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View Full Version : Is it just me or has FM gone Easier?



fmobande
07-10-2011, 19:42
why has Football Manager gone easier? , i love the game i absolutely love the features in the game , but its easyier , there is no logical thinking needed as much as the previous previous games i end up winning games without even trying which gets me angry instead of happy, because i rather win actually knowing im the one making my team win. , i thought being a manager was a type of job where you would use your brain and solve problems etc, im not comparing this to real life completely, but come on ? , at least but a difficulty setting for them type of FM player which want a challenge?

laxinthe303
07-10-2011, 19:45
Who are you managing? In real life *I* could manage Man U and win the EPL.

Ackter
07-10-2011, 19:46
This thread is started with every single release of FM and it usually leads to quite a good discussion on difficulty levels, so let's get it started:

How would you like to see difficulty levels implemented into FM? What would they do, exactly (ie how would they make the game harder or easier)?

KUBI
07-10-2011, 19:47
This thread is started with every single release of FM and it usually leads to quite a good discussion on difficulty levels, so let's get it started:

How would you like to see difficulty levels implemented into FM? What would they do, exactly (ie how would they make the game harder or easier)?

One could be a level on which you can't go on holiday before the match. ;)

Ackter
07-10-2011, 19:49
One could be a level on which you can't go on holiday before the match. ;)

Go On Holiday can be considered as a way of making the game easier, I suppose. Though you'd have to get yourself a damn good ass man to get the best out of it.

It's this kind of thing that could be added to the game to help make it easier, where you'd give more and more to your backroom staff if you find yourself struggling with it, but when it comes to making the game harder, how would it be accomplished?

fmobande
07-10-2011, 19:50
Who are you managing? In real life *I* could manage Man U and win the EPL.
you may think its that simple just because of the man united team , but to be fair alex ferguson is a experienced manager who knows how to control , manage , operate and process the areas of the Manchester united football club e.g transfers , tactics etc. you would actually need to be skilled to manage united.

fmobande
07-10-2011, 19:51
This thread is started with every single release of FM and it usually leads to quite a good discussion on difficulty levels, so let's get it started:

How would you like to see difficulty levels implemented into FM? What would they do, exactly (ie how would they make the game harder or easier)?

just make the A.I smarter , i want to feel like i am putting enough effort in the team, but sometimes in football manger i feel even if i dont put that effort i would still win

im just saying in long term seasons and shorterm , you dont even need to be a good manager to win games or win seasons , when you become a good club in the premier ship , you can be a horrible manager and still win matches , and when your a low team for example a blue square team , in about 6 seasons ull probably end up in the champoinship, because A.I becomes dumb

Ackter
07-10-2011, 19:52
How would they be smarter? In what way would they change to give the challenge you're after?

KUBI
07-10-2011, 19:53
Go On Holiday can be considered as a way of making the game easier, I suppose. Though you'd have to get yourself a damn good ass man to get the best out of it.

It's this kind of thing that could be added to the game to help make it easier, where you'd give more and more to your backroom staff if you find yourself struggling with it, but when it comes to making the game harder, how would it be accomplished?

I think the main point that makes managing a football club harder is pressure. The more ambition the club the more pressure. From everywhere, fans, media, board, even players. A lot more interaction, a lot more to do for a good dressing room atmosphere. The second one is simple: a better AI, computer managers with more brain when doing transfers and team building. :)

Ackter
07-10-2011, 19:54
But a better AI wouldn't be a difficulty level - it would be gameplay balancing.

Barside
07-10-2011, 19:55
There are plenty of ways to make the game more difficult if that is what you are after.

Try playing on another continent, start with a bankrupt team, follow the challenges or LLM ways of playing. As with all games there are ways to make it easy or hard & it's up to the gamer to avoid the easy path if that is too boring.

ArranoBeltza
07-10-2011, 19:59
I do believe FM has gotten easier, but, that being said, I feel like it's also more intuitive and realistic.

In FM09 (the first FM I played), I couldn't figure anything out- I played as Spurs and couldn't even win friendlies against weak teams. I downloaded tactics others had created, but never really got very good and never quite got into that version.

However, with FM10 and FM11 (and now with 12), I find it much easier to create my tactics and give instructions. Even though it's easier, though, it just makes more sense: it's much easier just to set a player as a target-man than to move a slider that doesn't have any labeling or anything "three clicks to the right" while moving another "two clicks to the right". Not only that, it just makes more sense: managers use players to their strengths, they don't say "okay: I want you to go out there and, y'know, give me like a 3-out-of-ten for aggression but give me a 7 out-of-ten for creativity." Instead of pausing and ****ing around with sliders, I can just go to a drop-down menu and tell my team to get the ball forward, exploit the flanks, and push higher up.

Further, when I create a tactic that I like and that works, I try to find players that fit into it. If I get a good player but he doesn't fit the same role that the guy he is replacing did, I don't have to sit there and think about sliders, I just change that slot from Target-man to complete fwd, for example.



So: easier, yes. But it makes a helluva lot more sense and makes the game more intuitive and accessible, while also making it more realistic.

KUBI
07-10-2011, 20:00
But a better AI wouldn't be a difficulty level - it would be gameplay balancing.

The whole media, board, player interaction part could make the difference. A level "more interaction" could be a difficulty level.

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:01
I dont want to be forced to become a LLM team to make the game easier, i shud be challenged even when being a premiership team .

KUBI
07-10-2011, 20:02
There are plenty of ways to make the game more difficult if that is what you are after.

Try playing on another continent, start with a bankrupt team, follow the challenges or LLM ways of playing. As with all games there are ways to make it easy or hard & it's up to the gamer to avoid the easy path if that is too boring.

That's not the point. The game becomes easier after two or three seasons with the same club. That's not very realistic. Itīs a in-game problem that could be either addressed with a better AI or some kind of difficulty levels.

ArranoBeltza
07-10-2011, 20:02
I dont want to be forced to become a LLM team to make the game easier, i shud be challenged even when being a premiership team .

Play as Athletic Club Bilbao :thup:

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:06
why do i have to be a certain team ?

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:08
at the end of the day it is the A.I if you think about it? the A.I is the whole point, the A.I needs to be improved at a point where it isn't Easy for the user

Barside
07-10-2011, 20:11
I dont want to be forced to become a LLM team to make the game easier, i shud be challenged even when being a premiership team .If you want to play as a club with loads of money then you have to accept that the game will be easier.

Also you do not need to play in the lower leagues if that doesn't interest you but maybe refrain from some of the ways that you build your sqaud/tactics.

Do you use the player search function to find all the best players?
Do you buy the same players every time because you know they are good?
Is attribute masking on?
Have you downloaded tactics &or training schedules?


That's not the point. The game becomes easier after two or three seasons with the same club. That's not very realistic. Itīs a in-game problem that could be either addressed with a better AI or some kind of difficulty levels.
You know that there are a number of players who spend a lifetime in the lower leagues, yes they could make it easier by exploiting the games weaknesses but they chose not to.

At the end of the day this is just a piece of number crunching software that cannot under any circumstance be more intelligent than a human, eventually flaws & methods to improve the odds of victory will be found, for me it's up to the player to decide if they want to take advantage of these flaws. How many people used Diablo & would then complain that they are bored?

KUBI
07-10-2011, 20:15
If you want to play as a club with loads of money then you have to accept that the game will be easier.


So it's easier to manage Manchester City than Walsall in real football? I don't think so. There is a lot more pressure for Mancini, while in fm you just buy all the good players and build up the next Champions League winner in 2 seasons at least. The more ambition the club the more difficult should it be to manage, especially man management.

Barside
07-10-2011, 20:19
So it's easier to manage Manchester City than Walsall in real football? I don't think so. There is a lot more pressure for Mancini, while in fm you just buy all the good players and build up the next Champions League winner in 2 seasons at least. The more ambition the club the more difficult should it be to manage, especially man management.

The average time employed as a L1 manager against ta of a Premier league manager would suggest that it is.

I guess SI need to employ you to code their AI, obviously it is very easy to do. What you can't do though is simply ramp up the media & fan pressure as that will lead to another person posting that the game is too hard, this is a form of entertainment for players of varying ability & a happy median has to be offered, you can't be all things to all men.

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:21
If you want to play as a club with loads of money then you have to accept that the game will be easier.

Also you do not need to play in the lower leagues if that doesn't interest you but maybe refrain from some of the ways that you build your sqaud/tactics.

Do you use the player search function to find all the best players?
Do you buy the same players every time because you know they are good?
Is attribute masking on?
Have you downloaded tactics &or training schedules?


You know that there are a number of players who spend a lifetime in the lower leagues, yes they could make it easier by exploiting the games weaknesses but they chose not to.

At the end of the day this is just a piece of number crunching software that cannot under any circumstance be more intelligent than a human, eventually flaws & methods to improve the odds of victory will be found, for me it's up to the player to decide if they want to take advantage of these flaws. How many people used Diablo & would then complain that they are bored?
yeah i understand being a big team means big money etc.
Yes i use search
Yes i buy the same players
yes its on
I did download a training schedule once

KUBI
07-10-2011, 20:22
The average time employed as a L1 manager against ta of a Premier league manager would suggest that it is.

I guess SI need to employ you to code their AI, obviously it is very easy to do. What you can't do though is simply ramp up the media & fan pressure as that will lead to another person posting that the game is too hard, this is a form of entertainment for players of varying ability & a happy median has to be offered, you can't be all things to all men.

That's why I did think about an option for more "interaction", for all of those who want a more realistic pressure.

Barside
07-10-2011, 20:22
I wise man once said that repetition is the definition of insanity, if you use the same methods each time you play why would you expect the difficulty level to increase let alone remain stagnant?

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:23
If you want to play as a club with loads of money then you have to accept that the game will be easier.

Also you do not need to play in the lower leagues if that doesn't interest you but maybe refrain from some of the ways that you build your sqaud/tactics.

Do you use the player search function to find all the best players?
Do you buy the same players every time because you know they are good?
Is attribute masking on?
Have you downloaded tactics &or training schedules?
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it shouldn't be that easy though , because there is also other BIG teams in your league? so why should it be easy for me? and the answer is because of the A.I , letting me surprisingly defeat them, even if i don't put any effort , i Want the A.I to be SMART

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:26
The average time employed as a L1 manager against ta of a Premier league manager would suggest that it is.

I guess SI need to employ you to code their AI, obviously it is very easy to do. What you can't do though is simply ramp up the media & fan pressure as that will lead to another person posting that the game is too hard, this is a form of entertainment for players of varying ability & a happy median has to be offered, you can't be all things to all men.

They already should know that a game thats based on Managing a football club to success will require some effort?, i think there should just be an option where you can change the difficulty.

Ackter
07-10-2011, 20:30
They already should know that a game thats based on Managing a football club to success will require some effort?, i think there should just be an option where you can change the difficulty.

Again, how would you do that? What would it do?

Bearing in mind that everything you do to the AI will also have an effect on the human managers - FM has never been programmed as Human vs AI, it's been programmed as a self-sustaining world of football where a human manager can take the place of one of the AI managers.

Barside
07-10-2011, 20:37
There are always online games, put yourself forward to join a clan to pit your skills against other human managers.

I knew there was a 'this game is too hard thread (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276951-unrealistically-hard-again)'

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:44
Idk why you keep asking How would you do it? and what would it do? , its just like asking a customer how would they improve the battery life of an ipod, its up to the producer to do that, they recieve the feedback and information and then they use there expertise and skills to find a way past that problem

fmobande
07-10-2011, 20:44
Again, how would you do that? What would it do?

Bearing in mind that everything you do to the AI will also have an effect on the human managers - FM has never been programmed as Human vs AI, it's been programmed as a self-sustaining world of football where a human manager can take the place of one of the AI managers.

Idk why you keep asking How would you do it? and what would it do? , its just like asking a customer how would they improve the battery life of an ipod, its up to the producer to do that, they recieve the feedback and information and then they use there expertise and skills to find a way past that problem

Ackter
07-10-2011, 20:45
Then this thread serves no purpose and it may as well be closed.

There's a demo feedback thread for you to say it's too easy in.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276659-Football-Manager-2012-Demo-*OFFICIAL*-Feedback-Thread