Should a player's contract details remain hidden?

If you think about a real life situation, a player from Team B could be on £55k p/w. Now is it likely a manager or scout or assistant manager would know what that figure is at Team A for example?

Personally - I don't think so. Salaries are often the subject of much speculation in the British press - and I'm sure elsewhere in the football world. This is contrary to a lot of the American sports but as far as I know, this is largely kept confidential.

I realise that this info could be made available via an agent or the managment of Team A should they look to sell, but on the face of it (and in FM) should the player search screen contain such accurate details of a players contract?

It is the same for transfer values in my opinion. How do we quantify the value of a player? It is surely down to the valuation imposed by the club that owns the player. But this would surely only be in place if that club were looking to sell the player. If they were not, an N/A would be more realistic. Only once you entered negotiations could figures be discussed. Obviously, the major transfers around the world would be made public but in this day and age - there are so many transfers cited as "undisclosed" that I feel this is something else that should be implemented in FM.

It could work in much the same way that the attribute masking system works - "player contract masking" for example. Transfer values would become more accurate (or at least within a range - like a scout can provide now) given the ability of your scout, the knowledge that your backroom team have of the residing players nation and the relative fame of the player.

I think this would add an extra dimension to management in FM and certainly a problem you see managers/boards having in real life - see Arsenal's reported £8m bid for Gary Cahill - hugely under-priced.

Thoughts everybody?

No. In real life i will bet my house that Arsene Wenger knows how much each and every player is on and even if he didnt he could just find out.And come on the public in FM are not even real its not like someone can complain that "so and so" wages are too high. The player value in FM is just nothing but a prediction around how much he is worth for example if PLAYER B is worth 15mil you would usually have to pay more than that so it doesnt really matter. Though i would agree on wages masking for players outside of your sqaud.

I suppose you make a good argument re: transfer values. i.e. they are merely a starting point to negotiations and by no means a definitive selling price. But as for player wages, I think that should be considered as something to hide in future FM's. There's just no (legal) way I know of that clubs could gain access to that information.

IRL Transfers are largely done by the board! And most times the First team manager wouldn't know there wages, there was a program on BBC 1 with Sir Alan Sugar that goes into as much financial detail as they was allowed to get in (with the team not knowing it would be broadcast on TV) and Harry Redknapp was on, and he said that he didn't have a clue what players was on what, all he knew was the length!

Great post and something I agree with

There is no way you should be able to click onto another team and know what wages the players are on

This is a good point. Could easily defend it being a hidden attribute until you have scouted him, and the scout has given some estimate on what wage range he would demand. This could then show in the contract area of the players profile.

Yes this is something I've often thought about, but not sure how easy it would be to implement in the game without making the following change:

Make "Squad status" a much more meaningful part of the game

If the above was amended we could do away with clicking on other players to see their contract status and instead, as part of a scout report for unknown players and a bog standard view for higher rep players, we could simply see some information as to their worth (non-monetary) value to the team, squad, or club as a whole. Perhaps with a little blurb something along the lines of..

Gary Cahill is a fine player who is considered a Key Player for Bolton. Bolton are likely to have this player on a high wage band for the club, such is his importance to the Bolton First Team. Bolton are a club of moderate financial means

From the above we could perhaps presume that his wages would be around the 40k mark (just a guess) as we know he should be a high earner for Bolton, but we also know they have to live within their means. Where as Rooney for example:

Wayne Rooney is a World Class player who is considered a Key Player for Man Utd. Man Utd are likely to have this player on the highest possible wage band for the club, such is his importance to the Man Utd First Team. Man Utd are a cash-rich club with an abudence of spending power to rival the richest clubs.

We could infer from that that Rooney is on a fair whack of cash comparable to that of the world's richest players....

The only issue I think might cause problems the further into the game you go is trying to guage the state, financially, of leagues, nations and clubs as the club reputations peak and trough, and change throughout the years.

I certainly would like to have to try an awful lot harder to sign players rather than give them the same contract they are on currently, and bung the agent a huge wad of cash

There are surveys and information about the salaries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4898392.stm

There are surveys and information about the salaries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/4898392.stm

Nice one so that just strengthens the OP's idea and also lends a bit of credibility to the changes I was mentioning. If the general league wages can be split into age based and positional....then simply add in reputation of the club and the standing of said player within the club and you've got a "starting" calculation to go by in order to make an initial offer.

A further idea would be to have agents state during conversations that "X player is considered under paid based on the market rate" - which would then give you an indication that whilst his standing at a club and wage had been "guessed" at £50K, he's actually earning £35K for instance.

The other part to this is it could add another added dimension into the game in terms of dealing with agents based on their personality. For instance if you got an Agent who was considered to be renowned for getting average players good deals you would have to make an educated call, based on questions? whether or not Player X was indeed undervalued by the club, or perhaps he isn't considered to be that highly thought of at his current club after all?

I think this could be a VERY interesting area of the game to develop.

That was just one link. I found others that give specifics about individual player and managerial wages.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/picturegalleries/5984133/Top-10-Premier-League-wage-earners-in-pictures.html

http://www.trophy4toon.co.uk/salaries.html

The info is available.

OK but there is no official source, or unofficial source stating how this information was gathered though.

I'm not doubting it's out there though...I'm sure it is. However if the data is garnered from professionals inside the game, the above ideas are still all relevant.

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/industries/sportsbusinessgroup/index.htm

It only takes a bit of digging around. I can find out a lot by just sitting here. I'm sure a team of professionals within the game can find out a lot more.

You can buy the info

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/industries/sportsbusinessgroup/sports/football/annual-review-of-football-finance-2011/index.htm

OK, but that's not individual player's contracts...that's revenue and turnover of clubs extrapolated out into a league format etc.

Again, I reiterate, this sort of information makes it all the more sensible to have "an idea" of the wages expected by player X thanks to scouting and agents, and knowledge known relating to reputation etc, but not to know an amount.

What difference does it make? You're going to find out in the game one way or another. It will just add extra things to do in the game.

For example, I can bid for Paulo Henrique, he's valued at something like €15m by Santos. I open up negotiations and say "How much would you sell him for?" and the answer is "He's not for sale".

So then I move on and bid the €15m in his asking price. It's rejected. I bid €20m. It's rejected. I bid €25m - then Santos want to negotiate, and say €47m. And I go, eh €26m. Accepted.

The value thrown up by the game is nowhere near their sale value.

And when you Scout a player it does come up with the X amount a player will cost and their expected wages.

So I don't see any reason to mask the Transfer prices of players, as it doesn't show the Sale Value of the players. It merely gives you a starting point.

Bar when players are transfer listed, you'd expect their value to be present anyway, along with any wage expectations. Plus you can bid a bit under their transfer value and still be accepted.

So I don't really see any point to this at all.

Then, in my opinion, you are missing a trick.

Transfer fees are slightly (but debatable I suppose) different in that it's an opening gambit for clubs to start negotiations. Wages, as somebody else on this thread mentioned, are normally negotiated by a given Directory or CFO-type figure in line with the wage structure in the club.

It's the same as recruitment...I never tell people who invite me to interviews my current salary, I tell them my expectations. If they manage to hit under my expectation, but high enough over my current salary to keep me interested, then great.

I just think some masking at the very least of player's wages should be available as currently it's a bit of a joke and too easy to make that marquee signing between similar reputation clubs.

How in the world does it make ANY difference if you know the players wages before bidding for them? IT's not something I have ever looked at.

I bid for a player, starting at the recommended price, and work up. Or if they are transfer listed I bid a bit under.

Wages very rarely make any difference whether you can see them or not.

The more I think about this the more ridiculous it is.

How in the world does it make ANY difference if you know the players wages before bidding for them? IT's not something I have ever looked at.

I bid for a player, starting at the recommended price, and work up. Or if they are transfer listed I bid a bit under.

Wages very rarely make any difference whether you can see them or not.

The more I think about this the more ridiculous it is.

OK, just hold on one second. Ignoring the fact the above post didn't make a lot of sense...the point was this summarised very well by post 5.

There is no way you should be able to click onto another team and know what wages the players are on

That's the point we're making here. I simply offered a few nuggets that might be included in order to flesh the idea out.

What part didn't make a lot of sense???

Why shouldn't you be able to see the wages? What difference does it make if you can or not? How does that affect game play? Perhaps when playing a network game then the wages could be masked or something?

But again, I don't see any point to it. It doesn't matter what wages they're on. You bid for a player, you enter negotiations, you can either pay their wages or not.

How about a compromise.

You have your contract masking thingy. And I want an option to have this on or off.

Frankly, I think it's a waste of time. Makes no difference if know a players wages or not.

Im pretty sure irl if i wanted to sign a player i would contact his agent who would tell me his current situation, i can kinda see why it would be hidden (eg it make u pay a player on merit rather than current salary) but tbh if u dont offer enough he refuses and if u offer to much he will auto sign (message - offer is very acceptable, swift fashion etc) so im not sure how it would really effect the game, i tend to find players demands are based on your budget rather than current terms anyway (tho if they are on low wage they accept lower than if they were on wage equal to ability)

OK Eugene, I get it makes no difference to you.

However for me, I'd love to have to work a little to find out a) how much he'd want to come, b) what's his current situation c) based on club rep, what's the possibility of signing etc..

All the bits I mentioned above.

Wiggz you have all that already in the game. Masking the contract doesn't change a thing.

A) You find that out at contract negotiations - he'll give you his demands. I always reset this to their current structure.

The agent will tell you if the player is willing to sign, if he's not that interested, or if a really large contract is needed to secure their signature.

B) His current situation is that he'll sign for you if you give him enough wages. But first you have to agree a fee with the club.

If you approach a player or agent before reaching out to the club, this is called tapping up the player, and is not allowed in football.

The only way you'll know what contract the player wants is to firstly secure a transfer price with their club, and at negotiations they will give their demands.

C) Based on club rep? Wrap my head around this for a second - can't have no idea what you mean.

How often do you look at the players wages before you approach to sign them?

My guess is that you wouldn't be recommended these players if your scouts didn't think they would come to the club.

I still have no idea why having to do a dance around the club/agents/players etc. to find out a wage would be preferable in the game?

If that's what you want to do then don't look at the contract screen. Problem solved.

Wiggz you have all that already in the game. Masking the contract doesn't change a thing.

A) You find that out at contract negotiations - he'll give you his demands. I always reset this to their current structure.

The agent will tell you if the player is willing to sign, if he's not that interested, or if a really large contract is needed to secure their signature.

B) His current situation is that he'll sign for you if you give him enough wages. But first you have to agree a fee with the club.

If you approach a player or agent before reaching out to the club, this is called tapping up the player, and is not allowed in football.

The only way you'll know what contract the player wants is to firstly secure a transfer price with their club, and at negotiations they will give their demands.

C) Based on club rep? Wrap my head around this for a second - can't have no idea what you mean.

How often do you look at the players wages before you approach to sign them?

My guess is that you wouldn't be recommended these players if your scouts didn't think they would come to the club.

I still have no idea why having to do a dance around the club/agents/players etc. to find out a wage would be preferable in the game?

If that's what you want to do then don't look at the contract screen. Problem solved.

OK that's one possible solution I suppose.

The fact is that I'd like to see a lot more interaction between managers, agents and players. The ability to determine such things rather than "be told" would be great. Again only in my opinion. I'm well aware that this isn't your cup of tea .

The only thing I really notice about signing players is that you don't have the opportunity to ask your assistant to go meet the player or you go. I often see in signings on the news that a player will say "It made a big difference the manager being there and that's one of the reasons I signed for that club instead of the other".

And I noticed before that managers will say "The agent was asking for too much, how much it was I don't know I'm not involved in those proceedings"

I think Ferguson had that with someone saying that agents stick their nose in way too much and asking for a fee for scoring a goal was ridiculous. In Ferguson's opinion he signs a striker to play in the team and his job is to score goals, so to give them a bonus per goal doesn't make any sense.

In regards to masking contract attributes. Don't see the point. Yeh you probably wouldn't know them in the real world. But I can't see how it makes a difference in the game.

I tried to sign David Silva for Leeds and we just got promoted to the prem. But he wants 200,000 a week, and I only have the budget for 40,000.

But I knew before I made the audacious attempt his wages would be out of my reach.

It is very uncommon for the bonafied details of contracts to become public knowledge, remeber this controversy? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article2781990.ece The only way knowing the wages before bidding helps is if you limit yourself to players who are payed less than a certain amount because you know you havent a hope. Does it mean tho that a club must share the details of a players contract with the football community if they make him available for loan?

Surely in real life the agent would reveal the players current wage during negotiations anyway.

Only if it was optional, as I wouldn't want it in the game. To me it's just another feature that would make the game fiddly and frustrating.

As Acidburn says, you might not know a players wages before you bid for him, but soon as you sit down at the negotiation table the agent would just say "He currently gets X basic wage, X appearance fee, X bonus if he's going to sign for you we want Y basic wage, Y appearance fee and Y bonus"

They still need to tweak it rather so that players will sign for other clubs on less money in some circumstances, or even the same money as they're currently on rather than often demanding pay increases.

I'm not sure I care if wages are kept quiet or not, but minimum release clauses probably should be; from what I understand, Blackburn were none too pleased that Manchester United found out about Phil Jones' clause, for example. It'd make bidding for players a lot trickier if you didn't know they have a clause you can spring.

Plus, good relationships with agents could perhaps give you some of that information. If you want player X and he's represented by agent Y, who ALSO represents player Z on your squad, maybe he'll pass along some information (or sabotage the deal, if he doesn't like you).

nope i dont think they should be...at all?

I think contracts for players not under your management should be hidden. Why would we be able to see them?

Ive often pulled out of a bid on a player after seeing he is on £x per week.

If I didnt know his wage then I migh have placed a bid.

I certainly think a wage should only come up once youve entered a negotiation with a player/agent