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Bertie BG
13-09-2011, 12:48
This is a thread for feedback on today's blog, which is now LIVE here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274496-FM12-blogs-Tactics-(Video)

S2008
13-09-2011, 12:55
Looks very snazzy and the custom shouts sounds like a much easier way to use Multiple Shouts at the same time. The tactic interface looks much cleaner as well- good job :applause:

runandjump
13-09-2011, 12:56
Custom shouts looks excellent!

Also, being able to set instructions for players and not having to worry about changing them as you change tactics looks decent too!

tigerhgrrrrrr
13-09-2011, 12:57
Interface actually looks polished this year.

phnompenhandy
13-09-2011, 12:58
Custom Shouts - yes, much needed.

The rest is just changes to the interface, making it easier to do what you could already do in FM11. I didn't see anything NEW tactics-wise.

MeesterCat
13-09-2011, 13:00
Custom shouts looks excellent!

Also, being able to set instructions for players and not having to worry about changing them as you change tactics looks decent too!
This sums it up for me really.

Did I read/view it correctly and see that you can save settings to individual players as well as formations? I.e. I have two AML, one left footed, one right footed - I can save the cut inside option for the right-footed one, and hug touchline for the left and the tactics update depending on who I pick?

But yes, the custom shouts looks like the simple addition that can really make a difference.

VonBlade
13-09-2011, 13:02
As long as there is some way to force a player to stop shooting from a billion yards out even though his tactics tell him to never ever ever do it, then I'm happy.

Matteo3champions
13-09-2011, 13:02
custom shouts are wonderful!

TheInvisibleMan
13-09-2011, 13:04
Brilliant once again, great new features I can't wait to use.

Not sure about the new font on the layout! Looks a lot different, a bit more like Championship Manager. Guess I'll get used to it eventually.

SazoJohnno
13-09-2011, 13:06
The interface looks fantastic, well done SI!

metal_guitarist
13-09-2011, 13:07
Looks brilliant, can't wait for this. A shame SFraser's not around to use that tactics screen, I think he might have exploded in joy :D

stu9000
13-09-2011, 13:09
disappointed that were still unable to cancel subsitutions, for example your 1-0 up and decide to bring to bring on a extra defender but then just before the sub comes on they make it 1-1 well now I dont want to make that change, happens all the time in real life manager about to make a sub a goal goes in he changes his mind

pigfacemonkeyman
13-09-2011, 13:12
Storing player settings, gotta be good.:)

EDIT: Not what I had hoped it would be. :(

athos
13-09-2011, 13:14
So does this mean that when I instruct players to switch position during a game, I don't have to change their individual instruction? For example, I have a target man on the left and poacher on the right, both with instruction to switch with each other. When they switch, will the left side player be the poacher and the right side player be the target man?

saware
13-09-2011, 13:18
This sums it up for me really.

Did I read/view it correctly and see that you can save settings to individual players as well as formations? I.e. I have two AML, one left footed, one right footed - I can save the cut inside option for the right-footed one, and hug touchline for the left and the tactics update depending on who I pick?

But yes, the custom shouts looks like the simple addition that can really make a difference.

Hopefully will be able to save the players' roles as well as their specific tactics.

Apart from it taking up valuable playing time at the moment, it's also quite frustrating if you make changes to your line-up and forget to change roles & tactics as well.

davidnio_422
13-09-2011, 13:28
custom shouts... awesome!

Lazaru5
13-09-2011, 13:31
While I love the look and the changes that have been made...

for me, the single most important thing that made me fist-pump with delight was...

the ability to ask your assistant/coach to only pick player's for free slots!!! About time... it's annoyed me that this option hasn't been available before, tbh..

I'm proper looking forward to 21st October :thup:

MeesterCat
13-09-2011, 13:32
Hopefully will be able to save the players' roles as well as their specific tactics.

Apart from it taking up valuable playing time at the moment, it's also quite frustrating if you make changes to your line-up and forget to change roles & tactics as well.
Ah yes, the amount of times I've realised that I've inadvertantly given hulking man-wall Alfred N'Diaye an attacking Trequartista role due to a formation shuffle. :-/

Scab
13-09-2011, 13:32
New interface looks promising, looking forward to trying it out in practice. I'm probably most pleased with custom shouts; I like the simple in-game dynamism shouts offer and that mechanic is now less limited. :thup:

pigfacemonkeyman
13-09-2011, 13:33
Aren't they just 'groups of existing shouts' rather than 'custom shouts?'

saware
13-09-2011, 13:37
Ah yes, the amount of times I've realised that I've inadvertantly given hulking man-wall Alfred N'Diaye an attacking Trequartista role due to a formation shuffle. :-/

I once managed Berbatov and stupidly sent him out with a role and tactics that required him to run... stupid me!

Scab
13-09-2011, 13:39
Aren't they just 'groups of existing shouts' rather than 'custom shouts?'
Hm, true, on second look there aren't a ton of options. Still very nice, but hopefully this will be fleshed out further in time.

DeadPanda
13-09-2011, 13:40
Aren't they just 'groups of existing shouts' rather than 'custom shouts?'

Yes, but it saves time clicking a whole bunch of them one after the other. Very useful IMO.

I like the new look and bit and bobs on the screen - feels more accessable and easy to use.

straccy vendoli
13-09-2011, 13:41
and so..still not tactics with and without ball possession..i think it's absurd,talking about realism,the fact you can't set your defensive tactic..

Barside
13-09-2011, 13:50
I would love to have an updated wibble/wobble, I get really frustrated when my attacking players do not chase back stop once they get inside our own half just or just stand by while they watch my central midfielders & defenders get overrun all because their primary role does not have a defensive instruction set.

I do like the look of the new interface but I would prefer it if SI used the dark skin in the videio clips because the white one hurts my eyes. :)

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 13:50
Looks awesome. Can't wait.

mightymanager
13-09-2011, 13:51
Custom Shouts :applause:
Do whatever you want in this game : I like this ! keep it up
Will the advanced instructions remain in fm12 ( the famous bar line to adjus ? )

Mons
13-09-2011, 13:52
Nothing too new tbh, most of the 'features' spoken about were already present in previous iterations and have just been given a lick of paint. Liking the look of the custom shouts but pretty disappointed that a proper set-piece creator hasn't been included yet.

mightymanager
13-09-2011, 13:56
will the match preparation have more options ( examples : physical work, one touch ball, triangle passes etc... ? )
I did not see in the video blog .

Suzie MUFC
13-09-2011, 13:57
Custom Shouts and stored player instructions - brill!

Barside
13-09-2011, 13:58
...pretty disappointed that a proper set-piece creator hasn't been included yet.
Still open to being exploited I guess, once AI managers are smart enough to remember your chosen plays & design defensive counters that render the routine ineffective then I'd be happy to see a set-piece creator.

Mazaveli
13-09-2011, 13:59
Just features from last year made more compact and with a lick of paint.

nik1313
13-09-2011, 14:08
Nice. With this 2nd blog we realise that these are improvements for advanced players. Just as for scouting oppoment teams, where i was thinking a lot while managing this season and now its possible to do, ..the custom shouts are an awesome improvement for someone like me who has mastered the shouts in FM2011. All new players start from buying the correct players,use the best tactics,develop young players, move to squad management, reqruitment and so on. In FM2012 it will be easer and faster to use all you have mastered as a virtual manager. /Well done for the changes to the interface

TCG
13-09-2011, 14:13
It looks very nice..
But i have some wondering about something you (Miles) wrote yesterday. You wrote that you will bring something at bold.dk, is that gonna hapend?

Alessandro133
13-09-2011, 14:18
Just interface improvements.
Nothing new except some shouts (run at defense etc). :thdn:

When at the end I can oder Pirlo to pass to foot for Del Piero and to head for Toni?
Or order my forward to dribble against defender X, but never try this against defender Y?
:confused:

2Pacalypse
13-09-2011, 14:32
It would be great if those injury warnings included some extra info from your staff, for example, if they think you should keep a certain player on the field or not. That's not exactly new is it? You could already see if someone had picked up an injury either from the 3d view or the players screen.

Barside
13-09-2011, 14:46
It would be great if those injury warnings included some extra info from your staff, for example, if they think you should keep a certain player on the field or not. That's not exactly new is it? You could already see if someone had picked up an injury either from the 3d view or the players screen.
I would like to see information on the injury to judge if keeping him on the field will risk causing further problems, it's little things like an outfield player suffering from a couple of broken fingers, yes it will hurt put with a piankilling injection he should be able to carry on without too much truoble.

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 14:48
Just interface improvements.
Nothing new except some shouts (run at defense etc). :thdn:

When at the end I can oder Pirlo to pass to foot for Del Piero and to head for Toni?
Or order my forward to dribble against defender X, but never try this against defender Y?
:confused:

Those things for passing to feet or head - that's in their decision making. I would never tell a winger to cross to the head of Carroll, I'd expect them to make that decision depending on who's free.

You obviously didn't watch the video.

there are other things - like giving a player a Tactical role, something you couldn't do before. So now if you bring on an Attacking midfielder to replace the defensive midfielder he'll automatically be set to attack rather than defend.

If you don't understand that as a major change then you missed the whole point of the video.


And what's wrong with interface changes? They actually make the game more efficient for playing and utilising all your tactical options from a single screen. It maybe a cosmetic change but it makes it a lot more efficient


Your thumbsdown icon is rejected.

amer
13-09-2011, 14:49
Is that a new camera angle right end of the video

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 14:57
There are new camera angles

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/271369-Football-Manager-2012-Announced!


3D Match Improvements – new animations, a whole new crowd system, improved weather system, more stadiums, plus two brand new cameras - "Behind Goal" and "Director Cam" as well as all other camera angles being reversible - meaning you can watch and analyse every aspect of every game.

Alessandro133
13-09-2011, 15:01
I would like to see information on the injury to judge if keeping him on the field will risk causing further problems, it's little things like an outfield player suffering from a couple of broken fingers, yes it will hurt put with a piankilling injection he should be able to carry on without too much truoble.
In FM11 this information was available in player profile (you can see what is injured) and in motivation widget (you can see how player feels himself).

Alessandro133
13-09-2011, 15:15
Those things for passing to feet or head - that's in their decision making. I would never tell a winger to cross to the head of Carroll, I'd expect them to make that decision depending on who's free.
You can say this "that's in their decision making" about anything. And limit tactics to select starting eleven. ;-)))

You obviously didn't watch the video.
I've watched.

there are other things - like giving a player a Tactical role, something you couldn't do before. So now if you bring on an Attacking midfielder to replace the defensive midfielder he'll automatically be set to attack rather than defend.
If you don't understand that as a major change then you missed the whole point of the video.

When I make quick substitution I can choose role for coming player. Can't see what's cool in this.
Btw, I don't agree with your explanation of this feature. I understand this as I can store player instructions for 3 tactics for first 11. Nothing about subs or players outside of the squad. Just store what I have three 4-4-2's - one with attacking wingers, one with support, one with defensive, for example. Just roles and instruction for every position in each of 3 tactic.


And what's wrong with interface changes? They actually make the game more efficient for playing and utilising all your tactical options from a single screen. It maybe a cosmetic change but it makes it a lot more efficient
It's ok but not the main thing I wait from new game ;-)

Your thumbsdown icon is rejected.
:o

dfgrigg
13-09-2011, 15:15
In FM11 this information was available in player profile (you can see what is injured) and in motivation widget (you can see how player feels himself).

Your assistant also gives some feedback in his advice widget. Most of the time he says the player is OK to continue, but sometimes I've seen him suggest that he should be substituted immediately.

Alessandro133
13-09-2011, 15:20
Your assistant also gives some feedback in his advice widget. Most of the time he says the player is OK to continue, but sometimes I've seen him suggest that he should be substituted immediately.
What widget are you talking about? From fm12 from last video?

Romanista.
13-09-2011, 15:23
where is the blog on tactics?? this should be called the new interface blog.there is nothing about tactics in that video.

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 15:27
Allesandro - you don't understand the additional features in the tactics.

Alessandro133
13-09-2011, 15:32
Allesandro - you don't understand the additional features in the tactics.
Maybe my english is not so good. Explain me, please. :thup:

GaIatasaray_35
13-09-2011, 15:42
Amazing.

Hell of a good job.

username1
13-09-2011, 15:44
With the custom shouts, am i right that you type in your own shouts? Can you only type certain set words; how many words can the game understand, has it swallowed a dictionary? Or have i misunderstood?

Coentrao
13-09-2011, 15:56
With the custom shouts, am i right that you type in your own shouts? Can you only type certain set words; how many words can the game understand, has it swallowed a dictionary? Or have i misunderstood?

The custom shouts are just created from the existing shouts, you could like:

-Play Narrower
-Drop Deeper
-Pass into Space

Make all these shouts into one custom shout only.

Äktsjon Männ
13-09-2011, 16:00
Allesandro - you don't understand the additional features in the tactics.

There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements.

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 16:09
The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?

milnerpoint
13-09-2011, 16:12
There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements.

What would you liked to have seen improved? I would imagine a lot has changed "under the hood", not just a polish of the interface.

Äktsjon Männ
13-09-2011, 16:18
The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?

Exactly. It took a few more mouse clicks but you could still set Gerrard to play AM. All that's changed in FM12 apparently is the interface.

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 16:24
No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added.

You said

There aren't any. You could do every single thing in that video in FM11 - it only took a few additional mouse clicks. Not that I don't approve the changes or anything, the interface looks much more professional and well layed out. But the tactics system seems to have remained exactly the same under the hood, which is a shame since it is such an important part of the game and it certainly could do with a few improvements.

And they didn't really get into what's under the hood in the 4 minute preview video. They did show some nice new touches they added. But they didn't exactly go into detail.

Until they do, you cannot say they didn't change anything under the hood.

Äktsjon Männ
13-09-2011, 16:25
What would you liked to have seen improved? I would imagine a lot has changed "under the hood", not just a polish of the interface.

I'd like to see many more roles as well as more customisation options within those roles. More refined control over width so that you could for example be compact in defense but still hit the teams down the flanks in attack. Better control over set pieces etc etc. Maybe these improvements are there in FM12 but it seems strange not to indroduce them in a blog dedicated to tactical improvements if so. Have to wait and see I guess.

Äktsjon Männ
13-09-2011, 16:31
No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added.

It's still only a change in how you interact with the tactics system. I.e an interface change. It won't make any difference if you assign a predetermined role to a player or change it manually through the tactics screen. They'll still perform exactly the same.

pauly1616
13-09-2011, 16:34
"Create your own shouts" I was very excited about, then I realised it was simply a quick way to combine the shouts already present.

It is a great idea, but we should be able to create OUR OWN shouts from the beginning, not just use the preset ones.

All in all, the amount of clicking looks far reduced and that is great too.

Cheers

Eugene Tyson
13-09-2011, 16:37
I give up.

ZdlR
13-09-2011, 17:05
Will classic tactics still exist?

pigfacemonkeyman
13-09-2011, 17:11
The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?


No it's not all that changed. You could NEVER assign a ROLE to a player before. EVER. It was a sought after feature for the last 2 years. It is now added.

You said


And they didn't really get into what's under the hood in the 4 minute preview video. They did show some nice new touches they added. But they didn't exactly go into detail.

Until they do, you cannot say they didn't change anything under the hood.


I give up.

He says you can save player settings, not roles. (still very handy)
The option to 'customise shouts' only allows you to 'customise groups of already existing shouts' and name those groups as you like.

Siven
13-09-2011, 17:13
Love the new interface changes, looks nice and it seems like they will be a lot less clicking and be much more efficient :)

I like the ability to create custom shouts too, and if i understood it right, the ability to set each player with a preffered role and settings.

olley669
13-09-2011, 17:41
nice to see hes using west ham lol
looks very nice cant wait
whens the demo :P

SCIAG
13-09-2011, 17:44
A few neat time-saving features here, nothing revolutionary, but the groups of shouts will save a lot of time and stop me making mistakes.

mdbussen
13-09-2011, 17:52
"Create your own shouts" I was very excited about, then I realised it was simply a quick way to combine the shouts already present.

Exactly how I feel about it. I like the interface changes that have been made but in order to take the Tactics Creator (which was a ground-breaking addition btw) to the next logical level we need to have the abilities to create TRUE custom roles and shouts.

brightonrock
13-09-2011, 18:10
I like it! New interface looks clean and user friendly, much improved. The things touched on in the video blog aren't ground-breaking but they seem useful and a good addition.

I do wonder why the player's injury still isn't specified when he picks it up in game. If a goalkeeper has a bruised head, he can play on. If a striker has a sprained wrist, he can play on. But if someone's pulled their hammy I want to know it's a leg injury and bring him off. In FM11 it only says he has a green-cross knock, and it would appear it flashes up in-game on FM12, but still only notifying you he 'has a knock'. Even if it didn't specify the injury exactly, but narrowed it to a category - head, knee, foot - it would make it easier to decide if he should come off or not.

Maybe this is on the cards, I don't know, I'm guessing everything will be explained in a lot more detail soon. I would say first impressions for tactics blog - 7/10. Good improvements, but don't seem to go far enough.

The Welsh Lad
13-09-2011, 18:14
I am looking forward to this year FM like no other might be the first one I buy on release date normaly wait until the last patch.

I still can't believe how many people are still on about the changing of individual shouts to make custom ones. The shouts do what they say, the only thing you could customise is the name. 'Pass To Feet' is what is says how can it be changed differently. The grouping of shouts is far better and can be customised to suit a different type of play so if your slow, short passing, patient work the ball into box isn't being effect effective then instead of pressing, Get the ball forward, pass to space etc. one by one, you can group it under one shout making it much more fluid which is always a good thing in my book.

brt
13-09-2011, 18:14
I would like to have a possibility to prepare some options just before the match gets started. For example, if my team concedes a goal, the tactics changes the way I set before the game (e.g. to more attacking-minded). Or if I score a goal, my team tries to waste time automatically. Sorry for my English, hope you understand me :)

And by the way - when is the next blog coming out?

The Welsh Lad
13-09-2011, 18:21
I would like to have a possibility to prepare some options just before the match gets started. For example, if my team concedes a goal, the tactics changes the way I set before the game (e.g. to more attacking-minded). Or if I score a goal, my team tries to waste time automatically. Sorry for my English, hope you understand me :)

And by the way - when is the next blog coming out?

You will be able to do that with the ability to set-up 3 different tactic's they could be all the same formation but with different Mentalities and Instructions

pigfacemonkeyman
13-09-2011, 18:24
I am looking forward to this year FM like no other might be the first one I buy on release date normaly wait until the last patch.

I still can't believe how many people are still on about the changing of individual shouts to make custom ones. The shouts do what they say, the only thing you could customise is the name. 'Pass To Feet' is what is says how can it be changed differently. The grouping of shouts is far better and can be customised to suit a different type of play so if your slow, short passing, patient work the ball into box isn't being effect effective then instead of pressing, Get the ball forward, pass to space etc. one by one, you can group it under one shout making it much more fluid which is always a good thing in my book.

Pass To Feet rather than head
Pass to Feet rather than into space

there's two. ;)

Siven
13-09-2011, 18:59
While i like the new layout and options i do think the tactics board could do with a revamp.

Example being i want my 2nd striker to play just off the front man but not in the AM position. Most know that its typically the DLF on support option, but it would be great if it actually showed that his position is just off the front man but not deep enough to be called an AM.

Same thing with other positions. Show the slight position changes on the tactics board so that people can see the difference some options make and so that the tactics screen doesnt seem so rigid and flat (thats how i see the FM tactics screen now) compared to things like the lineups on http://www.zonalmarking.net/.

theboydonegood
13-09-2011, 19:03
Siven, you can tweak the position using mentality, i.e a forward with a lower mentality will play deeper than one with a higher mentality, the downside though is that the mentality also affects the players behaviour on the ball and how conservative or other wise they are in possession.

I agree you should have free reign as to where you you place a player within a set boundary like the fifa tactics screen where you can move the cf about but if you put him too deep he becomes an amc etc

postal postie
13-09-2011, 19:39
This sums it up for me really.

Did I read/view it correctly and see that you can save settings to individual players as well as formations? I.e. I have two AML, one left footed, one right footed - I can save the cut inside option for the right-footed one, and hug touchline for the left and the tactics update depending on who I pick?

But yes, the custom shouts looks like the simple addition that can really make a difference.

by the sounds of your explanation, it seems that your reading into it that you can save the player tactics against the player. I read it that it is saved against the 'pre-saved' tactics. Which is abit like how it currently works in FM2011.
so if you have a flat 442 and a CM that is attacking, if you then play a defensive 442, that CM turns into a defensive player, regardless of who that player is (position specific). Rather than you being able to save the tactics against the player.

could be wrong though.

Lazaru5
13-09-2011, 19:58
by the sounds of your explanation, it seems that your reading into it that you can save the player tactics against the player. I read it that it is saved against the 'pre-saved' tactics. Which is abit like how it currently works in FM2011.
so if you have a flat 442 and a CM that is attacking, if you then play a defensive 442, that CM turns into a defensive player, regardless of who that player is (position specific). Rather than you being able to save the tactics against the player.

could be wrong though.

I thought it gave you the option to save a role for each player per tactic (x3)... or maybe I read too much into it or wanted too much? It was the opinion I got from watching the blog...

The Welsh Lad
13-09-2011, 20:07
I just watched it again to make sure and it does look like it only sets the player role per tactic. Not per player has such. So if you were playing 4-2-3-1 DM and decided to change to 4-2-3-1 CM then the roles will automatically change but not if you bring on a AM for a DM in a flat 4-4-2 for instance you would have to change the players role manually.

Thats how I took it, but hey we'll know for definate soon

7Bestie7
13-09-2011, 20:18
I'd like to see many more roles as well as more customisation options within those roles. More refined control over width so that you could for example be compact in defense but still hit the teams down the flanks in attack. Better control over set pieces etc etc. Maybe these improvements are there in FM12 but it seems strange not to indroduce them in a blog dedicated to tactical improvements if so. Have to wait and see I guess.

1 - You do realise that there aren't that many roles in football? Any other "role" being played by a player right now that isn't included in the game are only down to invididual instructions from the managers which can be roughly recreated by us now. There are only three aspects of the roles which are arguably capable of being improved. Liberi in the CB position, the Busquets DM role and proper wide FL/FR roles.

2 - That's doable now by changing the width instructions on the player screens. Not ideal but most teams have a main width they play to and then this is changed in-game by the players/roles the manager uses. There's no real team who play with two distinct differences of width between defence and attack.

SCIAG
13-09-2011, 20:25
I just watched it again to make sure and it does look like it only sets the player role per tactic. Not per player has such. So if you were playing 4-2-3-1 DM and decided to change to 4-2-3-1 CM then the roles will automatically change but not if you bring on a AM for a DM in a flat 4-4-2 for instance you would have to change the players role manually.

Thats how I took it, but hey we'll know for definate soon
That's what it looked like to me as well. Essentially, it seems to be the system we have now, but with the UI linked to Match Prep.

1 - You do realise that there aren't that many roles in football? Any other "role" being played by a player right now that isn't included in the game are only down to invididual instructions from the managers which can be roughly recreated by us now.
But if you overwrite an individual instruction (like mentality), it will stay overwritten if you change your strategy or shouts. Custom roles would help get around that.

The Welsh Lad
13-09-2011, 21:06
What you really have to do is know your players and their strengths and weaknesses because has we know not every AMC is alike some can take long shots some can't. So before each game you will have to look at your 15 players and decided that I will start with these players playing this tactic, if you have to bring on a more attacking midfielder and you'll need to change the style of play to fit him in. SO when you go into the match you will have you Starting tactic and one or two for the changes in style of play. (So when you bring him on you change the tactics aswell). So all the main instruction work is done before the match starts. I think the problem is that there are only 3 set tactics because on my FM11 save I have about 10 I can choose from, with regards to different players playing in the same position i.e Ashley Young and Stewert Downing both AMLs but different settings. (I know I wont have that problem in FM12, money grabbers lol only joking).

Aim_Less
13-09-2011, 21:10
Disappointed with the fact they dint mention any improvements on the set piece creator

dfgrigg
13-09-2011, 23:40
What widget are you talking about? From fm12 from last video?

Sorry, I mixed up my words. I'm talking about the assistant manager feedback during a match, in FM11.

dfgrigg
13-09-2011, 23:50
I do wonder why the player's injury still isn't specified when he picks it up in game. If a goalkeeper has a bruised head, he can play on. If a striker has a sprained wrist, he can play on. But if someone's pulled their hammy I want to know it's a leg injury and bring him off. In FM11 it only says he has a green-cross knock, and it would appear it flashes up in-game on FM12, but still only notifying you he 'has a knock'. Even if it didn't specify the injury exactly, but narrowed it to a category - head, knee, foot - it would make it easier to decide if he should come off or not.

This is already in the game, sort of. When a player picks up a knock during a match, if you go onto his player profile screen it will say where on the body the injury is. It's not hugely specific: normally something like 'has potential knee injury' or has 'potential upper body injury'. Sometimes it says nothing, in which case there apparently is no injury, which is a little odd but never mind.

It would be good if this information could be added to the assistant manager's feedback to make it more obvious and accessible during the match.

7Bestie7
13-09-2011, 23:50
That's what it looked like to me as well. Essentially, it seems to be the system we have now, but with the UI linked to Match Prep.

But if you overwrite an individual instruction (like mentality), it will stay overwritten if you change your strategy or shouts. Custom roles would help get around that.

Agreed and if we never had the TC and Role options I would say this was a much needed addition but I don't think it's that important. Shouts which effect user changes might be a better option but I see the same issue coming up even with those. Namely if there is something that is personally changed from a pre-set, then it's because you want a player to play in a very specific way regardless of the rest of the team's instructions. If I have deliberately told my inside forwards that they can have maximum creativity, regardless of if I am using Standard, Balanced or Attacking, why would I want that changed via the shouts?

The Welsh Lad
13-09-2011, 23:59
This is already in the game, sort of. When a player picks up a knock during a match, if you go onto his player profile screen it will say where on the body the injury is. It's not hugely specific: normally something like 'has potential knee injury' or has 'potential upper body injury'. Sometimes it says nothing, in which case there apparently is no injury, which is a little odd but never mind.

It would be good if this information could be added to the assistant manager's feedback to make it more obvious and accessible during the match.

I know what you mean with this going slightlyoff topic of tactics but I had a player stretchered off and one picked up a knock, had to sub the one carried off but also subbed the one that had a knock has a precaution (in a friendly) after the match in my inbox, the player who picked up a knock was out for 3 weeks whilst the one stretchered off was fine not even out for a day

pigfacemonkeyman
14-09-2011, 00:05
Agreed and if we never had the TC and Role options I would say this was a much needed addition but I don't think it's that important. Shouts which effect user changes might be a better option but I see the same issue coming up even with those. Namely if there is something that is personally changed from a pre-set, then it's because you want a player to play in a very specific way regardless of the rest of the team's instructions. If I have deliberately told my inside forwards that they can have maximum creativity, regardless of if I am using Standard, Balanced or Attacking, why would I want that changed via the shouts?

This is actually a way of customising your shouts.

Lazaru5
14-09-2011, 00:18
I know what you mean with this going slightlyoff topic of tactics but I had a player stretchered off and one picked up a knock, had to sub the one carried off but also subbed the one that had a knock has a precaution (in a friendly) after the match in my inbox, the player who picked up a knock was out for 3 weeks whilst the one stretchered off was fine not even out for a day

My club captain in FM09 was regularly stretchered off, usually early in games, and 99/100 times he was fine the next day... It appeared to be in matches where I played a weak eleven, youngsters with promise and such, rather than my strongest team or in matches where the opposition were a bit "rough" with him... I eventually decided he was just a pussy and couldn't handle the rough treatment or was scared of being on the receiving end should my team selection fail as this seemed to be the only reason. Give him a game against Real or Arsenal and he'd play the full 90, play him against Barnet and he'd be stretchered off inside the first 10 minutes.. 99% gtd!

blala
14-09-2011, 00:27
cooooool !!!!!!!

blala
14-09-2011, 00:33
i can't wait for the next blog which is after 30 min or less

blala
14-09-2011, 01:02
where's the next blog

DraganBC
14-09-2011, 01:05
Everybody Are Sleeping :eek:

Marz
14-09-2011, 01:07
Can we please have less bling bling features and more substance (for tactics) in FM13?

djvandyke
14-09-2011, 01:48
No change to tactics other than a prettier interface then.

wwfan
14-09-2011, 02:46
There are four new shouts, which nobody seems to have picked up on:

1: Play Ball out of Defence
2: Run at Defence
3: Play through Defence
4: Hit Early Crosses

juvito2k
14-09-2011, 02:51
Contrary to blog about scouting, nothing new, improvements in the interface that should already be included when Tatical creator came......

MRW
14-09-2011, 04:51
WOW - just simply - WOW - love the new Scouting Features - but these new Tactics features are EXACTLY what has been needed and are such a fantastic addition - making the game easier to use (not neccessarily easier to play - we dont neccessarily want that - just easier to use)...2012 is looking like it will be simply awesome!

Herter
14-09-2011, 07:17
Contrary to blog about scouting, nothing new, improvements in the interface that should already be included when Tatical creator came......

Well if there are improvement, then there is something new ;)

Scamp
14-09-2011, 07:22
0:29 into the blog the drop down menu has 'Team Meeting' and 'Team Policy' as options. These are additions to last years iteration.

Alessandro133
14-09-2011, 07:28
The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.
Where you saw this on video?
Hi assign roles only for first 11.


And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

own "Shouts" is just some set of standard shouts. You can't create a shout "Gerrard play deeper, the rest - the same".

mightymanager
14-09-2011, 09:18
0:29 into the blog the drop down menu has 'Team Meeting' and 'Team Policy' as options. These are additions to last years iteration.

What I meant is in the additional focus in match preparation.

crouchaldinho
14-09-2011, 09:32
Release date only about a month away then! :eek:

The new scouting stuff sounds excellent. A rehaul of scouting reports has been badly need for a long, long time!

The create your own shouts sounds really good. Again, I'm really pleased that they are working on something that I consider to be one of the most important parts of the game. I was annoyed that they stalled on doing more with the TC last year.

crouchaldinho
14-09-2011, 09:33
There are four new shouts, which nobody seems to have picked up on:

1: Play Ball out of Defence
2: Run at Defence
3: Play through Defence
4: Hit Early Crosses

I noticed! Do I win anything? :p

What precisely do they do to the tactical instructions WWFan? I could probably guess most of them actually but want the official info! ;)

crouchaldinho
14-09-2011, 09:36
What was the point that Miles was making about player instructions and not having to switch them to other tactics? :confused:

Was he saying that if you make advanced changes (e.g. if I was to change the creative freedom of a player) then that would apply to your backup tactics too? That confused me, to be honest. I wasn't sure what he was saying.

Are the advanced settings even still in? I didn't see the advanced settings panel. I hope they are!

Keyzer Soze
14-09-2011, 09:54
I didn.t even seen any button to Create, or Load, or save a tactic!

Kriss
14-09-2011, 10:15
I didn.t even seen any button to Create, or Load, or save a tactic!

It's all there, and more;)

wwfan
14-09-2011, 12:23
I noticed! Do I win anything? :p

What precisely do they do to the tactical instructions WWFan? I could probably guess most of them actually but want the official info! ;)

Roughly (it's been a while):

1: Minimises passing length in the back two strata
2: Increases dribbling a notch in the top two strata and/or most advanced wide player
3: Decreases dribbling a notch in the top two strata and/or most advanced wide player
4: Increases crossing and reduces cross from a notch for wide players

Keyzer Soze
14-09-2011, 12:43
just wondering, will a FM2011 tactic (built with the TC) work in FM2012?

mightymanager
14-09-2011, 16:37
The addition to assign a player a role is a change. Before you had to set the position in the formation and dedicate a role to that position. So putting a DM in the DM slot. If you subbed the DM for a AM you had to fiddle around with the DM role to get it to the AM role. Now if you have Miguel Velosso in the DM role and you sub him for Steven Gerrard, it will use the role you predefined in Steven Gerrards settings and not the DM role defined in the formation.

And the addition of building your own "Shouts" is also new.

How hard is that to understand?

If you replace a DM with with AM, you can also change the position on the pitch ( it will change itself ?))
I really don't undersantnd, please help !!!

pigfacemonkeyman
14-09-2011, 16:56
Roughly (it's been a while):

1: Minimises passing length in the back two strata
2: Increases dribbling a notch in the top two strata and/or most advanced wide player
3: Decreases dribbling a notch in the top two strata and/or most advanced wide player
4: Increases crossing and reduces cross from a notch for wide players

:confused: Run with ball?

pigfacemonkeyman
14-09-2011, 16:58
I noticed! Do I win anything? :p

What precisely do they do to the tactical instructions WWFan? I could probably guess most of them actually but want the official info! ;)

Do you have the official info on the existing shouts?

TSH
14-09-2011, 20:41
Isn't custom shouts just a quicker way to shout?

Why are people so excited about this?

Also, why can't I still put my players anywhere I want on the pitch when I'm making a tactic? And why can't I still make some specific lines of my tactic play wider, while keeping other lines closer, like real managers do?

How long must we wait for some actual improvements in the tactics area?

shirajzl
14-09-2011, 22:04
Isn't custom shouts just a quicker way to shout?
Why are people so excited about this?

It reduces the number of clicks, which is always a good thing.



Also, why can't I still put my players anywhere I want on the pitch when I'm making a tactic?

That's good old wib/wob making of tactics, and I think wwfan said it would never come back because with that system it's too easy to exploit the engine.



And why can't I still make some specific lines of my tactic play wider, while keeping other lines closer, like real managers do?

Now that's one the many tactical details that really need improvement in FM. TC and shouts are really nice, but they need to be more flexible and detailed (but should not force a user to overcomplicate things if he doesn't want to).

Johnjo
14-09-2011, 22:47
Not sure about the new interface....looks a little crowded and more "arcadey". Custom shouts will be a step in the right direction though.

mdbussen
14-09-2011, 22:54
There are four new shouts, which nobody seems to have picked up on:

1: Play Ball out of Defence
2: Run at Defence
3: Play through Defence
4: Hit Early Crosses

I believe these were all in FML ;)

wwfan
14-09-2011, 23:07
I believe these were all in FML ;)

Yes, they were, which is why my memory of their exact settings is a little shaky.


:confused: Run with ball?

Yes.



Do you have the official info on the existing shouts?

Yes. (http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/2009/11/04/touchline-instructions/)

pigfacemonkeyman
14-09-2011, 23:33
Thanks again wwfan.

moon_goat
15-09-2011, 00:33
Any actual changes to the tactics? Be it in the creator, or just simply being able to arrange your formation more freely? It's been glaringly obvious how limited it is for the past few versions, and it appears again it's been overlooked yet again for "features" (GUI changes and about 1000 different ways to influence team motivation) that add little to the actual gameplay (managing your team how you want)

If not, for something that's put forward as a simulation, it's remarkably restricting

Marz
15-09-2011, 12:16
Has the Match Engines ability/coding of the back 3 (DCL DC DCR, needed for formations like 343, 352/532 or 523) been polished/worked?

moon_goat
15-09-2011, 13:42
Has the Match Engines ability/coding of the back 3 (DCL DC DCR, needed for formations like 343, 352/532 or 523) been polished/worked?

Doubt it, it's pretty stupid that even within the formations and positions we're FORCED to use, we can't make certain positions behave like we want, or even like they should.

Can't see either of us getting a response though

Raymubdo21
15-09-2011, 14:04
the interface looks AMAZING love it, yes their will always be things people want different or not right but fair play to SI and getting this game even better and more exciting :)

themadsheep2001
15-09-2011, 14:14
Doubt it, it's pretty stupid that even within the formations and positions we're FORCED to use, we can't make certain positions behave like we want, or even like they should.

Can't see either of us getting a response though

You could just wait and see with the demo, much easier to see if they work.

7Bestie7
15-09-2011, 14:20
Madsheep, where would the fun in that be? People need their yearly moaning about how SI have failed to deliver.

pigfacemonkeyman
15-09-2011, 14:23
Madsheep, where would the fun in that be? People need their yearly moaning about how SI have failed to deliver.

And as SI drip feed us with info, they obviously agree. :D

Eugene Tyson
15-09-2011, 14:23
People need their yearly moaning about how SI have failed to deliver.

Without seeing/using the working product, I might add :D

7Bestie7
15-09-2011, 14:27
I wouldn't put it past SI to have turned this into a sport!

"Right lads...how can we word this post/edit this video to make it just vague enough to get complaints? And whose turn is it this year to set the over-under on moans?" :D

pigfacemonkeyman
15-09-2011, 14:58
It wouldn't be the first time. There's already "What's the smallest amount of information, about how the game works, we can get away with providing to the punters?" :D

Eugene Tyson
15-09-2011, 15:07
I believe these are called "teasers". When the demo is released we'll get a full whack of everything that's in the game, what's new, what's different etc.

pigfacemonkeyman
15-09-2011, 15:16
I believe these are called "teasers". When the demo is released we'll get a full whack of everything that's in the game, what's new, what's different etc.

You know, I almost couldn't stop myself...but I did. :lol:

chadnw
15-09-2011, 23:27
misunderstood it all

The Welsh Lad
15-09-2011, 23:38
The player instruction are set to the 3 different type of set tactics you can save only for first eleven, so if you want to bring an attacking CM for a defensive CM then you will have to manually change the role.

Stormwind City
16-09-2011, 10:13
WWFan,

your explanations imply, that you can have different passing and dribbling settings for different areas on the pitch. Is that a new feature? Do we have this possibility when we design shouts or manually set tactic settings, too?

bigman
16-09-2011, 13:45
love the new ideas and multiple tactics with player rolws kept

thank u si, looking forward to this game alot now¬!

Llew_Arshavin23
16-09-2011, 19:52
Not too sure about the Tactic's pitch, in all honesty. Looks quite dated; like the quick player roles method though :thup:

SeanNUFC
16-09-2011, 20:08
I really like the idea of custom shouts. Doesn't look poorly done either.

Marz
19-09-2011, 13:05
Doubt it, it's pretty stupid that even within the formations and positions we're FORCED to use, we can't make certain positions behave like we want, or even like they should.

Can't see either of us getting a response though

Guess you were right, pretty poor from the developers really. :applause:

The North End
20-09-2011, 11:49
Has anything been changed in term of the 'swap with' option?? I used to love that option but it became almost unusable last year as the players would swap roles as well, i.e. to a role that they didn't fit well.

For example, two wingers (one right footed, one left footed) when they swapped they remained wingers with 'hugs touchline', where ideally when they swapped they should become 'cuts inside'. I found no way round this without switching them manually which soon gets irritating.

paganizer
20-09-2011, 14:40
Doubt it, it's pretty stupid that even within the formations and positions we're FORCED to use, we can't make certain positions behave like we want, or even like they should.

Can't see either of us getting a response though

MAJOR letdown if this isn't fixed in 2012. It's all I want.. could care less about shouts and other weird stuff, like new camera angles and ****. Get grinding on the lack of flexibility in the ME tactics, SI! Or atleast fix the broken horizontal movement.

Foggy94
21-09-2011, 21:00
These new additions sound good, especially being able to save specific roles to the player and not the position on the pitch. Anybody else think players should be able to swap position with more than one player though? The team i support, Blackpool, play with 3 strikers up top and at times all three are interlinking and swapping positions. I tried to do this just now with my Villa team as a I play 4-2-3-1 with Hazard, Young and Downing (all 3 can play across the attacking midfield positions) but I found that you can only only swap positions between two players. Probably a minor issue and I dont even usually use that tool but it certainly happens IRL so could be a good addition.

Foggy94
22-09-2011, 19:25
For example, two wingers (one right footed, one left footed) when they swapped they remained wingers with 'hugs touchline', where ideally when they swapped they should become 'cuts inside'. I found no way round this without switching them manually which soon gets irritating.

I think the best thing to do for that probably is to put it to 'move into channels', sort of like the best of both worlds i think

shad0wdr3w
23-09-2011, 13:00
the custom shout is definitely impressive but i guessing it would have to be explain more in-depth for people who are weak in the english like me....for example i don't understand what the shout of Hassle opponent means and stand-off opponent really mean...

pigfacemonkeyman
23-09-2011, 13:37
the custom shout is definitely impressive but i guessing it would have to be explain more in-depth for people who are weak in the english like me....for example i don't understand what the shout of Hassle opponent means and stand-off opponent really mean...

From wwfan:

Closing Down Modifiers

Hassle Opponents
Effect: Instructs the team to close down the opposition and reduce the space available.
Action: Vastly increases closing down settings, changes marking to tight-man, increases tempo.
Useful: When needing to regain possession quickly; when playing against a slow, technically inferior team; when needing to reduce space for the opposition.

Stand-Off Opponents
Effect: Instructs the team to hold back from the opposition and try to direct them away from danger.
Action: Vastly decreases closing down settings, changes marking to loose-zonal, decreases tempo.
Useful: When playing against a quick, technically superior team; when needing to hold team defensive shape; when looking for more space to break down a team who refuse to come out of their own half.

TimTaine
24-09-2011, 05:34
All sounds very good, can't wait to get to exploring the game. Only things I really want that I haven't seen regarding tactics are with and without possession instructions and more control over set-pieces, i.e. comprehensive design over runs an positions as well as exactly who takes free kicks and what they do with them in various areas of the pitch.

Being able to permanently assign roles/tactics/instructions to specific players rather than just that position sounds superb though if I've understood it right and this will be included, something that has frustrated me constantly in particular is having to reassign set piece positioning when changing them players around.

Love the sound of the tone thing regarding team talks and touchline shouts. I just hope that they are implemented quicker, far too many times I've conceded while having waited 4 or 5 minutes for tactics and/or substitutions to be implemented (regardless of the amount of stoppages in play), they need to actually work as a shout would. Motivational shouts would be great too.

Will it be possible to apply the shouts multiple times, it would be good to have sort of multiple levels to the shouts for when the players don't listen the first time, i.e. "work ball into box" and players still waste too many chances shooting inaccurately from range.

Tonymorton
24-09-2011, 10:51
All these new additions look good, but there is one thing that I really really want in tactics!

I want the ability to exactly position a player on the pitch, not to some preset locking slots. Come on guys, even Fifa implemented this years ago! I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other, one of my CB slightly deeper and one of my strikers slightly wider.

Please sort this out!!!!

Fabio MVP
24-09-2011, 11:23
All these new additions look good, but there is one thing that I really really want in tactics!

I want the ability to exactly position a player on the pitch, not to some preset locking slots. Come on guys, even Fifa implemented this years ago! I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other, one of my CB slightly deeper and one of my strikers slightly wider.

Please sort this out!!!!
You do that by giving them different duties and adjusting their mentalities. I can still see where are you coming from, but personally I like it this way.

themadsheep2001
24-09-2011, 11:31
You do that by giving them different duties and adjusting their mentalities. I can still see where are you coming from, but personally I like it this way.

I would like to see a screen that shows how they line up on the pitch with changes (hope i explained that right) but agree you can do that already with duties and mentalities

Fabio MVP
24-09-2011, 11:51
I would like to see a screen that shows how they line up on the pitch with changes (hope i explained that right) but agree you can do that already with duties and mentalities
I understand you and that would be a nice touch. To have an alternative tactic screen showing us where players are exactly placed on the pitch when we assign them roles and duties.

Marz
24-09-2011, 15:25
All these new additions look good, but there is one thing that I really really want in tactics!

I want the ability to exactly position a player on the pitch, not to some preset locking slots. Come on guys, even Fifa implemented this years ago! I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other, one of my CB slightly deeper and one of my strikers slightly wider.

Please sort this out!!!!

The problem is that the current match engine has 5 vertical lines of positions (starting positions):-

Line 1: SWL-----DL----WBL------ML----AML-----SL
Line 3: SWCL----DCL--DMCL----MCL---AMCL----SCL
Line 4: SWC-----DC----DMC-----MC----AMC-----SC
Line 5: SWCR---DCR---DMCR---MCR---AMCR---SCR
Line 7: SWR-----DR----WBR-----MR----AMR-----SR

Lines 3 & 5, position the player(s) centrally. So you cannot instruct players to have a starting position which is ‘in-between the lines’ or in a semi-wide role (when playing against a formation such as flat 442).
“I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other”. At the moment moving a wingers’ position more infield would for example be:-

MR (from Line7) to (Line 5) MCR. He would line up directly against the opposition MCL, who is the oppositions central (left) midfielder in a flat 4 in midfield. When all you want is for this player to start of in a position in-between the lines (between the oppositions ML & MCL) in theory MRC (missing Line 6).

The solution that I posted sometime before FM11, is to have 2 more vertical lines into the match engine:-

Line 2: SWLC----DLC----DMLC----MLC----AMLC----SLC
Line 6: SWRC----DRC----DMRC---MRC----AMRC----SRC

This would then see the match engine have 7 vertical lines of positions (starting positions):-

Line 1: SWL------DL-----WBL-----ML-----AML-----SL
Line 2: SWLC---DLC---DMLC---MLC---AMLC---SLC
Line 3: SWCL-----DCL---DMCL----MCL---AMCL----SCL
Line 4: SWC------DC----DMC------MC----AMC-----SC
Line 5: SWCR----DCR---DMCR----MCR---AMCR---SCR
Line 6: SWRC---DRC--DMRC---MRC--AMRC---SRC
Line 7: SWR------DR----WBR-----MR-----AMR-----SR

Lines 2 & 6, should position the player(s) semi-wide. So you should be able to instruct players to have a starting position which is ‘in-between the lines’ (when playing against a formation like flat 442).
As mentioned before “I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other”:-

MR (from Line7) to (Line 6) MRC. He would not line up directly against the opposition MCL (who is the oppositions central [left] midfielder in a flat 4 in midfield). Instead he would be in a position “in-between the lines” in theory MRC.

Robert the Spud
24-09-2011, 16:52
All these new additions look good, but there is one thing that I really really want in tactics!

I want the ability to exactly position a player on the pitch, not to some preset locking slots. Come on guys, even Fifa implemented this years ago! I want to be able to position one of my wingers slightly more inside than the other, one of my CB slightly deeper and one of my strikers slightly wider.

Please sort this out!!!!

I want this too, for sure. More so horizontally, rather than vertically, so I can put one winger closer inside than out. I'd find this so much more simple than setting mentalities.

Ranbir
25-09-2011, 15:03
Just one question:

Can I go back to classic mode?

pauly1
26-09-2011, 03:26
is it me or does the tactics pitch look pants i dont really see the need to have condition ect on the tactic pitch next to the player i prefare this classic sort of pitch http://postimage.org/image/2ato8uof8/ or maybe the match of the day,sky sports or champions league type ect

Marz
26-09-2011, 12:39
I want this too, for sure. More so horizontally, rather than vertically, so I can put one winger closer inside than out. I'd find this so much more simple than setting mentalities.

Mentalities would do next to nothing anyway in terms of positional play horizontally (left <-> right); putting one winger closer inside than out. So extra vertical positions would be needed for this (left <-> right) positional play to occur.
What we have got right now hug touchline, move into channels and cut inside, are movement instructions. Rather that positional instructions like putting a winger closer inside (Line6 MRC or AMRC).

onebelo
03-10-2011, 09:39
i dont understand why the tactics screen isnt layed out in two pages, When in Possesion and When not in Possession. seriously this is so simple yet so important to a gameplan.

i like to play 4-1-2-3 and while it may start out like that, when im in possession i want my 2 cbs to go very wide to create space for the attack, with the DM dropping a lil deep to receieve a pass if needed, and my full backs turning in to wide midfielders. in possession this would turn into a very wide 2-1-2-2-1 essentially

but when i lose the ball i want to set defensive tactics and what my players should do solely without the ball. i would make my top line hold a more rigid structure but with some hard pressing up top. turning into a narrow 4-1-4-1.

seriously this is something so basic yet SO IMPORTANT that i cant believe its not in!

onebelo
03-10-2011, 09:39
i dont understand why the tactics screen isnt layed out in two pages, When in Possesion and When not in Possession. seriously this is so simple yet so important to a gameplan.

i like to play 4-1-2-3 and while it may start out like that, when im in possession i want my 2 cbs to go very wide to create space for the attack, with the DM dropping a lil deep to receieve a pass if needed, and my full backs turning in to wide midfielders. in possession this would turn into a very wide 2-1-2-2-1 essentially

but when i lose the ball i want to set defensive tactics and what my players should do solely without the ball. i would make my top line hold a more rigid structure but with some hard pressing up top. turning into a narrow 4-1-4-1.

seriously this is something so basic yet SO IMPORTANT that i cant believe its not in!

tigerhgrrrrrr
03-10-2011, 12:01
i dont understand why the tactics screen isnt layed out in two pages, When in Possesion and When not in Possession. seriously this is so simple yet so important to a gameplan.

i like to play 4-1-2-3 and while it may start out like that, when im in possession i want my 2 cbs to go very wide to create space for the attack, with the DM dropping a lil deep to receieve a pass if needed, and my full backs turning in to wide midfielders. in possession this would turn into a very wide 2-1-2-2-1 essentially

but when i lose the ball i want to set defensive tactics and what my players should do solely without the ball. i would make my top line hold a more rigid structure but with some hard pressing up top. turning into a narrow 4-1-4-1.

seriously this is something so basic yet SO IMPORTANT that i cant believe its not in!

This is a commonly held opinion. It seems SI jusy cannot implement it even now although in CM2001/2 they had a similar system, despite any faults it may have had. Also whilst I understand that setting barrow/farrows via the formation display can cause unrealistic tactics to gain an advantage through ME exloitation surely the time is right to at least use barrow/farrows to indicate the positional movement that the team & player tactics are implementing, in other words purely as a display device rather thatn a tactical tool.

onebelo
03-10-2011, 13:06
that doesnt surprise me it is a commonly held opinion. it should be the highest priority for football manager 2012. I want my wingers track back when not in possesion but i also want them to attack minded, this basically ends up with them not doing any defending or always staying back. no possession/possession tactics would fix so many problems.

but i dont understand your idea, why does that matter if its purely a display device? plus i dont even use the arrows as dont u need to be in classic view to grt arrows? (im new to fm)


also just to add another idea for matches:

- Free Roam Role, id like to have a winger (mata because i support chelsea) who drifts everywhere around the pitch (no, the free roam option doesnt do this)

- more spots on the pitch. right now i think there'd be 5 straight lines on the pitch, they should make it 7 lines so i can have my wingers a little more inside, but not to inside so that they count as forwards. i find my wingers far to isolated for what i try to achieve with my play

- better finishing - ive had a few seasons at chelsea now at Torres shooting and mental are roughly around 16/17 yet my god does he miss his 1v1's. i wont say anymore on this because i did read the alread large thread concerning this bug.

- generally more options/sliders.. whatever options they put in, add sliders! like my wingers, if i choose cut inside, i dont want to ALWAYS cut inside, so make a slider of rarely to often for cut inside/hug touch line. more options/personalisation is only a good thing.

sorry i dont know if this a recommendation thread but these things stood out to me after my first few seasons

Lazaru5
03-10-2011, 14:10
i dont understand why the tactics screen isnt layed out in two pages, When in Possesion and When not in Possession. seriously this is so simple yet so important to a gameplan.

i like to play 4-1-2-3 and while it may start out like that, when im in possession i want my 2 cbs to go very wide to create space for the attack, with the DM dropping a lil deep to receieve a pass if needed, and my full backs turning in to wide midfielders. in possession this would turn into a very wide 2-1-2-2-1 essentially

but when i lose the ball i want to set defensive tactics and what my players should do solely without the ball. i would make my top line hold a more rigid structure but with some hard pressing up top. turning into a narrow 4-1-4-1.

seriously this is something so basic yet SO IMPORTANT that i cant believe its not in!


This is a commonly held opinion. It seems SI jusy cannot implement it even now although in CM2001/2 they had a similar system, despite any faults it may have had. Also whilst I understand that setting barrow/farrows via the formation display can cause unrealistic tactics to gain an advantage through ME exloitation surely the time is right to at least use barrow/farrows to indicate the positional movement that the team & player tactics are implementing, in other words purely as a display device rather thatn a tactical tool.


that doesnt surprise me it is a commonly held opinion. it should be the highest priority for football manager 2012. I want my wingers track back when not in possesion but i also want them to attack minded, this basically ends up with them not doing any defending or always staying back. no possession/possession tactics would fix so many problems.

but i dont understand your idea, why does that matter if its purely a display device? plus i dont even use the arrows as dont u need to be in classic view to grt arrows? (im new to fm)


also just to add another idea for matches:

- Free Roam Role, id like to have a winger (mata because i support chelsea) who drifts everywhere around the pitch (no, the free roam option doesnt do this)

- more spots on the pitch. right now i think there'd be 5 straight lines on the pitch, they should make it 7 lines so i can have my wingers a little more inside, but not to inside so that they count as forwards. i find my wingers far to isolated for what i try to achieve with my play

- better finishing - ive had a few seasons at chelsea now at Torres shooting and mental are roughly around 16/17 yet my god does he miss his 1v1's. i wont say anymore on this because i did read the alread large thread concerning this bug.

- generally more options/sliders.. whatever options they put in, add sliders! like my wingers, if i choose cut inside, i dont want to ALWAYS cut inside, so make a slider of rarely to often for cut inside/hug touch line. more options/personalisation is only a good thing.

sorry i dont know if this a recommendation thread but these things stood out to me after my first few seasons

I can't take screenshots of the pitch in FM09, (but I can in FM11 :confused:) but I have my players all set to an attacking mentality and the team instructions are also set to attacking yet my players defend together as a team... the last game I played last evening before going to bed I tried to take a screenie of all my 11 players defending in and around our box but all I got was a black screen so I can't show you that. I also found myself chuckling at one incident when the opposition got behind my defence in the penalty area, the player who eventually tackled the attacker at the byline/6yd box was my World Class striker who's supposed to be the furthest forward (he'd tracked the player...).

Now this is in FM09... admittedly using a tactic created in FM11 and regressed, but still... The only thing I can say is it must be your tactics. My players track back, double up, close down, defend from the front, cover for each other and generally play football as one "expects" it to be played.. if yours don't then it's not SI's fault; it simply can't be or mine wouldn't either... *shrugs*

For the record they also do the same in FM11 but I've lost interest in that version now...

FWIW - try increasing creative freedom on your free-role players to maximum or almost maximum... i.e. "give them their heads"

onebelo
04-10-2011, 00:35
so by what you have said, youve set everything to ATTACK yet for some reason they are disregarding this and do defensive work? i mean ur strikers on at the 6yard box when uve got him on attack totally disregarding your instructions? (for the record this doesnt happen for me at all)

anyways its sort of beside the point, if you had 2 options of possession/no possesion then you could use custismise exactly how you want your striker to behave in defense and attack. simply really. but i wont say anymore since its apparently already a big issue around here!

Lazaru5
04-10-2011, 01:21
so by what you have said, youve set everything to ATTACK yet for some reason they are disregarding this and do defensive work? i mean ur strikers on at the 6yard box when uve got him on attack totally disregarding your instructions? (for the record this doesnt happen for me at all)

anyways its sort of beside the point, if you had 2 options of possession/no possesion then you could use custismise exactly how you want your striker to behave in defense and attack. simply really. but i wont say anymore since its apparently already a big issue around here!

I think it's more the fluidity - high creative freedom alongside attacking mentalities and high closing down - they work hard for the team :p

FWIW here's the team and individual settings that we currently start games with, the team passing style, mentality and tempo will all change during a match, as will time-wasting sometimes. Everything else is left untouched and the most any slider moves is 3 or 4 clicks to the left (except time-wasting)

http://i53.tinypic.com/wl24hv.png

http://i53.tinypic.com/ohlrpt.png

http://i53.tinypic.com/vwwjd3.png

As mentioned, this was created in FM11's Tactics Creator then converted to classic, tweaked a little, then copied into FM09 and tweaked a little more. With the formation I employ it translates in the Match Engine (in both 09 and 11) into a (fairly) high tempo, short, slick passing game not unlike Barcelona's IRL with a similar sort of work-rate defensively. I even used an FM11 Barca save to tweak it before copying it into the 09 save because I created it with a not very good Championship Hereford team. It was inspired by watching the Champions League Final this year, I thought to myself that I wanted my team to play like that... et voila!

EDIT: *Still a Work In Progress*

milnerpoint
04-10-2011, 09:43
anyways its sort of beside the point, if you had 2 options of possession/no possesion then you could use custismise exactly how you want your striker to behave in defense and attack. simply really. but i wont say anymore since its apparently already a big issue around here!

Its not realistic tho, no manager tells a player exactly where to stand when they dont have the ball, and your example of the two center backs pushing out to the full back areas so your center mid can drop back into a center half role to pick up the ball is ludicrous. No team would EVER employ a tactic like that. The arrows were removed for a very good reason, they lead to very unrealistic tactics being created that would pull the ME appart trying to defend against ghosts.
Everything you used to be able to do with the arrows you can do now with instructions, at least every realistic thing.

paganizer
04-10-2011, 10:14
Its not realistic tho, no manager tells a player exactly where to stand when they dont have the ball, and your example of the two center backs pushing out to the full back areas so your center mid can drop back into a center half role to pick up the ball is ludicrous. No team would EVER employ a tactic like that. The arrows were removed for a very good reason, they lead to very unrealistic tactics being created that would pull the ME appart trying to defend against ghosts.
Everything you used to be able to do with the arrows you can do now with instructions, at least every realistic thing.

Maybe you should do a little research before commenting on stuff you obviously have no clue about. Pushing centre backs wide and having the defensive midfielder drop deep might not be common, but is certainly being used. Barcelona has used it on occasion and so has the danish national team and I saw it used by AGF in the danish superleague this weekend.
It actually makes a lot of sense. Let me list a couple of them:

1. Centre backs go wide, push full backs op to wing positions and wingers move inside towards the striker (or midfield) - > you get more forward passing options (only 3 in the back when building play)
2. A defensive midfielder (deep lying playmaker type) is much more comfortable on the ball (less error prone) than most central defenders and as such will be the better choice for building play... be it long ball or short pass.

Overall an obvious choice if you like to build up play by passing the ball and your central defenders are not that great on the ball and you have a deep lying playmaker.

rune_star
04-10-2011, 10:59
No team would EVER employ a tactic like that.

Exactly what Paganizer says... Barcelona did this A LOT for the past two seasons, as have the Danish national team (among others) for years... This year Guardiola experiments with a new formation (3-4-3), so they're not using it to the same extent this season.

It's considered a 'modern' approach to the build up as it gives you way more options during that crucial phase of play for a controlling ball possesing team. It does however come with a risk, as the DMC can get isolated pretty fast if the connecting players are too far apart and opponent presses high and hard on the carrier and the wide DC's. A perfect example of this was given during the World cup in the Denmark - Cameroun game which ended 2-1 to Denmark despite the error seen in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfVidoWe50&feature=related

Watch the first couple of seconds to see what happens when the goalie recieves the ball. The two DC's move out wide, and the DMC comes deep. Note that you can't see any other Danish players in the screen at the time, as the fullbacks and everybody else are way further up the field. In this example, the Camerounians (?) know what's going on, so Poulsen (DMC) is forced into making that terrible mistake which led to the Cameroun goal ;) But you can find plenty of other examples where that exact same build up is a succes. You're simply overloading the opponent with passing options and players "out of position" making it extremely difficult to counter...

Lazaru5
04-10-2011, 11:04
Maybe you should do a little research before commenting on stuff you obviously have no clue about. Pushing centre backs wide and having the defensive midfielder drop deep might not be common, but is certainly being used. Barcelona has used it on occasion and so has the danish national team and I saw it used by AGF in the danish superleague this weekend.
It actually makes a lot of sense. Let me list a couple of them:

1. Centre backs go wide, push full backs op to wing positions and wingers move inside towards the striker (or midfield) - > you get more forward passing options (only 3 in the back when building play)
2. A defensive midfielder (deep lying playmaker type) is much more comfortable on the ball (less error prone) than most central defenders and as such will be the better choice for building play... be it long ball or short pass.

Overall an obvious choice if you like to build up play by passing the ball and your central defenders are not that great on the ball and you have a deep lying playmaker.

It's not the DM that drops deep to make the three.. when one full-back goes forward the other tucks-in to make 3 at the back, when the other full-back goes forward the roles are reversed. Man Utd do this quite effectively,with Evra pushing up to almost a high winger position with the "winger" tucking in behind the front two, it creates a psuedo 3-2-3-2 formation with the CM's dropping deeper to hold midfield/protect the back three but not into the back-line as you suggest they should.

paganizer
04-10-2011, 11:47
It's not the DM that drops deep to make the three.. when one full-back goes forward the other tucks-in to make 3 at the back, when the other full-back goes forward the roles are reversed. Man Utd do this quite effectively,with Evra pushing up to almost a high winger position with the "winger" tucking in behind the front two, it creates a psuedo 3-2-3-2 formation with the CM's dropping deeper to hold midfield/protect the back three but not into the back-line as you suggest they should.

Well im sure there are different versions. The asymetric style would work aswell and fits well with the United style. I imagine it depends mostly on what players are available. Also it might suit a "4-4-2" better, whereas the one I described is used mostly by 4-5-1/4-3-3 teams.

onebelo
04-10-2011, 21:51
I think it's more the fluidity - high creative freedom alongside attacking mentalities and high closing down - they work hard for the team :p

FWIW here's the team and individual settings that we currently start games with, the team passing style, mentality and tempo will all change during a match, as will time-wasting sometimes. Everything else is left untouched and the most any slider moves is 3 or 4 clicks to the left (except time-wasting)

As mentioned, this was created in FM11's Tactics Creator then converted to classic, tweaked a little, then copied into FM09 and tweaked a little more. With the formation I employ it translates in the Match Engine (in both 09 and 11) into a (fairly) high tempo, short, slick passing game not unlike Barcelona's IRL with a similar sort of work-rate defensively. I even used an FM11 Barca save to tweak it before copying it into the 09 save because I created it with a not very good Championship Hereford team. It was inspired by watching the Champions League Final this year, I thought to myself that I wanted my team to play like that... et voila!

EDIT: *Still a Work In Progress*

you may have found a nice formation for yourself but you have Attacking high, creative freedom normal and press normal. now why would this indicate for your wingers be tracking back the whole pitch or your Striker to be back at the 6 yard box? this is about YOU choosing what tactics YOUR team does. you havent told any players to behave like what youve said they have done and thats the problem. surely u see my point here...

onebelo
04-10-2011, 21:57
Its not realistic tho, no manager tells a player exactly where to stand when they dont have the ball, and your example of the two center backs pushing out to the full back areas so your center mid can drop back into a center half role to pick up the ball is ludicrous. No team would EVER employ a tactic like that. The arrows were removed for a very good reason, they lead to very unrealistic tactics being created that would pull the ME appart trying to defend against ghosts.
Everything you used to be able to do with the arrows you can do now with instructions, at least every realistic thing.

are you kidding ?? of course they tell them where to position themselves when not in possesion. you think managers dont bother with this part of the game? when ashley cole is not in possession i want to instruct him to run back and help the defence. Yes he may have trouble if he gets caught out or if double teamed but thats sounds hmmm i dont know REALISTIC??

you are crazy. barcelona have been kings of this tactic for the past 2-3 seasons and AVB has played like this all season. infact pretty much every team who plays 4-3-3 employs a tactic similar to this. the CB's play veryyy wide, with 1 middy coming VERY deep, almost as a 3rd CB, with the other middys a tiny further up waiting to receieve the pass and they have space because the full backs turn in Wide Midfielders creating big space in the centre of the park. i dont what youve been doing for the past 4 years, probably playing FM only and not watching real football because this is such a common tactic now

Lazaru5
05-10-2011, 00:07
you may have found a nice formation for yourself but you have Attacking high, creative freedom normal and press normal. now why would this indicate for your wingers be tracking back the whole pitch or your Striker to be back at the 6 yard box? this is about YOU choosing what tactics YOUR team does. you havent told any players to behave like what youve said they have done and thats the problem. surely u see my point here...

and I think you've misread the tactics...

sure the TEAM CF settings might be normal, but the individual player settings are high, even the centre-backs at "normal" CF individual instructions is quite high... same thing applies to individual closing down, all high even though the team setting is a click or two off whole pitch and then all the players (except the keeper atm) have their mentalities set to Attacking (various levels of) - it's probably this setting that makes them want to win the ball because you can't "attack" without it...

The team and individual instructions work in-tandem with each other, not either/or as so many people seem to think...

Bobble2002
05-10-2011, 00:34
No sign of being able to give a single player instructions from the sideline so far . IE being able to tell a player to buck his ideas up or you will sub him etc or tell him to get stuck in with the tackles

Ginola*
05-10-2011, 13:24
Doesn't look like any new revolutionary changes, just a lot of common sense ones that will make things a lot easier, cut out the annoying stuff and make the tactics less time consuming. This imo is a good thing

Chriisy
05-10-2011, 21:39
This looks fantastic, can't wait

lilljons
08-10-2011, 18:28
Im a bit bummed out that you cant do the busquets-role which many teams in the modern football employ. What i mean is ofc where the dm drops in between the DC's in possession, the DC spread and the wingbacks push up making it more of a 3-4-3 formation attacking. Biggest disappointment imo. I think that the ME should evolve as the modern football does. At least for me it's a big factor to be able to emulate RL tactics. Otherwise FM12 looks good, but this is a big downer.