The Hype Surrounding FM2012...

I must admit, I am not as excited as some about the new FM game comming out. It's always fun when a new game is comming out, but what is it exactly that FM2012 is bringing that is worth all the hype? I remember when CM turned into FM there was a big change (the ME), but looking down the line these big changes are few and far appart. FM 2011, let's admit it, was a little like having scrambled eggs - the 'new feature', which was the Match Preparation, never really created any topics that held any qualified talk and still today it is fairly grey. No one could really see what difference it actually made appart from if the workload was on medium then training didn't increase player attributes.

Let's look at what exactly FM 2012 is bringing this time around. After looking at all the blogs I can't see any big change in comparison to FM2011. We can hardly say that 'converstaion tones' is a new feature because in reality it is simply adding more questions to the whole interation section. It has a limited fun element and I wasn't totally crazy about the way it was implemented to start with, so for me it would just be expanding on that. In the team talk section, it is hard for me to understand that it actually has been revamped. Last game we could see the morale effects once the game started in a separate screen, now it is just available in an other screen. In a way it is simply moving things from one screen/platform to another - kind of like cleaning up in a programmers head. I think that easier access to information we need to use for future reference is the least we can expect...

In the tactic section there has been a change that is a long time comming - namely being able to have a certain individual instruction for a certain player so when you use the sub option you don't have to change all the instructions for the new player (note: just found out it was wishfull thinking :o). Appart from that, we have 4 new shouts. The bottom line is that it is still the same ME, the whole strategy system is still in place - which a lot of gamers still don't know how to use judging by most of the tactical talk over in the T&T...

For an old dog like me, the changes this time around looks more like the changes in the game have happened more on the surface. All the deep-lying mechanisms are going to be basically the same as it has been the last couple of versions. The TC settings has always been there since the introduction of the new ME as we could basically make the changes ourself (if we knew how to do so). The TC was a good introduction as it didn't make the game so mechanical (the sliders) and brought words (roles/duties) to the reality, but honestly - not many have become more wise to how the value of the settings & shouts actually work in the ME.

I can't exactly say that I am blown away by the hype surrounding FM2012. I think it would be interresting to hear what some of the other community members think, because I could be wrong...

Actually, I'm very excited with the release of FM2012. More than the launch was the FM2011.

In part I agree with you, there are no substantive changes in this year's version, and perhaps many of the new features are cosmestics more than anything else, but still, I think it'll be a game that I'll have much pleasure to play.

FM2011 was perhaps the version of FM which I had more hours of fun, and with these new features that will be implemented guaranteed, at least for me, a much more fun.

I understand that maybe for some people, a version of FM without radically innovative features, can be a disappointment. And I respect that. However, for me, the little innovations have always been very important, and if so, what has been announced for this year's version, its more than enough to leave pretty anxious for the release.

Personally I think you are spot on with what you are saying...

Im going into the release with an open mind, I hope the added features blow me away instead of just getting on my nerves.

i personally think it looks great, it was going to take a lot to drag me away from my FM11 save and until the last few blogs i wasnt convinced, i dont move around a lot so the any league any time thing isnt a biggy for me, but in reality its a huge fundamental change to the way the game works, almost as big as the 3d or TC coming out. The tone feature is the one i am excited about, i love micro managing so i will be making full use of that feature! Team meetings will be cool and i am looking forward to watching the updated ME, roll on friday!!

I'm not blown away by the hype. I'm blown away by what I've heard about FM12

Looks like a vintage year to me.

FM 2012 is the least feature-rich FM release I've seen since I started playing the game (FM 2005). I'm hoping this isn't a sign of SI getting more... erm... "passive" with its game design. Rather I hope one of two things:

1. That this is a more polished, less buggy release.

or/and

2. That next year's FM is an "all-new" game.

Incremental updates are just fine when the game has reached a certain level. Think the game in its current revision/build is as good as it can get so the changes wont be massive just polished. I'm looking forward to the 3D touch ups if I'm honest.

I'm not hyped.. I just want to play FM.. :,)

Having (now regretfully) skipped FM2011, I'm actually really looking forward to FM2012. Demo can't come out quick enough!

Being able to take the demo save into the actual game, and then add more leagues, in many ways means the game is actually released this weekend, for the casual gamer who won't complete the 6 months demo version in the next 2 weeks

The ability to snap in/out leagues really has got me excited for the new game. My longest career game is about 10 years, I can see this feature (along with improved newgens) stretching that out to 15 years or more. That is a lot of gameplay and, along with other minor new features, makes it a definite purchase.

Mainly cosmetic changes this year, personally, the adding leagues feature is not a big issue for me at all, but it doesn't matter, I'm sticking with FM11 because of...other reasons. I would still expect it'll need to be patched, just like any other previous version of FM.

FM 2012 is the least feature-rich FM release I've seen since I started playing the game (FM 2005). I'm hoping this isn't a sign of SI getting more... erm... "passive" with its game design. Rather I hope one of two things:

1. That this is a more polished, less buggy release.

or/and

2. That next year's FM is an "all-new" game.

From what I've seen in the blogs, this year's addition is quite the opposite of what you've said - lots of new features that look to be trying to make it a much better playing experience.

I'm with the OP. So far it just looks like a polish, and none of the "new features" actually stand out. I really don't get the hype over the tones especially. This appears to just separate the questions we already had into sections, with perhaps a few new ones. Player chats in FM11 were terrible, often making no sense at all, and all these tones will do is add to the confusion.

At no point do they mention that player chats have been fixed, instead it will just be glossed over with these tones.

The match viewer blog was pretty basic, adding a couple of referee hand signals is hardly mind blowing.

The only thing that might make this game better than FM11 is the add/remove leagues function, but only if it works well. The blog didn't really explainthe long-term effects of this and whether competition histories would be recorded if you remove a league and then add it back a few years later, still waiting for that to be answered in the blog feedback thread.

Also still waiting on news on the editor, important changes to this could decide if and when I buy FM12.

I agree with the OP, but I'm still excited as it's a "new" FM I was happy with FM11, so not too disappointed at the lack of "big" additions or features. Seems to be a more refined version, which is fine by me so long as it works! Hopefully means they're still working on the bells and whistles features which should be extra awesome as they have had another year to fine tune them for FM13.

I actually think FM11 was pretty great to be honest. Not sure why the OP is bashing Match Preperation. I've used it lots, tinkered with it lots, and had the appropriate results. (i.e. once went on a 6 match losing run before realising that i'd saved the game with Attacking Movement ticked for a one off cup game before loading - Whoops!). Dynamic league reputation was also a big step in the right direction - a lot of things were under the hood, or not obvious, but in the long term - and with appropriate tweaks by FM12 - is an outstanding feature.

As for FM12 - There appears to be lots of good stuff under the hood. The ability to add and remove leagues is fantastic to long term gamers like myself. The tone system and the ability to call team meetings will affect the experience no end. In short every year it's stepping closer and closer to the ultimate thing - actually being Gary Megson or Sir Alex. Top stuff.

Just to clarify on this, the team talk reactions themselves have never been shown "live" in FM prior to FM12. I think you are referring to the player motivation listings that are available in the match screens, but these are just general observations about the player and they are not directly linked to the team talks since there are a lot of factors that go into the general motivation of a player during a match.

In FM12 on the team talk screen, you'll see the actual reactions to the team talk itself that was just given and you can then try and rectify the situation with certain players via the individual team talk if necessary.

I understand that, but to say it has been revamped is a little too strong a word in my book. If it was going on underneath it all, then it is still conceivable that it has simply moved from one platform to another. It is a natural addition if you look at it in one way, because in the real world when you pee someone off you pretty much know it straight away. Here we have the option to rectify it, which in a way is pretty cool - I don't know how realistic that is compared to the real game of football because in the changing room at half time, for example, you don't really have time to have personal conversations with people - tactical changes & the fact that they got to go out and do their jobs is mostly on the menu. One saying that the other players usually always say when someone is kicking up a tantrum in the changing room is "shut up and pass the ball"...

I glad that you didn't tear my other points appart, though...

As for FM12 - There appears to be lots of good stuff under the hood. The ability to add and remove leagues is fantastic to long term gamers like myself. The tone system and the ability to call team meetings will affect the experience no end. In short every year it's stepping closer and closer to the ultimate thing - actually being Gary Megson or Sir Alex. Top stuff.

I agree that there is probably more under the hood that won't be mentioned in the blogs. And judging by Miles' tweet lastnight, there is probably some not-so-under-the-hood stuff that won't be mentioned in the blogs too!

Just to clarify on this, the team talk reactions themselves have never been shown "live" in FM prior to FM12. I think you are referring to the player motivation listings that are available in the match screens, but these are just general observations about the player and they are not directly linked to the team talks since there are a lot of factors that go into the general motivation of a player during a match.

In FM12 on the team talk screen, you'll see the actual reactions to the team talk itself that was just given and you can then try and rectify the situation with certain players via the individual team talk if necessary.

What use will 99% "no reaction" be in this screen?

When looking at the post-match team talk reports there were very rarely any reactions to the team talks, even though players were sometimes nervous, complacent, motivated or fired up in the match anyway.

So there were reactions, just not anything measurable in the report. How useful is that?

I agree that there is probably more under the hood that won't be mentioned in the blogs. And judging by Miles' tweet lastnight, there is probably some not-so-under-the-hood stuff that won't be mentioned in the blogs too!

I doubt there is anything major, or they would be using these as the big selling points.

I get the feeling that they are struggling for ideas to improve an already great game, so have tacked on last minute ideas like tones and selling these as the big new features.

I guess, personally, there are more changes to look forward to, seeing as I gave FM2011 a miss.

Perhaps for comparison: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/221267-Football-Manager-2011-official-announcement

FM11 announced DLR as the "biggie" feature. Then there were a number of "relatively minor" improvements to the match-engine, player/staff/board interaction, training and media.

FM12 does feel in the same spirit - one big one (career mode), and a number of improvements to smaller features such as interaction, GUI, social networking and the match viewer.

I guess, personally, there are more changes to look forward to, seeing as I gave FM2011 a miss.

For sure, if you're going from FM10 to FM12 you will certainly notice the difference.

I like to look of FM2012 from what ive read and seen, its looking to be one of the best and i love the new GUI changes so we have more feedback and info on screen.

I've bought every release since CM2 but i may not buy this years.

The game can feel like its too much work sometimes....maybe the increased feedback will help with that, but that along with the lack of any actual tactics changes, its still the same fairly rigid tactic system it has been for a while have dampened my enthusiasm for the game.

I will try out the demo though and it may change my mind.

Perhaps for comparison: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/221267-Football-Manager-2011-official-announcement

FM11 announced DLR as the "biggie" feature. Then there were a number of "relatively minor" improvements to the match-engine, player/staff/board interaction, training and media.

FM12 does feel in the same spirit - one big one (career mode), and a number of improvements to smaller features such as interaction, GUI, social networking and the match viewer.

For many people I think dynamic searching will feel like a huge advance.

It doesn't look like they've done anything ground-breaking with FM12, just polished it up and eliminated lots of small things in FM11 that annoyed me. This is all good in my view

For me i think its cause i didn't buy fm11 and i'm just bored with the way FM 10 is, so looking forward to starting a brand new game on FM12, just hope it lives up to the hype.

Surely players can be nervous, complacent, motivated or fired up during the match for other reasons than just the team talk ? Like I explained above, the motivational widgets in the match will display the overall observations about the player and the way he is playing which is affected by numerous factors, not just team talks. Whereas the "body language" column in the new team talk screen will display observations linked only to the team talk given there and then.

Team talks are not some magical one-for-all tool to control your players' mood and motivation, although judging from some past feedback on the forums a lot of people seem to think the team talks are all-powerful like that

So what are the actual links between that "body language" column and the performance/motivational widgets during the match?

I mean, what's the use being able to see the "effects" of the team talk immediately instead of after the match, when the information given after the match in FM11 was of no consequence whatsoever? ... And when, as you say, the team talk (with the noted "effects" mind you) is only one of many factors influencing motivation, most of which are either random or hidden (or both)?

I have bought them all since CM 1 and I've already ordered FM12 but I do agree that this version seems to be just a tweaked up FM11. Who cares as it's still the best Football Management game out there. But the biggie this year was tones.... isn't that just an extension of all the repetitive chat? Who know? paly around with it and find out for yourself within the game. I for one am desperate to beging playing the Demo and then the full game.

I actually think FM11 was pretty great to be honest. Not sure why the OP is bashing Match Preperation. I've used it lots, tinkered with it lots, and had the appropriate results. (i.e. once went on a 6 match losing run before realising that i'd saved the game with Attacking Movement ticked for a one off cup game before loading - Whoops!). Dynamic league reputation was also a big step in the right direction - a lot of things were under the hood, or not obvious, but in the long term - and with appropriate tweaks by FM12 - is an outstanding feature.

As for FM12 - There appears to be lots of good stuff under the hood. The ability to add and remove leagues is fantastic to long term gamers like myself. The tone system and the ability to call team meetings will affect the experience no end. In short every year it's stepping closer and closer to the ultimate thing - actually being Gary Megson or Sir Alex. Top stuff.

+1 I enjoyed FM11 but I felt it lacked the immersion factor that FM10 had. A lot of the features mentioned haves far allayed my fears that it would be the same, and when you add the improvements to the ME it's left me very excited about the release. It feels like it's going to be a more complete experience, and that for me is nothing but good news.

The fact that FM12 has less new features is a good thing, because it must surely mean that existing features are being modified and improved. That is in theory anyway. There is not too much more that FM needs to introduce to the player anyway.

I'm excited about this years release. The tone system looks complicated but vital at the same time.

As others have said, the only real change is adding/removing leagues. If I remember correctly, that's been one of the most requested features for years. I, personally, had never believed it would be implemented and, quite frankly, am a bit sceptical as to how will it work exactly. Fingers crossed it's what we wanted, and not some half baked notion of it.

The 2nd big(ger) change seems to be tone, but, as OP said, it's not that big, really. It just adds a few more options and people will use it in the same way as before. There will be those who will gradually learn what to say to each of their players and thus exploit it from that point onwards. There will be people who will claim they found a universal solution for all situations regardless of players. There will also be those who will be absolutely confused and frustrated with it.

From what I've seen so far, the documentation on team talks will be equally inadequate which will lead people to trial and error again, without properly understanding what's going on.

Also, when someone from SI comes, like in this thread, and says "team talks are not the only thing influencing players motivation in a match" and adds a winky smile at the end, it doesn't really help. We still don't know (and are unlikely to find out) what are those other things that influence it.

We still don't know (and are unlikely to find out) what are those other things that influence it.

Moral

Form (including personal and team form)

Size of game (which includes the competition your game is in ie FA cup or champs league)

Opposition

Winning bonuses

Incidents that happen during the game, either for or against your team, including goals, heavy tackles ect

Media Interaction by the managers including press conferences and opposition managers talking about your players

Private chats that include, match performance, form and transfer status

Transfer situations can affect your players performance again for and against you, players may want to impress managers or feel effected by the pressure.

Right, I stand corrected. I got the impression that there was much more than those logical things.

I still stand by what I said in the first 3 paragraph of my post.

I'm fairly sure I didn't say that the team talk effects were "of no consequence whatsoever" in FM11. They weren't back then and they aren't in FM12. They can be one of the bigger factors attributing to things like player motivation and state of mind in certain cases, but they are not the one and only contributor.

You complained in an earlier post that players who had no reported reactions to the team talk still had some descriptions like "fired up" in their general motivational widgets during the match. Which is why I mentioned that there can be other reasons why the players were motivated etc. besides their reactions to team talks.

No you didn't. I did. EDIT: actually I didn't either. I said that the information given to me in the post-match team talk feedback was of no consequence whatsoever.

The questions are still valid, though:

1.What are the links between the information we get in the team talk feedback screen/column and the in-match motivation gadget, if any?

2. Will there still be mostly "nothing specific noted" in that column? Aka are there changes to the level of detail in this feature?

Media Interaction by the managers including press conferences and opposition managers talking about your players

Private chats that include, match performance, form and transfer status

My opinion that private chats is far important then media interaction, by far. I even dare to say among all there phrases you wrote Milnerpoint, media interaction is least influential of them all.

My opinion that private chats is far important then media interaction, by far. I even dare to say among all there phrases you wrote Milnerpoint, media interaction is least influential of them all.

The level of influence wasn't the question tho, your probably right but everything counts towards the end result.

It looks like a polish up as that's pretty much what you're going to get with annual releases. Especially when from Oct - Feb/Mar patches are worked on etc so SI can't throw all their resource at next version for the full 12 months between releases, no?

But the changing of amount and location of playable leagues AFTER game start is definitely new and welcome feature for me. The biggest since matches went 3D?

It would be interesting to put the question back to the SI team and gauge their views.

Do they think its more of a polished up game or do they see Fm 12 as a game with revolutionary new features .... It's all subject to opinion I guess.

It looks like a polish up as that's pretty much what you're going to get with annual releases. Especially when from Oct - Feb/Mar patches are worked on etc so SI can't throw all their resource at next version for the full 12 months between releases, no?

But the changing of amount and location of playable leagues AFTER game start is definitely new and welcome feature for me. The biggest since matches went 3D?

I would have personally said the DLR and the manage anytime are two of the biggest ever new features in FM, only behind the 3D animations and the TC.

This is just about the first version of the game I have not been hyped about. FM11 was a bad experience for me with a major bug that stopped me playing it. I went back to FM10 and am actually still playing it. I was eagerly waiting for FM12 as a saviour to FM11 but my hopes are just not there. I will be waiting until January and the third patch to fix the undoubtedly bugged game that will be released for us to test for the next few months.

Just a very quick thought. I wonder if the some of the people who are underwhelmed with this FM are the same people who were complaining about "too many new features!! & "they should concentrate on polishing the features they have got etc in FM11.

Looking forward to FM12. I bought FM11 but could never really part with my save in FM10 and didn't feel like starting again, but now I'm ready. I can't wait to feel a big step up, skipping a whole year of the game and engine changes. Not sure who I'll start off with, though.

I never get hyped about anything. I'm Victor Meldrew.

FM11 for me was great, mainly because of the Dynamic league rep. The thing im looking forward to in FM12 is being able to add/remove leagues whilst playing a save.