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"Tamworth announced today that they have deposited a total of £301m into a reserve investment fund.

They believe the current financial position allows the club to make investments such as this and hope this will benefit the club in the long term."

Right, I understand the concept, but when will I see a return from this? Also, 2 seasaons or so ago, they did a similar thing and put £101m into a reserve fund, so I've got £402m in them, but how will this actually affect our finances?

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I might be wrong but I think one of the reasons this was placed in was to stop the 2 billion from positive to negative bank balance bug.

Whether or not you'll get the money back if your financial situation goes south I don't know. But based on how much they 'invested' I doubt that's an issue as your balance must be massive.

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Originally posted by Midfield_Dynamo:

Before they took the money out, just over £1bn. Maybe it's SI making sure that you can never get to the £2bn figure which makes you go bankrupt?

Certainly sounds like that. I didn't realise this had been included, nice one icon14.gif

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Originally posted by Midfield_Dynamo:

Thanks for all the replies, makes me feel all the better that for all my saving and great financial management that it's all being thrown away anyway. Does anyone know why the bug can't just be fixed anyway?

It's not a bug, it is there by design. Something to do with limits on values. I'm sure someone clever here could explain it as the thread I had about it has gone now.

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Originally posted by VonBlade:

Can't imagine they ever do anything with it. After 22 years the Spurs board have deposited over a billion into a "bug-defeating fund", yet they wont buy a new stadium.

Meh.

I totally agree, they have done that to my club aswell, have managed liverpool for 34 years now, they have expanded my stadium to 275000, and the council keep blocking further expansion, but they still wont use the fund which like you said probably has over a billion in it for a great big new stadium..... I just want a new stadium now icon_frown.gif

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Originally posted by pratik:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonBlade:

Can't imagine they ever do anything with it. After 22 years the Spurs board have deposited over a billion into a "bug-defeating fund", yet they wont buy a new stadium.

Meh.

I totally agree, they have done that to my club aswell, have managed liverpool for 34 years now, they have expanded my stadium to 275000, and the council keep blocking further expansion, but they still wont use the fund which like you said probably has over a billion in it for a great big new stadium..... I just want a new stadium now icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

275000 icon_eek.gif

Didn't realise stadia could get that big on FM.

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Originally posted by dafuge:

It's not a bug, it is there by design. Something to do with limits on values. I'm sure someone clever here could explain it as the thread I had about it has gone now.

That'll be me then...

The programming which SI use has long integers, their way of storing numbers, in C++, which means that the integer (or whole number icon_wink.gif) is in the range -2,147,483,648 to +2,147,483,648. If you get more that £2.15bn, or accumulate a debt of more than £2.15bn, then the balance will change from positive to negative or negative to positive (so that's good news for Bournemouth fans - their debt must be nearing that?)

It was an issue on previous editions that this value was reached a lot, and the club's balance would revert to -£2,147,483,647. So, in a counter, this feature has been introduced so that you'll hopefully never reach this situation.

As for pratik, 275,000 seater stadium icon_eek.gif! Did you know there is such a thing as greed icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by Hazzydeepy:

does the bug occur in fm 07 as well?

'

What bug? If you hit 2bn in FM07, your balance will revert to -2bn.

In FM08, the game doesn't let you get that far.

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Originally posted by canvey!!:

(so that's good news for Bournemouth fans - their debt must be nearing that?)

You what? Bournemouth have less debt than many premiership clubs. They just don't have the massively inflated TV incomes keeping them going every month. If only they got a £40m parachute payment when they got relegated. icon_eek.gif

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Originally posted by Nilsson:

Anyone done an experiment with another currency? I think I've had more in swedish money but I'm not sure, anyway I've never experienced this problem myself. In some currencys 2 billion isn't anywhere near 2 billion £.

I have a feeling that the game stores the values in pounds, then converts them for display purposes, so changing currency didn't make any difference.

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But that doesn't make any sense.

If the variable for balance can hold a number up to 2.1 billion then it doesn't matter which currency it's in, once the amount of data held goes over that amount, then it goes mad and flips +/-.

If it's possible to convert 2.1 billion GBP into dollars or almost any other currency (Yen lol) and store that number for display, then why don't they use the extra-large variable they store the newly converted amount in to hold the GBP value, thus fixing this irritating bug.

VB

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It's to do with how the numbers are represented in a computer. To cut a long story short, the most-significant bit determines the sign. Using two's-complement (Google/Wikipedia it), it allows for easy arithmetic manipulation for subtraction. Basically, in two's complement, 1001 is -7 rather than 8 and 0111 7. Similar to binary.

I'm guessing that SI wrote Football Manager in C++ and used the standard integer type (or long int, or whatever, they have the same range). The positive upper limit is 2,147,483,647 (does this look similar to the 2.1 billion pounds figure? icon_smile.gif), which is 2^31-1, and the lowest limit is –2,147,483,648, or -2^31.

Just taking a smaller power, let's just say Football Manager had an upper limit of $7. 7 in binary is 0111. Say I got a bit richer, $8, so I add 1 to 0111 and get 1000. As it turns out, 1000 is actually -8 in two's complement, making this a typical overflow problem in programming.

So if I'm right, if you somehow manage to make enough money to be invested (in this thread's case), and that amount exceeds 2.1 billion pounds, then, er, I think you will probably not get your money back. Assuming they used an integer for the investment as well, of course.

There are longer data types out there with a much longer range, such as __int64 which has a range of –9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, but when you're running a large program, it becomes painfully slow to compute.

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  • 1 month later...
Originally posted by x42bn6:

It's to do with how the numbers are represented in a computer. To cut a long story short, the most-significant bit determines the sign. Using two's-complement (Google/Wikipedia it), it allows for easy arithmetic manipulation for subtraction. Basically, in two's complement, 1001 is -7 rather than 8 and 0111 7. Similar to binary.

I'm guessing that SI wrote Football Manager in C++ and used the standard integer type (or long int, or whatever, they have the same range). The positive upper limit is 2,147,483,647 (does this look similar to the 2.1 billion pounds figure? icon_smile.gif), which is 2^31-1, and the lowest limit is –2,147,483,648, or -2^31.

Just taking a smaller power, let's just say Football Manager had an upper limit of $7. 7 in binary is 0111. Say I got a bit richer, $8, so I add 1 to 0111 and get 1000. As it turns out, 1000 is actually -8 in two's complement, making this a typical overflow problem in programming.

So if I'm right, if you somehow manage to make enough money to be invested (in this thread's case), and that amount exceeds 2.1 billion pounds, then, er, I think you will probably not get your money back. Assuming they used an integer for the investment as well, of course.

There are longer data types out there with a much longer range, such as __int64 which has a range of –9,223,372,036,854,775,808 to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807, but when you're running a large program, it becomes painfully slow to compute.

Well, I am sure that in the future, when computing power gets even more powerful, SI will ALLOW even bigger sums of money, for example trillions of pounds!!!!!! It is only a matter of time.......

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Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nilsson:

Anyone done an experiment with another currency? I think I've had more in swedish money but I'm not sure, anyway I've never experienced this problem myself. In some currencys 2 billion isn't anywhere near 2 billion £.

I have a feeling that the game stores the values in pounds, then converts them for display purposes, so changing currency didn't make any difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saw a guy whining about this issue in the Danish FM-forum when he reached DKK22B so this occurs whenever you get what corresponds to £2.15B.

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Originally posted by Rocknrollpear:

Is it possible to somehow do the reverse and land yourself in debts of 2.14 billion, thus making your bank balance credited by 2.14billion?

Thinking of a way but I doubt its possible.

I think it's impossible to amount such debt without going into administration and selling all your good players, raising cash that way.

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Originally posted by Neji:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hazzydeepy:

does the bug occur in fm 07 as well?

'

What bug? If you hit 2bn in FM07, your balance will revert to -2bn.

In FM08, the game doesn't let you get that far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually it does. I did a little experiment. I added 2 Billion pounds of cash PLUS sell a player for 1.5 Billion pounds to another club. Of course, I also increased the transfer funds for the other club to do this, plus raised the reputation of the player to the max And also make him dislike me. He moved and when the transfer is over, I am in the red!! But there is a message saying that the club will dip into the investment fund and extract money from there to save the club from being in debt.

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Originally posted by Blanchflower1:

Well, I am sure that in the future, when computing power gets even more powerful, SI will ALLOW even bigger sums of money, for example trillions of pounds!!!!!! It is only a matter of time.......

Not about computing power, just about the way that the programming language works.

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Originally posted by AB-forever:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocknrollpear:

Is it possible to somehow do the reverse and land yourself in debts of 2.14 billion, thus making your bank balance credited by 2.14billion?

Thinking of a way but I doubt its possible.

Not quite wat you're asking, but in my (FM05) game, AC Milan (I've never managed them) hit the £2.1B mark, and now every couple of months the pop into and out of bankrupcy due to the interest payments sending them over or back under the limit.

I think it's impossible to amount such debt without going into administration and selling all your good players, raising cash that way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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