Newgens re: creativity

Regarding newgen ca distribution.

In Fm11 I've found it increasingly annoying that newgens lack creativity for attacking midfielders and strikers (my current save in year 2056 there are 20 players with creativity over 15 whereas at the start of the game there is well over 100) which I find very strange, as I found there to be just the right amount of creativity in the first patch and too little flair now it seems to have reversed.

Also Striker newgens appear to only have two different varietys; the classic Poacher type forward or target men rarely do I see trequartista or any other variation.

Was wondering if anybody else noticed this, also if anyone knows if its been worked on.

I know its a reasonably small problem but it irks me no end.

edit: on a small database

It is a result of newgens being completely randomized. There aren't any player type presets in the generation process. If SI actually programmed newgens to be variations within certain player types where all attributes were considered, I believe long-term games would be much better and more realistic.

Regarding newgen ca distribution.

my current save in year 2056 there are 20 players with

creativity over 15 whereas at the start of the game there is well over 100

Having just perfomed the same search in my year 2045 - I've found 523 matches for all positions, with 195 for just AM or Striker.

Plus, one of my main strikers has perfect stats for a Trequartista! I play him there with huge success.

Each game is different...

Having just perfomed the same search in my year 2045 - I've found 523 matches for all positions, with 195 for just AM or Striker.

Plus, one of my main strikers has perfect stats for a Trequartista! I play him there with huge success.

Each game is different...

very true, I assume you play with a very large database?

also did you include players with 15 creativity?

I only play a small database (less than 25000) so maybe that is one of the reasons.

Just loaded another long term game of mine 18 players with greater than 15 creativity in year 2031

i must say i have not noticed this at all in my game, infact most of my team has very high creativity, including my ball playing Brazilian center half

Database size = custom. 67,323 players are found when I select no parameters.

Having now done the search again with:

- Creativity at least 16;

- Attacking midfielders or strikers.

I come up with 104.

Database size = custom. 67,323 players are found when I select no parameters.

Having now done the search again with:

- Creativity at least 16;

- Attacking midfielders or strikers.

I come up with 104.

Hmmmm thinking perhaps maybe I should play with a larger database....

very true, I assume you play with a very large database?

also did you include players with 15 creativity?

I only play a small database (less than 25000) so maybe that is one of the reasons.

Just loaded another long term game of mine 18 players with greater than 15 creativity in year 2031

I wouldn't advice playing with a database of less than 50 000 players, especially long term games. I created a game with small database and very few leagues once, and after two seasons I gave up because there simply weren't enough players to build a decent team starting in the lower leagues.

I find there are few problems when having a database of roughly 70 000 players. I recommend achieving that number by adding top leagues in as many nations as possible, though, because getting Eden Hazard, Phil Jones to Sunderland season 1 and Alexis Sanchez season 2 is a bit silly (only English leagues but loading extra players). The more leagues, the better.

Reading the blogs for fm12 it seems that this is being addressed somewhat with newgens from certain countries being naturally better at certain things ie Brazilian flair

It is a result of newgens being completely randomized. There aren't any player type presets in the generation process. If SI actually programmed newgens to be variations within certain player types where all attributes were considered, I believe long-term games would be much better and more realistic.

FM11 introduced templates for player types. They are not completely random. The templates may be imperfect but they are there.

It is a result of newgens being completely randomized. There aren't any player type presets in the generation process. If SI actually programmed newgens to be variations within certain player types where all attributes were considered, I believe long-term games would be much better and more realistic.

I hope we can change this in FM editor 2012.

Dont worry he is wrong, there are regen templates already in the game, for both different positions, styles of players and based on the area they are born, and by the sounds of things there are more in FM12. I dont think you can edit these.

Dont worry he is wrong, there are regen templates already in the game, for both different positions, styles of players and based on the area they are born, and by the sounds of things there are more in FM12. I dont think you can edit these.

Dont worry he is wrong, there are regen templates already in the game, for both different positions, styles of players and based on the area they are born, and by the sounds of things there are more in FM12. I dont think you can edit these.

Well these templates certainly don't include Flair, Creativity, Aggression, Bravery, set pieces and many other attributes for numerous types of players that should or should not allocate CA in them.

For instance, why would this guy -ever- practice taking corners in his youth?

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And how (and why) would this guy -ever- practice at heading the ball with precision?

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Why not remove unweighted, random CA allocation altogether? What is there to lose when templates are already in place?

I never said they were perfect but they are def there! The first guy i actually good at set pieces so i dont see the issue with him being able to take a corner, and i dont understand why a winger couldnt head the ball well? If anything in FM terms its a huge bonus he will score quite a few goals that way.

You right the templates don't include all attributes and some called tendencies e.g bravery don't use CA points.

Yes there are certainly still problems with newgens but being restrictive with all attributes runs the risk of newgens being too similar. I think the answer lies in a lot more Templates plus less random attribute allocation.

I never said they were perfect but they are def there! The first guy i actually good at set pieces so i dont see the issue with him being able to take a corner, and i dont understand why a winger couldnt head the ball well? If anything in FM terms its a huge bonus he will score quite a few goals that way.

A six foot six centre back is never going to be asked to take corners so why would he practice.

and a tiny winger is never going to win enough balls in the air to get that good at heading or is at least it's very unlikely. Big discrepancies between Jumping and heading are unlikely simply because to being good at Jumping means you constantly practice heading and inversely being bad at jumping means you don't get to practice heading much.

What Riz said, the first guy to me looks like more of a central mid player than a centre half, but he seems like a technically gifted player, his freekicks, long shots and first touch are all very good so i dont see the issue at all. The second guy your confusing heading with jumping, plenty of small players can head the ball well, heading is not just for 6ft central defenders or target men, like riz says i have done plenty of heading training when i was younger that did not involve any jumping at all.

From my junior footballing years, I seem to recall most of the heading training involving heading the ball across a short distance to a team mate, without any actual jumping being involved. As much as you need to be able to jump to win headers when someone else is coming in for the same ball, you need to be able to control the ball with your head as well to direct it where you want. So I don't buy the argument that you are unlikely to be able to control the ball with your head unless you are good at jumping

It's also not like there aren't times when a diminutive player ends up with a chance to head the ball. John Spencer scoring a great headed goal from a set piece (a fair few years back, and I can't remember who it was for or against) comes to mind. Getting into a soft spot in the coverage could be as important to the attribute as jumping. It actually happens quite a bit in my FM games where I have my small right winger finishing off a counterattack at the back post with nobody around him because of his pace. A lot of those goals are drilled crosses at what appears to be head height.

(EHM EHM EHM EHM)

The guys got 17 for Corners that puts him in a fairly elite company you don't get that good at something with out practice.

He also has 9 for crossing which looks odd as they are fairly similar skills and there tends to be a correlated.

If you don't believe there is a correlation between Jumping and heading I suggest you check your own Database. Look at the researched players and you will see the better a player is at jumping the better his heading is likely to be. The exceptions will mostly be strikers who will work extensively on finishing with their feet and heads what ever their height.

He seems quite technical so maybe he was naturally gifted technically and had a good kicking technique already. Having a high corner attribute doesn't mean that he has necessarily spent all his youth just practising corners so I don't see the real point in complaining here. Being able to jump also doesn't rule out being able to be technical unless you don't want to look at the players as complete footballers but just want to maximize the key attributes by any means necessary.

From my junior footballing years, I seem to recall most of the heading training involving heading the ball across a short distance to a team mate, without any actual jumping being involved. As much as you need to be able to jump to win headers when someone else is coming in for the same ball, you need to be able to control the ball with your head as well to direct it where you want. So I don't buy the argument that you are unlikely to be able to control the ball with your head unless you are good at jumping

I am sorry but a continental/world class defender having 17 in Corners means he is one of the best corner takers in the league, if not the whole of Europe. You don't get that good without hours of practice every day for years. Since he is nearly two meters tall and made of granite he would never be found outside the box on in-direct set pieces, but this also means that his 18 in Free Kicks (aka one of the leading free-kick takers in Europe) is not as unnatural - I can imagine him blasting the ball into the net from a distance...yes I can. Boom!

I agree that Heading and Jumping are two different things, and Ulises has good technique overall, so also being naturally good controlling the ball with his head is not strange in itself. The problem is the 2 in Jumping, showing that he has no ability to leap! The issue is here that height dictates Jumping in FM, so anyone that small will be lacking the ability to leap into the air quite literally. I think this is wrong. Just look at the bounciness of Aguero and Puyol! They are both quite small, but they are able to leap well off the ground anyways. Finding Puyol soaring half a meter above your 185cm scalp isn't unheard of... The result of these templates is that while Ulises will be able to head the ball if he ever connected his brow to the ball, in game terms he will never do so because the ball doesn't drop that low without being considered on the ground and then he would rather try to control the ball and shoot...

Hey i play with a guy on a saturday who's a striker and he can take very good corners but my god he cant cross lol. Awful. Different between dead-ball situations and when the balls moving.