Welbeck in FM12

Anyone know what is the abilities and potential for Welbeck in FM12, will the attributes redistribute

No, except maybe the Man Utd researcher, yes his attributes will probably change

Attributes are reviewed on an ongoing basis but will be decided by the Man Utd researcher, based on SI's guidelines. You will find out when the Demo is released.

Decent potential. Still haven't seen enough of him yet. Had a good start to the season.

28 Apps for Man U and 7 Goals. Apps total is 64 and goals 15 total.

In 26 games for Sunderland he scored 6 goals.

He has potential. And is looking good. But going on his track record, he's not there yet.

This isn't intended to start a fight or anything. But if I was to hazard a guess and use the FMRTE values for his current and potential

I'd guess at

CA - 120ish

PA - 165ish

Decent 2nd striker

I say 120 for CA - because look at his goals, he's hardly been prolific. But he is showing potential.

He is not showing the same potential Rooney, Michael Owen, et al half a dozen England striker.

So I wouldn't put him as having the potential to be world class.

High work rate, good pace, good finishing, team work high.

He's like a young Darren Bent really.

I still to this day can't figure out why Darren Bent isn't playing for one of the top 4. The chap is scoring goals before he's even out of bed. 165 goals in 380 odd appearances, scores practically every 2nd game!

Anyway - that's my thoughts on young Wellbeck.

Decent potential. Still haven't seen enough of him yet. Had a good start to the season.

28 Apps for Man U and 7 Goals. Apps total is 64 and goals 15 total.

In 26 games for Sunderland he scored 6 goals.

He has potential. And is looking good. But going on his track record, he's not there yet.

This isn't intended to start a fight or anything. But if I was to hazard a guess and use the FMRTE values for his current and potential

I'd guess at

CA - 120ish

PA - 165ish

Decent 2nd striker

I say 120 for CA - because look at his goals, he's hardly been prolific. But he is showing potential.

He is not showing the same potential Rooney, Michael Owen, et al half a dozen England striker.

So I wouldn't put him as having the potential to be world class.

High work rate, good pace, good finishing, team work high.

He's like a young Darren Bent really.

I still to this day can't figure out why Darren Bent isn't playing for one of the top 4. The chap is scoring goals before he's even out of bed. 165 goals in 380 odd appearances, scores practically every 2nd game!

Anyway - that's my thoughts on young Wellbeck.

Great description and analysis.

Let down by spelling his name incorrectly.

Tut tut...

Eugene....good post.

I'd perhaps give him slightly less or slightly more PA based on the answer to the following question. Is CA/PA based on the players ability in the inherent traits called upon by the players' preferred position? (i.e. Striker should need composure, finishing etc). If so I'd give him less PA as I don't think he'll reach the heights required to be a "poacher". However if not...and other attributes such as passing, and creativity come into the frame, I'd give him slightly more PA due to my belief that he has the ability to become a very good link man as well as a threat beyond the defenders.

I still to this day can't figure out why Darren Bent isn't playing for one of the top 4. The chap is scoring goals before he's even out of bed. 165 goals in 380 odd appearances, scores practically every 2nd game!

His Link up plays poor and his finishing less then clinical he just keeps getting into goal scoring positions. His also mentally strong. In a team batting relegation, keeps on scoring. In and out of the team, keeps on scoring. Openly criticized by the manager, keeps on scoring.

165 would be fair for wellbeck. Can't see him getting any better than that. I like Bent a lot but he is one of those strikers that thrives on scoring all the goals for a poor team.

Wellbeck seems to have a bit more teamwork about his game maybe more of a dwight yorke type.

Eugene....good post.

I'd perhaps give him slightly less or slightly more PA based on the answer to the following question. Is CA/PA based on the players ability in the inherent traits called upon by the players' preferred position? (i.e. Striker should need composure, finishing etc). If so I'd give him less PA as I don't think he'll reach the heights required to be a "poacher". However if not...and other attributes such as passing, and creativity come into the frame, I'd give him slightly more PA due to my belief that he has the ability to become a very good link man as well as a threat beyond the defenders.

CA/PA is weighted per attribute depending on their ability to play a position.

eg Finishing is a highly weighted attribute for a ST as its a key skill, less weighted for wingers/MCs but its just about a free attribute for DCs/GKs.

quite alot of those appearances will have been a few minutes off the bench. Hes also suffered from quite a few injuries recently. Getting a run in the sunderland team and just starting to hit form he gets injured a couple of times, and as soon as he starts to get a run in the man u team gets injured. He could end up being injury prone which may hamper developement, or maybe it was bad luck. He also got quite a bad injury at preston I think.

He has been pretty clinical when fully fit.

Yeh he'll definitely be a type of player that scores about 20 goals a season.

Hard to say though. You never know, but by end of the season he could be better, he could be worse. Just too young to put a high potential on just yet.

He already scored 20 goals for me at Sunderland as an inside forward. I think he needs an increase all round and should not have a fixed PA not sure what his PA is on FM11 but he never seems to improve. For me he should be a -9 with a CA of 130-140. His starting attributes need improving quite a bit especially if he comes back from injury and continues playing as well as he started.

I dunno, he's only started 2 games. Yeh he played well. But I'll keep my opinion reserved until I see more of him, especially against top opposition and in the Champs League.

He deserves better attributes based on his performances for Sunderland last season alone.

I know it's all very exciting, another prospect getting play time at a european top club.

I also remember saha keeping Van Nistelrooy on the bench, never became first team regular.

I also remember that blonde striker, what a prospect, very young, Alan Smith, never became first team regular.

I really like the mexican striker, so I kinda hope wellbeck doesn't break into the first team, but in my opinion it's much more annoying if FM overrates a player, like balotelli (FM10) then when they underrate a player (like pretty much every dutch prospect that makes it into the holland squad, strootman, luuk de jong, affelay, etc, etc.).

I also think luuk de jong is much better then wellbeck, and not much older, his PA on fm11 is lower then his CA irl, lol, I suppose it's hard to get the players in the smaller leagues right until they're 24 years old (that was when sneijder suddenly became world class on fm as well).

6 goals for a striker though?

As I say, his work rate, team work, pace, etc. all pretty good. Finishing could be a bit better.

Nothing against the lad. I think he's quite good. And I think he will be good.

Reckon though Rooney and Hernandez will rule the roost for a while so fear for Welbecks chances.

I also remember that blonde striker, what a prospect, very young, Alan Smith, never became first team regular.

He broke his leg tbf.

he can't be too good but i agree with eugene. out of intrest, is there a hereford united researcher?

There is:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/230086

He broke his leg tbf.

I know, these things can happen, I'm not blaming them for not making it into the man u first team, he still had a decent career.

Wellbeck could break his leg, he could get addicted to booze, he could get the balotelli-syndrome, he could be involved in a car accident, etc, etc.

The real good PA should be reserved for the people who are VERY unlikely to fail, like 16 yr old messi, or 17 yr old aguero, who were showing their class with regular first team football already.

I know it's all very exciting, another prospect getting play time at a european top club.

I also remember saha keeping Van Nistelrooy on the bench, never became first team regular.

I also remember that blonde striker, what a prospect, very young, Alan Smith, never became first team regular.

I really like the mexican striker, so I kinda hope wellbeck doesn't break into the first team, but in my opinion it's much more annoying if FM overrates a player, like balotelli (FM10) then when they underrate a player (like pretty much every dutch prospect that makes it into the holland squad, strootman, luuk de jong, affelay, etc, etc.).

I also think luuk de jong is much better then wellbeck, and not much older, his PA on fm11 is lower then his CA irl, lol, I suppose it's hard to get the players in the smaller leagues right until they're 24 years old (that was when sneijder suddenly became world class on fm as well).

Smaller leagues in theory should be rated just as well, I think the researchers for at least some Dutch clubs go to most if not all games. Saha was excellent but injury prone something which might happen to Welbeck and Alan Smith was never a great striker at Leeds 38 goals in 172 games plus he was not very young he was 24 when he joined Man United I think.

6 goals for a striker though?

As I say, his work rate, team work, pace, etc. all pretty good. Finishing could be a bit better.

Nothing against the lad. I think he's quite good. And I think he will be good.

Reckon though Rooney and Hernandez will rule the roost for a while so fear for Welbecks chances.

Welbeck played out wide more than he did up front for Sunderland, did you see him play for us?

I guess this is why it is so hard to please everyone with CA's, PA's and starting attributes there will always be different opinions.

I agree with helemaalnicks.

There are some players that were just like "WOW" at that age. And I don't get the wow-factor from Wellbeck. I get the Darren Bent/Dwight Yorke feeling.

When Rooney hit the pitch at Goodison Park we all applauded, fan of Everton or not. He was magical at 16.

Welbeck played out wide more than he did up front for Sunderland, did you see him play for us?

I guess this is why it is so hard to please everyone with CA's, PA's and starting attributes there will always be different opinions.

I saw him play. He was a good player. Honestly not having a go.

I think when you get into PA of 170 and above, you're talking about players that can win games on their own. I reservedly said 165 but agonised about putting in 170.

So it is hard to tell. And it's just my opinion.

Definitely could not have his PA at 175, I find it hard to even go as high as 170.

I guess I haven't seen the best of him yet, and I hope I am proved wrong. It's just my guess though.

I saw him play. He was a good player. Honestly not having a go.

I think when you get into PA of 170 and above, you're talking about players that can win games on their own. I reservedly said 165 but agonised about putting in 170.

So it is hard to tell. And it's just my opinion.

Definitely could not have his PA at 175, I find it hard to even go as high as 170.

I guess I haven't seen the best of him yet, and I hope I am proved wrong. It's just my guess though.

I didn't mean to sound abrupt, I was just curious to see if you saw him play as some people base their opinions on newspaper reports without actually seeing the player play. I think he should be a -9 or a set 165 PA would be fine. It's mainly his starting attributes I have problems with there are Championship players with better attributes.

Are you a Man United fan?

Nope I'm a Leeds fan.

*ok you can stop laughing now*

I'm a football fan. I watch every game I possibly can. Even geared up with a few beers to watch the Brazil league last night, and Santos v Botafogo was postponed, curses! Another night for that so.

A lot of the times the teams at the lower end of the table playing each other are the most entertaining matches.

Nope I'm a Leeds fan.

*ok you can stop laughing now*

I'm a football fan. I watch every game I possibly can. Even geared up with a few beers to watch the Brazil league last night, and Santos v Botafogo was postponed, curses! Another night for that so.

A lot of the times the teams at the lower end of the table playing each other are the most entertaining matches.

My missus is a Leeds fans so I cannot laugh too much. I still give her stick about an FA Cup final from 1973 with me being a Sunderland fan.

I think there is an old FM with a 16 year old Messi with a -9 PA, pretty wrong. Then again there are more examples of people being rated high and turning out average or rubbish.

There is:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/230086

damn! timma got there before me

Yeh there's only so much you can do. I think they have Welbeck right. And I hope I don't play Man Utd in FM12 and Welbeck slaughters me and has a price tag of €40m or something.

Smaller leagues in theory should be rated just as well, I think the researchers for at least some Dutch clubs go to most if not all games.

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. I never manage dutch teams in fm-games, because it's frustrating to deal with all the mistakes. If they were small 'mistakes', like one player being slightly over/underrated, I've no problem with that, that happens in all leagues and will happen in fm12, 13, 14, etc. cause that's just football, hard to make exact predictions.

However, when I noticed Ruiz was left winger on fm10, then was a left winger again on fm11, I knew fm scouts weren't watching. Twente was league champions in 2010, with Ruiz playing about 40 games as a right winger, a few games as AMC (to replace perez) and 0 games as a left winger. Yet in FM, he is a left winger (well known by fm11-ers probably, cause he's quite easy to get).

Van der Wiel, another obvious example. On fm10, he was rather average, despite the fact that he became a starter in 2008 (i think he was ~140-150). Then suddenly we get world cup 2010 and boom, one of the most popular DR purchases of 2011. If the dutch league was properly scouted he would've had PA9, it was clearly a very talented player, but he only got good @ fm11, when he had played a world cup final.

I also think many big clubs (and by big I mean, chelsea, man utd., arsenal, etc.) made a mistake this summer, by not signing assaidi. Every dutch journalist can tell you this guy had more talent then nani when he came to manchester, he should be one of the best prospects in the game, his technical ability is off the charts. I checked, and he's not, he's just another dutch league winger (who for some reason are all very similar).

It's quite obvious it's not being scouted well.

People have already brought these points up here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/229874-Holland-(Official)-Data-Issues

That's the place for stuff like that

People have already brought these points up here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/229874-Holland-(Official)-Data-Issues

That's the place for stuff like that

Yeah, I know, but it wouldn't help. I just wanted the mod to know he shouldn't say things like that if he doesn't check the facts first. My post can also put the wellbeck-issue in perspective. I mean, the vdWiel error is so obvious (even for non-dutch fm-ers) that complaining about premier league data issues is kinda overstating it.

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. I never manage dutch teams in fm-games, because it's frustrating to deal with all the mistakes. If they were small 'mistakes', like one player being slightly over/underrated, I've no problem with that, that happens in all leagues and will happen in fm12, 13, 14, etc. cause that's just football, hard to make exact predictions.

However, when I noticed Ruiz was left winger on fm10, then was a left winger again on fm11, I knew fm scouts weren't watching. Twente was league champions in 2010, with Ruiz playing about 40 games as a right winger, a few games as AMC (to replace perez) and 0 games as a left winger. Yet in FM, he is a left winger (well known by fm11-ers probably, cause he's quite easy to get).

Van der Wiel, another obvious example. On fm10, he was rather average, despite the fact that he became a starter in 2008 (i think he was ~140-150). Then suddenly we get world cup 2010 and boom, one of the most popular DR purchases of 2011. If the dutch league was properly scouted he would've had PA9, it was clearly a very talented player, but he only got good @ fm11, when he had played a world cup final.

I also think many big clubs (and by big I mean, chelsea, man utd., arsenal, etc.) made a mistake this summer, by not signing assaidi. Every dutch journalist can tell you this guy had more talent then nani when he came to manchester, he should be one of the best prospects in the game, his technical ability is off the charts. I checked, and he's not, he's just another dutch league winger (who for some reason are all very similar).

It's quite obvious it's not being scouted well.

If you feel that strongly about it then have you posted in the data forums? I have not played as a Dutch team on FM11 and do not watch Dutch football so I could not tell you how realistically they have been rated.

Yeah, I know, but it wouldn't help. I just wanted the mod to know he shouldn't say things like that if he doesn't check the facts first. My post can also put the wellbeck-issue in perspective. I mean, the vdWiel error is so obvious (even for non-dutch fm-ers) that complaining about premier league data issues is kinda overstating it.

I said in theory I didn't say it was fact did I?

I said in theory I didn't say it was fact did I?

Well, you said scouts for some teams go to most/all games, which is not true. Much data doesn't even change for 2-3 versions of the game, so I doubt it's even being scouted at all.

Actually he said he thinks that's the case.

Well, you said scouts for some teams go to most/all games, which is not true. Much data doesn't even change for 2-3 versions of the game, so I doubt it's even being scouted at all.

I said I think. Also check the Dutch data thread there is something in there about his natural positions.

I said I think. Also check the Dutch data thread there is something in there about his natural positions.

Too late now, the fullham scout can deal with him now. Have fun watching him in the premier league this season, his ingame flair (18-19) says it all. I did still post in the data issue thread though. Tx for the link.

I also remember that blonde striker, what a prospect, very young, Alan Smith, never became first team regular.

He also played most games as a Midfielder for a start. Just like he did for Newcastle.

Lets get back on topic please

Lets get back on topic please

Yes, the topic of Welbecks rating for FM12 that nobody knows :confused: