Consistently missing chances.

Was just wondering what the best way of stopping this is. I have been fairly dominant in my league, WPL and have qualified for european competitions on numerous occasions now, but I still feel like my strikers are very wasteful despite being way above average players for the level they are playing at.

Are most of your chances one on ones from balls through the middle?

Yeah, a few, but it's more our inability to hit the target that frustrates me. My top striker has 41% shots on target ratio - placing him 10th in the WPL in this catergory - and below that my next best has 21% of shots on target. It takes my team at least 10 shots to score, on average, whilst most oppositions will score once every 5/6 shots on target.

Yeah, a few, but it's more our inability to hit the target that frustrates me. My top striker has 41% shots on target ratio - placing him 10th in the WPL in this catergory - and below that my next best has 21% of shots on target. It takes my team at least 10 shots to score, on average, whilst most oppositions will score once every 5/6 shots on target.

What i would suggest is perhaps your tactic is slightly exploiting the ME, not saying you have set it up intentionally that way at all. Although you can create a lot of these chances they are not always good chances and unless you strikers are on top form your team can run into problems. Try getting the ball wider if possible, try to create chances from more than just through balls through the middle.

I see this a lot from one-on-ones and also from build up through the middle (not through balls) with my player taking a shot finally but missing by an absolute mile (wide or high) when at edge of the box or inside it slightly. Finishing and Composure on my worst striker is 14 and 14..... but when I bring on a replacement who's morale is higher, granted, but their composer is 13 he hits the target and finishes like a pro in one-on-ones.

Weird eh

@MBarbric I've often wondered this, as in Europe they seem to hit the back of the net much more often - I managed to get to the last 16 of the Europa League last season effectively playing on the counter and being clinical - so I guess this could be the case. Maybe the key will be to go with a few more "I expect a performance" in the league to help avoid complacency.

@milnerpoint I play an attacking formation in the first place - 4-2-2-4 - so the emphasis is on going forward for my team. I do create a lot of CCC's that are wasted, which is frustrating, but I take your point that perhaps it is that I need to create better chances for my strikers.

Anyway this season has seen a marked improvement, I added what I needed to to my team, and my leading striker now has an incredible 20 goals in 13 WPL matches!

Slower tempo and less attacking mentality may help reducing their inclination to shoot from less-than-ideal angles and range.

If your striker(s) hasn't scored in four or more games, try reducing pressure on him. I have found that in many cases they are on the way to goal-drought territory already then, even before morale drops and the media notices...

I have had the same problems previously, not for really extended periods of time however. I play Adelaide United - lowly team I know, however I have got the club up to 67th in the richest list over 9 or 10 seasons including winning the club world championship 4 times. Here are some tips - a bit long I know but it's a complicated game! I don't really understand how the coaching works fully, but make sure you've got the right coach for the right job, recruit if necessary. The thing the coach attributes don't show is coaching mentality - you could have some conflicts there. Another thing that often gets overlooked is man management (I use Assistant Man with high man management because my squad discipline is not super). Also I like to give my players preferred moves. My favourites are to have at least one striker/winger who shoots with power. One striker who places his shots. The fast strikers are encouraged to beat the offside trap and all strikers encouraged to move into channels. I have a strong preference for technique amongst my players, so check that your strikers have good enough technique and composure. The creative freedom scale helps as well. To create chances I play with either a wide or central playmaker, but usually wide. When you go through a player with high flair (set creative freedom accordingly) as a wide playmaker they create lots a goals. At least one central midfielder should be trained up to run through the middle and try killer balls as this generates good scoring opportunities as well (switch to a central playmeker mid game if you have to sub your wide player or things aren't working). One of the most critical overall positions is fullback, a good fullback who can dribble and cross will allow your team to control games more easily (set as second choice playmaker).

When it comes to player morale or whatever I am very hard on my strikers. When I get a new striker I ride them hard, and train them up. Always make sure they are playing near full fitness as this is really important and try not to sub a targetman type striker too much, but feel free to sub the fast srtiker after 60 or 75 minutes if you need a goal or their job is done and you want to blood youth. A subbed striker will generally require 15 minutes or more to have an effect. There are motivating techniques like expecting performance - you will quickly work out if this has a positive or negaive effect on an individual. The other good ones (and perhaps best) are at half time. Sometimes if your strikers performance is a little down for the day you can ask them to 'prove a point' or in a drawn situation you can tell them they 'can make the difference tonight'. One other thing about strikers is that they are normally only worth having for a few seasons no matter how good they are. If you have a good team you can always find good younger ones and once a striker has been around and been successful they either want big dollars or a bigger club ( a shrewd operator signs a 19/20 yo for a 4-5 year deal and sells after 3-4). I have three strikers in my main squad(one targetman and one speedster) and one in my junior team(targetman) I also have a fourth striker - under 21 Holland rep 19 yo and thinks he should be in the first team - gone!

This season my targetman scored 25 gls (one penalty from one taken) in 34(1) @ 45.5% (46/101) on target aand and my 1st choice speedster 25 gls (zero penalties) in 37 @ 59.5% (44/74) on target. 2nd choice speedster has 7 gls (zero penalties) in 4(21) apps @ 52.6% (10/19) on target.

a) 1 v 1's are stuffed in 11.3- if the ME doesn't like your tactic you'll get them and mess up a big percentage of them, regardless of striker quality.

b) it is ridiculous that in 11.3 people are giving advice like "Try getting the ball wider if possible, try to create chances from more than just through balls through the middle." A 1v1 should be a 1v1 irrespective of whether you play a 352 or a glitchy 42121

c) I've always believed the AI needs a clear path for you to score by. If you had 11 players with 13-14 for everything and mixed for everything it wouldn't work as well as having a setting the AI can understand- IE. crosses to a big player, through passes to a fast player (even if their quality is less)

hoping for an improved 12.1

P

I'd pick players with higher balance over finishing every time.

10 finishing, 20 balance is way better than 20 finishing, 10 balance imo.

The ME doesnt like or dislike your tactics, it doesnt have the ability to do either, what is being described is a weakness in the ME where it can be susceptible to countless through balls through the middle that look like good chances but in reality they are not, which in turn leads to people thinking they are creating lots of great chances and their strikers are the problem, again they are not. The problem is people see all of these chances being created and decide its working and throw everything through the middle of the park and it goes in a big cirlce, create rubbish one on one chances, striker misses, thread on here complaining, people help explain, someone comes on and rubbishes the help blaming the game, and we go round and round.

so a 1v1 through the middle of the pitch is not a good chance in football?

sometimes you play against a gun GK and just will not score from a 1on1, but you know what - it's a game!

it all depends on the player and the situation, its not as cut and dry as you make out, a 1 on 1 when a player is on his weak foot with a defender breathing down his neck when he has a low composure and ability to handle pressure attribute is not a good chance, he will miss 9 times out of 10, a player on his strong foot clear on goal with no one around him and plenty of time is a good chance. Thats before taking confidence into the equation. Tactics like described depend purely on the forward 3/4 players being in top form all the time, if 1 of these players starts playing poorly the whole tactic falls apart and it seems like the strikers are missing easy chances. If your missing the same kinds of chances over and over does it make more sense to try and change something or just sit back and demand SI "sort it out"?

You also have to take into account the 3D ME has a limited number of animations, not every single real life situation can be simulated, you will end up seeing the same kinds of chances quite a few times over the course of a season. That doesn't mean every chance created was exactly the same its just being portrayed as such by the available animations in the game.

You can disagree all you want really but if you read the tactics forum you will see what i am talking about, this is a common problem people come across, the easiest tactic to set up in FM is one where you player tons of through balls to a quick striker and if you have a hero striker on top form the it will work quite well, any drop in moral or form and its useless.

a 1 on 1 when a player is on his weak foot with a defender breathing down his neck when he has a low composure and ability to handle pressure attribute is not a good chance, he will miss 9 times out of 10,

well if the guy is a bad player yeah, but i'm talking about quality players missing too many 1v1's. A 1v1 is a 1v1 and under no circumstances will 9/10 miss. You then go on to say the ME has limited highlight options.. which is probable. My point is it needs work.

I bring it up because we're playing a multiplayer at the moment and a guy with torres and ibra up front is getting loads of 1v1's every game and not scoring much.

The ME is and always will be the thing that needs the most work, this is just one of many examples

Of course it needs work, but so do the human players, its very easy to fall into the trap of thinking you have a killer tactic when you really dont.

I can happily say my strikers of far less quality than Ibra or Torres dont miss tons of chances, i dont create tons of 1v1's so when my team does create them we put them away easily, there is not a huge amount of pressure on my strikers as the rest of my team chips in with plenty of goals as well. I would suggest that "guy" has a tactic relying solely on those two strikers scoring, which in turn has put a heap of pressure on them, and after a few games of them not putting away these chances moral and confidence has dropped and as such the effectiveness of the tactic has dropped.

Again i ask, what makes more sense, trying to fix the issue or just bleating about it?

well.. that's the weird logic isn't it.

You're essentially saying that creating too many 1v1's through the middle is the sign of a bad tactic. What logic is left to play by if that's your beginning point? :S

A good tactic is not one that creates tons of chances, its one that wins a game.

What i am saying is the tactic is exploiting an ME weakness, stop exploiting it and results will improve. I'm not saying you or anyone else has done this on purpose but it definitely sounds like the issue your having.

It only takes one chance to win a game, you can find countless examples of teams creating lots of chances without winning, the number of chances its not what is important, its the quality of the chances created.

It only takes one chance to win a game, you can find countless examples of teams creating lots of chances without winning, the number of chances its not what is important, its the quality of the chances created.

And when the 3D consistently shows what appear to be quality chances created, that creates a problem, especially for the millions who don't forum and thus don't read the tactics sub-forum,

And when the 3D consistently shows what appear to be quality chances created, that creates a problem, especially for the millions who don't forum and thus don't read the tactics sub-forum,

Well that depends on what the user deems to be a quality chance.

If the user thinks a ball played through the middle with the keeper coming off his line and a defender putting the striker under pressure is a quality chance then the problem is with the user.

My strikers missing numerous chances has happened with basically every version of FM I've ever played... just used to it now!

Well that depends on what the user deems to be a quality chance.

If the user thinks a ball played through the middle with the keeper coming off his line and a defender putting the striker under pressure is a quality chance then the problem is with the user.

exactly, and then the problem of people thinking they are constantly missing very good chances happens, in reality they may have missed 1 or 2 good chances, the rest have been rushed efforts because of pressure and positioning.

A good tactic is not one that creates tons of chances, its one that wins a game.

God. If that is how you see FM then the game can go in the bin.

The way I see it is that if you like to create your own tactic, ending up with an "exploitation tactic" is inevitable.

When I make a tactic I tweak and tune it until I create many chances and the opposition does not create anything substantial against me. In FM11 crossing into the box seems to be very inefficient, long shots are as always inefficient, and it is difficult to score against a deep-lying defense waiting for you with all their men behind the ball. The biggest chances you get are those that comes on the counter, but playing a counter-attacking tactic in FM seems to mean "play as slowly and as high possession as you can muster and for God's sake don't look for forward runs... instead roll the ball aimlessly to each other in the defense and include the keeper whenever you win the ball in a lucrative position!" So I tweak the tactic to actually counter quickly when we do get hold of the ball, "counter-attack" unticked, something that results in a lot of through balls and quite a few 1-on-1s. In addition I tweak my tactics to dominate possession.

The point is that all of this tweaking is based on visual feedback, where things I like stays and things I dislike goes. Since creating a lot of chances (BIG chances) is something I like, my tactics will -always- end up "exploiting holes in the ME" because 20 chances is better than 10, and 30 better than 20. Also 5 chances against is better than 10, and 100% long shots against is better than 50%.

If SI does not want us to create "exploitation tactics" they will need to remove the option of creating tactics altogether - leaving only pre-set tactics and shouts.

well i have created my own tactic that i dont think overly exploits anything, it is possible if you use logical thinking, exploits usually come from illogical creating of tactics, which yes is prob a failing of the ME, but you cannot account for people trying to set up unreasonable systems and expecting them to follow real life situations.

I'm tired of hearing about 'tactics that exploit the ME' and 'Non-logical thinking' leading to this type of tactic. This isn't directed at a particular poster but everyone who has expressed these or similar statements. How do you know this? What do you actually mean by, 'exploiting the match engine' or 'taking advantage of holes in the match engine'? They seem to be a very gullible breed these Match Engines, and pretty raggedy too, with all those holes.

How can you possibly know, that the reason someone's team fails to score from a load of chances is because their 'exploit' tactic has failed? Or, after a year and a half of their forwards banging in the goals, a team suddenly can't buy one, it's because the tactic relied heavily on the strikers scoring and is exploiting weaknesses in the ME! Or tactics that create many chances through the middle = illogical thinking whilst editing the tactic resulting in exploit!

Well excuse me all over the place, strikers are generally expected to score the goals and those goals can only be scored in the middle.

Why does it always have to be 'exploit', you might just as well substitute 'cheat' on here.

Why 'illogical', do you suspect there is a horde of scatterbrained jobberknowls fumbling over FM?

Why not a 'bad' tactic, or 'flawed', or 'no longer able to cope with the tactical knowhow of the teams you are now meeting', or e.t.c.

Explain yourselves dammit!

Exploiting the ME means there is a defensive weakness in the AI when it comes to handling through balls through the middle, it is known because the people who help develop the ME and TC have said so, it is something they have been working on trying to stop for a while, it was worse in FM10 than it is now.

All i am doing above is speculating, what is being described can be accounted for by the ME weaknesses. There are various posts made by wwfan when he explains your question about the strikers on form bit, basically these kinds of tactics rely solely on the strikers being in top form, the through balls will constantly come, no matter how good or poorly your team is doing, what counts is the moral of the strikers. If moral is poor then the tactic will not work as the strikers are under constant pressure to deliver and are already struggling. Which leads people to think that moral is the only important factor in the game.

Exploiting the ME means there is a defensive weakness in the AI when it comes to handling through balls through the middle, it is known because the people who help develop the ME and TC have said so, it is something they have been working on trying to stop for a while, it was worse in FM10 than it is now.

All i am doing above is speculating, what is being described can be accounted for by the ME weaknesses. There are various posts made by wwfan when he explains your question about the strikers on form bit, basically these kinds of tactics rely solely on the strikers being in top form, the through balls will constantly come, no matter how good or poorly your team is doing, what counts is the moral of the strikers. If moral is poor then the tactic will not work as the strikers are under constant pressure to deliver and are already struggling. Which leads people to think that moral is the only important factor in the game.

I know all this, it gets repeated almost on a daily basis. Take your reply post #2, asking about one of the 'classic' symptoms of 'exploit tactics', is this because, 'it is more often than not the case if these conditions exist'. Why did you not ask how the morale of the team was?

because even with fantastic moral the strikers will still miss a lot of chances.

That's my point.

yes but they are missing because the chances are not good chances, they are rushed chances that appear to be good chances, thats the point. When in top form the striker will put away a good number of them anyway so the tactic will appear succesful, as soon as their is a drop in moral the tactic still works up to the point of the stikers, then it completely falls apart and it seems like the only factor is the strikers.

OK read through this and my tactic is one that does get many one-on-one chances through the middle First season my Villa team...Bent and Gabby scored a couple, but mostly missed, Bent more so.

Second season, only slight tweaks and Bent is still missing a few but Gabby has scored approximately 75% of his 1v1's...admittedly on the counter.

I'm not sure it's SUCH a big issue...or I'm just not seeing it as heavily as others.

yes but they are missing because the chances are not good chances, they are rushed chances that appear to be good chances, thats the point.

My point is, how do you know that?

When in top form the striker will put away a good number of them anyway so the tactic will appear succesful,

The tactic is sucessful.

as soon as their is a drop in moral the tactic still works up to the point of the stikers, then it completely falls apart and it seems like the only factor is the strikers.

Most probably but 'Strikers' does not equal 'Tactic'. Why would this automatically make it an 'exploit tactic?

My point is, how do you know that?

The tactic is sucessful.

Most probably but 'Strikers' does not equal 'Tactic'. Why would this automatically make it an 'exploit tactic?

1 - because it is a common issue, that is why i asked if the chances were mostly through balls through the middle, if he had said no then we wouldnt be where we are now with the thread

2 - any tactic that relys completely on moral and form is not a succesful tactic.

3 - a tactic should be a team effort to both attack and defend, not something that highlights a weakness in the ME.

1 - because it is a common issue, that is why i asked if the chances were mostly through balls through the middle, if he had said no then we wouldnt be where we are now with the thread

2 - any tactic that relys completely on moral and form is not a succesful tactic.

3 - a tactic should be a team effort to both attack and defend, not something that highlights a weakness in the ME.

1 Yes, it is a common issue, one which you look to associate with an 'exploit tactic', Why?

2 Says who? If players are in form, have high morale and win lots of games, whether playing attractive football or not, the tactic is successful. If they are out of form, with poor morale and losing it could be poor form, low morale or tactics, and if it is found to be the tactic then why is it deemed to be exploitative?

3 I agree, but how often do you see strikers making last-ditch tackles in their own box?

1 Yes, it is a common issue, one which you look to associate with an 'exploit tactic', Why?

2 Says who? If players are in form, have high morale and win lots of games, whether playing attractive football or not, the tactic is successful. If they are out of form, with poor morale and losing it could be poor form, low morale or tactics, and if it is found to be the tactic then why is it deemed to be exploitative?

3 I agree, but how often do you see strikers making last-ditch tackles in their own box?

1 - because it is exploiting an ME weakness, im not saying people set this up intentionally or anything like that, im not having a go at anyone, it simply makes use of a situation the AI cannot defend well.

2 - tactics are not based on moral as such, they should be far more in depth, if the only thing you are counting on is moral, then yes if you keep it high you will be ok, as soon as it drops your in trouble and if you have nothing to fall back on getting back to winning ways could prove very difficult.

3 - defending starts from the strikers and works its way back through the team, your right you wont see many last gasp tackles from your striker, but you should see some kind of defensive effort even positionally.

1 - because it is exploiting an ME weakness, im not saying people set this up intentionally or anything like that, im not having a go at anyone, it simply makes use of a situation the AI cannot defend well.

2 - tactics are not based on moral as such, they should be far more in depth, if the only thing you are counting on is moral, then yes if you keep it high you will be ok, as soon as it drops your in trouble and if you have nothing to fall back on getting back to winning ways could prove very difficult.

3 - defending starts from the strikers and works its way back through the team, your right you wont see many last gasp tackles from your striker, but you should see some kind of defensive effort even positionally.

To put it in even simpler terms:

Creating a lot of chances on through balls in the middle of the pitch (regardless of where the pass came from) = playing well

Creating lots of crosses = struggling. must change tactic

Creating lots of long shots = struggling, must change tactic

So how are we going to NOT exploit the ME then?

That's not what i said at all.

Creating lots of similar chances which your team misses time and time again means you should maybe have a look at things unless your happy with how things are going. Like the post above, he is quite happy knowing from time to time the tactic will fall down, there is no issue with that, as long as you can understand whats going on and accept the situation. I have done the same myself in previous FM's.

1 - because it is exploiting an ME weakness, im not saying people set this up intentionally or anything like that, im not having a go at anyone, it simply makes use of a situation the AI cannot defend well.

2 - tactics are not based on moral as such, they should be far more in depth, if the only thing you are counting on is moral, then yes if you keep it high you will be ok, as soon as it drops your in trouble and if you have nothing to fall back on getting back to winning ways could prove very difficult.

3 - defending starts from the strikers and works its way back through the team, your right you wont see many last gasp tackles from your striker, but you should see some kind of defensive effort even positionally.

It appears that what you are saying is, that something you consider to be indicative of an exploit tactic, is exploiting the ME because it is indicative of an exploit tactic!?

I have no doubt that many people have developed their own successful tactics and are happily playing their game, unfortunately some of them come on here and are dismayed when their tactic is included in the 'exploit' column, and having never thought they were 'cheating' before now, feel sullied. I think it's the terminology that bugs me a little; Sound, Logical, Successful = Non-Exploit Tactic, Failed, Illogical = Exploit (read cheat) Tactic. There is a whiff of superiority in this I feel, and given that changes in code can bring about unforseen changes in other areas, who amongst us will swear to know for certain what is and what is not 'Exploitable'?

(SI developers need not apply)

I am not trying to sound like i am having a go, or looking down or anything like that at all, all i was doing was offering a reasoning as to why his strikers that were once scoring constantly are now struggling, that is all. Anyone can play how they want, without having to feel anything, i am not here to judge at all, the OP asked for help, i offered a possibility.

I am not trying to sound like i am having a go, or looking down or anything like that at all, all i was doing was offering a reasoning as to why his strikers that were once scoring constantly are now struggling, that is all. Anyone can play how they want, without having to feel anything, i am not here to judge at all, the OP asked for help, i offered a possibility.

Just as an aside, I play a pretty conventional 4-2-4 in the league and a 4-1-4-1 in Europe. Strikers and wingers are always on attack. I haven't intentionally set up a tactic to "exploit the match engine", in-fact the difference in that my team is above the quality of the rest of Wales so should be expected to create chances. If Manchester United were to play, for instance, my team Peterborough United (which is around the standard difference of my team and the rest of the league) they would be expected to create chances. I was just wondering why, fairly consistently, my strikers have struggled to hit the target for most the time throughout the game. The problem now has gone some way to solving itself - I had the 2nd most efficient striker in the league last season - because of a few tweaks I made from the advice of this thread.

so, what were the tweaks you have made if i may ask.

I am in similar situation in Norway. I create a lot of chances, exactly from thru the middle thru balls to my strikers. But this is what I want to see from my team and as I play 3 very creative cM's (for norway standards at least) and have two tacticaly very good strikers (off ball, anticipation, decisions) I expect thru balls and I expect my strikers finding themselves a space between oppo defense. Sure sometimes they miss chances and I lose a game, but even if there is a bug with it, I always find myself winning the league comfortably.

So this bug i like to see as problem with strikers' confidence that i have to deal with and not the tactic itself. might be wrong though.

Its not that all through balls are bugs just a certain type that causes a problem.

I believe the one in question is a fairly straight ball that goes between the DCs to a ST who is also running between the DCs.

Good through balls that result in good chances much like real life are those where one or both of the ball/attacker are running at an angle.

Its not that all through balls are bugs just a certain type that causes a problem.

I believe the one in question is a fairly straight ball that goes between the DCs to a ST who is also running between the DCs.

Good through balls that result in good chances much like real life are those where one or both of the ball/attacker are running at an angle.

Yeah thats exactly right, not every through ball is in question at all.

i have seen fair amount of these goals scored by ai against me. after that i have dumped zonal marking and it looks much better. So we can say it goes both ways but i have to say these chances you have described are fairly iregular, maybe 5 goals a season i see in this fashion.

Thats the whole point - These type of chances look much better than they actual are which leads to some users being confused & frustrated. Occasionally you will get goals from them but in general you will see many more misses.

I find much more frustrating these goals that come after keeper kicks the ball out then, usually a defender or DM, heads it back over the defense and if fast striker receives it there is fair chance of cheeky goal. Again, it goes both ways but human player can counter this by instructing his keeper to short pass the ball and this reduces that kind of goals.

Yes these are annoying but again the amount of chances I see created in this way has been much reduced and the actual number of goals that come from them even less. I don't know if this is as a result of something SI did in the last patch or not. Someone suggested the other week that these type of chances are seen in FM more frequently at lower league level and there could perhaps be something in that.