motivation by letting them do impossible stuff just to avoid improbable match results.

While I won't ragequit when the opposition have half their team injured, scores several own-goals or my players are perhaps overly awesome, my sense of enjoyment is diminished somewhat when this happens the other way around. The same could be said when I click on the motivation gadget after 10 minutes and see 11 negative responses to the opposition team talk (especially when the manager is Mourinho or other prominent rl managers), when their goalkeeper kicks the ball to my DMC/DC for an easy one-on-one every time he has the chance (you know what the definition of madness is...), and when they have half-injured (75% or lower) players in the starting 11.

You see, it is not the result/loss itself that causes me to ragequit (and then effectively reload), but the loss of the feeling of immersion.

When creating a tactic I often play the same match again and again to minimize the amount of factors other than the tactic, but I never keep those saves for long. Once I am happy with the tactic I start a real save.

I've had game crashes after matches finished in FM11, so I wouldn't mind the game auto-saving after every match in future FM's (as long as it didn't crash in the middle of saving). Maybe it could be an option that you can turn on or off. I save before every match as well, just incase the game does crash straight after the match. I don't think it should be a forced process just to stop "cheaters". People can play their copy of the game however they want because it is their game and they paid for it, and for that reason I think a forced auto-save would be a bad idea.

Depends how you play it like people say but for me, losing and disappointment at certain times is good and part of the fun of playing the game. If you take a team up a division then its a great challenge to keep them up. If you don't do it then that's just football.

I've had game crashes after matches finished in FM11, so I wouldn't mind the game auto-saving after every match in future FM's (as long as it didn't crash in the middle of saving). Maybe it could be an option that you can turn on or off. I save before every match as well, just incase the game does crash straight after the match. I don't think it should be a forced process just to stop "cheaters". People can play their copy of the game however they want because it is their game and they paid for it, and for that reason I think a forced auto-save would be a bad idea.

I really cannot believe that people moan that they can cheat, weak willed & too quick to blame other people for a decision that they are making.

Just because the lid to the cookie jar is not on it doesn't mean you should help yourself to the contents.

IT wouldn't stop cheaters anyway, all they will do is run two save files & go back to the one that has not been written over.

I really cannot believe that people moan that they can cheat, weak willed & too quick to blame other people for a decision that they are making.

Just because the lid to the cookie jar is not on it doesn't mean you should help yourself to the contents.

I didn't moan in the slightest about how people play their game. Why quote my post, when all I said is I think the auto-save thing could be optional for those who want it?

First paragraph was in addition to your post to emphasise the point that if folk want to cheat then they will find a way, the rest of my post was a general comment.

First paragraph was in addition to your post to emphasise the point that if folk want to cheat then they will find a way, the rest of my post was a general comment.

Ah, gotcha.

@kipper This is your issue, not SI's responsibility , your the one reloading the game , its not a game fault , its you who is doing it on purpose

@fcunitedfan its been option for a very long time ( i think it was optional already on first FM) dude check the game options -.-

I've been playing FM for years now and always get temped to reload the game after a bad result. (i would be lying if i say that i haven't)

But the point is I don't see why this is allowed in the game as it takes away from the sense of achievement. Of course SI cannot remove the load game feature as it stops players switching between saves with different clubs. A possible option is to auto save after every result which would solve the problem (i know its not the best and/or is unpopular but at least its an idea).

Also they should also prevent you from adding a new manger in the same league as you, as its currently too easy to force a win by managing your opponents.

Any thoughts?

p.s i always used to feel bad by 'cheating' in this way but after a good browse in the forums over the last few weeks i see other people are comfortable using FMRTE to edit opposition stats, add players etc.

Now that's a bit extreme isn't it?

I can honestly say that there have been times where i have been very tempted to reload after a bad result but have managed to resist, especially when i can be all over a team and yet they manage to grab a couple of late goals and win the match.

However, the one thing that keeps me from doing this is what you said, it takes away from the achievement and it does.

As for your other suggestion not allowing a player to manage more than one team in each league? absolutely NO, for the simple reason of that i do not only have a save for my self, but a save where i and a few friends all have a 2 clubs each and a lot of us like to manage in the same leagues with this option removed i can honestly say it would probably ruin the whole experience for me.

I've been playing FM for years now and always get temped to reload the game after a bad result. (i would be lying if i say that i haven't)

But the point is I don't see why this is allowed in the game as it takes away from the sense of achievement. Of course SI cannot remove the load game feature as it stops players switching between saves with different clubs. A possible option is to auto save after every result which would solve the problem (i know its not the best and/or is unpopular but at least its an idea).

Also they should also prevent you from adding a new manger in the same league as you, as its currently too easy to force a win by managing your opponents.

Any thoughts?

p.s i always used to feel bad by 'cheating' in this way but after a good browse in the forums over the last few weeks i see other people are comfortable using FMRTE to edit opposition stats, add players etc.

Now that's a bit extreme isn't it?

What about those of us with friends who regularly play multi-player games? SI would lose a lot of customers if they removed this feature in an attempt to stop cheats.

At the end of the day, no matter what restrictions SI put in place, people will always find a way of cheating if they want to, so SI are doing the right thing by giving customers the choice of doing whatever we want to open the game up to every way of playing. They realise that the majority of us have the self control to not cheat.

They realise that the majority of us have the self control to not cheat.

Permit me a wry smile, but I do understand your meaning;)

The question really should be, "Why do you allow yourself to cheat?"

Fact is, sometimes you lose. I lost the league on the final day of the season. Needed to win be 3 clear goals to top on goal difference. They scored the last minute of added time. I was tempted but did not reload.

Conversely, this also happened to me and I got relegated.

This happened to me recently too. The fun part for me now is making sure I go one better next year. Couldn't bring myself to reload - that's the point where I would lose interest in the save.