What are we really paying for in FM12...not the manager or player AI says Paul Collyer

Here is a quote from Paul Collyer regarding FM12 match engine

Its very much based on the 11.3 one. Any changes have pretty much all been related to improving the 3D experience as opposed to changing the manager and player AI.

So FM12 is just a release of new graphics and not improvements in the AI?

What was wrong with the match engine before? If it ain't broke....

We're paying for team talks, contract negotiation lock-ins, the tone system, add/remove leagues, better stats + analysis & more.

Well worth the cash in my honest opinion.

Just curious, but have you played the demo yet?

So FM12 is just a release of new graphics and not improvements in the AI?

Yes.That's why i'm not buying.

I'm not going to be a part of a negative thread. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Out.

I'm not going to be a part of a negative thread. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Out.

So we can't state our opinions then?

FM 12 is far from 'just new graphics', the most casual of glances at the release blogs prove that fairly conclusively. The implementation of Customizable leagues/nations, lockable areas of contracts during negotiations and conversational tones are just 3 new features off the top off my head that make FM12 an absolute must buy.

That was a comment pertaining only to the ME. They made mostly graphical tweeks to the ME, without updating much in the ME AI. I'm sure there were changes to the AI throughout the rest of the game.

Context, it's a good thing.

So FM12 is just a release of new graphics and not improvements in the AI?

Paul Collyer is referring to the match engine, not to FM2012 as a whole.

Paul Collyer is referring to the match engine, not to FM2012 as a whole.

Exactly, as Twinsfan says, context is a good thing

Yes lets just ignore all the other features that SI has added to the game.

AI improvements are never as drastic as you think they will be but they are there.

I'm sure people will come in here and assure you that the demo plays differently from FM11 but hey...no one is forcing you to buy it.

The rival transfers bug is STILL in the game, and that bugs me a lot.

So FM12 is just a release of new graphics and not improvements in the AI?

have you not played the demo? have you not read the blogs? graphics is a minor thing they improved to me, made alot more things better, and there are a few new features

The rival transfers bug is STILL in the game, and that bugs me a lot.

What bug is that? Can't say i've ever heard of it?

Bow Chicka Bow Wow

What a dumb thread.

Every year people complain, "Next time don't give us loads of new features, just fix the bugs!". Well this time the ME is far slicker and is pretty much bug free. We won't have to wait for 3 patches to play the game now. It's 11.3 with considerable polish. But outside the ME there are a number of new features; not as many as in previous releases, but the amount of serious bugs appears to be tiny. Quality, not quantity appears to be the order of the day here.

Personally i was very hesitant about buying FM12, particularly in the light of Steam activation. However, having played the demo I have to say I'm mightily impressed and will be putting my order in after all.

I still enjoy FM and will get '12, but realistically thinking about it, the jump from one year to the next is in no way deserving of a new title each and every year. I don't know much about the resources that go into the new features but I'd imagine it'd be a lot easier and customer-friendly in an update rather than having to purchase a new game each and every year.

Every year people complain, "Next time don't give us loads of new features, just fix the bugs!". Well this time the ME is far slicker and is pretty much bug free. We won't have to wait for 3 patches to play the game now. It's 11.3 with considerable polish. But outside the ME there are a number of new features; not as many as in previous releases, but the amount of serious bugs appears to be tiny. Quality, not quantity appears to be the order of the day here.

Personally i was very hesitant about buying FM12, particularly in the light of Steam activation. However, having played the demo I have to say I'm mightily impressed and will be putting my order in after all.

Exactly and with the new ability of adding/removing leagues coupled with all the other features, at first i had my doubts over the game but after playing the demo and giving it more thought its £25 well spent.

Id rather spend £25 on FM than spend another £40+ going up and Watching a Wolves game. 2 hours of questionable "entertainment" vs 100's of hours of entertainment and satisfaction (hopefully)? No brainer really

Every year people complain, "Next time don't give us loads of new features, just fix the bugs!". Well this time the ME is far slicker and is pretty much bug free. We won't have to wait for 3 patches to play the game now. It's 11.3 with considerable polish. But outside the ME there are a number of new features; not as many as in previous releases, but the amount of serious bugs appears to be tiny. Quality, not quantity appears to be the order of the day here.

Personally i was very hesitant about buying FM12, particularly in the light of Steam activation. However, having played the demo I have to say I'm mightily impressed and will be putting my order in after all.

They just cant win

I think in the commercial world it is impracticle to think that a game can continue to evolve without income coming in every year. I too think the game only improves every two years but missing revenue every other year would not work.

I can understand the OP frustration. The new features are nice, but the ME is really the primary focus of the game. Given that the people at SI have regularly admitted the limitations/hard coded features of the match engine, it can be frustrating to be still limited for another year. I get the feeling that the current ME has evolved about as far as it can go. I will probably buy FM2012 with the hope that a new ME is already in development. I believe it would take two years to really get a new ME to a playable state, and I think the current one has run its course.

The rival transfers bug is STILL in the game, and that bugs me a lot.

Fm 12 is much better just for the new PI. Also i have noticed more goals and higher ratings which I like alot

Yes.That's why i'm not buying.

why the game is more updared the layout is better to, but some people need to see the game is football its only going to change about 10% each thng but 90% of the game will be the same.

What was wrong with the match engine before? If it ain't broke....

We're paying for team talks, contract negotiation lock-ins, the tone system, add/remove leagues, better stats + analysis & more.

Well worth the cash in my honest opinion.

Just curious, but have you played the demo yet?

Then there's the red FM2012 logo this year.

Clearly you have not tried the demo or read any of the blogs.

The ME might be the same but the rest of the game is not.

His full quote:

To be honest we didn't really keep one as pretty much all the changes were relating to stuff like animations and other under the bonnet components. I tend to keep these logs updated for AI changes but apart from toning down keepers handling outside their area there weren't really any.

Our main focus was improving the 3D element for FM2012 while also working on longer term ME stuff that won't see the light of day until next year at the earliest.

The upside of this is that we don't have a ME that needs patching and is very much road tested 'out of the box'.

And as there's already a thread about the match engine that Paul himself is taking part in, I'm closing this one.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277881-FM-12-Match-Engine-Thoughts