The "ideal" level of aggression

Obviously nobody wants their players to get sent off all the time, and when they do get sent off for playing needlessly aggressively you can steer your player's habits by disciplining him, which will occasionally cause the player to adjust his game and his aggression attribute will drop a notch. However, I'm sure we would agree that a team that lacked any aggression at all would find things difficult.

I just found myself in a position where I wanted to discipline my player for his transgression but at the same time I wanted him to maintain his level of aggression. He is a defensive midfielder with Aggression 14 and I felt that I want him to maintain some of his bite.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what would be an "ideal" level for this attribute for DMs and perhaps DCs as well?

I don't like to go above 15 for aggression personally. I have no statistics or theories about this really, just a personal preference.

My guess is that for defensive players like that the ideal would be around 12. Aggressive enough to intimidate the opponents a little bit, but not get sent off regularly. A bit less for players without defensive responsibilities.

But I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Wasn't there in the past a different hidden attribute for "bad" aggression (recklessness), with the visible aggression being "good" (controlled aggressiveness)?

Agressiveness is balanced by the 'sportsmanship' hidden stat I thought.

The problem is that if you don't fine them you'll get some players unhappy by the lack of discipline in the club.

I think it's different for every player. If you feel they get too many cards, fine them until they reach an acceptable level. For Daniel Alves(RB, medium tackling) in my team this meant 15. Mascherano(DMC, hard tackling) also has high aggression but didn't receive too many cards.

I've never found it made a difference. The red cards just seem to rotate around the positions and randomly pick a player. All of my players get a handful of red cards in their careers, never excessive amounts, but never 0 either. Virtually never see someone pick up 5 yellows in a season because I use easy tackling and they're clean players, just random violence.

It makes more sense to have dirty players and cleaner players, but it just seems everyone is about the same.

It has a lot to do with Tackling, a player with Tackling 15 and Aggression 20 will receive less cards than player with Tackling 5 and Aggression 15. The first one will tackle more aggresively, but he'll be able to take the ball and not the man because his tackling technique will be better than if he had only 5 in this attribute.

Agressiveness is balanced by the 'sportsmanship' hidden stat I thought.

"Dirtiness" is the bad hidden attribute you're thinking of here. Sportsmanship = cheating. Suarez should have a low Dirtiness att but 1 for Sportsmanship.

I'd give John Terry a high Aggression attribute, but he's not a dirty player (ON the field, I mean!)

"Dirtiness" is the bad hidden attribute you're thinking of here. Sportsmanship = cheating. Suarez should have a low Dirtiness att but 1 for Sportsmanship.

I'd give John Terry a high Aggression attribute, but he's not a dirty player (ON the field, I mean!)

I personally think Terry IS dirty on the field as well.

i'm playing as tiki-taka arsenal and my DM Alex Song just got a red. would it be better if his aggression went down from 14 to 13 or instead of getting reds, would he just be a passenger when we're behind? he's a slow player so i think he's liable to mistiming hard tackles even though he has 14 in decisions and 16 in tackling. i normally don't like defensive players to have high aggression because they cause fouls in dangerous areas and get sent off often.

Phnompenhandy has it right. I would want aggression as high as possible unless the player showed he probably has a high dirtiness attribute.

Aggression

This reflects a player’s attitude in terms of playing mentality but is not necessarily a dirtiness indicator. A more aggressive player will look to involve himself in every incident and get stuck in, perhaps at the expense of a yellow card or two. A less aggressive player may shy away from situations and merely drop into his comfort zone.

(online manual http://www.footballmanager.com/webmanual/fm2012/11.2. )

High Aggression and high Decisions is a good combo, then the player will know when to charge.

I don't rate bravery, aggression, long throws, natural fitness as important attributes AT ALL. Of course you don't want below 11 for the mental ones, and natural fitness will play a part in how a player ages, but I try to keep my first team between the ages of 22-29, so its not crucial by any means. And of course if you have a CB with good jumping, good heading, and even good positioning and tackling, you don't want him to have a 6 for bravery, because then he won't be much use.

Important attributes regardless of position, IMO, determination, decisions, pace (and acceleration), composure. Might not be a recipe for success in the lower leagues (haven't spent much time there myself) but for trophy winning teams this is my recipe for success.

High aggression also means in-training injuries. My RB (Srna) with high aggression put my back up RB out for 8 months, destroying his career. I guess he really wanted to be in the first team.

heh, I prefer my players to sit at the "Vinnie Jones" level of aggression.

In reality, it's more than just aggression, good decisions, determination, positioning and tackling are all important too.

I'm starting to not even bother with the aggression stat anymore. I just wait and see if my scout indicates that they are dirty or not, because it seems that no matter if they have 5 aggression or 15 aggression you still get random acts of insanity with the use of the 2 footed challenge. Frustrating. I've even seen it where a player commited a two footer, got sent off, got fined 2 weeks wages, aggression went down, sat out those 3 matches, then came back and within 20 minutes BAM he tries to break somebodys legs again!

^you could set your player to always tackle easy, but there are many reasons and influences for why players resort to high risk challenges. e.g. when your team is behind and they need to regain possession, when your team and player is outnumbered/out of position and if the player has low morale/handles pressure badly.

when those situations occur, even low aggression players make desperate tackles.

I have a striker with 9 for aggression but still dives into tackles from behind when he doesn't need too. He's our main striker, he doesn't need to tackle. I've set his tackling to low and closing down low aswell, but he still keeps it up. He must have a high dirtiness attribute then, but as he's a goal machine I have no need to move him on.

The higher his aggression, the better his other attributes have to be to compliment it.

Yeah. 20 aggression is the best for any player, provided they also know when to deploy it and have the skill to do so fairly.

If I had to choose between a player with 20 aggression and bravery or a player with 20 determination and decisions I would choose the latter, every time.

Most of my players have Aggression below 10. Fourteen (out of 32) have between 10 and 15, and only has has 19. And it works well - they don't pick up many cards, but still do what they're expect defensively.

If I had to choose between a player with 20 aggression and bravery or a player with 20 determination and decisions I would choose the latter, every time.

Imagine if he had all 4. (and a few others just to help out)

*Brain explodes*

Imagine if he had all 4. (and a few others just to help out)

wtf is this about. after i gravedug this thread and posted about alex song, in the next two matches i had another two players commit violent tackles leading to red cards. even though i always fine each player the maximum i can and condemn those fouls...

"Dirtiness" is the bad hidden attribute you're thinking of here.

Many forget this, problem is it is hidden and you must understand it through stats

I don't rate bravery, aggression as important attributes AT ALL.

Regarding aggression it depends on style of playing, if you close down you need it.

I don't like to go above 15 for aggression personally. I have no statistics or theories about this really, just a personal preference.

I do love it, instead. Those defenders react better to strikers and seems to have glue on strikers when performing well.

Try a midfield with aggressive players and put some closing down. Much more effective.

When I'm in search for a Central Defender I allways pay attention to the following skills :

Tackling >>> at least 14

Marking >>> at least 14

Positioning >>> at least 13

Anticipation >>> at least 13

Bravery >>> at least 12

Aggression >>> at least 12

Determination >>> at least 12

Decisions >>> at least 12

Work rate >>> at least 12

Concentration >>> at least 12

I don't know if "Composure" has any real effect at a defender (when defending ofc) .

At Physical part this is what I believe it's best :

Acceleration and Pace >>> at least 11

Jumping >>> at least 14

Strength >>> at least 13

Stamina >>> at least 12

Balance >>> at least 13

Agility >>> at least 10

And as for the hidden attributes :

Ambition and Pressure >>> at least 13

Consistency and Important matches >>> at least 13

Professional >>> at least 13 (in my experience , this attribute proved it's self important in the matches against lower rated teams ... attrition games)

Temperament >>> as far as i've seen , this attribute is somewhat important for all players . I've seen players with low temperament doing reckless tacklings in unimportant areas of the field ; also , I had a striker with high attribute in Decisions , Finishing , Composure , -Pressure- , -Ambition- , but low temperament ... which in many key occasions at 1vs1 with the GK ... his shot ended up outside of the field , even dough he had high -pressure- ; comparative to another striker I had with high Finishing , Composure , Decisions , -Pressure- , -Ambition- , -Temperament- ... he just sucked .

Dirtiness (I haven't been given the opportunity to test it properly , but i believe it's about the players with high attribute at this to simulate when being faulted or hitting the opponent without the referee seeing it ; correct me if I'm wrong) , Sportmanship (I don't really know what does this apply for) , Loyalty , controversy (idk what does it do) , adaptability (it's good to have it high , for that he'd blend into your squad right away after you signed him >>> the don't seem too important to me ; but ofc , the higher ... the best .

I know it's pretty hard to find players with such attributes/abilities/skills ... but when u do .. thrust me they ain't gonna let you down . I assume they appear latter in the game ... in 3-4 years after you start the game ... that's when a lot of this kind of players appeared in my games .

I hope at least some of you find this useful .

Aggression is a must for my center backs and defensive midfielders, I feel its essential in that they will assert themselves on their opponents, I don't really care whether they are booked as long as they don't get sent off. I'm perfectly happy to play dirty to win, especially against a certain duo of Spanish teams I hate with a passion. Its optional for players in other positions though.

I think anywhere between 10 to 16 would be ideal for Aggression.

I have a defensive midfielder with 16 aggression. Coupled with good work rate and tackling, he protects the defence very well and is often ranked top of the division charts in average number of successful tackles per game.

Depends on dirtiness and temperament and sportsmanship. With 1 20 20 in those three in that order, 20 aggression is fine. It really depends on the attributes you can't see, which makes determining those attributes important. Also concentration and composure - nobody wants unfocused wild fury.

Players with low sportsmanship essentially don't care about the rules (ie, diving, professional fouls) . Players with high dirtiness like sticking the boot in (cynical and vicious fouls).

Also, composure is important for literally everything.