It is not always the tactics and Squad Strength

I was heaving trouble for my Reading team and had this discussion earlier http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274576-How-Important-is-the-reputitation-in-11.3?p=7074097#post7074097 .

However I figured out that it is not always the tactics and squad strenght that brings success. I started my career wit Reading. Lead them to Prem. Leauge through play-offs and barely avoid relegation at my first season. In my second season I started to feel that something was wrong. So I had the discussion that I post the link. Quit Reading after having 12 games with no 3 points. Here is the fixture : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/readingfixture.jpg/ And here is my tactics and best 11 with Reading:http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/readingbest11.jpg/

After around 11 months I started my Udinese career with Bologna win. Here is my Udinese fixture so far: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/udinesefixture.jpg/ And here is my Udinese tactics and best 11: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/udinesebest11.jpg/

So my conclusion is that my tactics and training was the same in both teams. Reading squad was stronger than Udinese Squad IMO. However with Udinese I have 8W 2D 1L so far. It is not the tactics and squad that bring success always. Some might argue that Udinese rep is higher then Reading, but Reading have more strenght and they should be more succesfull then Udinese IMO

Im a bit unsure what your point is here, could you elaborate a bit?

Maybe Udinese's players fit your tactic better than Reading's. No it is not all about tactics and squad strength. Team talks are in my opinion more important than both of those, and as a result of that player personalities, squad personality and your reputation among the players are at least as imporant as the tactic and squad strength per se.

I figured out that it is not always the tactics and squad strenght that brings success.

It is not the tactics and squad that bring success always

So what is the secret to success?

I think he's trying to save his tactic wasn't working with Reading when it should have. So he tried it with Udinese and it worked. So he's wondering why it didn't work with Reading despite them having a stronger squad. I think the reason why it didn't work with Reading is because in the Premier League, the opposition would be alot stronger. Also, some tactics don't work with some teams, no matter how hard you try to get them to work. Sometimes when you get promoted, tactics you may have used in the league below, will not or may not work in the higher league because of the teams you're facing.

Well, I dominated the World with Honvéd by the 2020s, so one of us has to be wrong.

ah i get it a bit more now, I would disagree with Biggus (just for a change eh!!! lol) tactics and squad depth are very important, but you dont have to be making huge tactical changes each match to be having a positive effect, i personally concentrate more on touchline shouts and slight adjustments of player instructions and roles for different games, ill set my defensive mid to an anchor man for big games but a supporting defensive mid for games i expect to win, ill choose more attacking players for the easier games and my workhorse battlers for the bigger away games. The thing is tho, everything you do is part of the bigger picture, team talks, press conferences, signings, training, coaches, match prep, tactics, player roles, opp instructions, some of the pieces are slightly bigger than others but everything is important, dont ever discount any part of the game as they can all help you achieve your goal.

Ok Prem League maybe harder then Seria A, I accept it. But I am not arguing that I should won all my games with Reading squad. I am also not saying that I should have won against higher rep teams such as Man Utd. Man City, Liverpool. I should build Readings reputiton and the only way is to win against smaller teams first. However I lost FA Cup and a League Cup against West Brom 2 years in a row. ANd West Brom was a relegation candidates in both those 2years. You may say that this happens IRL, some teams could be harder to win against certain teams. That could be true, but I was having very inconsistant results. If it is the confidence a Chealsea win should boost the confidence but after a Chelasea win I had 12 games without a win. And Stoke, Middlesbrough and Wolves were in those 12 teams. I even lost the Bolton game 1-0 whereas I won the first half game 5-2. If I could get the results against smaller reputition games; I wouldn't have any problems.

So sometimes whatever you do; doesn't change the result for certain teams I suppose. Actually I wasn't trying to make any points with this thread, but to find out what I did wrong with Reading....

I think what you did wrong was expect to beat those teams without any bother. What i dont think you have taken into context with your tactics is how other teams play against you after a bit of success and improving your teams rep. Clubs, especially struggling clubs will sit in against you more and if your not breaking them down your likely to get caught out, 1-0, 2-1 and such like.

How often were Reading playing compared to Udinese, and what are their respective facilities like? Conditioning makes a big difference, tired players don't seem to win very often no matter what their stats say. If you have your contracts out of whack individuals will perform well below standard also. The make up of your squad in terms of domestic player vs foreign and young v old could also have some part to play although I can't say I know how that works. Are any of those factors evident between Reading and Udinese?

I think what you did wrong was expect to beat those teams without any bother. What i dont think you have taken into context with your tactics is how other teams play against you after a bit of success and improving your teams rep. Clubs, especially struggling clubs will sit in against you more and if your not breaking them down your likely to get caught out, 1-0, 2-1 and such like.

I didn't expect to beat them easily. I wrote before that I barely avoid the relegation at my first season im Prem. League. This was understandable eventhough I expect to finish at 13th position or so. I changed my tactics. In npower division I played 4-2-3-1 with wide wingers, push-up, quick passing. After my discussion in the other topics I changed my tactics to 4-1-2-2-1. As seen in the link. Instead of pushing I start more defensive, shorter passing, slower tempo. In all instances I was having my chances in the matches. Even sometimes I was scoring and having 2 goal difference lead. But then BAM my keeper or my defense were making stupid mstakes. For this reason I replaced Enyeama with Amelia, but nothing changed. My reading experience is like whatever I do I was powerless to avoid conceding. Even ultra defensive setting after having the lead wouldn't change the result. I had a success with QPR in FM2010. I was able to get scores I wanted. And I am no stranger to this game; I was playing this game since 93. I guess I am getting old :-(

How often were Reading playing compared to Udinese, and what are their respective facilities like? Conditioning makes a big difference, tired players don't seem to win very often no matter what their stats say. If you have your contracts out of whack individuals will perform well below standard also. The make up of your squad in terms of domestic player vs foreign and young v old could also have some part to play although I can't say I know how that works. Are any of those factors evident between Reading and Udinese?

Howoften what? Reading have avarage coorporate facilities,toptraining facilities and Avarage youth facilities+youth academy. Udinese have good coorporate fcilities,Top training facilities, exclent youth facilities+youth academs. I wasn't using any players from youth team in Reading so y.facilities shouldn't have much effects IMO. But I don't know whether coorporate facilities have this much of an impact. COntracts were fine, but I must admitt that Reading team were older then Udinese, but had more domestic players in starting 11.

My opinion is that it is much harder in fm11 to improve the reputition then in any other FM or CM game...

I took stockport county from league 2 to the premier league title within 10th years.

Using only 1 tactic & never changing to defend lead etc.

Typically 6 or 7 of my team couldn't speak English.

I never took a press conference.

I never used any opposition instructions.

All did was at the end of everyseason get rid of every player rated less than 3 stars & replace them with the best I could get minimum 3.5 stars.

I never signed anyone with less than 10 determination or passing.

I made sure I made a profit every year and that's it.

I wouldnt overthink it, build a tactic you like and concentrate on improving your squad every year.

I took stockport county from league 2 to the premier league title within 10th years.

Using only 1 tactic & never changing to defend lead etc.

Typically 6 or 7 of my team couldn't speak English.

I never took a press conference.

I never used any opposition instructions.

All did was at the end of everyseason get rid of every player rated less than 3 stars & replace them with the best I could get minimum 3.5 stars.

I never signed anyone with less than 10 determination or passing.

I made sure I made a profit every year and that's it.

I wouldnt overthink it, build a tactic you like and concentrate on improving your squad every year.

Thanks for the reply. For tactical-wise I was using 1 tactic and tweaking it slightly before my Reading exprience. I played FM2011 couple times with Besiktas and didn't have a problem. However Besiktas is one of the 3 best teams in Turkey, so it was easier with higher reputition teams. I wanted to have a challange, but Reading was harder than I can handle :-( I think I am getting older.

Maybe I had more non-English players than I suppose to have. The only down-side I can think of with my Reading exprience. I only had 8 Home-grown players and only 2 or 3 of them were for first 11.

Other than that I asked my assistant to take care of the press since I had enough of that part of the game. I always built up my team. After I leave Reading sold Sergio Araujo for 23 mil. to Shaktar who I bought in my last year, and sold Dos Santos for 11.25 mil. So I think I was getting good players. I didn't paid great attention for passing and determination for all the areas, but I suppose except the defense players passing was high.

And finance is the one area I really try to have a good control. And I think I am good at it.

But I am happy with Udinese now. I just hope that the game still allows you to get a team and let you build it up. But after Reading your Stockport career and Reading others having success with different teams, I think it must be me or Reading...

Thanks for the reply. For tactical-wise I was using 1 tactic and tweaking it slightly before my Reading exprience. I played FM2011 couple times with Besiktas and didn't have a problem. However Besiktas is one of the 3 best teams in Turkey, so it was easier with higher reputition teams. I wanted to have a challange, but Reading was harder than I can handle :-( I think I am getting older.

Maybe I had more non-English players than I suppose to have. The only down-side I can think of with my Reading exprience. I only had 8 Home-grown players and only 2 or 3 of them were for first 11.

Other than that I asked my assistant to take care of the press since I had enough of that part of the game. I always built up my team. After I leave Reading sold Sergio Araujo for 23 mil. to Shaktar who I bought in my last year, and sold Dos Santos for 11.25 mil. So I think I was getting good players. I didn't paid great attention for passing and determination for all the areas, but I suppose except the defense players passing was high.

And finance is the one area I really try to have a good control. And I think I am good at it.

But I am happy with Udinese now. I just hope that the game still allows you to get a team and let you build it up. But after Reading your Stockport career and Reading others having success with different teams, I think it must be me or Reading...

It must be your tactic. It must have room for improvement.

I did my Stockport campaign playing long ball and restarted it playing a short passing game with similar success.

This means there is not one uber tactic but there are several ways to get the job done. But it can be frustrating playing season after season with a less than optimal tactic handicapping you.

My advise for tactic creation is to keep it simple and logical, it doesnt need to over elaborate, the pre-defined player roles are pretty good.

I would perhaps design 4 or 5 tactics with different formations. Start a new game, run 10 or 15 games into the season with each one recording results, not just the score but chances, clear cut etc, possession, opposition chances after which you should pick the best and tweak from there.

If your really frustated PM me and i'll drop you my stockport tactic so you can see whats going on.

Good luck.

In FM11 I think 4-1-2-2-1 is one of the weaker formations. You need three -very- good players up front to create anything, as you can't rely on the two midfielders to score too many goals in the box. The wingers must cut inside - otherwise the striker will have too much space to run into and will find himself out of scoring positions too often. You could of course set out to play very attacking football, but that will come with a high risk, and it is better to have two or three strikers if that is what you want.

Granted, I see that many have success with this formation, but if so those managers are doing something else that makes all the difference because I am convinced the formation in itself don't.

In short, 4-1-2-2-1 lacks both a punch up front and safety in the back and even though it should be possible to find the perfect balance you would need the right players in the right positions to do so... and then it is the players which makes the difference not the tactic.

You would be better off just tweaking a bog standard 442 tactic as it will be better for most clubs/squads both in offense and defense (eight players defending, six-eight players attacking vs 5 players attacking and seven players defending).

41221 is the formation I used for 60 seasons at Newcastle, winning at least several competitions a season.

The only difference between my formation and the default one was that I made the striker a poacher and one of the defenders a ball-player.

41221 is the formation I used for 60 seasons at Newcastle, winning at least several competitions a season.

The only difference between my formation and the default one was that I made the striker a poacher and one of the defenders a ball-player.

41221 i cant find the this tactic in the default ones its the 451?

41221 is the formation I used for 60 seasons at Newcastle, winning at least several competitions a season.

The only difference between my formation and the default one was that I made the striker a poacher and one of the defenders a ball-player.

60 seasons at Newcastle? my brother would love to pick your brains

I've just not been able to get a tactic with 2 up front to work, although I've always liked the idea of a small un and big un up front

EDIT: How i manged to read that you played with 2 up front when it clearly says one i'll never know, when i re-read this it was total facepalm moment

41221 i cant find the this tactic in the default ones its the 451?

Its whichever one has DR DL DC DC DM MC MC AMR AML ST

Its whichever one has DR DL DC DC DM MC MC AMR AML ST

Thank you, its the 451 in the default ones

It must be your tactic. It must have room for improvement.

I did my Stockport campaign playing long ball and restarted it playing a short passing game with similar success.

This means there is not one uber tactic but there are several ways to get the job done. But it can be frustrating playing season after season with a less than optimal tactic handicapping you.

My advise for tactic creation is to keep it simple and logical, it doesnt need to over elaborate, the pre-defined player roles are pretty good.

I would perhaps design 4 or 5 tactics with different formations. Start a new game, run 10 or 15 games into the season with each one recording results, not just the score but chances, clear cut etc, possession, opposition chances after which you should pick the best and tweak from there.

If your really frustated PM me and i'll drop you my stockport tactic so you can see whats going on.

Good luck.

My point to this thread is; if there are any point in this thread; it is not ALWAYS enough to have good tactics ans strong squad. I even use Goalstorm tactic with Reading and this was the first time I used someone else's tactic in this game.

I am having hard time to understand that the same tactic works with weaker squad in Udinese but it doesn't work with stronger squads in Reading. The only logical explanation is that Premier League is harder than Seria A.

I am not the moaning type so I don't want to prolong this discussion. However if I could have had consistent results with Reading by beating weaker teams such as West Brom, Blackburn or Stoke; I wouldn't have any problems. I wasn't expecting to beat stronger sides such as Man Utd. Chealsea or Liverpool. I guess I should say that some managers don't have good destiny with some teams.

Just play a season with a tier 9 or 10 team in england and you'll understand that Mood is very important to win games. Every player in that league has about 4-10 CA so there is no real difference between squads, and tactics don't matter too much either. A good Assman with motivation and man management skills is crucial for me.