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View Full Version : Why do AI teams almost always score from their first shot in the match?



Zoolok
04-03-2008, 17:07
Have you noticed this? I am acutally surprised if they don't score from their first shot of the match against me.

Also, even though I go very defensive in the last 10 minutes if I'm defending a one-goal lead, my team usually concedes a goal in the 90+ minute of the match. At the end of the match, it's almost always 4 minutes of added time, and usually a goal for the opposition in the 93rd-96th minute of the match.

Anyone else notice this? These are very common situatuins in my game.

Zoolok
04-03-2008, 17:07
Have you noticed this? I am acutally surprised if they don't score from their first shot of the match against me.

Also, even though I go very defensive in the last 10 minutes if I'm defending a one-goal lead, my team usually concedes a goal in the 90+ minute of the match. At the end of the match, it's almost always 4 minutes of added time, and usually a goal for the opposition in the 93rd-96th minute of the match.

Anyone else notice this? These are very common situatuins in my game.

bermybhoy
04-03-2008, 17:13
You're paranoid man. Tweak your tactics

Zoolok
04-03-2008, 17:15
I'm not paranoid and, for the love of God, it's not my tactics.

Could you just pay attention in your game and see if it happens to you, too?

Because it happens A LOT to me.

bermybhoy
04-03-2008, 17:22
Fair enough, but no, never noticed it. What level are you playing at? The game ISN'T out to get you, honest. Does feel like it sometimes. If your 'closing game out' tactics don't work, you do need to change them....sad fact

azri1986
04-03-2008, 17:28
Yeah it does happen a lot.You just have to live with it. It's quite stupid thinking that when they have 4-2-4 formation they are gonna attack all the time as if our own players dun have the ball at all. I had this 1 time was so stupid that daniel alvez made an error throwing the ball straight to their striker and they scored. Well, just live with it.

Soccer Manager
04-03-2008, 17:32
Yup - I saw both these things all the time. I could be completely wrong, but I think they programmed the computer so you don't win certain games based on the level of difficulty of the team you manage. The other team ends up scoring goals to beat or tie you in the last second, and I don't think there's anything you can do to stop it.
Example - I had a promotion playoff against Southampton (I was Stoke City) in the Championship Division, and to test the game, I played the match 3 different times by not saving the game. All three times the second game had to be decided by overtime (all won by Southampton), and twice Southampton scored with no time on the clock to win the game. I think there was no way the computer would let me beat Southampton in the playoffs.
I think the level of difficulty for certain teams is higher. I was the greatest manager for QPR and the worst for Sheffield Wednesday using the same tactics.
On another topic, why is Southampton so good in this game? They aren't so good in real life.

deadeyedunc
04-03-2008, 17:42
It happens a lot in my game. Or even more annoying they do it straight after half time when you've worked hard for that 1 goal lead http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

How the opposition scoring with their first attack can have anything to do with tactics I'll never know. So how do you stop it happening?

tomtuck01
04-03-2008, 17:53
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bermybhoy:
You're paranoid man. Tweak your tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with this to be honest.

OfficerTimFisher
04-03-2008, 19:56
I'm new to FM08, so I don't really have any pre-conceptions or biases about this game..

Though I'm only through about 10 games, I haven't had this happen to me. So yeah, paranoia ... hehe

bermybhoy
04-03-2008, 20:00
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OfficerTimFisher:
I'm new to FM08, so I don't really have any pre-conceptions or biases about this game..

Though I'm only through about 10 games, I haven't had this happen to me. So yeah, paranoia ... hehe </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yank noobies taking the p*ss means you mut be wrong http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

phnompenhandy
04-03-2008, 22:14
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:
Could you just pay attention in your game and see if it happens to you, too?

Because it happens A LOT to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I pay considerable attention in my games and you know what? It very rarely happens.

*cough*tactics http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

skintsaint
04-03-2008, 22:29
Unless the opposition didnt have any shots in the last 7 games against me due to having clean sheets in all of them, then your theory is based on paranoia! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LSS
04-03-2008, 23:24
Do you have a goalkeeper with low concentration?

Kill Rock Stars
04-03-2008, 23:35
in one particular season my side played 45 matches, and i estimated that i conceded from the opposition's first shot on goal in roughly half of those games. in one run of matches they scored from their first shot on target eight games running

it was noticable because my team was performing well, and even in those eight matches i won or drew nearly all of them. quite often i'd go right back up the other end and score with what was often my first or second shot on target, leaving the score 1-1 after only 10/15 minutes

after the first goal, or first shot (often the same thing) my team would almost always tighted up considerably, regardless of whether i adjusted my tactics or not

obviously the ai isn't out to get me, but it really did feel like something in the match engine was processing something wrong somewhere. i imagine if i used ai tactics, or if the ai used mine, then it would be repeated in reverse, although as far as i can tell there's absolutely nothing in my tactics or my players' attributes that should lead to them conceding like this all the time (bearing in mind that we were dominating the division apart from this one thing)

azri1986
04-03-2008, 23:37
Yeah actually it's all about tactics. It's just that when I'm leading 1-0 or 2-1 I try to run down the time by employing time wasting. But thing is the AI manager has found a formula to counter and thrash your current tactics. But heck, I dun want them to score the last 5 mins or whatever. I prefer it to be 70+ or early 80ish. But I do disagree with the possession the AI team has during the last few mins. Even if I play using MU against weaker teams, my players look like kids playing with adults. But this only happen sometimes. This might be radical, but do you guys believe that the outcome of who wins or lose is determined pregame?

backpackant
05-03-2008, 00:09
I get a lot of clean sheets and, strangely, my GK has more MOTM awards than any other player for my Villa save.

So no, it really is your tactics, mate. Play around with your closing down as well as formations etc.

andyinuk
05-03-2008, 00:38
no they do not always score from their first shot in the match

FrazT
05-03-2008, 00:54
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by andyinuk:
no they do not always score from their first shot in the match </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed- I am much more likely to lose a goal late in a game that I am controlling and forget to shut the game down.

playmaker
05-03-2008, 01:18
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:
Do you have a goalkeeper with low concentration? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with LSS, it is most likely something to do with your goalkeeper and concentration is a good starting point.

Mitja
05-03-2008, 01:52
it doesn't happen to me also.

- are you using 802? did you continue from 801?

- it might be your GK like people said.

- what about your DC settings. short passing? too high closing down? tight marking?

- D line? too atacking mentality and too many forward runs?

with so many of us claiming it doesn't happen, it must be your tactics http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or bad luck becouse you're too dominant and the game doesn't stand that.

homerjnick
05-03-2008, 02:25
Not from their first shot but:

CORNER = GOAL 80% of the time.

Boo!

philly_flyer10
05-03-2008, 03:42
Ive given up trying to defend leads, they score every time I do it so I just carry on attacking, that way I at least have a chance of scoring myself.

Attacking as way, way too easy in FM. In reality its a lot easier to hold someone and hit them on the counter than it is to score with all out attack.

If it was that easy to score with an all out attack, wed see every real team play a 4-2-4 from start to finish.

eaglealan64
05-03-2008, 03:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:
I get a lot of clean sheets and, strangely, my GK has more MOTM awards than any other player for my Villa save.

So no, it really is your tactics, mate. Play around with your closing down as well as formations etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he said ....

Negatrev
05-03-2008, 04:02
A few way people will lose possesion late on in games (makes it seem like you never have the ball) is because they don't slow down the tempo enough. The other factors against situations like this (especially against a 4-2-4) is making sure you change you set piece instructions so on attacking corners/free-kicks/throw-ins you have enough players set to back or back if needed. Also it's a good idea to have more than one player coming short for the ball.

The only other issue some people find is they don't have an outlet after defending too deep. However defensive you go you should have either a quick player, or a strong target-man (preferably with someone joing him soon after) high up the pitch. This forces your opponents to keep defenders back and also stops every clearance coming straight back at you.

Zoolok
05-03-2008, 04:38
So, some people experience this, and some don't?

Anyway, I'm playing with Man Utd, with the new 8.0.2 patch. My GK is Diego Cavalieri, and to be honest, I'm not very happy with him. In the confidence screen, the fans say they like him, but most of the time either shots go straight through him, or he doesn't even try to make a save.

I finished my 2nd season yesterday, and again, in three out of four matches in a row the opposition scored with their first shot. First one I lost 2-0, then won 5-1, and then won 2-1.

I'll start a new season soon, and this time I'll keep detailed record of what happens. It will take me a couple of days, I only play FM about two-three hours per day.

The tactics I use worked great in the 1st season, when we went on a 31-match unbeaten run right from the start. We ended the season as champions with 15 more than Arsenal. But in all cup competitions, either domestic or in Europe, we lost heavily with the same tactic - 6-2 against Barcelona, 5-0 agains Everton in League Cup and 4-2 against Chelsea in FA Cup.

Zoolok
05-03-2008, 04:40
Ok, that's 15 points more than Arsenal.

SI, why can't we edit our own posts?

tigerhgrrrrrr
05-03-2008, 05:04
Agree. has happened since CM 01-02. No one can prove why or if it is true but the stats suggest it can not be coincidence.

postal postie
05-03-2008, 05:05
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:
I'm not paranoid and, for the love of God, it's not my tactics.

Could you just pay attention in your game and see if it happens to you, too?

Because it happens A LOT to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope. AI teams dont always score from their first shot in my games. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
it has to be your tactics

Zoolok
05-03-2008, 06:05
Not always, but almost always.

How can it be my tactics? If they score from their first attack in the match, what can I do to fix it? Note that I usually dominate my oponents.

Radon
05-03-2008, 07:35
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:
Not from their first shot but:

CORNER = GOAL 80% of the time.

Boo! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this based on game statistics, or on the corners shown in the highlights?

Wazzerphuk
05-03-2008, 07:39
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:
Not always, but almost always.

How can it be my tactics? If they score from their first attack in the match, what can I do to fix it? Note that I usually dominate my oponents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Start the game defensively. Set yourself to close them down everywhere, get in their faces and don't give them a chance. Use common sense - if you're conceeding goals at a certain time period, what would you do if you were managing a real club? Don't just expect people to not score against you early on in games - you need to make SURE it doesn't happen.

LSS
05-03-2008, 09:45
My brother had the same problem in our network game. Then he bought a goalie with better concentration and composure and now he doesn't have the problem anymore.

Btw. Do you have the 8.0.2 patch installed?

This field intentionally left blank
05-03-2008, 09:54
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">after the first goal, or first shot (often the same thing) my team would almost always tighted up considerably, regardless of whether i adjusted my tactics or not </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More likely the AI changed tactics against which your tactics were more suited.

Macyst
05-03-2008, 09:56
If you are caught napping often ,it's your GK and defenders that need to be looked at. Match complacent is also an issue if you have been winning or you're leading by a few goals. The latter case is normal especially near the end of the game.

Also, if you tend to lose in the big match like that, you better replace the keeper since he's not confident with the big matches. An older (more experienced) keeper is preferred in that case.

qwerty52
05-03-2008, 11:42
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:
Have you noticed this? I am acutally surprised if they don't score from their first shot of the match against me.

Also, even though I go very defensive in the last 10 minutes if I'm defending a one-goal lead, my team usually concedes a goal in the 90+ minute of the match. At the end of the match, it's almost always 4 minutes of added time, and usually a goal for the opposition in the 93rd-96th minute of the match.

Anyone else notice this? These are very common situatuins in my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that absolutely could never happen almost every game on their first shot. no way.

Starr_Man5
05-03-2008, 13:58
One thing I do notice is in my games where, say, I'm winning a match by 1 goal and even though I'm watching on either key or extended highlights (It don't matter which) I basically have to suffer EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of extra time as my players give me heart attack after heart attack as they play like a bunch of idiots.
Then (ironically) if I'm LOSING by a single goal there isn't a single highlight late in the game.
I'll even get a DFK ON THE EDGE OF THE BOX, yet the game will cut away to commentary only (much to my horror/disgust).
It frustrates the hell out of me, but what can we do?....

Mister Z
06-03-2008, 03:11
I’m not convinced that scoring in the first 5 minutes is all about tactics. If you take a close look at the goal scoring times of national or (euro) cup games when the game is processing, you would see a lot of goals in the first and final moments of a game. IMO this is event driven bases on the parameters of the engine.

Jopo12
06-03-2008, 10:22
It has to score with their first shot because it often is their only and how else would the game be challenging if you are dominating too much... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

alimdemir
06-03-2008, 11:14
this game sucks,totally cracking by AI

Zoolok
08-03-2008, 16:48
*bump*

Ok, I've started a new season, and played 10 matches so far, in all competitions. In five out of those ten matches, the opposition team had scored with their first shot on target.

If it keeps up like this - and I think it will - I will be very annoyed.

We won nine and drew the remaining one of those matches, so this isn't about winning or losing.

I'll take notes throughout the season and put them here when I finish it (if anyone's interested... if not, I won't http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

hightower1881
09-03-2008, 01:14
Yes... this happens all the time to me....:-(

andersonn
09-03-2008, 04:08
it happens in every game i have started.this is one
of the biggest bugs in the game and this make the game unplayable.shame on sigames.

skintsaint
09-03-2008, 23:17
Doh, I bet a majority class the first shot as the first highlight of the game.....

Nomis07
10-03-2008, 02:02
To all those people who say it has nothing to do with their tactics.

I conceded 13 in 34 league games last season, including not conceding a single goal in the first 10 games.

10 games into the second season and I have conceded 2.

disasterd
10-03-2008, 14:54
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:
Have you noticed this? I am acutally surprised if they don't score from their first shot of the match against me.

Also, even though I go very defensive in the last 10 minutes if I'm defending a one-goal lead, my team usually concedes a goal in the 90+ minute of the match. At the end of the match, it's almost always 4 minutes of added time, and usually a goal for the opposition in the 93rd-96th minute of the match.

Anyone else notice this? These are very common situatuins in my game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wish i knew why it happens,but i dont like to talk about it
it gets me so angry when it happens

frustrating