Disappointed

I have been a long time fan of the CM/FM series, playing it for well over twelve years. I’ve played it on and off, but most times on . Although I’ve loved the graphics progress and the interactive options, I must say that I’m getting further disappointed with the game. I found that in the last few years the new versions were heading the wrong way – much more predictable and therefore, less room for creativity regarding the game approach. I wanted to see if the 2012 edition was going to be the same and I tried on the demo. I got a team in the Spanish league (Malaga), I did all I was supposed to do in order to prepare my squad to face the challenges. I waited until the first abnormality to occur to test this version and that was the fourth league match, a peaceful Malaga-Athletic, one of those games that could have gone either way. I played it eleven times with different tactics, I lost each and every time. Worse than that, every time I played, my team went ahead and every time there was an abnormal situation going on in order for me to loose. I had players sent off, I had penalties against, I had injured players and I suffered own goals. The most ridiculous moment was when I played a rather aggressive tactic and went ahead 3 nil. I suffered to own goals, two penalties and ended up loosing 3-5. This is rubbish.

The match engine is tweaked to pressure you in predefined moments, and there’s not a lot one can do to counter that. It is pointless to play a game that is supposedly so interactive if your fate is already decided, and it is a bit stupid, to be honest. You can’t argue against fate, can you?

There are a lot more things that affect results apart from tactics.

Fate is not decided by the match engine, your own paranoia is at fault.

As for using an aggressive attacking formation and losing 5-3 why did you not change tactics at 3-0 up ? If you dont put any consideration into defense then you are giving the opposition chances to score, which they did.

Ah the old replay over and over scenario.

OP, prepare yourself.

no i have to agree i did a test on celtic on fm11 were i was 2-0 up in the first leg of a champion league quilifier against sevilla

i starrted my test on the second leg, i must have triedd every tactic on this forum and my own and on every single try i was getting knocked out wether i was going 1 or 2 -0 up they would come back and score just the right amount to get through then i added a manager to sevilla and i set there tactic to all the players on the wide side of the park and goalkeeper running out and at half time i scored 4 goals which ment celtic leading on aggregate 6-0. then at half time i put sevilla to a normal 442 and i was astonished to watch whilst they scored 7 goals and went through

On my last test i used fmrte to lower all of sevillas players stats to 1 and finally celtic won the qualifier 4-0(2-0 at home and 2-0 away) and when i clicked contine at the end of the match the game shuts down and i get given a crash dump (which i still have if anyone at si wants it)

So the conclusion to my test is that no matter what team, tactic or even if i win the qulifier all in the game will not let celtic progress as it had already made up its mind

Now i wonder what nonscence people will say now, but come on really no one can denie after testing it like that the OP or i cannot be just that unlucky everytime we played the match

Fate is not decided by the match engine, your own paranoia is at fault.

As for using an aggressive attacking formation and losing 5-3 why did you not change tactics at 3-0 up ? If you dont put any consideration into defense then you are giving the opposition chances to score, which they did.

one of the collyer brothers said something like "the match engine is manipulated so the results are realistic". Now that is not a direct quote as it was a while ago when it was said and i could be mis-remembering. this may not be relevant to this version of the match engine, but certainly in the past the results were at times fixed to produce realistic scorelines.

To any of you who think the game is fixed, read this thread, this has been done over and over and over and over, the game is not fixed at all, using FMRTE to cheat your way to anything does not prove any facts.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/145496-30-time-reload-but-you-can-t-win?highlight=reload+times

but certainly in the past the results were at times fixed to produce realistic scorelines.

No they weren't, the ME has always been tuned to achieve the most realistic results it can based on the data fed in and the way it calculates the result from that, one way that's tested is by running soak tests that sim thousands of games, those results are the guide as to whether or not it's balanced.

In every match however there is a random fed in too so even replaying the same match isn't actually ever replaying the same match.

No they weren't, the ME has always been tuned to achieve the most realistic results it can based on the data fed in and the way it calculates the result from that, one way that's tested is by running soak tests that sim thousands of games, those results are the guide as to whether or not it's balanced.

In every match however there is a random fed in too so even replaying the same match isn't actually ever replaying the same match.

Apologies to whichever of the brothers I've misquoted and/or misunderstood.

I agree with the guy who started the post!

I too have played the game since I can't remember when, and I must admit there are time you know you will lose no matter what you do!!

I will wait for a few months before buying and will continue with fm11 for a bit!

Whilst I think sometimes the AI has been "designed" to make you lose certain games, I do believe its more based on luck and randomness..

I did a similar test a while back, Im AC Milan in 2014/2015 season, Im playing Man Utd in the Champions League Final, I have a very decent squad, Pato, Neymar, 3 Italian's in the International first team at the back (all VERY good aswell), and a very decent overall squad, very capable of winning the Champs league using a decent working tactic which has won me the league, and cup..

I played the game, and lost 2-1 (so I saved this to another file to carry on from) and I reloaded the game about 10 times, using the same tactic and players.. out of the 10 games, it was about 50/50.. not much difference in terms of possession, shots etc.. The score changed quite dramatically which was a surprise. it varied from 1-0's to 5-2's to 7-4 score..

Now, I will always believe that the game is to generate a loss/bad result/slump here and there to stop a winning streak of like 100 through all comps.. No matter the team and its randomness... But I wouldn't suggest this is the AI cheating, and Im happy with the way the game is processed and its fixings..

Now, I will always believe that the is to generate a loss here and there to stop a winning streak of like 100 through all comps.. No matter the team and its randomness... But I wouldn't suggest this is the AI cheating, and Im happy with the way the game is processed and its fixings..

It's called "over confidence" and it's a very transparent, and sensible part of the game. You can tell the players to not be complacent all you want, but there comes a time where they won't listen to you anymore. Just like real life, even Barcelona in real life struggle with this, hence why Guardiola has to continuously come up with new tactics and new scenarios to motivate the players to keep on proving themselves.

It's called "over confidence" and it's a very transparent, and sensible part of the game. You can tell the players to not be complacent all you want, but there comes a time where they won't listen to you anymore. Just like real life, even Barcelona in real life struggle with this, hence why Guardiola has to continuously come up with new tactics and new scenarios to motivate the players to keep on proving themselves.

Exactly the word i was looking for!! Thank you! (By the way the above from me is not to suggest i agree with the OP, i think the game is quite realistic

why doesn't the OP go on holiday for 1 day to see if he still loses ? :confused:

I did the same test and got different results every time. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose; so no, the ME is not fixed at all.

To any of you who think the game is fixed, read this thread, this has been done over and over and over and over, the game is not fixed at all, using FMRTE to cheat your way to anything does not prove any facts.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/145496-30-time-reload-but-you-can-t-win?highlight=reload+times

The fact is any piece of coding, or any data at all for that matter, can, and often does, produce anomalous results, any scientist or mathematician would be worried if it didn't. Anomalous results can happen in FM because it's imperfect coding by imperfect humans. However this is the main FM criticizer bashing forum so it's looked on more like heresy than empirical observation.

For my part I accept the game coding isn't perfect and at times anomalies can appear like AI cheating, and at times I'll lose games that I shouldn't because of it. However, I think if the player is good enough the game limitations can be evened out long term by simply being good at FM.

@OP, You'll, unfortunately, never solve your problem posting it on here because the majority will instantly be hostile to the premise that FM is wrong in any way. Try the bugs forum it's usually more helpful.

The result of the thread you linked was inconclusive how does it prove anything?

The fact is any piece of coding, or any data at all for that matter, can, and often does, produce anomalous results, any scientist or mathematician would be worried if it didn't. Anomalous results can happen in FM because it's imperfect coding by imperfect humans. However this is the main FM criticizer bashing forum so it's looked on more like heresy than empirical observation.

For my part I accept the game coding isn't perfect and at times anomalies can appear like AI cheating, and at times I'll lose games that I shouldn't because of it. However, I think if the player is good enough the game limitations can be evened out long term by simply being good at FM.

@OP, You'll, unfortunately, never solve your problem posting it on here because the majority will instantly be hostile to the premise that FM is wrong in any way. Try the bugs forum it's usually more helpful.

The thread proves that with the right approach every game is winnable, the OP in that thread claimed he had come across a game that could not be won no matter what was done, much like the OP in this thread, and he was proved to be wrong as users took up the mantle and heaps won the game first time.

Replaying the same game over and over is false logic and proves nothing at all other than you have the ability to lose over and over, people think that by replaying the same game over and over it will somehow show the ME is fixed, yet fail to understand that everything that happens from the post match team talk in the previous game has an effect on the game they are trying to win, and if anything has been done wrongly in that period of time it will affect the game they are trying to win.

You will never solve the problem because there is no problem to solve, only a perceived problem based on limited observations.

The thread proves that with the right approach every game is winnable, the OP in that thread claimed he had come across a game that could not be won no matter what was done, much like the OP in this thread, and he was proved to be wrong as users took up the mantle and heaps won the game first time.

Replaying the same game over and over is false logic and proves nothing at all other than you have the ability to lose over and over, people think that by replaying the same game over and over it will somehow show the ME is fixed, yet fail to understand that everything that happens from the post match team talk in the previous game has an effect on the game they are trying to win, and if anything has been done wrongly in that period of time it will affect the game they are trying to win.

You will never solve the problem because there is no problem to solve, only a perceived problem based on limited observations.

BURN HIM! BURN THE EVIL HERETIC!

The test proved the ME is not fixed, nothing less, nothing more, the OP claims some games are fixed for you to lose, that thread proves otherwise, no game is ever fixed so you cant win.

The test proved the ME is not fixed, nothing less, nothing more, the OP claims some games are fixed for you to lose, that thread proves otherwise, no game is ever fixed so you cant win.

Hahahahaha "your kind"

I dont need to prove the ME is not fixed, not at all, the people making accusations that it is need to come up with something other than replaying the same game over and over if they ever want SI to do more than laugh off threads like these.

Anyway this is cleared up, so ill leave it there.

Hahahahaha "your kind"

I dont need to prove the ME is not fixed, not at all, the people making accusations that it is need to come up with something other than replaying the same game over and over if they ever want SI to do more than laugh off threads like these.

Anyway this is cleared up, so ill leave it there.

You've just said you don't need to prove the ME is not fixed yet you attempted to do just that :confused:

I think in many of these threads 'fixed' is used as shorthand for 'I think something is wrong with the ME that I can't explain'. We all know the ME is not fixed in a big conspiracy against FM'rs to lose certain games, but it does come up with anomalies caused sometimes (I believe) by less than perfect new features, press conferences, team talks etc, having too big an effect on morale. Other times (again, I believe) on imperfect coding that throws up an anomaly in results. It will always be the case in anything data related and thankfully it's rare on FM, but as I said before it can be mitigated over the course of a season by simply being a good manager.

It is impossible to prove the game isn't fixed (you can't prove a negative).

It is impossible to prove the game isn't fixed (you can't prove a negative).

Newsflash; you can prove a negative

http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf

While it is clear that matches aren't fixed, it is at the same time a fact that SI has programmed FM to generate randomness in ways that may appear as predetermination.

When you're on a winning streak, it is inevitable that you will encounter the "super-keeper" phenomenon sooner or later. So if you get so annoyed that you replay that match, there is still a chance that the code that is supposed to start firing when you're on a long winning streak churns up with one of the random match events that is triggered by that situation; the super-keeper. Or you may encounter the "they score an amazing goal after 30 seconds and then park the bus" surely-not-what-they-had-planned event. The extra-time corner goal winner may happen etc etc etc...

Similarly, your striker may score a goal every match for a while but eventually he will go on a goal drought. The match his goal drought starts for real, he may miss dozens of ccc's and then you lose. Re-load and the randomly induced goal drought event may still occur that very same match because the situation leading up to it is the same.

the op obviously registered to troll? he has 1 post.

The game is not fixed /thread

Newsflash; you can prove a negative

http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf

And read the article - he doesn't state it's possible to prove a negative - he says it would require an infinite level of inductive reasoning.

the op obviously registered to troll? he has 1 post.

The game is not fixed /thread

Don't assume bad faith.

All he's managed to state is the Problem of induction.

And read the article - he doesn't state it's possible to prove a negative - he says it would require an infinite level of inductive reasoning.

Well, I'll leave you with a quote from this article:

"Among professional logicians, guess how many think that you can’t prove a negative? That’s right: zero. Yes, Virginia, you can prove a negative, and it’s easy, too."

Really easy too

Anyway, off topic.