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SI: what about dropping the Long Shots slider altogether?


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The first thing I do when creating a tactic is to turn Long Shots off. I don't even bother testing it to see if it is necessary, because it has been since the version it was introduced.

There are plenty of shots from distance even with the slider set to Rarely for all players. I consider the amount of hopeless long shots I get against me by the AI as proof that I have made the right decision.

There are a few situations in a game where trying to power the ball into the net from 20+ meters is the correct decision. For the most part, those situations are when A) trying to keep possession would be to risk a counter-attack (this happens on corners for instance); or B) the keeper is out of position and the shot being blocked is unlikely. In all other situations, trying to shoot from distance is the wrong decision.

Since I have seen the lurking player attempt at goal maybe once or twice in a total of likely 20 seasons in FM11.3 (he is mostly passing back to the corner taker who is in offside position), and players with the "shoots from distance" PPM is a huge liability to any team i have managed, it is clear to me that a vast majority of the time FM long shots are poor decisions and a waste of possession.

It shouldn't be like that. Long shots are an important part of football.

I think the solution is to remove the slider altogether and rather have it come down to Mentality (team/player instructions), Decisions, Flair, Technique and of course Long Shots whether the player decides to shoot or not - thus necessarily making it rare. This way, the occurence of successful long shots could be more down to skill than a statistical necessity like it is now. I mean, more often than not the players who succeed in blasting the ball into the net from 35 meters have no real prerequisites to do so. Yes I have seen Gerrard do it, but not more often than nobodies with Long Shots 7 and no PPMs. Long Shots has been a "dead" attribute for quite a while.

This way, SI could remove the obvious you-are-a-naughty-boy message which always pops up after the first official game saying "nag nag you have turned off long shots!".

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Even though it's not directly related to your point, i'd rather the shoots from distance PPM to be removed to be honest, at least the sliders is something that you can control.

Managers cannot control some players if they like shooting from distance then they will no matter what we say. I usually turn the slider to rarely long shots but on my inside forward it seems to work if they are rare he still takes them but not as much as mixed or often, the difference between mixed and often is not much though.

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OP. I agree with you i have tinkerd between letting certain players take them to none to then changing on team and now i have the same view as you i turn them off %100 for every single player it's just a waste of time posession and shots. not to mention like you said they still even have the odd one with them turned off

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Managers cannot control some players if they like shooting from distance then they will no matter what we say. I usually turn the slider to rarely long shots but on my inside forward it seems to work if they are rare he still takes them but not as much as mixed or often, the difference between mixed and often is not much though.

The problem is that it essentially makes a large amount of players totally useless. It would be one thing if a player with the PPM took a few pot shots per game, but unless a player has Decisions and Composure at 15+, the PPM makes them blast the ball into the stands at every opportunity. Now, it's easy enough for a human manager to just offload these players, but these players basically become a cancer to AI teams, making them extremely easy to beat as they constantly surrender possession and have no patience for build-up play.

And as BiggusD alluded to, the players (AI and human) who do seem to manage long shots are usually just players with a high Determination, so the attribute doesn't actually seem to have that much of an effect on its success rate. The only exceptions are players like Gerrard and van der Vaart who are super-intelligent tactically and have 18+ long shot ratings.

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The problem is that it essentially makes a large amount of players totally useless. It would be one thing if a player with the PPM took a few pot shots per game, but unless a player has Decisions and Composure at 15+, the PPM makes them blast the ball into the stands at every opportunity. Now, it's easy enough for a human manager to just offload these players, but these players basically become a cancer to AI teams, making them extremely easy to beat as they constantly surrender possession and have no patience for build-up play.

And as BiggusD alluded to, the players (AI and human) who do seem to manage long shots are usually just players with a high Determination, so the attribute doesn't actually seem to have that much of an effect on its success rate. The only exceptions are players like Gerrard and van der Vaart who are super-intelligent tactically and have 18+ long shot ratings.

Yeah, players are more likely to shoot from any distance if they have a high attacking mentality. I think that is enough of a long shot slider. I don't think a manager would ever say to a player "try to shoot from range whenever you get the ball from 30 meters and in". He would rather tell the player to try shots when a good opportunity arises.

Furthermore, the PPM Shoots With Power is absolutely necessary if the Shoots From Distance PPM is not going to sabotage any chance you have of winning the game. Those two combined with Long Shots and high skill can at least give you a fair amount of corners. The fact is that once the player having these PPMs have exercised his compulsive behaviour a certain number of times in a match, his Av.R will start deteriorating and morale and motivation will start dropping. At that point the chance of him scoring is closing in on zero, just like a GK "having a good match" (7.5 and above) will be almost impossible to score on. Both are very likely to happen if you have one or more of these players on the pitch (Liverpool anyone?).

And SI is wondering why we turn it off first chance we get?

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And SI is wondering why we turn it off first chance we get?

"We" don't all turn it off.

Long shots are part of football and something like a third of all goals come from distance in real life on average. Any team who chooses to ignore this way of scoring limits their attacking ability and makes it easier for the opposition to defend.

That said the idea of removing the slider and just linking shots to player attributes/orders isn't a bad one in general.

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"We" don't all turn it off.

Long shots are part of football and something like a third of all goals come from distance in real life on average. Any team who chooses to ignore this way of scoring limits their attacking ability and makes it easier for the opposition to defend.

That said the idea of removing the slider and just linking shots to player attributes/orders isn't a bad one in general.

Yeah except that in FM it isn't like that. Long shots are the most shining example of things -not- working and that changes to the tactic is necessary. Don't take this as if I don't want long shots at all - I just think that they should be restricted to when the player actually has a scoring opportunity just like in real life. As it is now, a long shot where it is absolutely no doubt that the player had no chance of actually scoring (which is the vast majority of them) is a sign of desperation, not of chance creation.

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I do agree that the decision making involved in taking long shots in FM has been a little shaky.

I know that there are times in real life that player choose to take shots are the worst possible time, but this seems to happen a lot in FM.

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The worst player I've come across on FM for wasteful long shots is Nani. If he gets anywhere in the opposition's half and facing their goal, he'll have a shot. They almost never go in. I've set him to "rarely" but that makes little difference. I did wonder if lessening his creative freedom might help, but I don't really want to do that with a player like Nani.

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Even better, link long shots to the player and not position.

If you have one LM with a long shots of 20, you will not want his replacement with a LS of 3 taking the same amount of shots. The same it true when you have to move players around.

It makes zero sense at all to link to position rather than player.

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The thing is there are TOO MANY attributes and factors linked to every single action in the ME I sometimes get the feeling all the tinkering with sliders isn't having the effect it could/should...

I see even in real life a stubborn/selfish/tactically dumb player will just do whatever he wants regardless of his manager's instructions, but let's just pretend we're managing a full squad of seasoned professionals...

I set Mentality to Attack-Rigid, Creative Freedom to Low, Short Passes, Work ball into Box shout, but Long Shots to often (because my players are good at that)...

How is it going to translate in the ME?

Will they play a positive version of the tiki-taka football with the occasional long shot, or will they just bring the ball to the opposition half and then fire loose as if there was no tomorrow?

Or neither because some instructions cancel eachother?

So back to the OP idea, I think the Long Shots slider needs to go... players will always take long shots anyway, no matter how you set the slider, so let's get rid of at least one

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I frequently witness waste in front of goal anyway :D. I don't think removing it completely is the right thing to do, because it can be a useful thing to have. Given that the AI scores more long shots against me than I do against it, and I only have people with very good long shot stats having long shots, I would say it is more effective than people give it credit for. It is often the reason I fail to beat the AI - because they score a long shot after being unable to create a real chance. It also goes massively wrong a lot of the time, but it is useful to have i think!

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Even better, link long shots to the player and not position.

If you have one LM with a long shots of 20, you will not want his replacement with a LS of 3 taking the same amount of shots. The same it true when you have to move players around.

It makes zero sense at all to link to position rather than player.

You could say that about a lot of individual instructions though. And it has merit.

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I too set players to no long shots. I increase the amount of through balls instead.

However, they still take long shots, and there's an obvious through-ball on. It's very frustrating.

But, there are some people that will take shots regardless, in real life. I remember only the other week when Van Der Vaart was shooting from everywhere, and Harry Redknapp was going berserk on the sidelines because of it.

To counter the amount of long shots I play a very wide game and try to get crosses in that way.

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I always leave it on the medium setting, but i do play a wide game with short passing and usually use the "work ball into box" touchline shout so i never really have a problem, there is the odd game when my strikers are being marked out the game when i struggle and waste quite a bit of possession, but thats more to do with my tactics than that instruction.

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I always leave it on the medium setting, but i do play a wide game with short passing and usually use the "work ball into box" touchline shout so i never really have a problem, there is the odd game when my strikers are being marked out the game when i struggle and waste quite a bit of possession, but thats more to do with my tactics than that instruction.

Yeah I don't have a problem with it either. My team is usually down to 10 or 20% long shots. There are instances where I feel that a long shot would be the best option but they choose to turn their backs to the goal instead (they do that a lot before the tactic is fluid), or as I said above the deep player on corners or free-kicks never shoots, and that is the one situation where blasting the ball at goal is the only correct decision in almost all circumstances. The same goes for indirect free-kicks; it is almost never shot at goal. Even worse is the way the AI wastes possession with absolutely ridiculous long shot attempts. This is most common when they are behind and push up to get a goal; it seems most default tactics push long shots to often and combined with a very attacking mentality this leads to complete mental meltdown for the opposition. I often catch myself shouting "shoot! shoot!" the British way whenever the opposition have the ball regardless of where they are on the pitch, and I am often heard :D

I don't think this can be fixed by tweaking the "sensitivity" of the Long Shots slider. It must be fixed by tweaking the Decisions programming regarding when to attempt a long shot and when not to. This means that PPMs, Decisions, Flair, Long Shots is the way to go, and thus the slider is becoming increasingly irrelevant the better that programming becomes.

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